How many units should I use in my FE7 playthrough ?

[ExaltedViolinist]

I always like doing some preparations before going further in a Fire Emblem game, especially older ones where items and money don't flow in easily and where I can't grind (I'm a casual normal player, what can I say).

I remember being told that a party fo 8 to 12 units was a realistic thing to do back when I was starting Shadow Dragon. In Sacred Stones, I believed I used about 15-16 units, but I have to thank level grinding for that.

How many units should I consider using so that my party is not gravely underleveled ? Right now I'm about to finish Lyn's chapters (second time playing, didn't make it further than chapter 13 in my first playthrough because of school), and besides the three main lords I all intend on using and Ninian/Nils that don't really count as units for only being able to dance or play, here are the units I planned on going through the Eliwood story with (can't do the Hector one 'cause I never completed the game in the first place):

- Sain
- Florina
- Serra
- Rath 
- Rebecca
- Matthew
- Canas
- Pent
x Heath
x Raven
x Oswin

The ones with x's are the ones I would like to add to my rather small party (12 units). Is it conceivable to use all 15 or should I consider swapping one or two from the set party to add the ones with the x's ?

[L9999]

Don't worry for the lack of grinding. FE7's enemies are terrible and money flows like crazy. If you want suggestions:

Swap Serra with Priscila. She may arrive worse but having a pony is good.

All the archers are bad, stay away from them.

Use Marcus. He makes the game way easier. 

Use Lowen and Isadora.

[ranger016]

Most of the FE7 chapters have a unit limit of 12 and one of the last chapters has a limit of 16 units. So it is good to train 14 - 16 units.

I personally use 12 in my core team and 8 units as back up. [in case some of the core units end up rng screwed]

Normal mode is pretty easy so, you don't really need to train them up to a really high level. And you can use any one you like, I don't think any unit is unusable especially in normal mode.

[badatfireemblem]

I usually use about 20 or so units in total. If you're using Matthew then it's best to take him mainly into chest/door opening battles as he's a weak unit. You'll want to get Florina to a Falcon Knight asap because she'll be faster with a sword. If you're using archers then I'd suggest Louise as she comes with an A support with Pent.

I generally gradually stop using units as more arrive, rather than deciding my main team straight off though.

You'll have a reasonable amount of money throughout the game, and if I remember correctly there are a few arenas where you can train/earn money.

[CogofDestiny]

Since it's Eliwood Normal Mode, you can do pretty much anything and it will turn out fine, the enemies are notably weak, grinding isn't much of a problem here and on very rare occasions if you actually are underleveled just use prepromotes. You get loads of money so don't worry about that either. I'd say use the units that you think are the best at the moment or if they are particulary helpful in some chapters (like flyers/mages in the desert level, thieves in chapters with chests/good things to steal)

I'd say swapping Matthew when he can't do thievery with someone else. I recommend building a smaller core party, using 15 units consistently means that your best units won't be at higher levels because they have to share exp with others.

Also, I think using archers isn't that good of a idea, even in normal mode (even them can be somewhat useful though, especially Rath)

I personally use about 5-8 unpromoted units for the whole game, Ninian,Matthew and/or Legault and the rest of the slots I fill them with untrained but capable units. Don't worry, 12 units isn't small, the game gives you more slots than you probably need.

[Flee Fleet!]

41 minutes ago, CogofDestiny said:

I'd say swapping Matthew when he can't do thievery with someone else. I recommend building a smaller core party, using 15 units consistently means that your best units won't be at higher levels because they have to share exp with others.

Legault should be used in place of Matthew, once he comes around, though. He has better overall stats.

[MadJak91]

I would not sweat it too much. Maybe 10-12 core units you really like. There are obviously better and worse units but I would recommend going with who you like and who works for you personally. The game has enough room for most people unless they come really late but that is nothing new.

I would pick Kent instead of Sain but I guess that is the unpopular opinion, haha. Sain is a powerhouse but I always found Kent to be more reliable. Then again, it really depends on numbers as usual.

[Flee Fleet!]

1 hour ago, MadJak91 said:

I would pick Kent instead of Sain but I guess that is the unpopular opinion, haha. Sain is a powerhouse but I always found Kent to be more reliable. Then again, it really depends on numbers as usual.

Eh, the only thing Kent ever excelled in for me was always Skill. He otherwise sucked, so I chose Lowen over him (and even Sain).

 

And yeah, I think 10-12 core units that you like or you find more useful than the others is okay. Tbh everyone in FE7 is good, usable, or at least turns out good.

[ExaltedViolinist]

Thank you all for your quick replies!

Let's see... I suppose I could get rid of one archer. Rath alone should do the job; I love how he gains swords and becomes a mounted unit after promotion. 

I also intended on promoting Matthew into an Assassin for speed and evasion (I may have a thing for these types of units ever since Gaius showed up 8[). Is that a bad idea ? I assume it would be because he couldn't open chests and doors anymore. I could keep him around for this exact purpose without leveling him up.

That makes two open spots, which I could give to Oswin and Raven. What's everyone's opinion on Heath ?

[badatfireemblem]

1 minute ago, ExaltedViolinist said:

Thank you all for your quick replies!

Let's see... I suppose I could get rid of one archer. Rath alone should do the job; I love how he gains swords and becomes a mounted unit after promotion. 

I also intended on promoting Matthew into an Assassin for speed and evasion (I may have a thing for these types of units ever since Gaius showed up 8[). Is that a bad idea ? I assume it would be because he couldn't open chests and doors anymore. I could keep him around for this exact purpose without leveling him up.

That makes two open spots, which I could give to Oswin and Raven. What's everyone's opinion on Heath ?

As far as FE7 goes there aren't any wrong units to use. I've promoted Matthew before and he turns out ok, but I found Jaffar was better. You'll have to use a Fell Contract though which is dropped by a boss I think near the end of the game.

Raven's a good choice I think, and I've definitely used him in the endgame at some point. Have you considered another magic user? (I always find that I use quite a few in the endgame but I do really like them) Erk has divided opinion, but I've always found him pretty good, as sages have the bonus of healing too.

Heath will have quite low resistance (or at least he has done on mine) but compared to Florina, he'll be a lot more powerful.

[Flee Fleet!]

7 minutes ago, ExaltedViolinist said:

I also intended on promoting Matthew into an Assassin for speed and evasion (I may have a thing for these types of units ever since Gaius showed up 8[). Is that a bad idea ? I assume it would be because he couldn't open chests and doors anymore. I could keep him around for this exact purpose without leveling him up.

You always got Legault for thievery, so I guess you could promote Matthew. You do get another assassin though, who is considered a pretty good unit.

 

10 minutes ago, ExaltedViolinist said:

That makes two open spots, which I could give to Oswin and Raven. What's everyone's opinion on Heath ?

Eh, Heath wasn't that great for me. The pegasus knights turned out better for me, with only having lesser strength than him but more Res. Still, since you got Florina already on your team, might as well take a Wyvern Knight.

As for Oswin and Raven, well, I like both, and both had really good stats in the end, with Raven having more Speed and Skill and Oswin having more Strength, Res, and Defense. So I guess it's your pick on who you like more who you find to have better stats overall.

[ranger016]

1 hour ago, ExaltedViolinist said:

Thank you all for your quick replies!

Let's see... I suppose I could get rid of one archer. Rath alone should do the job; I love how he gains swords and becomes a mounted unit after promotion. 

I also intended on promoting Matthew into an Assassin for speed and evasion (I may have a thing for these types of units ever since Gaius showed up 8[). Is that a bad idea ? I assume it would be because he couldn't open chests and doors anymore. I could keep him around for this exact purpose without leveling him up.

That makes two open spots, which I could give to Oswin and Raven. What's everyone's opinion on Heath ?

1. I personally prefer Rath over the other archers too, though Louise might be a good choice too since she already has A support with Pent.

2. Assassins can still open chests and doors, the only thing they can't do is steal. You can promote him if you don't care about stealing. The only problem is, you get Fell Contract on the same chapter Jaffar joins you, so it might not be a good idea to lose your stealing ability just when you get a better assassin than either Matthew or Legault.

3. Raven is definitely a good choice and so are Oswin and Heath. I personally use Heath and Raven in my core team. Oswin is good but his lower move keeps me away from using him in the later chapters, I usually give the boots to my thief.

For me Heath always turns out way better than both Pegasus Knights except Farina, who you can't get in Eliwood mode.

[Shadow Mir]

3 hours ago, ExaltedViolinist said:

Thank you all for your quick replies!

Let's see... I suppose I could get rid of one archer. Rath alone should do the job; I love how he gains swords and becomes a mounted unit after promotion. 

I also intended on promoting Matthew into an Assassin for speed and evasion (I may have a thing for these types of units ever since Gaius showed up 8[). Is that a bad idea ? I assume it would be because he couldn't open chests and doors anymore. I could keep him around for this exact purpose without leveling him up.

That makes two open spots, which I could give to Oswin and Raven. What's everyone's opinion on Heath ?

1. Rath isn't that bad a choice, but he comes fairly late and a bit on the underleveled side.

2. Assassins can't steal, but by the time you get the Fell Contract, which you need to promote a thief, it'd be rather late in the game (also, said item is only obtained through a side quest).

3. Heath joins pretty underleveled, so there's that to consider. Personally, I find it hard to bother with him when he has a rocky start, and the Pegasus knights likely outstrip him by the time he joins.

Edited July 25, 2017 by Levant Mir Celestia

[Interdimensional Observer]

You don't really need a thief for chest opening after Legault's joining chapter- a Secret Shop there and another in Rath's re-recruitment chapter sell 5 use Chest Keys- buy  2-3 of them (they're 1500 each) and you'll be good on the chest opening front- the few doors in the way can be opened by enemy thieves. Stealing, the desert chapter item finding and increased vision in Fog of War- yes, but chests not so much. The benefit of using Chest Keys over thieves is that it frees up a unit slot if you care about that.

[Lady Sansa]

Just solo the game with Wil.

[Tenzen12]

Yeah one archer is enough, best choice is Rath. But honestly Reifleche is best weapon for Lyn instead anyway.

Personally I never used Raven, Guy comes much sooner and by time you get crest he is often ready promote (yeah with Arena abuse) and let's be honest Swordmasters are true beast. For Axe I prefer Berserkers like Darth or Hawkey.

Sain in consistently best Cavalier for me (Lowen is not bad either though), especialy if you play Lyn hard mode before Hector one. If you do you can get him as starting Paladin even.

Serra is fine imho, having pony is great, but I believe this fragile cleric have better supports

[Shadow Mir]

17 minutes ago, Tenzen12 said:

Personally I never used Raven, Guy comes much sooner and by time you get crest he is often ready promote (yeah with Arena abuse) and let's be honest Swordmasters are true beast. For Axe I prefer Berserkers like Darth or Hawkey.

 Even though the first Hero Crest comes before the first arena? Really?? Also, Dart requires an item that's very easy to miss to promote. And I'd beg to differ on Swordmasters, too.

[Tenzen12]

Arena and crest are pretty close irc. And Guy has edge for availability, that much is fact.

 I don't really know what do you mean by easy miss, it's normal check specs of map before playing and if you somehow miss it anyway well Hawkey is not bad even for prepromoted unit. 

You can indeed beg to differ, but that's pretty much only thing you can do. Swordmasters are one best class in both FE7 and across whole franchise. Maybe actually best.

Edited July 25, 2017 by Tenzen12

[Shadow Mir]

29 minutes ago, Tenzen12 said:

Arena and crest are pretty close. I don't really know what do you mean by easy miss, it's normal check specs of map before playing and if you somehow miss it anyway well Hawkey is not bad even for prepromoted unit. 

You can indeed beg to differ, but that's pretty much only thing you can do. Swordmasters are one best class in both FE7 and across whole franchise. Maybe actually best.

Tell me you're kidding... Granted, the first arena is one chapter after you first get a Hero Crest, but it's in an optional chapter. The first mandatory chapter with an arena is well after that. As for the Ocean Seal being easy to miss, that's easy - it's in a potion of the map where you have no reason to go other than to get Hawkeye (note that this is Eliwood mode we're talking about here), and what's more, if you do miss it, you have to pay through the nose for one - and that's assuming that (1) you got the Member Card, (2) you wound up on the alternate version of Four-Fanged Offense that the game makes no attempt to hint at, and (3), you know that the secret shop is in a completely out-of-the-way location that's inaccessible to most units.

I honestly fail to see what makes Swordmasters so good because honestly, they've been falling off a cliff since FE7, where they face constant WTD. So the joke's on you, as is the burden of proof...

Edited July 25, 2017 by Levant Mir Celestia

[MadJak91]

7 hours ago, Flee Fleet! said:

Eh, the only thing Kent ever excelled in for me was always Skill. He otherwise sucked, so I chose Lowen over him (and even Sain).

Yeah. I guess my Kent usually turned out better but really, I mostly like him more as a character, haha. Not as strong but I found him more reliable at doubling as well. Sain got screwed too many times :/

Lowen is cool though. Tank on a horse.

[Tenzen12]

10 hours ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

Tell me you're kidding... Granted, the first arena is one chapter after you first get a Hero Crest, but it's in an optional chapter. The first mandatory chapter with an arena is well after that. As for the Ocean Seal being easy to miss, that's easy - it's in a potion of the map where you have no reason to go other than to get Hawkeye (note that this is Eliwood mode we're talking about here), and what's more, if you do miss it, you have to pay through the nose for one - and that's assuming that (1) you got the Member Card, (2) you wound up on the alternate version of Four-Fanged Offense that the game makes no attempt to hint at, and (3), you know that the secret shop is in a completely out-of-the-way location that's inaccessible to most units.

I honestly fail to see what makes Swordmasters so good because honestly, they've been falling off a cliff since FE7, where they face constant WTD. So the joke's on you, as is the burden of proof...

 

Again it is not normal missing content. Maybe it's acceptable for total rookie on first playthrough, but that's about it. FE are games for completionists to get all possible characters, to all items and all bonus content. Actually even when I decide use Hawkey I always still get OS anyway, because missing it is stupid mistake. That's also reason why I never had to buy it in secret shop either (though I did it sell it here few times...).

As for swormasters, we are talking about 60% crit rate with solid base strenght and almost guaranteed doubling on anyone in case of Guy, who is pretty standard for his class.That basically means it can ORKO anything that isn't final dragon in case of being unlucky enough to not OHKO. Not to mention with bith training he can be like lv.13-15 by time you reach first arena. Raven join around same chapter irc and he is like  lv.5 or so? (I don't remember exactly). WTD is not really issue either if you have balanced party. If you really need you can give him Lancebreaker, but honestly it's easier just kill early game lances with Hector. WT is something player benefit rather than opposite, 

 

[Shadow Mir]

7 hours ago, Tenzen12 said:

 

Again it is not normal missing content. Maybe it's acceptable for total rookie on first playthrough, but that's about it. FE are games for completionists to get all possible characters, to all items and all bonus content. Actually even when I decide use Hawkey I always still get OS anyway, because missing it is stupid mistake. That's also reason why I never had to buy it in secret shop either (though I did it sell it here few times...).

As for swormasters, we are talking about 60% crit rate with solid base strenght and almost guaranteed doubling on anyone in case of Guy, who is pretty standard for his class.That basically means it can ORKO anything that isn't final dragon in case of being unlucky enough to not OHKO. Not to mention with bith training he can be like lv.13-15 by time you reach first arena. Raven join around same chapter irc and he is like  lv.5 or so? (I don't remember exactly). WTD is not really issue either if you have balanced party. If you really need you can give him Lancebreaker, but honestly it's easier just kill early game lances with Hector. WT is something player benefit rather than opposite, 

 

Maybe to you, but how do you know he won't be playing this blind? Simple answer: You don't.

Except without supports (and a lot of people complain about the GBA support system these days), they can't break 60% crit without a rare weapon that comes on only two characters, one who's mutually exclusive with another unit (and happens to be inferior to the other guy) and the other being Hector mode exclusive. And sure, they can double often, but that ain't something worth bragging about when enemies in this game are honestly pathetic.  Also, I call BS on Guy being able to get to level 13 by the time Raven shows up. As for their tendency to face WTD, sure, you could use a lancereaver to get around that, but being able to "deal with a weakness" badly is worse than not having to deal that weakness at all. Not to mention the part where Lancereavers are very expensive and have very little in the way of uses. Also, having a balanced party is easier said than done when outside of Hector, who's only one unit, the other axe users you get are questionable as units.

[Tenzen12]

Of course @ExaltedViolinist will not play blindly, if he/she had such intent he/she would ask for advice here. 

Anyway I believe Rath gives crit support and killing edge is pretty much best weapon to spent money on. So yeah around 60% crit rate is accurate, yes. 

As I said before Lances are someone else problem. Hector can clear them, Oswin, Rath, Bow Lyn and many others. If you really feel like needing cover for not-really-weakness, you can slap on him Lancereaver otherwise it will just will rust in storage anyway. I don't bother with that outside of Lance heavy chapters and never had problem. Same for Hector sure it's cool he can use swords lol, but sword would just take spot that could be used for killer or silver axe. In a way you are right it's better if you don't need deal with "weakness" in first place and that's the case. Just have people do what they are best at instead trying shoehorn them into universal but mediocre units.

 

 

Edited July 26, 2017 by Tenzen12

[Chconroy]

Some endgame chapters up the available units to around 15, but most of them (to my memory) give you around 12-13 (that's including the mandatory Eliwood pick). I ended up using around 12 units consistently and I only used those units in later chapters that let me bring more in without having issues. So you could have smaller, focused team or a larger team with units on rotation. Either one works.

I also highly recommend using Raven.

[Shadow Mir]

2 hours ago, Tenzen12 said:

Of course @ExaltedViolinist will not play blindly, if he/she had such intent he/she would ask for advice here. 

Anyway I believe Rath gives crit support and killing edge is pretty much best weapon to spent money on. So yeah around 60% crit rate is accurate, yes. 

As I said before Lances are someone else problem. Hector can clear them, Oswin, Rath, Bow Lyn and many others. If you really feel like needing cover for not-really-weakness, you can slap on him Lancereaver otherwise it will just will rust in storage anyway. I don't bother with that outside of Lance heavy chapters and never had problem. Same for Hector sure it's cool he can use swords lol, but sword would just take spot that could be used for killer or silver axe. In a way you are right it's better if you don't need deal with "weakness" in first place and that's the case. Just have people do what they are best at instead trying shoehorn them into universal but mediocre units.

 

 

You don't know that the OP's gonna be keen on tethering units together to get a support, especially two units with a move gap - as I said, most people here dislike the GBA support system.

Ha. You dare talk about "universal but mediocre units" when you're defending overspecialized and mediocre units? Here's a hint: a unit's quality tends to get measured in part by how much value they have on Enemy Phase. Guess what Swordmasters tend to suffer during...?

Edited July 26, 2017 by Levant Mir Celestia