Strongest Country?

[Interdimensional Observer]

Grannvale or Begnion indeed.

 

Grannvale did succeed in occupying all but Verdane, northernmost Silesse, and the Kingdom of Thracia for over ten years. Although the only fighting that Grannvale did to win get the ability to occupy was in Issach, Miletos, and (kinda) Silesse- Agustria were done by Sigurd (who doesn't count being the hero), Arvis's betrayal helped contribute to the fall of Silesse (right?), and the conquest of the Manster District included help from Travant.

As for the old Loptyr Empire- I wish we knew more about it how exactly it governed Jugdral- that is a lot of territory. Military governors, corruption of local rulers, and tribute tours (complete with child harvests)?

 

Begnion, which has existed far longer than Grannvale, is probably the strongest country given it's long historical record of being predominant (yay world building!). Sure it's lost territories again and again over the centuries- but to be fair an empire based in Sienne is bound to have tenuous control over lands as distant as Crimea. Begnion is still the strongest by far at the start of RD, and Ashnard refused to attack in PoR in fear of its power.

Begnion probably does decline post-RD with Stefan turning what is presumably the Grann Desert into a strong independent country, and the return of Serenes to the Bird Laguz. Not to mention I could see the Flaguerre-Mugill region being ceded due to it's remote location, and that the Telgam region (the Sestohl plains?) would be lost as well (though empires like the Ottoman, and a state like modern Croatia means it might be able survive). Even so, Begnion's eventual and gradual decline would be pretty realistic and not at all a real criticism of it in PoR or RD inter-FE in terms of power.

 

Valm basically grew from nothing overnight it seems, not bad, but utter dependency on a lone strong, charismatic individual evokes images not just of Alexander the Great, but also Genghis/Chingghis Khan, and that didn't last very long.

Dolhr just sits back and watches Marth destroy it bit by bit the entire game- I loathe such passiveness in an enemy- it's soooo unrealistic. Not to mention if you check enemy army names- like 60% of the time it's Grust, not Dolhr (or other groups). Even if Graddy boy (Camus) couldn't kill Medeus, he at least had enough cannon fodder to take out all the lackies. Not to mention Michalis would possibly help- which would let Camzam V. Branstein stab right at the heart of his foe since Macedon borders Dolhr.

Grado's offense is quickly blunted by Frelia offscreen, and then Ephraim just trashes it onscreen. Though to be fair, Grado was just a pawn in the DK/Lyon's hand- its only use was to last long enough for all the Sacred Stones to get smashed/the DK resurrected.

As for Archanea under Marth's lineage and Valm under Alm's- both shouldn't be taken seriously at all. They're mythologized empires made by the heroes at the end for an overly happy ending. How does one reconcile Zofia and Rigel, or all of Archanea's many little countries? Heck I don't even get how Rigel is one country- the mountains seem to divide it in half with no easy means of traversing between the two parts, and we see nothing of Rudolf's standard Rigelian army in East Rigel- only Jedah's Duma Faithful. 

[Slumber]

1 hour ago, Køkø said:

So is everyone as clueless as I am regarding Nohr and Hoshido?

The problem with Nohr and Hoshido is that the threat each of them pose is completely determinant on which version of Fates you play.

The world building of Fates does it no favors, since as far as we really know, these are the only two countries in that world. Nohr is also supposed to be a resource barren wasteland(Like we've seen out of places Valentia and Thracia), and we really have no idea how they continue to thrive as a military force. Hoshido, meanwhile, is basically like Japan and Disneyland had a baby. Nothing ever goes wrong and it's always peaceful unless Nohr does something, and it's tough to actually picture them as being toe-to-toe with other countries in the franchise that know absolutely nothing but war and strife. There's not a whole lot of context outside of the game telling us that they have strong militaries. Which... is really difficult to portray when it's just the two of them fighting constantly. Obviously there's more there, since eventually there is a third force at play, but those guys are literally magic.

On the whole, neither actually feel like threatening/strong forces. They more feel like armies that just have REALLY strong leaders who stomp everything while the grunts do clean-up.

It's really tough to say for me on either of them compared to other countries in the franchise, honestly. It's not like in Tellius or Jugdral where we actually see what strong militaries, or cunning politicians, in those continents are capable of.

Edited July 26, 2017 by Slumber

[Punished Dayni]

So, ignoring Begnion (obligatory not touched Tellius), I'd argue it's between Grandbell and Bern.

Dolhr has the issue of essentially depending on vassals who could bring Dohlr to its knees. Rigel could have been a contender if we knew more about it and it managed to hold Sofia for a long enough period to see what they do with it and how they'd hold a secured Sofia. Archanea are a nation who manage to be unable to hold Marth off despite having plenty of time and vassals to prepare (And an emperor who saw Marth do it before). Their competence is iffy. Etruria friggin collapses on invasion in 2 maps. Beating their mining operation takes twice as many maps. Etruria sucks at combat is what I'm saying, and it doesn't help their good generals defect to the Boy quite willingly (well, their not crap ones). Grado are a pretty weak nation in practice, Ephraim leading the invasion doesn't help though. Valm is a case of story vs. gameplay, and sadly the story highly overhypes it. It's a shame, as they could be a better nation in combat too. Nohr is very vague, doesn't't seem like it should be a powerful nation though and they are claimed to be powerful in a matter similar to Valm. But details told about Nohr don't help that hold up.

Grandbell manages to get a good handle on the continent, take advantage of political chaos made by themselves and opponents, actually have a military that allows them to counter threats internally (not externally if they have holy weapons) and actually establish an empire that could have lasted. They both try to improve the state of parts of the empire (at least for a time) and are quite firm to internal treats too. My point is, it has a potential to be a stronger empire than before, and they're not weak to start either. They kinda get shot by the Loptyr cult because they both assisted in it's rise and plotted eating it from the inside to replace it. And is the reason its last emperor died. Bern unfortunately have similar issues to Archanea and Dohlr with failing to hold the motley crew off, despite their vassals. However, Bern also makes more sense as a powerful nation in the first place. We see how powerful they are in their defences even before BB, we see them march right through Ilia and Sacae in quick succession, which supports that they're able to deal with terrain and potential weaknesses quite well despite being a lopsided military. They also have resources as is, they show good discipline (for the most part (*coughNarciancough)) and at least try to limit access to the biggest threats to their main armed forces.

I'll give the edge to Grandbell.

[Køkø]

13 hours ago, Slumber said:

The problem with Nohr and Hoshido is that the threat each of them pose is completely determinant on which version of Fates you play.

The world building of Fates does it no favors, since as far as we really know, these are the only two countries in that world. Nohr is also supposed to be a resource barren wasteland(Like we've seen out of places Valentia and Thracia), and we really have no idea how they continue to thrive as a military force. Hoshido, meanwhile, is basically like Japan and Disneyland had a baby. Nothing ever goes wrong and it's always peaceful unless Nohr does something, and it's tough to actually picture them as being toe-to-toe with other countries in the franchise that know absolutely nothing but war and strife. There's not a whole lot of context outside of the game telling us that they have strong militaries. Which... is really difficult to portray when it's just the two of them fighting constantly. Obviously there's more there, since eventually there is a third force at play, but those guys are literally magic.

On the whole, neither actually feel like threatening/strong forces. They more feel like armies that just have REALLY strong leaders who stomp everything while the grunts do clean-up.

It's really tough to say for me on either of them compared to other countries in the franchise, honestly. It's not like in Tellius or Jugdral where we actually see what strong militaries, or cunning politicians, in those continents are capable of.

Thanks for your input. I wish Fates had better writing, it's really the only thing holding it back. Conquest could have been the best FE game.

[Shoblongoo]

Begnion, from the choices presented.

Real talk though--Goldoa.

[Dark Holy Elf]

Haven't played enough Judgral to weigh in there, but from the rest of the series, it's rather clearly Begnion. They're a powerful empire which has existed for centuries and completely dominate the other beorc nations, while being more than a match for the laguz. There's never any suggestion any other nation could conquer them or even come especially close.

[Arthur97]

On 7/25/2017 at 3:21 PM, LucarioGamer812 said:

Valm: Invasion attempt failed and were pushed back by an lower manned army plus lost valuable allies by letting a general march into a volcano. Then they didn't even think to use the Valentian Falchion at all whatsoever (speaking of which where is it?)

It's possible it was either lost or they have no one who can use it since Falchions tend to be rather picky about who can use them.

[Etrurian emperor]

Come to think of it Dolhr may actually be one of the weaker ones on the list. Because what exactly do they even do? From what I recall they pretty much outsource the conquest to their allies. Grust takes over Archenea, Gra betrays Altea and Macedon fails to fully take over Aurelius before Marth gets there. Gharnef and his mages aren't exactly loyal subjects either and have their own agenda. Once those three nations and Gharnef fall Marth just fights one battle within the countries borders, at at its castle and that's pretty much the end of them.

[Harvey]

Umm...I always thought that Bern is the most strongest out here considering that Zephiel ruled it....

How does Grandbell become so powerful all of a sudden?

 

[Køkø]

5 minutes ago, Harvey said:

Umm...I always thought that Bern is the most strongest out here considering that Zephiel ruled it....

How does Grandbell become so powerful all of a sudden?

 

You should play Jugdral dude. Or at least read about it.

[Harvey]

4 minutes ago, Køkø said:

You should play Jugdral dude. Or at least read about it.

I did play FE4...but I didn't remember it still being powerful after Sigurd died...

 

[Køkø]

20 minutes ago, Harvey said:

I did play FE4...but I didn't remember it still being powerful after Sigurd died...

 

They took over nearly the entire continent afterwards. Arvis and Julius are some of the strongest bosses in FE history, and Ishtar's no joke either. They had 4 other holy weapons in their possession, two belonging to Thracia. Jugdral weapons are far more powerful than Elibe's, but the latter were allegedly stronger long ago.  

 

Edited August 19, 2017 by Køkø

[Interdimensional Observer]

3 hours ago, Harvey said:

I did play FE4...but I didn't remember it still being powerful after Sigurd died...

 

The Issach Campaign led to the conquest of that country. Sigurd helped destroy Agustrian independence. Silesse was invaded (it's army smashed at Belhalla) and all but the northernmost regions conquered offscreen. The Manster District was conquered with a little help from traitors to the MD and the Kingdom of Thracia. The Miletos District also fell to Grannvalean control. Yied was their's as well. Only the Kingdom of Thracia and Verdane (which being barbarian land was unwanted) were not controlled by Grannvale, and neither could truly pose a threat to the Empire. This empire endured for fifteen years, the first ten or so being quite prosperous. It took the wonder kid of destiny Marth 2.0 (Seliph) to end this.