Scorched Grand Hero Battle: Valter, the Moonstone

[Vaximillian]

7 minutes ago, Raven said:

didn't he outright kill joshua's mother or something

She would have sent bounty hunters after him. He’s pragmatic and reasonably paranoid for a FE villain.

[The Geek]

23 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

I'm not seeing any differences in the eyes that can't be explained by Valter being insane.

If anything, I'd be calling out the shading on the hair (which is very different from the style she uses for her Heroes artwork), the everything on the ear (which is much choppier, though that can be explained by the fact that Valter's art is choppy to begin with to match his character), and the shading on the armor (which doesn't look like Marth's, Cherche's, or Titania's at all).

There are enough differences for me to be unsure, but there are enough similarities that I can't drop the possibility entirely.

On a second look, I think I have a theory as to who drew Valter.  It looks like the same artist who drew Narcian.  The eyes and linework in general seem very similar.

[Ice Dragon]

56 minutes ago, The Geek said:

On a second look, I think I have a theory as to who drew Valter.  It looks like the same artist who drew Narcian.  The eyes and linework in general seem very similar.

Yamada Koutarou (Lyn, Bride Lyn, Narcian)? I don't think it looks like his style at all.

The line thickness is completely off (Valter's is thicker and uneven, whereas all of Yamada's are thinner and cleaner). The ear and nose structure is different. The shading on the hair, skin, and armor doesn't match (Valter's doesn't blend shades much, if at all, whereas all of Yamada's blend more smoothly).

The only thing that I can match closely enough with Yamada Koutarou's style is the shading on the gold parts of the metal, and even then, Narcian's gold trim have smooth gradients whereas Valter's step up and down shades.

Edited July 29, 2017 by Ice Dragon

[Sonnua]

I tried Valter , removing one point of speed and defense out of 2 stats that may have got inflated(credits to icedragon)

43/32/30/34/19 

adding fury and the weapon

43/53/35/37/22

adding desperation and reposition

also since I'll be likely running him on flier team, I added the +6 attack and speed buff putting him on 

43/59/41/37/22

Also I might as well make use of his weapon  I can add moonbow on it. Or if no one else in flier team required it I can add a quickened pulse and bonfire. Bonfire and weapon puts the cool down to 1 and with 41 speed it is high chance to proc. Plus with one hit he is likely to come into desperation range. 

Or I can use moonbow and quickened pulse to get a 0 cool down in case of fast opponent.  

 

What do you guys think of this build? I am not old to this game, i think 2 months old  and quite mediocre 

[SatsumaFSoysoy]

1 hour ago, Sonnua said:

I tried Valter , removing one point of speed and defense out of 2 stats that may have got inflated(credits to icedragon)

43/32/30/34/19 

adding fury and the weapon

43/53/35/37/22

adding desperation and reposition

also since I'll be likely running him on flier team, I added the +6 attack and speed buff putting him on 

43/59/41/37/22

Also I might as well make use of his weapon  I can add moonbow on it. Or if no one else in flier team required it I can add a quickened pulse and bonfire. Bonfire and weapon puts the cool down to 1 and with 41 speed it is high chance to proc. Plus with one hit he is likely to come into desperation range. 

Or I can use moonbow and quickened pulse to get a 0 cool down in case of fast opponent.  

 

What do you guys think of this build? I am not old to this game, i think 2 months old  and quite mediocre 

I feel like Quickened Pulse is overkill on Moonbow, since you just need to bait someone or double to get a 1-count Special to proc. Should be easy with flier buffs. The Seal would be better off on someone else, or give Valter a different Seal.

[Sonnua]

7 minutes ago, SatsumaFSoysoy said:

I feel like Quickened Pulse is overkill on Moonbow, since you just need to bait someone or double to get a 1-count Special to proc. Should be easy with flier buffs. The Seal would be better off on someone else, or give Valter a different Seal.

Moonbow +QP was just a set I suggested for some high speed guys that can stand against Valter's first hit and not let him initiate second one. But yea it's overkill  as you said. 

Bonfire + QP  is something I tried given Valter's high defense. Valter also takes a hit in the middle thus QP is not required unless you count mages that can survive valter(ex : spring camilla)  A bonfire proc results in 18 more damage . 

Do you think a QP is required for a few mages that cam survive Valter. Or let Valter not use it? 

[SatsumaFSoysoy]

17 minutes ago, Sonnua said:

Moonbow +QP was just a set I suggested for some high speed guys that can stand against Valter's first hit and not let him initiate second one. But yea it's overkill  as you said. 

Bonfire + QP  is something I tried given Valter's high defense. Valter also takes a hit in the middle thus QP is not required unless you count mages that can survive valter(ex : spring camilla)  A bonfire proc results in 18 more damage . 

Do you think a QP is required for a few mages that cam survive Valter. Or let Valter not use it? 

I don't think there are mages both fast enough AND tanky enough to survive 59/41 offenses, even if they have triangle advantage... Maybe if they have Triangle Adept, but then it's no longer Valter's concern, since it becomes Palla's.

Edited July 30, 2017 by SatsumaFSoysoy

[Sonnua]

21 minutes ago, SatsumaFSoysoy said:

I don't think there are mages both fast enough AND tanky enough to survive 59/41 offenses, even if they have triangle advantage... Maybe if they have Triangle Adept, but then it's no longer Valter's concern, since it becomes Palla's.

I see neutral Camilla Spring being only survivor being highly used in arena.And neutral Nino with fury... So those are just some good precautions to take care of if using Valter.i guess a speed +1 might better be put than QP in this case. Thanks for your views

 

Would you prefer Cordelia over Valter? Personally I think Valter does have the advantage of his good defense  to tank but Cordelia has higher success to kill. Your thoughts? 

 

[SatsumaFSoysoy]

21 minutes ago, Sonnua said:

I see neutral Camilla Spring being only survivor being highly used in arena.And neutral Nino with fury... So those are just some good precautions to take care of if using Valter.i guess a speed +1 might better be put than QP in this case. Thanks for your views

 

Would you prefer Cordelia over Valter? Personally I think Valter does have the advantage of his good defense  to tank but Cordelia has higher success to kill. Your thoughts? 

 

Cordelia is overall better as an offensive unit probably, with her statline making her offense ridiculously forceful, but Valter seems much more flexible. He may not be as offensive, but he should still be dangerous enough, especially with quicker specials. His good Def, decent Spd and fast specials means he can function as an enemy phase unit as well, which Cordelia cannot do, and, to my understanding, is something Flier Emblem does not have much of aside from Green.

[Lushen]

Not sure if this has been pointed out but Valter is actually our first lance wyvren.  All the other wyvrens have either been mages or axes.  And we never had (and probably never will have) a Pegasus Knight axe user (they can't learn axes).  Also, we will probably never see a sword wyvren.  Seems like pegasus are going to take on lances, swords, and healers (Elincia ) and wyvrens are going to take on lances, axes, and mages.

Edited July 30, 2017 by Lushen

[Othin]

6 minutes ago, Lushen said:

Not sure if this has been pointed out but Valter is actually our first lance wyvren.  All the other wyvrens have either been mages or axes.  And we never had (and probably never will have) a Pegasus Knight axe user (they can't learn axes).  Also, we will probably never see a sword wyvren.  Seems like pegasus are going to take on lances, swords, and healers (Elincia ) and wyvrens are going to take on lances, axes, and mages.

If Ashnard and Aversa get added, that pattern will probably fall apart. Also, s!Corrin being a flying mage despite not normally using either tomes or a mount seems to indicate that with seasonal banners, anything could happen. For all we know, CYL Lyn could be an axe pegasus.

[Lushen]

8 minutes ago, Othin said:

If Ashnard and Aversa get added, that pattern will probably fall apart. Also, s!Corrin being a flying mage despite not normally using either tomes or a mount seems to indicate that with seasonal banners, anything could happen. For all we know, CYL Lyn could be an axe pegasus.

True but Camilla also had a wyvren.  And I think it just fits better.  Aggressive wyvren rirders with axes and magic while calm pegasus knights with swords and healing magic.

Good point with Ashnard.  I'm not aware of Aversa (never played her game), but Ashnard would mess up the system.  Though, technically he's not a wyvren rider....

<edit>  They could just make Ashnard an armored unit.  I think wyvren rider would be more appropriate b/c in RD he appears as just a wyvren lord, but his class in PoR is unique and he's basically a flying general whose not weak to hammers and armor killers.  Technically he is neither.

Edited July 30, 2017 by Lushen

[Book Bro]

45 minutes ago, Lushen said:

Not sure if this has been pointed out but Valter is actually our first lance wyvren.  All the other wyvrens have either been mages or axes.  And we never had (and probably never will have) a Pegasus Knight axe user (they can't learn axes).  Also, we will probably never see a sword wyvren.  Seems like pegasus are going to take on lances, swords, and healers (Elincia ) and wyvrens are going to take on lances, axes, and mages.

Oh they better not make Elincia a healer, not when she can have Amiti. A big part of her arc is the moment when she decides to take it up and fight with her soldiers. Also, I personally hope we eventually get Reina despite not particularly liking her just because she's the only canon bow flier. 

[Lushen]

16 minutes ago, Book Bro said:

Oh they better not make Elincia a healer, not when she can have Amiti. A big part of her arc is the moment when she decides to take it up and fight with her soldiers. Also, I personally hope we eventually get Reina despite not particularly liking her just because she's the only canon bow flier. 

Elincia as a healer would be infinity better than Elincia with Amiti.  With Amiti, no matter how good she is, she is still just another sword user.  She is the only unit I can think of that could pass as a healer flying unit so if you want to do a flying team, she would be the Elise/Priscilla of flying emblems.  Not to mention, during her story she may take up a sword and fight with her soldiers but she was defending the castle from the back lines with a ranged healing staff.  She's always been a healer first and attacker second.  Most of her character art gives her a staff.

Edited July 30, 2017 by Lushen

[Othin]

1 minute ago, Lushen said:

Elincia as a healer would be infinity better than Elincia with Amiti.  With Amiti, no matter how good she is, she is still just another sword user.  She is the only unit I can think of that could pass as a healer flying unit so if you want to do a flying team, she would be the Elise/Priscilla of flying emblems.  Not to mention, during her story she may take up a sword and fight with her soldiers but she was defending the castle from the back lines with a ranged healing staff first and foremost.  She's always been a healer first and attacker second.  Most of her character art gives her a staff.

On a seasonal banner, literally any unit could be a flying healer.

[Ice Dragon]

4 hours ago, Sonnua said:

I tried Valter , removing one point of speed and defense out of 2 stats that may have got inflated(credits to icedragon)

43/32/30/34/19 

adding fury and the weapon

43/53/35/37/22

adding desperation and reposition

also since I'll be likely running him on flier team, I added the +6 attack and speed buff putting him on 

43/59/41/37/22

Also I might as well make use of his weapon  I can add moonbow on it. Or if no one else in flier team required it I can add a quickened pulse and bonfire. Bonfire and weapon puts the cool down to 1 and with 41 speed it is high chance to proc. Plus with one hit he is likely to come into desperation range. 

Or I can use moonbow and quickened pulse to get a 0 cool down in case of fast opponent.  

 

What do you guys think of this build? I am not old to this game, i think 2 months old  and quite mediocre 

Quickened Pulse and Moonbow on a Killer weapon is usually unnecessary unless you really want that first hit power, in which case Death Blow would probably be a better fit for the job.

Quickened Pulse and Bonfire is the build I'm currently running on Minerva. Granted, Minerva has 45 Spd after Hone Fliers buffs, but it should still work. Bonfire at a cooldown of 1 means you're landing it on your second hit if you initiate combat or your first hit if your opponent initiates, which is reasonably flexible. Cancel Affinity would be a good choice for his B slot on an Arena defense team if you want him to annihilate the somewhat common green Triangle Adept users meant to wall Reinhardt.

Without Quickened Pulse, you can run Quick Riposte to catch the few opponents that you can't double attack normally or just run a general utility skill.

 

1 hour ago, Lushen said:

Not sure if this has been pointed out but Valter is actually our first lance wyvren.  All the other wyvrens have either been mages or axes.  And we never had (and probably never will have) a Pegasus Knight axe user (they can't learn axes).  Also, we will probably never see a sword wyvren.  Seems like pegasus are going to take on lances, swords, and healers (Elincia ) and wyvrens are going to take on lances, axes, and mages.

1 hour ago, Lushen said:

True but Camilla also had a wyvren.  And I think it just fits better.  Aggressive wyvren rirders with axes and magic while calm pegasus knights with swords and healing magic.

Good point with Ashnard.  I'm not aware of Aversa (never played her game), but Ashnard would mess up the system.  Though, technically he's not a wyvren rider....

<edit>  They could just make Ashnard an armored unit.  I think wyvren rider would be more appropriate b/c in RD he appears as just a wyvren lord, but his class in PoR is unique and he's basically a flying general whose not weak to hammers and armor killers.  Technically he is neither.

By English standards, Ashnard is a "wyvern rider". I'm not seeing how his unique class makes any difference. He has a flying movement type and sits on a flying dragon. He'll be a sword dragon knight when he's implemented.

Valter isn't quite our first "lance wyvern" since his wyvern is not the same "wyvern" used by the other dragon knights in this game. Magvel's snake wyverns are the only creatures that are called "wyverns" in Japanese (all other draconic flying mounts are called "dragons"), and their Wyvern Knight class and wyvern mount is unique within the Fire Emblem series as a whole and was locked to lances. It makes sense that Valter's weapon remains a lance whereas Narcian had his weapon retconned to an axe, which is the standard weapon of the dragon knight classes since Radiant Dawn.

Also, it's "wyvern" and not "wyvren". "Why-vern" and not "Wiv-ren".

[Zapp Branniglenn]

2 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Also, it's "wyvern" and not "wyvren". "Why-vern" and not "Wiv-ren".

Reminds me how Final Fantasy's localization used to call these creatures Y Burns.

[TheNiddo]

3 hours ago, Lushen said:

Elincia as a healer would be infinity better than Elincia with Amiti.  With Amiti, no matter how good she is, she is still just another sword user.  She is the only unit I can think of that could pass as a healer flying unit so if you want to do a flying team, she would be the Elise/Priscilla of flying emblems.  Not to mention, during her story she may take up a sword and fight with her soldiers but she was defending the castle from the back lines with a ranged healing staff.  She's always been a healer first and attacker second.  Most of her character art gives her a staff.

Healers are pretty much useless. There's a reason why you never hear of Elise/Priscilla being used in Horse Emblem outside of for the lulz.

Meanwhile, Amiti would be a legendary brave sword. In a slot on flying teams that is currently very weak (red colour in general). She took up the sword in FE9 (was never really shown doing any healing at all), instantly went to Leanne's aid with the sword as her first chapter in FE10, and consistently lead the defence of her people with sword in hand. She had one large moment in FE10 where she was trying to get peace for everyone by laying down her sword in the middle of the battlefield... and she still wasn't healing then either.

Her being able to heal is very much a secondary, background part of her class. All in game focus was on the fact she was willing to pick up the sword despite her large desire for peace across the whole continent: she was wise enough to realize that they were battles that absolutely had to be fought. It would be a very large disservice to her character to stick her with a healing staff. We're better off simply not having a flying healer. 

[Ice Dragon]

3 minutes ago, TheNiddo said:

Healers are pretty much useless. There's a reason why you never hear of Elise/Priscilla being used in Horse Emblem outside of for the lulz.

My Elise wrecked faces and saved lives (and I'm taking about Gravity, not healing) in the most recent Tempest Trials.

[Lushen]

4 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

My Elise wrecked faces and saved lives (and I'm taking about Gravity, not healing) in the most recent Tempest Trials.

My Priscilla did the same.  Wrathful staff on a cavalry team is as effective as many mages (though you give up blade tome), but they can also heal ridiculously.  

The "Healers are bad" ideology died with wrathful staff, cavalry teams, TT, and other sequential challenges.  

[TheNiddo]

2 hours ago, Lushen said:

My Priscilla did the same.  Wrathful staff on a cavalry team is as effective as many mages (though you give up blade tome), but they can also heal ridiculously.  

The "Healers are bad" ideology died with wrathful staff, cavalry teams, TT, and other sequential challenges.  

Gotta heavily disagree there.

I ran Priscilla during the first TT for a short while. She got benched within a day. And I was running a full cavalry team. They're still pretty awful, too much of a liability and still not enough damage even with Wrathful Staff. Better to kill things in one hit than to have to rely on trying to heal it up afterwards. 

They just have no place. Even with the inflated stats in some modes you are frequently 1SKing, or you can have multiple teams in one run through so you just need to reach X map and then you can go to your secondary team. You're only punished for it in TT, might as well take advantage of that fact in other modes. 

[eclipse]

10 minutes ago, TheNiddo said:

Gotta heavily disagree there.

I ran Priscilla during the first TT for a short while. She got benched within a day. And I was running a full cavalry team. They're still pretty awful, too much of a liability and still not enough damage even with Wrathful Staff. Better to kill things in one hit than to have to rely on trying to heal it up afterwards. 

They just have no place. Even with the inflated stats in some modes you are frequently 1SKing, or you can have multiple teams in one run through so you just need to reach X map and then you can go to your secondary team. You're only punished for it in TT, might as well take advantage of that fact in other modes. 

That's odd, I ran Priscilla with a cavalry team, too.  Since I didn't have three other OHKO machines, her chip damage helped to secure kills, and she made excellent mage bait.

Ahem. . .right, topic.

Valter being a lance guy makes sense.  I love his skillset, too.  He'll probably bump out Catria on the flying team, unless I miraculously figure out how to make her balanced Def/Res work in my favor.  This also means I can run a full male flying team (Subaki, Narcian, Michalis, and Valter).  It's horribly unbalanced, and I'm sure Subaki's thrilled to be on the same side as the other three, but it might work!

[GuiltyLove]

10 minutes ago, eclipse said:

He'll probably bump out Catria on the flying team,

H-how could you... ? :(((

I'll probably put him on a flier team without Catria because my plans for their roles will overlap 

[eclipse]

4 minutes ago, GuiltyLove said:

H-how could you... ? :(((

I'll probably put him on a flier team without Catria because my plans for their roles will overlap 

Catria's just. . .there.  She has solid stats, she can take a non-bow/green hit, but otherwise, she doesn't really stand out.  Darting Blow would help to fix that issue, since it would give her 40 Speed before Palla's buffs.  I'd need to see Valter's full stats before making a final decision, though.

[Sonnua]

6 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

Quickened Pulse and Moonbow on a Killer weapon is usually unnecessary unless you really want that first hit power, in which case Death Blow would probably be a better fit for the job.

Quickened Pulse and Bonfire is the build I'm currently running on Minerva. Granted, Minerva has 45 Spd after Hone Fliers buffs, but it should still work. Bonfire at a cooldown of 1 means you're landing it on your second hit if you initiate combat or your first hit if your opponent initiates, which is reasonably flexible. Cancel Affinity would be a good choice for his B slot on an Arena defense team if you want him to annihilate the somewhat common green Triangle Adept users meant to wall Reinhardt.

Without Quickened Pulse, you can run Quick Riposte to catch the few opponents that you can't double attack normally or just run a general utility skill.

 

 

If I don't use QP and attack a physical unit

I initiate :

Me attack - cool down to 1

Enemy attack - cool down to 0

I attack -  Bonfire proc 

So apart from  the fact that Valter  initiates Bonfire in first attack during enemy phase, what other benefits does QP give?