Yet another Elibe remake thread

[Protato]

I'm sure there's a million threads like these but I don't want to necropost so here goes my attempt at making a thread like this.

 

What if, say, FE made another remake, possibly on Switch, but this time for Fe6 and 7?  While I made a wishlist thread a bit ago and I'd like to expand some of my ideas to fit with the Elibe duology. 

Firstly (and I suppose this is fairly obvious), I'd like to see Fe6 and 7 on the same cart, and for 6 to be the second generation of Fe7.  Mark should still be playable I think.  Why?  Well, while he could be removed, I've asked friends about Avatar units and they seem to agree that Avatars are either good, or not a dealbreaker.  Now, I wouldn't want the plot warping itself to accommodate Mark, but actual lines, the ability to fight, and maybe the ability to support with people, would be good in my book.  He's a powerful and relevant character but in the plot, he's just another unit, and doesn't fill the role of Lyn, Hector, Eliwood, or Roy.  Mark can have a kid because eh, why not?  It's not like they'd be fighting the same war.  

 

Speaking of units, I want all units to be at least somewhat usable.  For example, Wendy's bad join time and low bases cripple her versus Barst and Borz.  What if her level was higher, for example?  And of course, Roy should get a buff to his stats all around, especially his growths.  Maybe also give him a promotion item earlier so he doesn't become useless for half the game too?

 

I can't think of many plot/setting changes I'd want to see, but I think Lyn could somehow effect Fe6.  On a related note to her, I'd give the player the option to start a new game with Lyn, Eliwood, or Hector, and also allow tutorial prompts to show up, or not.  Fe6 can be started without having played Fe7 first, but no skills/stats will be inherited for units.

 

This is all I have for no, I hope this thread sparks a lively discussion.

[Slumber]

Rebalance units in FE6. Buff enemies in FE7. Fix FE6's map designs. Make the FE7 remake a required play before FE6 remake. 

Those I think are the really, really general problems that need to be addressed. 

From there, add skills? More connections between FE7 and FE6(The fuck happened to Lyn)? More support convos in 6?

I've gone back and forth on the idea of it all being "one" game with FE7 being Gen 1 and 6 being Gen 2, but it would probably end up inserting too many new characters or retconning old ones. It's probably best if they stay separate. 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

I haven't played through FE6 in about six years, so I can't provide very accurate suggestions on how to fix that game, but 7 is fresh in my mind and has a lot it needs to work on. The biggest three for me:

First: expand on those character sub plots. FE7 is a very character driven narrative by design but too much gets dropped for no reason. Lyn implies she wants revenge on the Taliver bandits that killed her parents. But those bandits are dealt with offscreen, by Wallace of all people. And we only hear about this in their support if you ended up recruiting Wallace. This is unacceptable. Almost as bad is Raven's revenge on Ostia. Have him and Hector settle this situation onscreen, and not in just a support. It's not just Raven that suffered from this, Lucius and Priscilla's character arcs do too.

Second: Just do one mode. No more Lyn, Eliwood, and Hector modes. Keep the Lyn mode chapters with toggleable tutorials, but I wouldn't mind seeing some of these chapters go for the sake of time. After Echoes, I doubt they'd cut out entire chapters for any reason, but stuff like the chapter that introduces ballistae and reaver weapons had no bearing on the plot, and the chapter with Erk and Serra joining can just be a dialogue scene. Have Eliwood and Hector share the spotlight once the plot is really rolling. No more chapters unique to Hector's story. And give Lyn more to do while you're at it. She has about as much reason to hang around in this game as Dorcas.

Third: Fix fog of war. They'll get their opportunity for this if the Thraccia remake comes first, but FoW is a mess. Enemies are not hindered at all by it and that needs to change. Maybe let enemy thieves/assassins be unhindered or waiting within forests to ambush rather than move on enemy phase, but other enemy AI needs to randomly come out of the fog and wait beside your units, or get stopped in their tracks if they bump into you. Same conditions as the player.

Anyway, as for making them both on the same cart as a book 1 and 2, it would be a massive experience. Perhaps too daunting to develop, like if Bioware packaged Mass Effect 1 and 2 together. I want to see it happen, but I figure we could stand to lose a lot this way if it's made under the same conditions as Echoes. A little over a year of development time, not as much staff or budget, etc.

Edited July 28, 2017 by Gustavos

[Iridium]

1 hour ago, Protato said:

I'd like to see Fe6 and 7 on the same cart, and for 6 to be the second generation of Fe7.  

i want to scream but my soul has stopped working so there's nothing to get my vocal cords going

There are 44 characters in Blazing Blade and 54 characters in Binding Blade, if I am not mistaken. I believe four of these characters are in both (Marcus, Merlinus, Bartre, and Karel), which means we're looking at a baseline of 94 characters.

You want to include a generation system? That's great! One problem. The existing character connections don't lend itself to that. Specifically, the only options you have without introducing new children are as follows:

• Eliwood (Roy)
• Hector (Lilina)
• Rath (Sue)
• Nino (Lugh and Raigh)
• Rebecca (Wolt)

That's it.

• Fir is already canonically the result of Bartre and Karla; this cannot and should not be changed.
• Klein and Clarine are already canonically the result of Pent and Louise; this cannot and should not be changed.
• Igrene and Hugh are already alive during the events of the Blazing Blade, so you cannot be responsible for the events that led to their birth.

There are two ways to get around this. I'm sure you've already thought of both.

• Retcon various FE6 characters into being related to various FE7 characters. Why, after all, can Bors not be related to Oswin? Perhaps Cath is descended from Legault somehow? Perhaps Ellen joined the church after seeing her mother Priscilla drown in sin? Well, yes, this could work. But it's also dumb. It's somewhat limited in application since as many characters in FE6 as not can believably be under the age of 20 (nobody is going to believe that Dieck is 16), but even aside from that it's a pretty broad change to make to a vast group of characters
• Add in a bunch of new characters who serve the explicit purpose of being the children of popular FE7 characters. Take a look at the above numbers again. You will notice that Binding Blade already has the larger number. I would argue that Binding Blade already has just as many characters as it needs, if not too many. Introducing more characters for the sake of introducing more characters is just bloat. Do you want another Revelation? Because that's how you get another Revelation.

This is just one issue. It's not the simplest or most immediately obvious, nor is it the most complex or damning, but goddamn is it the one that bothers me the most.

Here's another fun fact: there'd be around 70 chapters between the two games. As if marathoning Fates didn't make you want to kill yourself enough. Perhaps you could remove Lyn mode since it's all filler anyway, but then you'd be removing the only remote importance Lyn has, and since she's the Official Main Character of Fire Emblem 7 that would certainly be unfortunate.

[L9999]

1 hour ago, Slumber said:

From there, add skills? More connections between FE7 and FE6(The fuck happened to Lyn)? More support convos in 6?

Yes. GBA FE is so barebones its laughable. 

[Harvey]

1 hour ago, Slumber said:

Rebalance units in FE6.

Agreed. Even if in the remake they still decide to promote Roy late in game, atleast having a lot of good units or atleast units that are good enough to protect Roy and don't require a lot of babying should be adequate enough.

1 hour ago, Slumber said:

Buff enemies in FE7

What buffness are you talking about? Because the enemies for as far as difficulty balance goes are well balanced on normal and hard modes.

1 hour ago, Slumber said:

Fix FE6's map designs

FE6 is one of the few games that has really good map design. In what manner it should be fixed as? 

1 hour ago, Slumber said:

Make the FE7 remake a required play before FE6 remake. 

You do realize that there is a good chance of having a split content like fates if that happens right? And that is something that I don't think that people can realize despite the amount of content justified for each game.

1 hour ago, Gustavos said:

First: expand on those character sub plots. FE7 is a very character driven narrative by design but too much gets dropped for no reason. Lyn implies she wants revenge on the Taliver bandits that killed her parents. But those bandits are dealt with offscreen, by Wallace of all people. And we only hear about this in their support if you ended up recruiting Wallace. This is unacceptable. Almost as bad is Raven's revenge on Ostia. Have him and Hector settle this situation onscreen, and not in just a support. It's not just Raven that suffered from this, Lucius and Priscilla's character arcs do too.

Uhh so what you're implying is that you don't want support conversations that have meaning to them? I'd rather prefer Lyn and Wallace's support over Celica and Conrad's support anytime.

But yes I do agree that Raven needs to talk to Hector atleast once.

1 hour ago, Gustavos said:

Just do one mode. No more Lyn, Eliwood, and Hector modes. Keep the Lyn mode chapters with toggleable tutorials, but I wouldn't mind seeing some of these chapters go for the sake of time. After Echoes, I doubt they'd cut out entire chapters for any reason, but stuff like the chapter that introduces ballistae and reaver weapons had no bearing on the plot,

By that logic, even FE6 added elements that were barely part of the plot such as the balllistae that appears during the Larum and Elphin's chapter.

Also, the modes help in offering variety for the game. Yes I will agree that having characters locked in Hector's mode is a flaw but since Hector's mode has new maps, having those exclusive units can make them worthwhile.

2 hours ago, Gustavos said:

Third: Fix fog of war. They'll get their opportunity for this if the Thraccia remake comes first, but FoW is a mess. Enemies are not hindered at all by it and that needs to change. Maybe let enemy thieves/assassins be unhindered or waiting within forests to ambush rather than move on enemy phase, but other enemy AI needs to randomly come out of the fog and wait beside your units, or get stopped in their tracks if they bump into you. Same conditions as the player.

Uh no. Fog of war is kinda well done as some enemies won't move from their places even if the player is close to them...

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

5 hours ago, Harvey said:

Uhh so what you're implying is that you don't want support conversations that have meaning to them? I'd rather prefer Lyn and Wallace's support over Celica and Conrad's support anytime.

Bite your tongue. As if that's what I really meant, and those examples are not comparable. Two games with two totally different approaches to supports. I propose that you put relevant characterization and sub plots into the game as canon events, not an easter egg in a support you'd maybe see on a certain path. That path being the "player is not doing very well" path. If you think there's a problem with that, tell me a reason why instead of this rubbish strawman. 

And what does locking content away to a second playthrough accomplish? You agree it's a flaw, but at least those units get some fun new chapters to fight in? Would that not be the case if you could access this content in Eliwood mode? You also say Fog of War is well done because some enemies have an unfair advantage of choosing not to attack you even when they're in range. That's precisely how you get multiple enemies piling on a weak unit, since not all enemies have the same AI script. It's an unfair system meant to cheese deaths out of the player.

[Harvey]

@Gustavos Oh sorry..my bad on that. Still, those sub plots are most likely going to require additional support conversations since this is a remake that is suppose to be faithful to the original.

 

[Slumber]

8 hours ago, Harvey said:

What buffness are you talking about? Because the enemies for as far as difficulty balance goes are well balanced on normal and hard modes.

Even the stronger enemies have paper thin defense and laughable speed in FE7.

8 hours ago, Harvey said:

FE6 is one of the few games that has really good map design. In what manner it should be fixed as?

FE6 has three types of maps:

Straight forward open maps(These become less and less common as the game goes forward)

Super windy maps with a ton of obstacles that really just slow you down

Super windy maps with a ton of traps that slow you down even more than the other kind of super windy maps

It's cool that FE6 more or less makes you have to utilize the whole map, but it's these kinds of maps that make games "Horse Emblem". You basically have to use Cavaliers and Paladins to hit most of the objectives in this game, because your 5 move units can't hope to make it to most of them on time, OR it's the only way to do these maps in any sort of reasonable time. It's really no better than FE4's wide open plains.

8 hours ago, Harvey said:

You do realize that there is a good chance of having a split content like fates if that happens right? And that is something that I don't think that people can realize despite the amount of content justified for each game.

How in the world does that mean split content? Just remake FE7 before FE6, or remake both at the same time, making FE7 come first this time.

Edited July 28, 2017 by Slumber

[Shadow Mir]

7 hours ago, Harvey said:

What buffness are you talking about? Because the enemies for as far as difficulty balance goes are well balanced on normal and hard modes.

Dude. Are you freaking serious? You don't see a problem with the fact that enemies are constantly weighed down by their weapons, and that unpromoted enemies are more common than promoted ones by far, even lategame?

[Harvey]

11 hours ago, Slumber said:

Even the stronger enemies have paper thin defense and laughable speed in FE7.

 

11 hours ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

Dude. Are you freaking serious? You don't see a problem with the fact that enemies are constantly weighed down by their weapons, and that unpromoted enemies are more common than promoted ones by far, even lategame?

I was referring to how it has a fair challenge for a casual gamer who will obviously not spend so much of time for just one damn chapter. Sure, novice gamers might see this as an issue but for FE to be around, it needs to do big and balance is something it needs to appeal to a wider audience. You don't see hard metroid games coming from Nintendo to the point that it pushed away younger gamers.

11 hours ago, Slumber said:

Straight forward open maps(These become less and less common as the game goes forward)

Super windy maps with a ton of obstacles that really just slow you down

Super windy maps with a ton of traps that slow you down even more than the other kind of super windy maps

It's cool that FE6 more or less makes you have to utilize the whole map, but it's these kinds of maps that make games "Horse Emblem". You basically have to use Cavaliers and Paladins to hit most of the objectives in this game, because your 5 move units can't hope to make it to most of them on time, OR it's the only way to do these maps in any sort of reasonable time. It's really no better than FE4's wide open plains.

But that still isn't the issue with the maps. That is the issue with the obstacles themselves as the game forces you to do a lot with so little time. 

11 hours ago, Slumber said:

How in the world does that mean split content? Just remake FE7 before FE6, or remake both at the same time, making FE7 come first this time.

Because you're saying that FE7 needs to be played first before FE6. Something that is going to give that Fates vibe like most others since many people start with Birthright and then Conquest.

The idea of having a combination of FE7 and FE6 is itself going to be a nightmare particularly  in the production points of view. Its the same reason why Fates came as separate paths instead of having all in one.

 

[Slumber]

35 minutes ago, Harvey said:

But that still isn't the issue with the maps. That is the issue with the obstacles themselves as the game forces you to do a lot with so little time. 

You JUST described what constitutes 90% percent of what actually makes a map. A map isn't just the assets and a square box. Many maps in the same game will reuse assets. Most of what makes a map is what you put inside the square box. 

What's inside the square box in FE6 really isn't fun to deal with, and, once again, heavily favors Horse Emblem strats over other styles of play. 

The time constraints don't help, but it doesn't change that even without those, mounted units still get heavy preference over unmounted units, since moving still takes a lot of time in those windy maps. I'm not saying get rid of them completely, but I am saying change maps so that it isn't virtually every single map from like, chapter 8 onward. 

35 minutes ago, Harvey said:

cause you're saying that FE7 needs to be played first before FE6. Something that is going to give that Fates vibe like most others since many people start with Birthright and then Conquest.

The idea of having a combination of FE7 and FE6 is itself going to be a nightmare particularly  in the production points of view. Its the same reason why Fates came as separate paths instead of having all in one.

... 

WHAT?! What the fuck are you talking about? 

FE6 and FE7 are two separate games, that follow a linear timeline, and follow the same story. 

How in the fuck is that anything like Birthright and Conquest, which tell two completely different "What if?" scenarios around the same story that use the same cast in different roles? What the hell does people playing Birthright before Conquest have to do with ANYTHING in this context? 

I'm saying "Make the FE7 remake playable before FE6 remake" because FE7 is the first part of the story. You get to learn about Eliwood and Hector, you get to know Marcus, you can see Rath talk about his father, you can see Bartre and Karla hit it off, you can see Canas mention his son and mother, you can see Geitz mention his little brother. All of which would pay off in FE6. In Japan, these were clearly just winks and nods to the game that came before it, since FE7 obviously wasn't really planned out when FE6 was made. When FE6 came out and Hector died, his death didn't really mean anything. Cool lords die all the time in FE. There was nothing to set Hector apart really. He was mainly just "Roy's dad's best friend." I can guarantee several scenes(Like Hector's death) and characters felt much stronger in FE6 to somebody who played FE7 first than the other way around. 

Now that FE6 and 7 have been out for a long time, and FE has reached new audiences, repeating that whole deal makes very little sense. I think it would be a much better idea to build up to the events in FE6 by going through the story of Eliwood and Hector first. Things that once were just references to FE6 as winks and nods to people who played FE6 would be proper set-up. 

So again, how in the world is simply changing the order the games are made/played in ANYTHING like Fates? 

[Harvey]

7 minutes ago, Slumber said:

WHAT?! What the fuck are you talking about? 

 

23 hours ago, Slumber said:

Make the FE7 remake a required play before FE6 remake. 

So You're saying that FE7 is supposed to be played first before FE6? Because in that case that is still a problem.

What Nintendo will do for this to work is that they will give two plots for the game. You select which plot you want to play. If you play FE6 before FE7, units will not get bonuses from those who were supposed to get married in FE7. But if you do the opposite, you get units that will have bonus stats in FE6. That's the problem here since I'm very very positive that Nintendo can't do both versions for one which will cost 60$.

Not to mention that there are several characters that are locked in Hector's story as well which development and production wise, is going to be problematic.

I don't know where this idea of merging units between FE7 and FE6 came from really. It just isn't possible and realistically speaking, its rather a waste of time and personally, I'd rather you just let players imagine their waifus and husbando's rather than giving that choice for them.

 

[Shadow Mir]

1 hour ago, Harvey said:

I was referring to how it has a fair challenge for a casual gamer who will obviously not spend so much of time for just one damn chapter. Sure, novice gamers might see this as an issue but for FE to be around, it needs to do big and balance is something it needs to appeal to a wider audience. You don't see hard metroid games coming from Nintendo to the point that it pushed away younger gamers.

Are you trying to bullshit me? Because if you are, you're failing. Miserably. It's pretty damn obvious something's wrong when even in the lategame, you're running into enemies with either no, one, or two stats in the double digits (and in the latter two cases, it's invariably the stats those classes specialize in). And exactly why do you think casual mode was introduced?

[Harvey]

15 minutes ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

Are you trying to bullshit me? Because if you are, you're failing. Miserably. It's pretty damn obvious something's wrong when even in the lategame, you're running into enemies with either no, one, or two stats in the double digits (and in the latter two cases, it's invariably the stats those classes specialize in). And exactly why do you think casual mode was introduced?

Uh..no. FE7 did not have casual mode back then so it was understandable as to why enemy units were weak. For its time, its fairly balanced game and I personally enjoyed what it had to offer.

But a remake isn't suppose to now make the game harder due to casual mode being introduced. Casual mode exists because you are playing maps that take a lot of time and that people don't have time to replay chapters if they lose even one unit. Doesn't mean that this can be compensated for those casual player having to go through harder enemies that you seem to want the other way around.

Look, I get it. You want FE7 remake to be challenging but that's exactly the reason why Hector Hard mode exists to please those who want a challenge. Don't make the game hard for those who just want to play the game on lower difficulties because that's exactly what Conquest did. I don't mind challenge here and there but I certainly mind parts that will frustrate for good reasons.

 

[Shadow Mir]

1 hour ago, Harvey said:

Uh..no. FE7 did not have casual mode back then so it was understandable as to why enemy units were weak. For its time, its fairly balanced game and I personally enjoyed what it had to offer.

But a remake isn't suppose to now make the game harder due to casual mode being introduced. Casual mode exists because you are playing maps that take a lot of time and that people don't have time to replay chapters if they lose even one unit. Doesn't mean that this can be compensated for those casual player having to go through harder enemies that you seem to want the other way around.

Look, I get it. You want FE7 remake to be challenging but that's exactly the reason why Hector Hard mode exists to please those who want a challenge. Don't make the game hard for those who just want to play the game on lower difficulties because that's exactly what Conquest did. I don't mind challenge here and there but I certainly mind parts that will frustrate for good reasons.

 

That's true that casual mode didn't exist back then, but still, it gets boring when about 60% of the map can't do much of anything to me even when I'm disadvantaged, and get one-rounded in return. Anyways, you assert that they should be trying to stay faithful to the original, but there's a fine line between being faithful and being too faithful - Shadow Dragon was the latter, and look where that got it.

[Harvey]

19 minutes ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

Shadow Dragon was the latter, and look where that got it.

Shadow Dragon did not fail because of it being too faithful to the original. It falied for the following reasons.

1. Pointless features which made the game all the more easy compared to the first game as well as adding some features that are rather questionable.

2. Ugly visuals(New Mystery looks waaaay better than this one btw).

3. Gaiden chapters that require units to die and yet to get more out of the game its essential to access them.

And even then, there's Gaiden's remake which plays too faithful but at the same time did well or is atleast doing better than SD.

 

[henrymidfields]

For Gameplay:

1. Better system for RNG-Proofing: The RNG system needs to be revamped to lessen the risk of being RNG-screwed and the game made unplayable. I probably would make Normal mode similar to how one of the Tellius games added the "average points" onto a character's stats for each level up. For Hard Mode, I would skew the game to possibly allow another dice roll for any unraised stats in the first roll upon levelling up. (Maybe not all the time, but for example, when a stat remained the same for any previous two level ups?)

2. Better difficulty setting: In addition to, or instead of enemy stat inflation, I'd make:

• stricter time limits for gaiden conditions.
• enemies carrying better weapons - what they may have Steel weapons in Normal Mode, they would have Silver, Killer, Brave and/or effective weapons in Hard or Lunatic. That way, you'd actually have to rely on everyone, instead of just Milady (Wyrmslayers/Killers), Percival (Horseslayers/Killers), Rutger (Swordslayers), and/or any other game-breaking units.

3. Better balancing and strategic diversity of units and gameplay: As noted below

• Roy: Leadership stars and rally skills should be a thing for Roy (and for certain other characters), as his role in the story is clearly of a strategist. His strength comes from his leadership and his military tactics instead of being a dumb muscle, so why not reflect that into the game? Also, his promotion definitely needs a fix, but I say either make his levels 30/10, or completely independent to his promotion.
• All cavaliers, wyvern knights, and swordmasters in general (and Milady/Percival/Rutger in particular): Enemies with the relevant effective weapons (especially Wyrmslayers - as the enemies carry none in the original game) should be more frequent (I say 1 out of 7-10 in Normal, 4-5 in Hard, and 3-4 in Lunatic, with higher ratios in later chapters.) as an actual deterrent against overly relying on said overpowered/above-average classes/units. Such weapons can also have hit rate bonuses against said classes too. Bring the hidden weapons from Fates as an another weapon-triangle-neutral weapon, with debuffing as another possible strategy.
• Make player phase oriented units viable: Lilina and Wolt could definitely do with a Concentration Skill which raises their hit rates, dodge, or attack power on player phase. Lilina (and mages in general) could also have skills giving splash damage to surrounding enemies.
• Attack Speed penalties should be easier to get around: I personally advocate for the following formula: Capacity = Constitution + Strength/n + any buff effects (Skills, medicine, or Weapon skill level). That way, characters like Thany and Sue would have more opportunities of using better weapons with less Attack Speed penalty. Weapon skills levels can also play a factor in reducing or eliminating attack speed penalty for those requiring lower skill levels, while medicine buffs can raise wielding capacity for one chapter.
• Give promotions and hidden weapons to thieves: Basically what FE8 did for promotions. Thieves and Assasins could also be the specialists for hidden weapons.
• Better balancing for Armor Knights: Bump up both base and growth defense for all armor knights. Perhaps even give bonus experience when an armor unit receives no damage. The Wary Fighter Skill should also be a thing. Perhaps also raise the base hit rates for Lances and Axes. Wendy can also do with a much higher speed/resistance growth in exchange for a slightly lower defense/attack.

4. More opportunities for shopping: Finishing certain chapters should allow you to do your shopping and supply stocktake. By storyline accounts, I would expect Roy's army to stay in, say Ostia after Chapter 8, or Aquleia after Chapter 16, for more than a couple of hours before being on the move again, so why is that not reflected in the original game? Bonus experience points at these key points (as a form of training inside the temporarily garrisoned barracks) should also be a thing.

I'll have to think of the storyline for another time.

Edited August 7, 2017 by henrymidfields

[NekoKnight]

The main points I would want to hit are tidying up the story (addressing plot holes, making more connections between games), making the FE7 gaidens more accessible/intuitive, and installing a proper support system (no 5 support limit and let characters build support points in a variety of ways).

I don't think the games should be on a single cartridge (Fates showed us what happens when they spread themselves thin) and there aren't enough loose ends to justify a 2 generation system (eugenics leads to bad supports anyway). Releasing a FE7 remake first might be best.

I'd like Mark to become playable on the condition that his role is minimal and it doesn't detract from the lords' story.

Spoiler

I'd totally be down for a game set during the Scouring tho.

 

[Protato]

Something I just realized I hadn't thought of, what Skills could the Lords all get?  Like combat skills.  Maybe Sol for Lyn, Luna for Hector, and Aether for Eliwood?  Also I'd give Mark Ignis.  Obviously, these would be rather late game skills only gained after Class Change, but I realize that while the Lord usually gets Aether, there's three Lords so that could maybe give the chance for different skills.

[Reality]

I'm not a particular fans of these two games, but after reviewing some data, I think that the "combined" remake idea has to be abandoned.

1: There are over 34- non family related unique charathers in EACH game

2: There are only around 6 actual direct descendants

3: The non royal people who appear in both games is pretty limited (Marcus, Bartre, Merlinus, Karel only in endgame lol) There are a few more in the form of NPC or non recruitable people who affect the plot.

4: Binding Blade in particular suffers from character bloat on its own.

5: I don't like using public voting data, but FE6 is a 33 hour game and FE7 is a 39 hour game. While each are shorter than modern FE games, combined they would indeed be ridiculous, even compared to Genealogy or A Fully DLC-d 3DS game.

For the record I'm with the people who think these games were too easy. It's typical to mock sacred stones for it's low enemy stats, but while it's "any charather with 14 AS can double 90% of enemies" was a thing, FE7 is pretty much the same  except bumped up to 16 AS, and even then it's not till like chapter 19 before you even need that for bosses, and like till Chapter 26 for regular enemies (of the good classes obv, there's no speedy enemy wyverns/generals).  Enemy stats should definitely be buffed for both normal and hard mode, especially if skills or whatnot are added as additional player tools. although it hurts my headcannon that enemies in Bern/Grado/Daien are so shitty because the bad guy nations are always suffering from a plauge in the FE.series The games should only be remade if they are remade separately. A combined game would have the (New) Mystery of the Emblem problems with its cast size EVEN if all of gen 1 became unplayable let alone leaving 5 of them into gen 2 (as you would expect due to lords+Marcus+Bartre) . It would have to cut chapters because both games have more than their share of filler and tutorials. It would even probbably have to make the current gaidens into regular chapters to make the story flow better. Frankly the combined idea can not work because remade FE6 and FE7 should each be made bigger on their own (tot fix lack of story in former and gameplay in latter) and any "Echoes" project would not be working with games that were "only" the size of the originals. Trying to both fix the current issues AND combine them  just pushes length into ridiculous territory, especially for what should only be a side project for Intelligent Systems.

[Slumber]

6 hours ago, Protato said:

Something I just realized I hadn't thought of, what Skills could the Lords all get?  Like combat skills.  Maybe Sol for Lyn, Luna for Hector, and Aether for Eliwood?  Also I'd give Mark Ignis.  Obviously, these would be rather late game skills only gained after Class Change, but I realize that while the Lord usually gets Aether, there's three Lords so that could maybe give the chance for different skills.

That's pretty lame skill distribution. 

A) Sol is practically worthless on Lyn, since she has trouble hurting things

B) Luna is going to be of little use on Hector for the opposite reason

C) Hector is one of the major influences on Ike, the originator of the Aether skill, so somebody else getting Ike's signature skill seems weird

D) Aether being given to Eliwood since he is the "main lord" is debatable since you can argue with either way for Hector vs. Eliwood as "main lord"

E) Sol is the signature skill of either the Cavalier or Merc lines(Depending on the game), and Luna is the signature skill of either the Cavalier or Knight line(Depending on the game). Giving Lyn and Hector, each lords, generic skills seems like they're getting the short end of the stick

Edited August 16, 2017 by Slumber

[Junkhead]

On 28/7/2017 at 5:38 AM, Iridium said:

• Perhaps Ellen joined the church after seeing her mother Priscilla drown in sin?

You're hilarious.