6-Star Units

[BrokenGrace]

So, I was reading around about the possible usage of Sacred Coins, and someone mentioned the possibility of it being used for 6* units.

Now I know chances are that Sacred Coins won't be used for 6* units. Especially since it seems a bit early, though some gacha games do eventually increase rarities. But I thought it'd be nice to speculate what that would look like.

I for one think it'd be cool if 6* units were essentially 5* units only all of the stats are boons. Essentially making nature irrelevant. Maybe +1 to all stats in addition to that just so it seems your boon gets better. I think it'd be fairly interesting that way, though that might just me salting over poorly natured units.

Edited July 30, 2017 by BrokenGrace
Better Explanation, Grammatical Corrections

[Ice Dragon]

2 minutes ago, BrokenGrace said:

So, I was reading around about the possible usage of Sacred Coins, and someone mentioned the possibility of it being used for 6* units.

Now I know chances are that Sacred Coins won't be used for 6* units. Especially since it seems a bit early though some gacha games do increase rarities. But I thought it'd be nice to speculate what that would look like.

I for one think it'd be cool if 6* units were essentially 5* units only all of the stats are boons. Essentially making nature irrelevant. I think it'd be fairly interesting that way, though that might just me salting over poorly natured units.

The rarity system as it currently exists doesn't give arbitrary stats. A unit's stats at any rarity currently in existence can be determined by its base stats and growth rates at 3-star rarity. Assuming the current pattern remains intact,

6-star units will have +1 to their second and third highest (neutral) stats relative to 5-star rarity and 1.21× growth rates relative to 3-star rarity,
7-star units will have +1 to all stats relative to 5-star rarity and 1.28× growth rates relative to 3-star rarity,
8-star units will have +2 to their second and third highest (neutral) stats and +1 to all other stats relative to 5-star rarity and 1.35× growth rates relative to 3-star rarity,
etc.

[Dark Holy Elf]

I really hope that 6* units aren't a thing (just way too much of a clear power creep) but they probably will be at some point. Turning all neutral and bane stats into boons would be a huge increase (3-4 points in all stats except the boon, double that for the bane), larger than the jump from 4* to 5* (weapons and skills notwithstanding), so I really hope it's nothing so dramatic. EDIT: The list Ice Dragon proposes is well-thought out and likely.

I also don't think boons/banes are going to go anywhere because getting the right boon is a great draw for whales, and I presume IntSys likes the money they provide.

[BrokenGrace]

1 minute ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

I really hope that 6* units aren't a thing (just way too much of a clear power creep) but they probably will be at some point. Turning all neutral and bane stats into boons would be a huge increase (3-4 points in all stats except the boon, double that for the bane), larger than the jump from 4* to 5* (weapons and skills notwithstanding), so I really hope it's nothing so dramatic. EDIT: The list Ice Dragon proposes is well-thought out and likely.

I also don't think boons/banes are going to go anywhere because getting the right boon is a great draw for whales, and I presume IntSys likes the money they provide.

Your probably right, but at the same time it might have to be something more dramatic.

Assuming that 6* units aren't achieved by Sacred Coins and instead using means we currently have either Feathers, Orbs, or perhaps even a unit SP requirement.

If it were Feathers, if the formula is followed. Each transition adds another 0 to the cost of feathers. 3*-4* (2,000 feathers), 4*-5* (20,000 feathers). Then the transition to 6* would be 200,000 feathers. Though by then feathers might be more commonplace that the cost isn't even all that unfair.

[Ice Dragon]

7 minutes ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

EDIT: The list Ice Dragon proposes is well-thought out and likely.

It's not "well thought out". That's just how rarity currently works in this game.

1-star units have -1 to all stats at level 1 relative to 3-star rarity and 0.86× growth rates relative to 3-star rarity.
2-star units have -1 to their first, fourth, and fifth highest (neutral) stats at level 1 relative to 3-star rarity and 0.93× growth rates relative to 3-star rarity.
4-star units have +1 to their second and third highest (neutral) stats at level 1 relative to 3-star rarity and 1.07× growth rates relative to 3-star rarity.
5-star units have +1 to all stats at level 1 relative to 3-star rarity and 1.14× growth rates relative to 3-star rarity.

All I did was extend this list a by a few more lines.

[Junkhead]

At first I was like "god please no" for even suggesting it, but then:

36 minutes ago, BrokenGrace said:

I for one think it'd be cool if 6* units were essentially 5* units only all of the stats are boons. Essentially making nature irrelevant. Maybe +1 to all stats in addition to that just so it seems your boon gets better. I think it'd be fairly interesting that way, though that might just me salting over poorly natured units.

okay, this could work. Like, I wouldn't be entirely surprised if they were to somewhere down the line. Not sure how to feel about it, though. Like, I want to disagree, but it's not like there aren't people who are decently far ahead to just go for it.

[BrokenGrace]

Hmm but there'd probably be something more to that. Of course all we have is the information we currently have.

But generally each increase in rarity would also unlock more skills for a particular unit. So it makes me wonder what they'd do as extra incentive to go to 6* other than a couple stat points assuming it continues the formula.

They'd have to add another tier of weapon skills or another level to passives, something... Renewal 4. ? (I can dream at least...)

Of course this is also all probably in a distant future, maybe in the 2.0 update.

Edited July 30, 2017 by BrokenGrace

[This Is A Whatever]

I don't play Heroes anymore because it got boring to me, but if they add 6 stars it's probably just gonna be for IS to make more money off of.

 

These aren't the best examples to use, but take a look at Brave Frontier and Final Fantasy Brave Exvius. When they increased their rarities on units, they held out banners for people to have a higher chance to get those units. In reality though, they were just wanting players to spend money on Gems and such so that they'd most likely not get what they wanted and spend more money until they got it. Then they come out with newer 6 stars that are stronger than the last and people spend money on that and rinse and repeat. Heroes is already kinda doing something similar to that in the terms of their banners, just not with higher rarities. Remember when Ike was released and everyone spent their money/Orbs/money on Orbs trying to grab him? Right after that they came out with a banner for Ryoma, Hector, Azura, and Takumi and then everyone went wild trying to get them too with their money unless you were F2P. 

 

Personally, how I see higher rarity systems in Heroes would just be a cash grab for IS.

Edited July 31, 2017 by This Is A Whatever

[Ice Dragon]

15 minutes ago, This Is A Whatever said:

Heroes is already kinda doing something similar to that in the terms of their banners, just not with higher rarities. Remember when Ike was released and everyone spent their money/Orbs/money on Orbs trying to grab him? Right after that they came out with a banner for Ryoma, Hector, Azura, and Takumi and then everyone went wild trying to get them too with their money unless you were F2P.

I'm going to maintain that Hero Fest was the most predictable event that no one outside of Japan would have known or remembered was going to happen (unless you were playing another Japanese mobile game on Japanese or global servers). The biggest events for a Japanese mobile game are always Christmas, Golden Week, and anniversaries.

[Infinite Dreams]

I don't ever want to see 6* units.   

I think it would be neat if the sacred coins were used for upgrading Sharena/Alfonse/Anna!  

[thecrimsonflash]

Aside from the possible retooling of a majority of the game for the sake of 6* units, I feel like 6* units may just make good stats only slightly better and bad stats significantly worse, I feel like at best there will be no difference whatsoever and at worse it could break units far beyond any of our typical complaints about reinhardt. the game is already fairly well balanced as is and I have no interest in making atk stats average in the 60s.

[shadowofchaos]

1 hour ago, This Is A Whatever said:

Remember when Ike was released and everyone spent their money/Orbs/money on Orbs trying to grab him? Right after that they came out with a banner for Ryoma, Hector, Azura, and Takumi and then everyone went wild trying to get them too with their money unless you were F2P. 

 

44 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

I'm going to maintain that Hero Fest was the most predictable event that no one outside of Japan would have known or remembered was going to happen (unless you were playing another Japanese mobile game on Japanese or global servers). The biggest events for a Japanese mobile game are always Christmas, Golden Week, and anniversaries.

Honestly do people forget this is a Japanese game?

Literally all the gacha games I play had a special golden week banner regardless of their usual banner schedule.

[Ice Dragon]

Personally, I think 6-star rarity, if it is every implemented, should be exclusive to final-boss-type characters. Characters like Mediuth, Idenn, Dheginhansea, Ashera, and Grima who would have every right to have overpowering stats.

That said, with the exception of some units that got really lucky with the rounding, the boosts to stats aren't all that overpowering. Here are some examples of 6-star stats using the rarity system currently in place:

Ryoma: 41/34/35/27/21 → 42/37/37/28/22
Xander: 44/32/24/37/17 → 45/34/26/40/18
Reinhardt: 38/32/23/27/25 → 39/34/24/28/27
Hector: 52/36/24/37/19 → 54/39/26/40/20
Bride Cordelia: 36/35/35/19/22 → 38/38/38/20/23

 

5 minutes ago, shadowofchaos said:

Honestly do people forget this is a Japanese game?

Literally all the gacha games I play had a special golden week banner regardless of their usual banner schedule.

I mean, I did actually forget Golden Week existed until we got the announcement (despite having a friend playing Tales of Asteria that likes to tell me about all the cool events and happenings going on in that game).

I have a Japanese wall calendar in my office at work, but it's almost August and I still haven't put up the new one for this year (it's still on December of last year).

Edited July 31, 2017 by Ice Dragon

[NekoKnight]

57 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

I'm going to maintain that Hero Fest was the most predictable event that no one outside of Japan would have known or remembered was going to happen (unless you were playing another Japanese mobile game on Japanese or global servers). The biggest events for a Japanese mobile game are always Christmas, Golden Week, and anniversaries.

I don't have extensive experience with Gaccha games but New Years seems like a big event (or so it was in GranBlue).

[Arcanite]

NO NO

THIS CAN'T BE HAPPENING

THE CHANCES OF THEM MAKING A 6 STAR SYSTEM COULD NOW BE SPOKEN TO LIFE AS A RESULT OF THIS THREAD

[Ice Dragon]

5 minutes ago, NekoKnight said:

I don't have extensive experience with Gaccha games but New Years seems like a big event (or so it was in GranBlue).

Same blob of holidays as Christmas, so I'm just lumping them together since Christmas comes first.

Edited July 31, 2017 by Ice Dragon

[Zapp Branniglenn]

19 minutes ago, shadowofchaos said:

Honestly do people forget this is a Japanese game?

Yeah! Did people just FORGET to be born in Japan? smdh

[shadowofchaos]

19 minutes ago, Gustavos said:

Yeah! Did people just FORGET to be born in Japan? smdh

You do know that I'm referring to practices about gacha games that people seem to forget that FE heroes subject to.

People tend to somehow think that FE heroes, a gacha game based in Japan, is somehow "above" these practices. It's expected that a game caters to its home country's audience regardless of how international it is.

Your shot at my statement seems off since the expectation is that a mobile game based on the Japanese model not being like others of that model simply because of lack of awareness feels outside of your usual shots.

My statement is being aware that there is a reason for their event. Not being immediately aware of the reason itself. Which, as you showed with your sass, involves someone being aware of Golden Week.

Edited July 31, 2017 by shadowofchaos

[BrokenGrace]

1 hour ago, Infinite Dreams said:

I think it would be neat if the sacred coins were used for upgrading Sharena/Alfonse/Anna!  

Hmm that would be neat, I also wouldn't mind if 6 star units ended up being Sharena/Alfonse/Anna exclusive to make up for their lack of merging.

1 hour ago, This Is A Whatever said:

I don't play Heroes anymore because it got boring to me, but if they add 6 stars it's probably just gonna be for IS to make more money off of...

Personally, how I see higher rarity systems in Heroes would just be a cash grab for IS.

I mean most gacha games are like this, and that's kinda the point. It's designed to make players want to spend their money. Heck I've even caved a couple of times. Of course, the game doesn't need 6* units, balance-wise it's fine how it is. However, eventually there will need to be something to "freshen" the exlerience.

Not to mention there are definitely super whales that will spend a LOT of cash to get their +10 6* units.

[Ice Dragon]

2 minutes ago, BrokenGrace said:

Not to mention there are definitely super whales that will spend a LOT of cash to get their +10 6* units.

There would be a riot among whales if they didn't implement a means of transferring merge levels when promoting to 6-star rarity considering the amount of money they'd have spent getting +10 5-star characters.

I might confer with some of my friends playing other gacha games on how their games handled implementing higher-than-5-star rarities. To my knowledge, the ability to promote any character to higher rarities is not a common feature at all.

[Zapp Branniglenn]

5 minutes ago, shadowofchaos said:

You do know that I'm referring to practices about gacha games that people seem to forget that FE heroes subject to.

People tend to somehow think that FE heroes, a gacha game based in Japan, is somehow "above" these practices. It's expected that a game caters to its home country's audience regardless of how international it is.

Your shot at my statement seems off since the expectation is that a mobile game based on the Japanese model not being like others of that model simply because of lack of awareness feels outside of your usual shots.

I've never heard somebody say "I knew gacha games did golden week stuff, but I never expected Fire Emblem to do it too...". No, I'm pretty sure everybody on this English speaking Forum was caught off guard because they a) never played a gacha game before, b) don't know what Golden week is, or c) forgot it's associated with sales and/or that it was coming at the end of April. t's not something celebrated the world over. I know I didn't expect Hero Fest, but in that livestream they flashed the date it started and I said to myself, "oh yeah, that's golden week isn't it? Makes sense". It's not something I would put on my calendar unless I lived in Japan.

Also, what are my "usual shots?. Have you been browsing peoples' post history again? Sneak!

[shadowofchaos]

5 minutes ago, Gustavos said:

I've never heard somebody say "I knew gacha games did golden week stuff, but I never expected Fire Emblem to do it too...". No, I'm pretty sure everybody on this English speaking Forum was caught off guard because they a) never played a gacha game before, b) don't know what Golden week is, or c) forgot it's associated with sales and/or that it was coming at the end of April. t's not something celebrated the world over. I know I didn't expect Hero Fest, but in that livestream they flashed the date it started and I said to myself, "oh yeah, that's golden week isn't it? Makes sense". It's not something I would put on my calendar unless I lived in Japan.

Also, what are my "usual shots?. Have you been browsing peoples' post history again? Sneak!

Getting caught off guard wasn't what my statement is condemning.

It is still complaining and attributing into pure money grubbing despite just being unaware of a legitimate reason.

[XRay]

1 minute ago, Ice Dragon said:

There would be a riot among whales if they didn't implement a means of transferring merge levels when promoting to 6-star rarity considering the amount of money they'd have spent getting +10 5-star characters.

I thought the definition of a whale is that nothing is too expensive for them to afford.

[Ice Dragon]

3 minutes ago, XRay said:

I thought the definition of a whale is that nothing is too expensive for them to afford.

Whales still don't like it when people shit on their stuff and make them buy new stuff.

[XRay]

Just now, Ice Dragon said:

Whales still don't like it when people shit on their stuff and make them buy new stuff.

Maybe we should create a new tier above whales for spenders who never complain about cost. I am not sure what is bigger than whales in the ocean though.