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If the next game had a new cultural "theme" what should it be?


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Fire Emblem loves to use Norse names, but its never done anything to actually dive into Norse culture. That could be an interesting one to see brought in, with clans and all that noise.

I also wouldnt mind seeing a more Spanish oriented concept. Good old Spain, especially if its based on Spain back when it was a big deal and had their massive fleet and all that.

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On ‎19‎/‎04‎/‎2018 at 10:37 AM, Tolvir said:

Fire Emblem loves to use Norse names, but its never done anything to actually dive into Norse culture. That could be an interesting one to see brought in, with clans and all that noise.

I also wouldnt mind seeing a more Spanish oriented concept. Good old Spain, especially if its based on Spain back when it was a big deal and had their massive fleet and all that.

No one expected the Spanish Inquisition!

But you know, that wouldn't be too bad, that or a more Caribbean theme, like pirates or something, a theme where the main character isn't royalty or a pre established lord(Ike but better).

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2 hours ago, MyBoyHector said:

No one expected the Spanish Inquisition!

But you know, that wouldn't be too bad, that or a more Caribbean theme, like pirates or something, a theme where the main character isn't royalty or a pre established lord(Ike but better).

(Ike still had his father who was one of the 4 riders and his mother with a special bloodline, so Ike doesnt really count either), but yeah thats not a bad idea. A nonlord lord would be great to see, hell, even just a "lesser noble" kind of lord would be nice.

Im a bit wary of too much of a boat theme due to how boat maps typically go, but at the same time I think it has a lot of potential. It could be really good, or really bad.

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9 minutes ago, Tolvir said:

(Ike still had his father who was one of the 4 riders and his mother with a special bloodline, so Ike doesnt really count either), but yeah thats not a bad idea. A nonlord lord would be great to see, hell, even just a "lesser noble" kind of lord would be nice.

Im a bit wary of too much of a boat theme due to how boat maps typically go, but at the same time I think it has a lot of potential. It could be really good, or really bad.

Well Greil being a former rider of Daien doesn't disqualify Ike still, Greil is still not a royal lol. I can Live with Noble, but even then, he renounced all his noble titles when he abandoned Daien and Ran off with Elena, so when Ike was born, he was born a commoner.

Boat maps well.... yeah... be wary of those lol.

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12 hours ago, ElectiveToast said:

I think the popular opinion on what the next culture should be is a tie between Nords and Arabs, so why not do a clash of Ice vs. Fire? 

Ice vs Fire, huh? Now there's a concept worth doing!

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18 hours ago, MyBoyHector said:

Well Greil being a former rider of Daien doesn't disqualify Ike still, Greil is still not a royal lol. I can Live with Noble, but even then, he renounced all his noble titles when he abandoned Daien and Ran off with Elena, so when Ike was born, he was born a commoner.

Boat maps well.... yeah... be wary of those lol.

Sure, but I do think it lowers him a bit as the "commoner" among all the lords in the series. He may be a commoner, but his father was still a legendary figure and his mother contained a special bloodline that let him wield a legendary weapon. Plus he was born into a very prominent mercenary organization. So yeah, he is still a commoner and all that, but he is hardly the come from nothing kind of lord that people have been wanting. But that's just arguing semantics at that point since he was still a commoner.

 

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Personally, I liked how fates had two kingdoms that were completely different, and I wouldn't mind if they had more kingdoms that differed. My main hope is a small kingdom based on the Aztec/Mayans. They could have a lot of ax units since they mainly used clubs in history, and could also focus on dark magic based on the sacrifices they did. Another theme that isn't talked about much would be a Polynesian style. 

As much as I like a Norse kingdom, I would see why they wouldn't make it, since the kingdoms in Heroes are based around different Nordic realms.

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On ‎2018‎-‎04‎-‎22 at 11:29 PM, Tolvir said:

(Ike still had his father who was one of the 4 riders and his mother with a special bloodline, so Ike doesnt really count either), but yeah thats not a bad idea. A nonlord lord would be great to see, hell, even just a "lesser noble" kind of lord would be nice.

Im a bit wary of too much of a boat theme due to how boat maps typically go, but at the same time I think it has a lot of potential. It could be really good, or really bad.

Ike's mother wasn't a special bloodline; she was just a priestess. What made her special was that she had strong enough balance between order and chaos that the medallion couldn't affect her. It was her character, not her bloodline.

Greil was General Gawain: Rider of Daein. Key word being was. He lost all rank and title when he fled Daein. Greil himself summed it up best, "That was my name, once. But I... (tosses Ragnell into a tree trunk) threw it away". Ike does count as a peasant, because he is a peasant. He was born a peasant, and the moment he got a title, he gave it up the moment the war ended. 

On ‎2018‎-‎04‎-‎23 at 6:11 PM, Tolvir said:

Sure, but I do think it lowers him a bit as the "commoner" among all the lords in the series. He may be a commoner, but his father was still a legendary figure and his mother contained a special bloodline that let him wield a legendary weapon. Plus he was born into a very prominent mercenary organization. So yeah, he is still a commoner and all that, but he is hardly the come from nothing kind of lord that people have been wanting. But that's just arguing semantics at that point since he was still a commoner.

No, it doesn't lower him at all. As I said, Ike's mother had no special bloodline. It's also not the reason only Ike can use Ragnell. Only Ike can use Ragnell, because Ike needed it on order to kill the Black Knight, and that was Ike's personal objective. In Radiant Dawn, only he could use it, because Sanaki gave it to him (he didn't even want the sword). And, if you're talking about the medallion, here's a nail in the coffin of the idea that it comes down to bloodline: Ike can't touch it, only Mist can, because she has that strong balance that Ike and most of the people in Tellius lack. It has nothing to do with bloodline.

Greil =/= Gawain. The only thing Greil turning out to once have been a general does, is explain why he has such a surprising level of skill, a malevolent masked knight who claims to be a former pupil, and a macguffin that the villain knows about and wants. It doesn't affect Ike at all.

"Very prominent mercenary organization" I'm honestly tempted to laugh; not at you; just at this statement. That mercenary company is a tiny ragtag group that fights bandits in northeast Crimea, for little pay. Even the old villager talks about how beneath them their current lot is considering their skill. It's not prominent at all. It only becomes in any way prominent in Radiant Dawn, and that's in reputation only: not wealth or societal class standing; reputation only. They are basically lower-class celebrities because they spearheaded Crimea's victory in the Mad King's War. That is it. Also, Ike was born the son of the mercenary company's leader, but he had to train for years before earning a spot as essentially a new recruit. He was not born into that company. 

Side note: consider for a moment that actual historical mercenary companies in the middle ages were usually middle-to-upper class and had numbers in the hundreds, if not thousands. 

"Hardly the come from nothing kind of lord that people have been wanting" What!? He's the peasant son of a mercenary leader who turns out to have been a stateless outlaw living under a new identity. If that's not born from nothing, I don't know what is. Did you want him to be born homeless? A penniless orphan living on the streets perhaps? That hasn't been done to death in modern media (sarcasm). Or did you perhaps want him to be a farm boy who lives with his uncle that dies 10 minutes into the game? Ike is even presented in the epilogue with the opportunity to basically have whatever land and titles he wants within his grasp, and he rejects it because he can't stand the idea of an upper-class life like that. If that's not a peasant hero, I don't know what is.

"he was still a commoner" somewhere where you and I actually agree. Ike was a peasant.

 

On ‎2018‎-‎04‎-‎23 at 11:17 AM, MetalAmethyst said:

Ice vs Fire, huh? Now there's a concept worth doing!

It's a bit overdone though, to be honest. Why not, I don't know, order vs chaos, or light vs darkness? Oh wait... Never mind. 

 

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4 hours ago, vanguard333 said:

Ike's mother wasn't a special bloodline; she was just a priestess. What made her special was that she had strong enough balance between order and chaos that the medallion couldn't affect her. It was her character, not her bloodline.

Greil was General Gawain: Rider of Daein. Key word being was. He lost all rank and title when he fled Daein. Greil himself summed it up best, "That was my name, once. But I... (tosses Ragnell into a tree trunk) threw it away". Ike does count as a peasant, because he is a peasant. He was born a peasant, and the moment he got a title, he gave it up the moment the war ended. 

No, it doesn't lower him at all. As I said, Ike's mother had no special bloodline. It's also not the reason only Ike can use Ragnell. Only Ike can use Ragnell, because Ike needed it on order to kill the Black Knight, and that was Ike's personal objective. In Radiant Dawn, only he could use it, because Sanaki gave it to him (he didn't even want the sword). And, if you're talking about the medallion, here's a nail in the coffin of the idea that it comes down to bloodline: Ike can't touch it, only Mist can, because she has that strong balance that Ike and most of the people in Tellius lack. It has nothing to do with bloodline.

Greil =/= Gawain. The only thing Greil turning out to once have been a general does, is explain why he has such a surprising level of skill, a malevolent masked knight who claims to be a former pupil, and a macguffin that the villain knows about and wants. It doesn't affect Ike at all.

"Very prominent mercenary organization" I'm honestly tempted to laugh; not at you; just at this statement. That mercenary company is a tiny ragtag group that fights bandits in northeast Crimea, for little pay. Even the old villager talks about how beneath them their current lot is considering their skill. It's not prominent at all. It only becomes in any way prominent in Radiant Dawn, and that's in reputation only: not wealth or societal class standing; reputation only. They are basically lower-class celebrities because they spearheaded Crimea's victory in the Mad King's War. That is it. Also, Ike was born the son of the mercenary company's leader, but he had to train for years before earning a spot as essentially a new recruit. He was not born into that company. 

Side note: consider for a moment that actual historical mercenary companies in the middle ages were usually middle-to-upper class and had numbers in the hundreds, if not thousands. 

"Hardly the come from nothing kind of lord that people have been wanting" What!? He's the peasant son of a mercenary leader who turns out to have been a stateless outlaw living under a new identity. If that's not born from nothing, I don't know what is. Did you want him to be born homeless? A penniless orphan living on the streets perhaps? That hasn't been done to death in modern media (sarcasm). Or did you perhaps want him to be a farm boy who lives with his uncle that dies 10 minutes into the game? Ike is even presented in the epilogue with the opportunity to basically have whatever land and titles he wants within his grasp, and he rejects it because he can't stand the idea of an upper-class life like that. If that's not a peasant hero, I don't know what is.

"he was still a commoner" somewhere where you and I actually agree. Ike was a peasant.

 

It's a bit overdone though, to be honest. Why not, I don't know, order vs chaos, or light vs darkness? Oh wait... Never mind. 

 

You know, if we are going to bring in some history, then why dont we really go into what Ike's status truly is. And by the way, its far above that of a commoner.

To start off, lets completely forget Greil even had a past. Lets just throw all that out the window for the sake of this.

Greil owns a band of mercenaries. Skilled ones at that. Greil owns a small bit of land. On this bit of land, he has a Fortress. A small one, but still a Fortress. He has enough funds to keep the Fortress stocked of weapons, of which were not cheap, and plentiful food. The largest, most key aspect here, being that Greil owned a Fortress. Peasants do not own Fortresses. Commoners, do not own land, especially not one that has a fortress on it. And even if Greil bought the land and had the fortress built, that was a lot of money he used to do it. And getting further into the details of it, even if Elincia's father gave Greil that land, that still shows that Greil was considered above the average commoner, because land was not granted to commoners like that.

Now to look into how the Greil Mercenaries were renowned enough to take jobs entirely for free. Here is a line from Titania in FEH just to show that " Our mercenary group has an unusual reputation. We're known to do jobs without payment. And we sometimes take a job only to help save people. But we never do it solely for the money." That means Greil's little organization of Mercenaries is well off enough to not have to take jobs for money, and just do it entirely for free. That is a big deal, putting your people's lives on the line for no money like that. And to be able to still run the keep without an issue and keep equipment well stocked while pulling stuff like that? I would say Greil is at least sitting on a decent reserve of cash.

This means that not a single point is Ike ever struggling like a Commoner would. Hell, he doesnt even have to interact with Commoners all that much if he is living in a Fortress with his Father and his merry band of mercenaries. The Fortress has everything they need. Hell, Alm is even more of a Peasant Hero than Ike is. At least Alm lived in a small, nondescript farming village in Southern Zofia that was starving and had little to no wealth at all. Teaching the local village kids how to fight and taking care of a farm with his Grandfather. That is more than Ike ever had to do, thats for sure.

And that is without even getting into how Greil's status effects Ike's story. Hell, from what we have established the story hasnt even started yet.

The Black Knight was after Gawain the General, the Master Swordsman, his trainer. Not Greil the leader of the local mercenary heroes, and for all intents and purposes the local lord of that region, because lets face it, Greil practically was when he owned a small fortress, employed knights, and had enough funds to protect some local areas entirely for free. Thats what a Lord does.

So the Black Knight hunts down Gawain and kills him. Which was entirely his mission, literally 0 to do with Elincia. Which sets Ike on the path to hunting down the Black Knight and wanting to enact vengeance upon him for killing his father.

So Ike's largest story to his character, his entire motivation, is set in place because of his Father's status. Because without that status, The Black Knight wouldnt have cared.

So tell me again. How is Ike the Peasant Hero of Fire Emblem?

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On ‎2018‎-‎04‎-‎30 at 1:28 AM, Tolvir said:

You know, if we are going to bring in some history, then why dont we really go into what Ike's status truly is. And by the way, its far above that of a commoner.

To start off, lets completely forget Greil even had a past. Lets just throw all that out the window for the sake of this.

Greil owns a band of mercenaries. Skilled ones at that. Greil owns a small bit of land. On this bit of land, he has a Fortress. A small one, but still a Fortress. He has enough funds to keep the Fortress stocked of weapons, of which were not cheap, and plentiful food. The largest, most key aspect here, being that Greil owned a Fortress. Peasants do not own Fortresses. Commoners, do not own land, especially not one that has a fortress on it. And even if Greil bought the land and had the fortress built, that was a lot of money he used to do it. And getting further into the details of it, even if Elincia's father gave Greil that land, that still shows that Greil was considered above the average commoner, because land was not granted to commoners like that.

Now to look into how the Greil Mercenaries were renowned enough to take jobs entirely for free. Here is a line from Titania in FEH just to show that " Our mercenary group has an unusual reputation. We're known to do jobs without payment. And we sometimes take a job only to help save people. But we never do it solely for the money." That means Greil's little organization of Mercenaries is well off enough to not have to take jobs for money, and just do it entirely for free. That is a big deal, putting your people's lives on the line for no money like that. And to be able to still run the keep without an issue and keep equipment well stocked while pulling stuff like that? I would say Greil is at least sitting on a decent reserve of cash.

This means that not a single point is Ike ever struggling like a Commoner would. Hell, he doesnt even have to interact with Commoners all that much if he is living in a Fortress with his Father and his merry band of mercenaries. The Fortress has everything they need. Hell, Alm is even more of a Peasant Hero than Ike is. At least Alm lived in a small, nondescript farming village in Southern Zofia that was starving and had little to no wealth at all. Teaching the local village kids how to fight and taking care of a farm with his Grandfather. That is more than Ike ever had to do, thats for sure.

And that is without even getting into how Greil's status effects Ike's story. Hell, from what we have established the story hasnt even started yet.

The Black Knight was after Gawain the General, the Master Swordsman, his trainer. Not Greil the leader of the local mercenary heroes, and for all intents and purposes the local lord of that region, because lets face it, Greil practically was when he owned a small fortress, employed knights, and had enough funds to protect some local areas entirely for free. Thats what a Lord does.

So the Black Knight hunts down Gawain and kills him. Which was entirely his mission, literally 0 to do with Elincia. Which sets Ike on the path to hunting down the Black Knight and wanting to enact vengeance upon him for killing his father.

So Ike's largest story to his character, his entire motivation, is set in place because of his Father's status. Because without that status, The Black Knight wouldnt have cared.

So tell me again. How is Ike the Peasant Hero of Fire Emblem?

So; let me get this straight; your arguments for Ike not being a peasant are: 1) the mercenary group owns a building, 2) a line from FE Heroes about sometimes taking jobs for free, and 3) The Black Knight's vendetta, all while not acknowledging or addressing any of the points I brought up. I am going to go over each of your arguments individually, but this is already beginning to stink of cherrypicking. See each spoiler for each section, as these responses, admittedly, are long.

Spoiler

1) Just because you have a building, does not mean you own the land. Peasants own buildings, but they do not own the land on which that building sits. There is no indication whatsoever that the Greil Mercenaries own the land. And, if they did have any land or title, that fortress would not even be called a fortress; it would be a castle by definition. Peasants don't own land, but they do own houses, and their mercenary fortress is their house.

Also, what makes you think they were well-off financially? Assuming you are correct about a surplus of weapons and food, those are the first two expenses one would consider for a mercenary company: they're essential! You wouldn't say, "Oh, this blacksmith must be a millionaire; he has a small house with a forge, half a pantry of food, and lots of blacksmithing tools." Besides, There's a fair bit of evidence to the contrary. When Ike gets the Regal Sword, it's explicitly referred to as his first sword that wasn't a hand-me-down. The horses Titania and Oscar use are from their days as Crimean Royal Knights, and it's explicitly mentioned that being part of the Greil Mercenaries pays far less than the royal knights. In chapter 3, they take more jobs than they can handle; presumably to help pay the bills. That doesn't sound like they're very well-off financially, now does it?

 

Spoiler

2) A line from FE Heroes about how sometimes they do jobs for free. Wow. I'm convinced. No; no I'm not. For one thing, that line could be referring to them pre-Path of Radiance or Post-Path of Radiance. In the actual game Path of Radiance, they get payment for the jobs they do, and, as I said above, there is some evidence to indicate that they are in a tight financial situation. Furthermore, that line does not indicate wealth: it indicates altruism. That line says that they have a reputation for sometimes taking jobs for free, and clarifies it by saying that sometimes they do a job solely to help people, and then reaffirms that they don't do any job just for the money. You can be poor and still help people for free! That's not being wealthy; that's just being kind to people who can't pay! ...Are you a Neoliberal, by any chance? With your amount of "They're sometimes helping people; they must be wealthy", it certainly sounds like it. 

"At no point is Ike ever struggling like a commoner would" This is wrong. Ike struggles as much as any apprentice to a lower-middle class profession, because that's what he is at the start of the game. Chapters 1 and 3 are literally, "The mercenaries have been hired to tackle two jobs at once to pay the bills; these jobs being clearing away pirates and bandits for not much in the way of payment; hence why they do multiple jobs at once." Also, throughout the game, Ike is treated as a peasant by nobility (more on that later). So yes; Ike does struggle as a peasant would: he has to do a lot of hard jobs to help make sure there's enough food on the table. 

What kind of interaction with commoners do you expect Ike to have to do beyond purchasing food/weapons and getting hired? They're mercenaries. "The fortress has everything they need" By that, do you mean food and shelter? Because you can have that and be a peasant. Shelter just comes with it being a building. Food comes from purchasing it with the money obtained from doing mercenary work!

"Alm is more of a peasant hero than Ike" Once again; I'm tempted to laugh. I'm going to tackle this separately, but I will say that being in a village does not automatically make Alm more of a peasant. Farmer and Mercenary are just two different professions. It is not more than Ike ever had to do: both work long hours to get enough food on their plate.

 

Spoiler

3) What does the Black Knight have to do with Ike being a peasant? Also, you seem to be ignoring the fact that I already mentioned the Black Knight. In any case, allow me to essentially repeat myself, but with more clarity. The Black Knight may have been after Gawain, but what he found was a different man than the man he sought. As I said before, they themselves summed it up best: 

Black Knight: I’ve been waiting for this for a long time. I would prefer it if you used your proper weapon, so that I might see you at your full strength… General Gawain, Rider of Daein.

Greil: That was my name once, but I threw it away. The only weapon I need, is right here.

Greil used to be Gawain, but he is not Gawain anymore, and he ceased to be Gawain before Ike was ever even born. The Black Knight's mission being his own "kill his former teacher" mission and having nothing to do with Elincia, does nothing to change the fact that Ike is a peasant. I honestly don't see where you're trying to go with this. 

"So Ike's largest story to his character, his entire motivation, is set in place because of his Father's status. Because without that status, The Black Knight wouldn't have cared." Oh, now I see what you were building up to. Yeah; that's wrong. The Black Knight's drive has nothing to do with who Gawain was as a nobleman, but who Gawain was as the Black Knight's teacher. Also, you're wrong about this being Ike's entire motivation: Ike's main motivation throughout both games is his desire to help people. The Black Knight arc is another personal character arc. It's set in place not because of his father's former status, but because Gawain taught the Black Knight how to fight. Note that, in the confrontation sequence between Greil and the Black Knight, far more emphasis is placed on Greil having been the Black Knight's teacher:

Greil: You think you can defeat me? The man who taught you how to fight? What a fool.

And then, after the Black Knight kills Greil too easily (after the cutscene ends):

Black Knight: “…Unbelievable. Is this truly what has become of my teacher?”

The entire Black Knight arc is set in place because Greil was once the Black Knight's teacher, and now the Black Knight is taking advantage of his missiom (the mission being the one Lehran gave him to get the medallion and bring it to Ashnard) to finally prove to himself that he has surpassed his former master. This has nothing to do with Gawain the noble; it has everything to do with Gawain the Swordmaster (he probably was of the hero class though; maybe even vanguard; to clarify, this is just a joke). How at all is this related to Gawain's former status? He could've been rewritten as a legendary peasant sell-sword who rose through the ranks and became the first peasant Rider of Daein, and this particular arc would have been exactly the same!

Finally, some things I want to add.

Spoiler

It doesn't matter if Ike and Greil seem a little too middle-class for you: look at the story; look at the dialogue. Everyone treats them like peasants, and, furthermore, even more stigma is done towards them due to being mercenaries, and it shows for both. You might immediately be thinking of the Begnion Senators, and yes, they are a glaring example that illustrates my point, but they are actually far from the only case of this. There are numerous examples I could bring up, but I'll give just a few:

Ike: “Sorry to tell you this, but the princess isn’t here. She’s been in Gallia for quite some time now.”

Petrine: “What…nonsense is that? Do you expect me to believe you? There’s no way mercenary scum like you could get past my troops!”

(and later, when she sees Greil)

Petrine: "So you’re the commander, eh? Hmph! And I was waiting for some great hero. You’re just another sellsword.”

And Petrine is far from the only example of this kind of classism; even allies exhibit this.

Oscar: It was a pleasure meeting you, milady.
Tanith: Hm… Such a well-mannered young man. I always thought mercenaries were rude, crude, and vulgar men… Ike certainly has some fine lads under his command.

Oscar: That certainly sounds nice.
Kieran: It’s better than the life of a mercenary, cavorting with outlaws and entering battles from which you never return! Why, Oscar? Why!? I just don’t get it!

And now, back to the Begnion example that I said aside. Now, bear in mind that, while this conversation is lifted from a part where Empress Sanaki is messing with the heroes for her own amusement, there is every indication that comments like these would be in no way out of place in Begnion:

Ike
I have no doubt that Princess Elincia is the true heir to the throne of Crimea.

Sanaki
Oh, really? And tell me, what gives you this strength of conviction? If we believe her story, this woman has not engaged with the outside world
since the day she was born. So how is it that you, a lowly mercenary, dare to assert her authenticity?

Ike
The Daein army pursues her with bloody-minded determination. At every turn, they demand that we turn Princess Elincia over to them. What further proof do you need?

Sanaki
Hmm... If someone of...proper standing made that pronouncement, I would accept it as irrefutable proof. But you... You're a commoner. You have no surname, no documented lineage...You have nothing. I know commoners. They are poor. For a price, they will support any lie, no matter how outlandish.

ke
...

Sanaki
Oh! Now, I suppose you will tell me you are the son of some noble house? No, of course not. But wait, perhaps you're a royal knight of Crimea?

Ike
I am neither a noble nor a knight. I have no connection with the palace whatsoever. And no matter how much gold I stood to gain, I would not betray my convictions. Elincia has paid us, yes, but nothing more than the standard fee to purchase our services as her escort. Nothing more. We have come this far only because we believe Elincia to be a woman of integrity. We would not sell our swords to a liar. I don't care how high and mighty you might be. I will not stand here and let you mock the bond of trust that ties us to Elincia.

 

Not only is he treated as a commoner and told he's a commoner, he himself says he's a commoner. Not only that, but, if none of what Sanaki said is classist, then I don't know what is! And of course, after Ike makes his not unjustified outburst:

Ike
Elincia's homeland is lost to her! Her family has been hunted down and killed by the monsters of Daein! And with nowhere else to turn, she endures mortal danger and terrible heartbreak to reach your door. And then you...you laugh at her?! Where is the humor in that? Where is your decency? You're horrible! You are all horrid people! You disgust me beyond words! And you owe Elincia a proper apology.

Elincia
My... My lord Ike, please--

Lekain
Wretched peasant! You loose that treasonous tongue once more, and--

And how about what Soren has to say after the fact:

Soren
Ike... This may not be much of an answer, but letting madness rule the day is the prerogative of nobility. The beorc divide themselves into classes. And with classes come prejudice. From the moment of our birth to our final dying gasp, we commoners know we are not allowed to defy the upper classes.

Or how about the fact that afterwards, a maid of Begnion Palace in a base conversation mistakes Ike for a servant. Or, much later, in order to be given command of any Begnion troops, Ike has to be given a title of nobility:

Sanaki
You're as impudent and impatient as ever. Heed me, Ike. If you are to help lead the Crimean Liberation Army, you must be given a more appropriate title.

Ike
If you're talking about making me a noble, I'll decline, thanks. That's not my kind of thing.

Sanaki
You are not in a position to refuse. Giving some nameless mercenary control of Begnion's troops would be...problematic. And more importantly, it would affect the troops. You will resign yourself to this and receive peerage from Princess Elincia.

I could flood this with examples, but hopefully you get the point. They are treated like peasants, and, in some cases, they are treated even worse for being mercenaries, and Ike certainly considers himself a peasant.

Not only that, but everything Ike achieves, Ike achieves despite his class, not because of it. In the few cases where people say that there's anything special about him, they're referring either to his views on racial equality, or his charisma. He wins the trust and respect of many not for status, but for basically being a paragon (a hero that inspires people). 

Contrast this with Alm in SoV (I told you I would get back to that). Almost everyone tells Alm that there's something special about him; how he always seemed superior. It becomes clear by the end that they're unknowingly referring to the fact that Alm is Rigelian royalty. Alm is also a hidden prince; let's get that out of the way, and becomes king at the end, whereas Ike refuses all titles and goes back to being a mercenary. Furthermore, Alm is appointed head of the Deliverance not because of skill at leadership or because he's been going through the process of succeeding Clive, but because he's supposedly Mycen's Grandson. Clive wanted Mycen because Mycen was an experienced knight of Zofia. He chose Alm as, in his mind, the next best thing: a grandson of Mycen that the soldiers could rally behind because of Mycen. He literally appointed Alm because of Alm's assumed heritage. Fernand being a bigot does not count, as everyone looks at him as if he grew three heads. Alm can use the royal sword because of his Rigelian royal blood; he's able to get into the chamber containing the Falchion because of his brand, need I go on? They tried to tell a story of royal vs commoner not mattering, but it was repeatedly undercut at every turn by Alm getting things because of either his adoptive heritage or his blood heritage. All Ike ever got from blood heritage was being born into the lower-middle class and being good with a sword, and again; rewrite Gawain as having rose through the ranks and it would be the exact same, because how Greil got his skills is irrelevant to how Ike did. 

It's quite telling that, when characters in FE say, "There's something about [Ike]" that they're referring to his charisma. Whereas, when characters in SoV say the same about Alm, they're (often unknowingly) referring to him being Rigelian Royalty. 

 

Ultimately, it is easy to see how Ike is "The Peasant Hero of Fire Emblem" as you put it: he was born a commoner, raised a commoner, went through all the struggles of getting food on the table and being looked down on by nobility that a commoner goes through, he achieved everything he did despite being a commoner, he won over many not through title or status, but through charisma and inspiration, and he rejects being a permanent member of the upper class when the opportunity presents itself. 

 

But, in any case, to bring this back to the topic of cultural themes, what if one place in the continent is a republic after the royalty that ruled it were killed in a revolt? It could be kind of a mix of French Revolution and Roman Republic, and the story could involve the republic's process from a republic into an empire, like what happened with both the Roman Republic and post-Revolution France.

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On 19-4-2018 at 2:37 AM, Tolvir said:

Fire Emblem loves to use Norse names, but its never done anything to actually dive into Norse culture. That could be an interesting one to see brought in, with clans and all that noise.

I also wouldnt mind seeing a more Spanish oriented concept. Good old Spain, especially if its based on Spain back when it was a big deal and had their massive fleet and all that.

I think Reconquista Spain might work brilliantly. It would allow for both a standard medieval kingdom with a Spanish flair and an Arabian nights kingdom based on the Muslim kingdoms of Spain. This would remove the big drawback from an Arabian nights setting which is that there would be a lot of deserts. If they base their new continent on Medieval Spain they can have Arabian night kingdoms without that pesky desert making gameplay tedious for everyone. 

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27 minutes ago, Etrurian emperor said:

I think Reconquista Spain might work brilliantly. It would allow for both a standard medieval kingdom with a Spanish flair and an Arabian nights kingdom based on the Muslim kingdoms of Spain. This would remove the big drawback from an Arabian nights setting which is that there would be a lot of deserts. If they base their new continent on Medieval Spain they can have Arabian night kingdoms without that pesky desert making gameplay tedious for everyone. 

Yeah that wouldnt be bad. Getting away from the desert based setting would be a good idea since those have been....less than stellar throughout the series.

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 5/1/2018 at 11:40 AM, Etrurian emperor said:

I think Reconquista Spain might work brilliantly. It would allow for both a standard medieval kingdom with a Spanish flair and an Arabian nights kingdom based on the Muslim kingdoms of Spain. This would remove the big drawback from an Arabian nights setting which is that there would be a lot of deserts. If they base their new continent on Medieval Spain they can have Arabian night kingdoms without that pesky desert making gameplay tedious for everyone. 

Not to mention Reconquista Spain/Al-Andalus is the setting of La Chanson de Roland and El Cid, two of Europe's great Medieval stories, the former already referenced through Elibe. There is some literary myth to draw on, and the history of Spain in this long period is itself filled with dynamism, intrigue, and other fun things.

I'd like a fantasy Alhambra.

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A Chinese theme would be amazing, the warring states period is like the most perfect era to base a FE game on, i can just imagine the cool design with traditional chinese costumes, and mixing music with traditional instruments.

 

Arabic, or Roman themes would be amazing too.

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For a main theme, maybe Egyptian? They've definitely had Egyptian themes in the games, but not as a main theme. Realistically I want medieval still, it's my favorite and a big reason I play the games. Dark Fantasy could be a cool approach, Fates kind of did that with Nohr. But I'd like to see it taken further like a Berserk or Dark Souls kind of world.

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Industrial semi-steampunk setting with the protagonist’s country based loosely on America. Less emphasis on supernaturalism, and more emphasis on politics and class warfare. Magic is replaced by technology, and bows with some sort of gun. (I’ll get on that later if people are interested.) My suggested setting would be a politically torn Republic on the brink of a civil war, caused by a division between two economical groups - the Urbanites who live in large metropolises and work industrial factory line jobs for relatively decent wages, and the Ruralites who live in countryside hamlets and work agricultural occupations for subsistence. 

 

The Urbanites view themselves as the “true” workers of society, and look down upon the Ruralites as country bumpkins. The Ruralites view themselves as the cornerstone of of the economy,, and look down upon the Urbanites as privileged snobs with bad attitudes. The Urbanites blame the corporate sphere for thier woes as they believe the greedy few have enslaved the economy with the wage factory system, and stand for the abolishment of Capitalism and the institution of “Community-run” economies. The Ruralites blame thier woes on the government and thier strict economic policies. They believe in the preservation and expansion of Capitalism and oppose the Urbanite’s socialism. 

 

What do you guys think so far? 

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 5/27/2018 at 4:04 PM, ElectiveToast said:

Industrial semi-steampunk setting with the protagonist’s country based loosely on America. Less emphasis on supernaturalism, and more emphasis on politics and class warfare. Magic is replaced by technology, and bows with some sort of gun. (I’ll get on that later if people are interested.) My suggested setting would be a politically torn Republic on the brink of a civil war, caused by a division between two economical groups - the Urbanites who live in large metropolises and work industrial factory line jobs for relatively decent wages, and the Ruralites who live in countryside hamlets and work agricultural occupations for subsistence. 

 

The Urbanites view themselves as the “true” workers of society, and look down upon the Ruralites as country bumpkins. The Ruralites view themselves as the cornerstone of of the economy,, and look down upon the Urbanites as privileged snobs with bad attitudes. The Urbanites blame the corporate sphere for thier woes as they believe the greedy few have enslaved the economy with the wage factory system, and stand for the abolishment of Capitalism and the institution of “Community-run” economies. The Ruralites blame thier woes on the government and thier strict economic policies. They believe in the preservation and expansion of Capitalism and oppose the Urbanite’s socialism. 

 

What do you guys think so far? 

I think it would make a great Advance Wars game. I'm not being completely sarcastic it is a good story, and having a FE game that actually tackles classism (not just kind of mentions it here are there like Echoes) and the resulting civil war would be interesting. Not to mention a nice reprieve from all the evil cults/dragons. However, I've always associated Fire Emblem with fantasy, and I feel that shifting the focus from that to a more realistic steampunk setting would be way too jarring. It wouldn't really feel like a Fire Emblem game, and would be better off under a different name as its own series where the developers can really go all out, or under the Advance War series.

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@ElectiveToast: I'd like to add to your proposition, a Meiji-era "Hoshido" or another Asian/African themed country that is more successful than in real-life and discuss themes and issues on colonialism and race relations as well. I think it would be refreshing if the fantasy factor was downplayed for once to only feature basic magic and basic dragon units, and even that is on the verge of dying down. The final "boss" should not be a supernatural chosen villain, but an elite unit platoon that is being led by a charismatic general as the ultimate test of your skills in teamwork and tactics - similar to, say, how Napoleon took his final stand against the Duke of Wellington.

Edited by henrymidfields
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4 minutes ago, henrymidfields said:

@ElectiveToast: I'd like to add to your proposition, a Meiji-era "Hoshido" or another Asian/African themed country that is more successful than in real-life and discuss themes and issues on colonialism and race relations as well. I think it would be refreshing if the fantasy factor was downplayed for once to only feature basic magic and basic dragon units, and even that is on the verge of dying down. The final "boss" should not be a supernatural chosen villain, but an elite unit platoon that is being led by a charismatic general as the ultimate test of your skills in teamwork and tactics.

Interesting. That could be a nice DLC faction, but I don’t think it would fit into the class warfare theme of the main game. Maybe the protagonist party goes on an island vacation gone wrong. 

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4 hours ago, ElectiveToast said:

Interesting. That could be a nice DLC faction, but I don’t think it would fit into the class warfare theme of the main game. Maybe the protagonist party goes on an island vacation gone wrong. 

In that case, it might be better either as a separate game (though it can be within the same universe like Persona 3-5) or as a prequel/sequel. I think a dlc would be too short for either themes.

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