Why don't new FE games autosave anymore?

[SatsumaFSoysoy]

So in the GBA era, FE games would just autosave if you turned off your device/emulator, but it couldn't be used to cheese failed strats since it locks you into an action you selected. Why was this removed from the newer games in favor of manual bookmarking? It's quite convenient sometimes.

Edited August 3, 2017 by SatsumaFSoysoy

[NekoKnight]

I believe it has something to do with how the games are programmed over an intentional design decision. I'd like it back though so we can have an enforced Ironman mode.

[Wist]

I suspect they require too much save data.

Most GBA carts use EEPROM (like Zelda, which has small save files) or Flash RAM (like Pokemon, which has large save files). But GBA Fire Emblem carts use FeRAM. This lets them save a middling amount of data a large number of times much faster than other carts at evidently acceptable cost.

For whatever reason, it seems Nintendo DS carts (and probably 3DS carts) only use EEPROM or Flash RAM. It's possible neither of these could write enough data fast enough not to slow the game down. Or perhaps flash memory that could withstand a sufficiently large number of writes was deemed too expensive.

That's the extent of my limited understanding at least. I don't know much about hardware. Hopefully someone who knows more on the topic can chime in.

[Harvey]

6 hours ago, Wist said:

For whatever reason, it seems Nintendo DS carts (and probably 3DS carts) only use EEPROM or Flash RAM. It's possible neither of these could write enough data fast enough not to slow the game down. Or perhaps flash memory that could withstand a sufficiently large number of writes was deemed too expensive.

But the DS carts are far more powerful than the GBA ones simply because unlike GBA which relies in batteries for game saves, DS does not need batteries thus making the DS experience less frighting than the GBA ones.

As for the topic, Well you atleast have bookmark so that's always a thing. Also I don't think that FeRAM has anything to do with autosaving since the DS and 3DS are obviously capable of doing that. Heck I think even Radiant Dawn somewhat did that.

 

[Wist]

I agree it's possible save data storage medium wasn't a deciding influence. But perhaps I wasn't clear about why I highlighted the topic of FeRAM.

• GBA carts don't use batteries for game saves. Some carts use batteries for internal clocks, but still not for saves. Additionally, GBA carts offer more non-volatile storage media options than DS carts.
• Battery backed SRAM is faster or "more powerful" than flash. A key advantage of FeRAM is SRAM performance despite the lack of a battery.
• FeRAM is more resilient than flash memory, which is what DS Fire Emblem carts and the Wii use. Autosaving after each move can result in hundreds of save writes per chapter, maybe 2~20 thousand per typical playthrough. A few such playthroughs could easily put you within the endurance limits of cheap flash. I don't know how many writes DS carts can endure. But Nintendo did drop FeRAM, and DS games save quite slowly; I expect Nintendo went for cheap parts.

The crux of my argument is that autosaving after every move takes more time and causes more wear with Flash RAM than FeRAM. If the write speed or endurance of whatever flash units Nintendo uses was deemed insufficient, it would be reason enough not to implement GBA Fire Emblem style autosaving.

As you suggested, the culprit could lie elsewhere. It may not even be technical. Hopefully someone familiar with the topic will shed some light on other possibilities. But judging from the evidence, save file size remains a convincing candidate factor.

Edited August 7, 2017 by Wist
Clarity

[shadowofchaos]

6 hours ago, Harvey said:

Also I don't think that FeRAM has anything to do with autosaving since the DS and 3DS are obviously capable of doing that. Heck I think even Radiant Dawn somewhat did that.

Source please.

For both.

If you've noticed, the 3DS saving feature requires a lot more time even on Battle Saves to access the cart. While on SD card storage for games that are installed, it's instantaneous. The physical medium that writes to the save portion of the cart is a lot slower than what would be required for seamless gameplay. Assuming everyone has a digital copy is going to be bad.

As for Radiant Dawn... as one of the people who tore Radiant Dawn apart... I would like to know just a semblance of where that information came from.

[Harvey]

3 hours ago, shadowofchaos said:

As for Radiant Dawn... as one of the people who tore Radiant Dawn apart... I would like to know just a semblance of where that information came from.

Well I haven't played it but I did hear it from this one here.

Now I don't know where I found the one that says that battle saves are automatic in Dawn but regardless, if I'm wrong here, I'll accept it.

 

[Jave]

4 minutes ago, Harvey said:

Well I haven't played it but I did hear it from this one here.

Now I don't know where I found the one that says that battle saves are automatic in Dawn but regardless, if I'm wrong here, I'll accept it.

 

FE10 most definitely does NOT autosave. You can save at any point during Player Phase in Easy and Normal modes, but you have to do it manually.