The next Voting Gauntlet

[NekoKnight]

Another Voting Gauntlet concludes and naturally this comes with a fair amount of salt. I think it's fair to say that the VG is a flawed game mode and it would benefit from some restructuring. Let's consider the pros and cons of the various methods. (Forgive me for my formatting, I'm on mobile)

No Multiplier

Pro's:

-There is a "fair" fight in that all "votes" have the same weight.

-Potentially awesome matches between equally supported characters.

-The player isn't rewarded or punished for playing at the right/wrong time

Cons:

-The results are very predictable and once one team takes a lead, it's impossible to lose it. Very few matchups are exciting because of how one-sided they are.

-People bandwagon to the presumed winner which slants the results even more.

Multiplier

Pro's:

-Popularity still matters but it's not impossible for the less popular candidate to win.

-Results are not certain and people can stay engaged.

Cons:

-Players  are unfairly rewarded/punished depending on if they can be there for the multipliers.

-Being on an underdog team can earn you more feathers through your cumulative score, and sometimes you can get all the multipliers and still win a match.

-The results won't always reflect the true popularity of characters.

Personally, I'm more in favor of the latter system, because despite its flaws, I'd rather there not be landslide matches the majority of the time. If we were to continue the multiplier system I would alter it so that one's contribution to the team score and cumulative be recorded as though there were no multiplier. This would take out the punishing element of not getting multipliers or not being awake for them.

The biggest problem for these Gauntlets (that IS has been trying to fix) is the matter of team sizes. It's almost impossible to predict two characters to be evenly matched (so much that it's a bizarre coincidence, not design, when it happens) so no matter who you select, someone is going to become an unstoppable Juggernaut. What if they went in a new direction and fixed the team sizes? The way it would work is that you'd rank the characters you want to support in order of most to least and the game puts you on a team to best make all competors equal, only differing in their individual conviction to win. I know some people won't like it. Some will shout "fake popularity!" or "I can't support my waifu!", but realistically, the only "fair fight" is one that starts on even ground.

Thoughts? What is your solution to a better Voting Gauntlet?

Edited August 7, 2017 by NekoKnight

[Sunwoo]

My solution to a better voting gauntlet would be to just make it a battle gauntlet. Take out this whole "voting for heroes" thing. Divide the player base as evenly as you can into eight equal teams. Make a bonus hero exclusive to each team, alongside four other bonus heroes for everyone to use, and now suddenly player numbers is all that matters, not whether your team is overly popular or bandwagoning for easy feathers. Plus, this system wouldn't even require a multiplier. Players on the losing teams could be reshuffled to teams still in the game so that people can still play.

Edited August 7, 2017 by Sunwoo

[DraceEmpressa]

Make it one gender . The healer gauntlet was surprisngly exciting, when Lissa lost her army isn't being salty, most fights are tight, and even Elise did won like people predicted, she didn't have easy time. 

[Cute Chao]

I still feel they could balance the stacks a bit better. Stop including the very top tier characters like Lucina, Camilla, Tharja, or just throw them into their own gauntlet together. 

Of course, that then runs the risk of there being less interest, but with orbs and feathers as prizes, people will still play. And those who actually care about the results or characters other than those at the very top might actually find themselves more invested. We could do away with the multiplier as well, since the characters would hopefully be more evenly matched, those this might be asking too much.

[Ice Dragon]

5 minutes ago, Sunwoo said:

My solution to a better voting gauntlet would be to just make it a battle gauntlet. Take out this whole "voting for heroes" thing. Divide the player base as evenly as you can into eight equal teams. Make a bonus hero exclusive to each team, alongside four other bonus heroes for everyone to use, and now suddenly player numbers is all that matters, not whether your team is overly popular or bandwagoning for easy feathers. Plus, this system wouldn't even require a multiplier. Players on the losing teams could be reshuffled to teams still in the game so that people can still play.

Dropping people on random teams gives them zero motivation to win besides feather rewards. You don't have a sense of attachment to your team, and really only care to beat out your teammates in the rankings, which makes the concept of teams kind of pointless to begin with.

 

I personally don't find the existence of predetermined winners to be a problem as long as you can keep both teams engaged during each match.

[Sunwoo]

Just now, Ice Dragon said:

Dropping people on random teams gives them zero motivation to win besides feather rewards. You don't have a sense of attachment to your team, and really only care to beat out your teammates in the rankings, which makes the concept of teams kind of pointless to begin with.

 

I personally don't find the existence of predetermined winners to be a problem as long as you can keep both teams engaged during each match.

I, personally, have zero motivation to win besides feather rewards anyway regardless of what characters are in the gauntlet. I imagine others will be the same. Can't please everybody.

[NekoKnight]

4 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

I personally don't find the existence of predetermined winners to be a problem as long as you can keep both teams engaged during each match.

Isn't the possibility to win a core element of what keeps people enaged?

[DraceEmpressa]

10 minutes ago, Cute Chao said:

I still feel they could balance the stacks a bit better. Stop including the very top tier characters like Lucina, Camilla, Tharja, or just throw them into their own gauntlet together. 

Of course, that then runs the risk of there being less interest, but with orbs and feathers as prizes, people will still play. And those who actually care about the results or characters other than those at the very top might actually find themselves more invested. We could do away with the multiplier as well, since the characters would hopefully be more evenly matched, those this might be asking too much.

oooor, once the differences reached a certain point, the activator percentage lowered. It's 10% by default  now, I hope it decrease inversely as the points grew. 

Healer gauntlets includes Elise, but even if she did won, she didn't have easy time and Priscilla put up a  decent fight instead of utterly crushed. And surprisingly, Corrin won against Robin. What is expectable to happen at every single gauntlet is that males gonna be crushed by females, period. One gender gauntlet like the healer one would be more interesting instead of the guaranteed "waifu crushes hasbu" theme.  

[Cute Chao]

1 minute ago, DraceEmpressa said:

oooor, once the differences reached a certain point, the activator percentage lowered. It's 10% by default  now, I hope it decrease inversely as the points grew. 

Healer gauntlets includes Elise, but even if she did won, she didn't have easy time and Priscilla put up a  decent fight instead of utterly crushed. And surprisingly, Corrin won against Robin. What is expectable to happen at every single gauntlet is that males gonna be crushed by females, period. One gender gauntlet like the healer one would be more interesting instead of the guaranteed "waifu crushes hasbu" theme.  

I think Ike is the exception to this, but he doesn't interest me, and he would be another case of top tier character beats all. 

I would like a male only gauntlet. We've had nearly two for females (with Subaki being the only one stopping a pegasus/wyvern gauntlet being fully one gender) so it'd be nice to finally have one for the guys. Preferably without Ike, since as I said, he's likely the only guy who could beat the girls, so it'd become a redundant thing again. 

[DraceEmpressa]

1 minute ago, Cute Chao said:

I think Ike is the exception to this, but he doesn't interest me, and he would be another case of top tier character beats all. 

I would like a male only gauntlet. We've had nearly two for females (with Subaki being the only one stopping a pegasus/wyvern gauntlet being fully one gender) so it'd be nice to finally have one for the guys. Preferably without Ike, since as I said, he's likely the only guy who could beat the girls, so it'd become a redundant thing again. 

and maybe Hector too, but I think similarly and no, I'm not rooting for them either, \

Same, and, while Subaki did beat Beruka, he got crushed by Minerva in the second round anyway, and Ike... no matter what is the theme of the gauntlet and who is his opponent, he would crush them anyway, so no, including him are out of the list to make the gauntlet interesting. I was thinking of the all male archer one, in hopes either Shinon or Innes put a good fight against Takumi like Priscilla with Elise. besides that's the one class without male beefcakes so that's other reason why I'm interested

[Ice Dragon]

15 minutes ago, Sunwoo said:

I, personally, have zero motivation to win besides feather rewards anyway regardless of what characters are in the gauntlet. I imagine others will be the same. Can't please everybody.

The players that actually care about the supporting the characters they like lose their source of motivation, and the players that only care about their rewards now have a harder time placing because they're on even ground with literally everyone else.

That's a failure in design.

 

12 minutes ago, NekoKnight said:

Isn't the possibility to win a core element of what keeps people enaged?

Which is why I support keeping the multiplier there, if with a few numerical tweaks.

[Cute Chao]

3 minutes ago, DraceEmpressa said:

and maybe Hector too, but I think similarly and no, I'm not rooting for them either, \

Same, and, while Subaki did beat Beruka, he got crushed by Minerva in the second round anyway, and Ike... no matter what is the theme of the gauntlet and who is his opponent, he would crush them anyway, so no, including him are out of the list to make the gauntlet interesting. I was thinking of the all male archer one, in hopes either Shinon or Innes put a good fight against Takumi like Priscilla with Elise. besides that's the one class without male beefcakes so that's other reason why I'm interested

Takumi doesn't need to be in it. Problem is, including someone as prominent as him in with others is another way to unbalance it, imo, if it's just for archers. I just can't imagine Innes or Shinon making up for his popularity, especially with the 3DS crowd. Elise isn't as popular as Takumi overall. 

I would love a Christmas Knights gauntlet. Even if they include Sully, I reckon she wouldn't stand too much of a chance, and Stahl doesn't seem popular enough to be a curbstomp. Maybe wait until a few more are added (come on Kent, Sain, Kyle, Forde, Oscar, Keiran, Kein, Asvel, Noish, Alec, Alen, Lance... what, I love my christmas knights!), and then really go for it. 

[Kahvi]

I've been hoping for a myrmidon/samurai gauntlet for a while, admittedly mostly because I like myrms a lot. They would just have to either not include Ryoma or put him against someone popular, like Lon'qu. I can see there being problems with that gauntlet too but at least there might be a male winner for once.

1 minute ago, Cute Chao said:

I would love a Christmas Knights gauntlet. Even if they include Sully, I reckon she wouldn't stand too much of a chance, and Stahl doesn't seem popular enough to be a curbstomp. Maybe wait until a few more are added (come on Kent, Sain, Kyle, Forde, Oscar, Keiran, Kein, Asvel, Noish, Alec, Alen, Lance... what, I love my christmas knights!), and then really go for it. 

Ooh, I like this idea. As long as they don't get the bright idea to put Xander there.

[wizzard of soz]

33 minutes ago, Sunwoo said:

My solution to a better voting gauntlet would be to just make it a battle gauntlet. Take out this whole "voting for heroes" thing. Divide the player base as evenly as you can into eight equal teams. Make a bonus hero exclusive to each team, alongside four other bonus heroes for everyone to use, and now suddenly player numbers is all that matters, not whether your team is overly popular or bandwagoning for easy feathers. Plus, this system wouldn't even require a multiplier. Players on the losing teams could be reshuffled to teams still in the game so that people can still play.

this actually sounds pretty fun to me. i'd also want the battles you go through to earn points for your team to be harder, or you can choose harder modes to earn more points. it makes it seem more competitive rather than just breezing through gauntlet battles (except when you get screwed by WTA) and only being able to get a certain amount of points due to how many flags are available. i don't think it should replace the gauntlet though, it's not really the same. but if this was a mode in the future i'd definitely play (cuz yeah feathers are good motivation?? maybe even orb rewards too..)

 

and agreed about waifu vs husbando thing where waifus will always win. a male only gauntlet would be aight.

 

[DraceEmpressa]

1 minute ago, Cute Chao said:

Takumi doesn't need to be in it. Problem is, including someone as prominent as him in with others is another way to unbalance it, imo, if it's just for archers. I just can't imagine Innes or Shinon making up for his popularity, especially with the 3DS crowd. Elise isn't as popular as Takumi overall. 

I would love a Christmas Knights gauntlet. Even if they include Sully, I reckon she wouldn't stand too much of a chance, and Stahl doesn't seem popular enough to be a curbstomp. Maybe wait until a few more are added (come on Kent, Sain, Kyle, Forde, Oscar, Keiran, Kein, Asvel, Noish, Alec, Alen, Lance... what, I love my christmas knights!), and then really go for it. 

cavaliers.... yes! I think none of them are outstanding, and I can't see them helding gauntlets for villains because they will want us to pull. Yes, that would be interesting. How about dagger users? (refresh unit are out of the option because of Azura)

[Cute Chao]

12 minutes ago, Kahvi said:

I've been hoping for a myrmidon/samurai gauntlet for a while, admittedly mostly because I like myrms a lot. They would just have to either not include Ryoma or put him against someone popular, like Lon'qu. I can see there being problems with that gauntlet too but at least there might be a male winner for once.

Ooh, I like this idea. As long as they don't get the bright idea to put Xander there.

Xander's not a Christmas Knight, at least :D 

But yep, a seperate cavalier gauntlet would also be cool... Part of me reckons Camus might be able to give Xander a run for his money, and Reinhardt could be pretty awesome, too... but then there is still the 3DS factor in play. And I do like Xander a lot... I just don't want him to win by curbstomp... 

Myrms would be awesome, too :) I'm not sure who would win... I mean Lon'qu is fairly popular, so maybe he could stand a chance... I like to think Navarre would, but again... 3DS factor... 

I might be being a bit too cynical about older games chances vs newer games, though.

 

5 minutes ago, DraceEmpressa said:

cavaliers.... yes! I think none of them are outstanding, and I can't see them helding gauntlets for villains because they will want us to pull. Yes, that would be interesting. How about dagger users? (refresh unit are out of the option because of Azura)

I would love a dagger unit one, but I feel like they almost have to put Kagero in there as she is probably the best dagger unit in the game... and I can't really imagine her losing. If they could make it an all male one, that'd be great, though. Or maybe I'm overestimating Kagero's chances... 

[LuxSpes]

I'll paraphrase what I posted in the Voting Gauntlet thread, but I currently don't really have an issue with the current voting gauntlet cause I see it as a really relaxing way of acquiring feathers as well as an opportunity to use units you don't own. I really couldn't care less about the popularity contest aspect of it. 

Only change I would make the multiplier a static x3, like when it was first introduced, to lower the chances of upsets and maybe increase the feather reward for winning by a small amount to compensate for the multiplier making it easier for the losing side to score higher in the overall ranking.

[DraceEmpressa]

23 minutes ago, Cute Chao said:

Xander's not a Christmas Knight, at least :D 

But yep, a seperate cavalier gauntlet would also be cool... Part of me reckons Camus might be able to give Xander a run for his money, and Reinhardt could be pretty awesome, too... but then there is still the 3DS factor in play. And I do like Xander a lot... I just don't want him to win by curbstomp... 

Myrms would be awesome, too :) I'm not sure who would win... I mean Lon'qu is fairly popular, so maybe he could stand a chance... I like to think Navarre would, but again... 3DS factor... 

I might be being a bit too cynical about older games chances vs newer games, though.

 

I would love a dagger unit one, but I feel like they almost have to put Kagero in there as she is probably the best dagger unit in the game... and I can't really imagine her losing. If they could make it an all male one, that'd be great, though. Or maybe I'm overestimating Kagero's chances... 

I think if the multiplier is applicated earlier, Minerva would have tight fight with Camilla. Also, Xander and Camus are out of the list, since they'll want us to roll and gain more money from the banner, same reason why villain gauntlet is out of the list.

Ephraim did beat Chrom. it's just the final is male vs female so he got utterly trashed. 

Good or bad didn't affect popularity that much imo, Leo's stat is crap and even more so the summer one, and Takumi clearly is outclassed by Cordelia, but even if they become less useful their fans would still roll for them. 

[HK Motendra]

If they may ride on the Echoes train, an easy option for a gauntlet could pretty much consist of Alm's Army vs Crlica's Army. Since its so recent, we don't actually have a concrete answer to who's the most most popular, so it's practically anyone's game. 'Course, then there's the question of who to include, cause both sides have like..... 9 units to choose from

[DraceEmpressa]

3 minutes ago, Motendra said:

If they may ride on the Echoes train, an easy option for a gauntlet could pretty much consist of Alm's Army vs Crlica's Army. Since its so recent, we don't actually have a concrete answer to who's the most most popular, so it's practically anyone's game. 'Course, then there's the question of who to include, cause both sides have like..... 9 units to choose from

Tobin, Clive and Berkut are free units, so they are out of option. And that would be an obvious waifu crush hasbu again since in CYL Celica ranked way higher than Alm. 

[NekoKnight]

So how do people feel about your team score and cumulative score not taking into account multipliers? I feel the biggest issue with the multiplier is how much it changes your score to be available at the right times.

[Ice Dragon]

9 minutes ago, NekoKnight said:

So how do people feel about your team score and cumulative score not taking into account multipliers? I feel the biggest issue with the multiplier is how much it changes your score to be available at the right times.

We'd have the issue of bandwagoning again.

Without multipliers affecting your score, joining the larger team for victory feathers is worth more feathers than joining the smaller team for higher ranking.

[NekoKnight]

39 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

We'd have the issue of bandwagoning again.

Without multipliers affecting your score, joining the larger team for victory feathers is worth more feathers than joining the smaller team for higher ranking.

Perhaps, but the current system can end up giving people tons of multipliers AND winning the match.

[bethany81707]

1 hour ago, DraceEmpressa said:

Tobin, Clive and Berkut are free units, so they are out of option. And that would be an obvious waifu crush hasbu again since in CYL Celica ranked way higher than Alm. 

CYL doesn't really apply to the Echoes characters. Celica might drop due to the Jedah trick, and there are several characters in the current order I do not expect to remain in said order with their new personalities. Seriously, I will never understand Boey beating Mae.

[salinea]

The main problem with the Gauntlet is that the whole concept is super boring. The first one was okay as a novelty, but every subsequent Gauntlet has felt like a wearisome chore that I nonetheless have to go through in order to win feathers, turning me against Heroes as a whole (and i love the game otherwise!). Just... scrap the whole concept and replace it with something else that's actually fun and interesting.