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NFL 2017-2018 Season - Eagles win their first Super Bowl!


Anacybele
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8 minutes ago, Lord Raven said:

tbh todd haley is better than nothing (they didn't have an OC), he hasn't historically been a bad OC. i mean, the steelers have won the division with him as OC for a while, and todd haley was the OC of the Cardinals team that almost won the Super Bowl (and their offense carried them through)

Todd Haley had a lot of talent on that Steelers offense helping him though. And that offense that really should be the most talented period right now since they've torched even the best defenses (The Broncos that one year, putting up 42 on the JAGS this year), yet blunders a bunch of times when they should be putting up like 30 a game. Also, even commentators have questioned a number of Haley's calls. Ben also doesn't like him, and I can see why. His dumb playcalling doesn't let Ben be Ben. The offense is better when Ben is running it on his own and calling the shots. This is why I think when Ben retires, he needs to come back as an OC for someone. I'd be afraid to go against that kind of offense!

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34 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

Todd Haley had a lot of talent on that Steelers offense helping him though. And that offense that really should be the most talented period right now since they've torched even the best defenses (The Broncos that one year, putting up 42 on the JAGS this year), yet blunders a bunch of times when they should be putting up like 30 a game. Also, even commentators have questioned a number of Haley's calls. Ben also doesn't like him, and I can see why. His dumb playcalling doesn't let Ben be Ben. The offense is better when Ben is running it on his own and calling the shots. This is why I think when Ben retires, he needs to come back as an OC for someone. I'd be afraid to go against that kind of offense!

I'm going to point out that someone announcing that the QB "calls plays at the line" is not very accurate. The first 15 or so plays in a West Coast Offense tend to be scripted, ie called ahead of time and it's what walkthroughs consist of (running those + others). Other than that, the no huddle is where they call specific plays for a specific situation, which is why QBs seem like they're doing a lot in clutch time during a no huddle, because odds are the defense has an easily exploitable weakness and only a small set of plays is necessary to do it. Some QBs do, from time to time, call plays on their own, but that's not nearly as often as we football fans think, seeing as the QB does not see everything but the coordinator and assistants in the booth (and some coordinators sit in the booth, some stand on the sidelines; every team has a different structure) can see more and see what the defense is actually doing.

Having that said, Haley wasn't *that* bad because the Steelers were Top 5 in every metric every single season, and in some seasons Top 3. Situational football and play-calling, sure, but Tomlin's Steelers have issues with that in general and it's not just a Todd Haley problem.

Todd Haley himself...  from what I'm hearing, is a gigantic asshole and probably relatively hard to work with from a player's perspective which completely interferes with a team's ability to produce. It seems like he could be used to right the ship because he's really not that bad, but not someone to keep long-term. The Browns currently have no OC.

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20 hours ago, Lord Raven said:

I'm going to point out that someone announcing that the QB "calls plays at the line" is not very accurate. The first 15 or so plays in a West Coast Offense tend to be scripted, ie called ahead of time and it's what walkthroughs consist of (running those + others). Other than that, the no huddle is where they call specific plays for a specific situation, which is why QBs seem like they're doing a lot in clutch time during a no huddle, because odds are the defense has an easily exploitable weakness and only a small set of plays is necessary to do it. Some QBs do, from time to time, call plays on their own, but that's not nearly as often as we football fans think, seeing as the QB does not see everything but the coordinator and assistants in the booth (and some coordinators sit in the booth, some stand on the sidelines; every team has a different structure) can see more and see what the defense is actually doing.

Having that said, Haley wasn't *that* bad because the Steelers were Top 5 in every metric every single season, and in some seasons Top 3. Situational football and play-calling, sure, but Tomlin's Steelers have issues with that in general and it's not just a Todd Haley problem.

Todd Haley himself...  from what I'm hearing, is a gigantic asshole and probably relatively hard to work with from a player's perspective which completely interferes with a team's ability to produce. It seems like he could be used to right the ship because he's really not that bad, but not someone to keep long-term. The Browns currently have no OC.

You're missing the point. All I'm saying is that Haley's playcalling preferences and strained relationship with the team have been holding Ben and the others back and wasting their years. Ben only has few precious years left before he's done. And then it's back to several years of rebuilding and looking for a new franchise QB. There were a few decades or so between Ben and Terry Bradshaw, after all. You're likely not going to find a new franchise QB quickly. Occasionally a team might get lucky (like the Colts finding Andrew Luck right after losing Peyton Manning), but that'll rarely happen.

I would just like to see Ben get one more ring and get rings for AB and Bell before he retires... Well, if Bell stays with us. AB will no doubt, but don't know about Bell yet. Even if Bell DOES technically want to stay...

Just get rings for the amazing Killer B's, Steelers... That's all I ask for, and then you can spend all the time you want building up a new SB team around a new franchise QB...

I'm aware Todd Haley isn't the only problem, but he WAS the main problem with the offense. Now the defensive issues need work and unlike some fans, I don't think the problem is Keith Butler, the DC. He's pretty decent from what I've seen, we've just lacked enough talent and healthy guys. Notice that a big majority of our injuries this year were on defense... And a lot of players on our defense are still young. Guys like Artie Burns and Sean Davis got growing room. And before Ryan Shazier went down, our D was top 10.

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1 hour ago, Anacybele said:

You're missing the point. All I'm saying is that Haley's playcalling preferences and strained relationship with the team have been holding Ben and the others back and wasting their years. Ben only has few precious years left before he's done. And then it's back to several years of rebuilding and looking for a new franchise QB. There were a few decades or so between Ben and Terry Bradshaw, after all. You're likely not going to find a new franchise QB quickly. Occasionally a team might get lucky (like the Colts finding Andrew Luck right after losing Peyton Manning), but that'll rarely happen.

I would just like to see Ben get one more ring and get rings for AB and Bell before he retires... Well, if Bell stays with us. AB will no doubt, but don't know about Bell yet. Even if Bell DOES technically want to stay...

Just get rings for the amazing Killer B's, Steelers... That's all I ask for, and then you can spend all the time you want building up a new SB team around a new franchise QB...

I'm aware Todd Haley isn't the only problem, but he WAS the main problem with the offense. Now the defensive issues need work and unlike some fans, I don't think the problem is Keith Butler, the DC. He's pretty decent from what I've seen, we've just lacked enough talent and healthy guys. Notice that a big majority of our injuries this year were on defense... And a lot of players on our defense are still young. Guys like Artie Burns and Sean Davis got growing room. And before Ryan Shazier went down, our D was top 10.

Okay, but the point is that the offense has been Top 5 at worst since Haley's been there. You have to provide a stronger argument than "holding them back," because Ben Roethlisberger's play the last 3-4 years has been a giant outlier compared to the rest of his career too. It's very simplistic to say Haley was holding them back.

"All I ask for is a ring" is as if rings grow on trees. They don't. Todd Haley wasn't the main issue with the offense either, because the offense flat out was not that much of an issue. The defense has issues and the offense has issues with more or less discipline (since the B's you're talking about all have a ton of diva moments, some of those issues which you even brag about). He's really an asshole, but the offense has been Top 5 so he's been at least effective and his system works.

Anyway, Mike Tomlin was supposedly calling the defense much of the year according to reports, and just like Dean Pees if a few players go down and the defense melts down (see: Baltimore whenever it loses Jimmy Smith, since we are always way better with him than without him) then that's absolutely on the defensive coaching for being unable to adapt.

I'm getting the feeling that the Steelers need to look themselves hard in the mirror and see that they have attitude issues. Ben Roethlisberger, Todd Haley, and Mike Tomlin basically throwing each other under the bus in public is not a good working relationship by any stretch, and Todd Haley not being signed back (note: his contract expired) means that they ultimately went with Ben. But that is the sign of an attitude problem, when a quarterback openly and willingly throws the coaching staff under the bus in public.

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1 hour ago, Lord Raven said:

"All I ask for is a ring" is as if rings grow on trees. They don't.

...Dude, do you honestly think I meant it that way? Because I definitely didn't.

1 hour ago, Lord Raven said:

Okay, but the point is that the offense has been Top 5 at worst since Haley's been there. You have to provide a stronger argument than "holding them back," because Ben Roethlisberger's play the last 3-4 years has been a giant outlier compared to the rest of his career too. It's very simplistic to say Haley was holding them back.

Like I said, that's due to the talent we have. AB and Bell have been the best at their positions lately and Ben is a top 5 QB and future hall of famer. And our o-line has been great and we've been deep at WR in particular. They'll make pretty much any OC look good sometimes.

I will agree, however, that some of these guys need to lay up on the social media a bit. I don't think they should be banned from it or anything, as they're people with their own lives too, but they should control themselves here and not post dumb shit.

Otherwise, they're not that undisciplined, honestly. I can't remember the last time AB or Bell were penalized on the field or got into fights with other players. I think I've seen AB get one or two unsportsmanlike conduct penalties, but that was years ago. And I don't think I've ever seen Bell get flagged period. Their only issue is how much they mess with social media, that's really it. Bell did get two suspensions, but the first one was because LeGarrette Blount was a bad influence on him and the second was a fluke because Bell missed his drug tests due to travel issues. He's not been in any kind of real trouble since that LeGarrette Blount issue.

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2 hours ago, Anacybele said:

AB and Bell have been the best at their positions lately and Ben is a top 5 QB and future hall of famer. And our o-line has been great and we've been deep at WR in particular. They'll make pretty much any OC look good sometimes.

Uh-huh, and he definitely utilized them and made them a Top 5 offense at worst.

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8 hours ago, Lord Raven said:

Uh-huh, and he definitely utilized them and made them a Top 5 offense at worst.

Because of their talent. They make him look good even though he isn't! Why aren't you reading what I'm saying?

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3 hours ago, Hylian Air Force said:

Thoughts on Mike Vrabel for Titans Head Coach? Nobody here particularly likes the Texans, but do you think he will be better than any of the other coaches for Tennessee within the last 10 years?

I like Vrabel (obvious bias included,) but I'm really not sure how he ranks compared to other Titans coaches. They key to achieving success during his tenure is going to be reversing Mariota's regression, so Vrabel's OC/QB coach will be imperative 

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7 hours ago, Anacybele said:

Because of their talent. They make him look good even though he isn't! Why aren't you reading what I'm saying?

A good OC can take an untalented team and do a lot with it (see: 2014 Ravens).

A bad OC can take a talented team and do bad with it (look at the current Falcons, who should still be a Top 5 offense just purely by the talent on that offense, but they weren't this year and it cost them a trip to the NFCCG).

A bad OC can indeed prevent a team from becoming a Top 5 offense. You cannot lay it purely on the talent of the Steelers that they've been Top 5. Julio Jones is as good as receiver as Antonio Brown, Mohammed Sanu is better than any given Steelers #2 receiver and the Falcons have two talented running backs. Matt Ryan is about as good a QB as Ben Roethlisberger as well, and the Falcons team was something like Top 15 all-time scoring last year or some shit with like 550ish points.

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15 hours ago, Hylian Air Force said:

Thoughts on Mike Vrabel for Titans Head Coach? Nobody here particularly likes the Texans, but do you think he will be better than any of the other coaches for Tennessee within the last 10 years?

Not a particularly impressive coaching record- hasn't been one for very long and his defense with the Texans last year was bad. Lots of injuries to be fair, but on the flip side that means he needs talent like Watt and Mercilus to have a good defense. Going for young coaches seems to be the trend- it's working out well for the Rams and Eagles, although Pederson comes from the successful Reid coaching tree and McVay had a longer and better track record than Vrabel.

That being said, as someone who has had Mike Mularkey as their head coach he's probably not a huge downgrade. A lot of it may come down to the OC choice- kinda expected an offensive coach to help Mariota who struggled last year. 

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WOW, the Steelers' Killer B trio almost pulled off a sick play in the Probowl. :O

Ben -> Bell -> AB and then AB tried to launch it to someone down field. SWEETNESS. It failed only because the receiver had it batted out of his hand as he was trying to secure the catch.

The AFC made a comeback win though! lol

Man, it was fun having TEN guys in the Pro Bowl this year. Shows just how damn talented we are and how capable we are of winning a SB, we just need the right coaching (and to not get screwed by the refs...), which is why I'm glad Haley is gone and why I hope Tomlin gets better at preparation. And some improvements on the defense wouldn't hurt at all either, that's for sure.

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15 minutes ago, chococoke said:

I wouldn't hold out hope on Tomlin becoming any better at this coaching thing. I'd say he is what he is at this point in time, which I believe to be an awful coach

I didn't know never having a losing season and getting to the SB twice made you an awful coach.

Seriously, he does have issues preparing the team sometimes, but that's really all. He's pretty good otherwise. And who would he be replaced with? I doubt anyone we'd find now would be much better.

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He also has the best winning percentage of a coach in franchise history. I just don't think he runs the locker room very well. Also his teams have been notorious for playing down to inferior competition. To me, that starts with the coach.

You're right, though, there's no guarantee a better replacement is out there. It'll be interesting to see if his squads have the same issues going forward

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52 minutes ago, chococoke said:

He also has the best winning percentage of a coach in franchise history. I just don't think he runs the locker room very well. Also his teams have been notorious for playing down to inferior competition. To me, that starts with the coach.

You're right, though, there's no guarantee a better replacement is out there. It'll be interesting to see if his squads have the same issues going forward

They don't always do that. Note the blowouts vs the Titans and the Texans, who were lesser teams. So I doubt it's on purpose, even though it DOES still need to happen less often.

And Tomlin is a big idiot if the Jags game didn't teach him anything.

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Guys, traffic is already starting to get real bad in the Twin Cities. 

Oh boy. I'm just gonna board up my doors and windows and hope that the Eagles don't waste this opportunity. 

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10 hours ago, Jingle Jangle said:

So can someone give me a run down of the teams in this year's Superbowl? Football isn't really my thing, but I try to understand the championship.

Eagles: Great defense, solid everything else. Quarterback is a former joke who has started to come into his own after their star QB went down. Terrifying defensive line. They were the favorites throughout the year until Carson Wentz went down, now they're the underdogs in the SB. Despite being the easier of the two teams to root for, they have far and away one of the worst(If not the worst?) fanbase in the NFL, which is more prominent in the years they do well... This is the best year the Eagles have ever had. 

Patriots: Great offense, solid everything else. The team is full of braindead meatheads like Tom Brady and Rob Gronkowski who are absolute savants when it comes to football. They, like damn near every year for the past decade, were one of the favorites throughout the year, and once Carson Wentz tore his ACL, they became the favorites all year and are the favorites to win the SB. They also have a reputation as cheaters, and people who don't like the team will regularly remind you of this.

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Some more history on the background of both teams and coaches: the Patriots are basically Goliath and the Eagles are David.

The Patriots have won 2 of the last 3 Super Bowls, been to the last 7 AFC Championship games (one of the two games that decides who goes to the Super Bowl) and have had a Top 10 offense the last 11 years. Their offense makes the NFL look effortless and it grates everyone. They are a methodical and pragmatic team. Their offense is not about big plays but a bunch of small chunk plays to take advantage of holes in the defense, but they also score very fast and efficiently. They have one of the greatest if not THE greatest quarterback of all time, Tom Brady, playing at age 40 at an MVP level on his way to his 8th Super Bowl in 17 years. If the Patriots win this game, then the Patriots will tie the Steelers with 6 Super Bowl wins, and Tom Brady will shatter even more records (he currently has the most super bowl wins as a starting quarterback at 5 and putting him at 6th will place him completely out of reach; for reference, joe montana and terry bradshaw are tied for #2 at 4 wins, and there's very few with 3 or less) related to the Super Bowl.

Bill Belichick has won two Super Bowls as a defensive coordinator and 5 as a head coach. He has the highest win percentage of all time as a head coach because he's been the best coach in the league for the past 17] years. The Patriots have had an unprecedented era of success from 2001-2017 including a season where they won every single regular season game (16-0 in 2007) and shattered every single offensive record. They lost the Super Bowl, but it's quite simply remarkable how incredible their success has been. However, I fucking hate them with a passion, and Bill Belichick and Tom Brady could've been my coach and QB because Bill Belichick was technically coaching my team before our idiot (at the time) owner fired him!

The Eagles have a history of making it close but never winning. They are under a second year head coach with a veteran backup QB. The head coach himself was a backup QB as well, and he was an assistant for Eagles' longtime head coach Andy Reid. They're extremely powerful on defense and they are potent on offense with or without their starting quarterback. They may well have been the most complete team in the league, and they have been dominant in the stronger conference all season. The Patriots won the weakest AFC in years, whereas the Eagles won in the strongest NFC in years, for comparison.

They've been to two Super Bowls and lost both. Once to the Raiders in a strike shortened season (1982) where the Raiders just slaughtered them. Once to the Patriots in a 24-21 game that was 24-14 with like 2-3 minutes left (so it wasn't as close as it appeared). They've appeared in many NFC Championship Games, and they lost 4 of them after making 5 in a row in the early 2000s. They are the only team in their division without a single Super Bowl title (when the other teams in their division have 3+ titles).

In theory, it looks like a good game. The Super Bowls since 1999 have been very entertaining with a few exceptions (2000, 2002, 2004, 2006, 2013). But then again, any given sunday!

Edited by Lord Raven
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6 minutes ago, chococoke said:

Game day bitches!

honestly, regardless of what happens, I'm happy to know that you'll all be pleased with an Eagles win. Would take some of the sting out of a super bowl loss

I have to root for the team that knocked out MY team, despite all of my misgivings with the Eagles.

Plus, a team getting their first SB win is always nice(Although, it would make the Vikings an even BIGGER embarrassment for having THAT good of a win/loss record and THAT many playoff appearances without a ring. There'd be a pretty huge gap between them and #2 without Philly being the #2 anymore).

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Eagles, don't fucking blow this like the Falcons did. That was the stupidest shit ever!

That TD pass Foles caught though, omg lol. I haven't been watching, but my stepbrother and stepdad told me I had to see that and that WAS awesome. And they did it after the Patriots attempted it too. lol Brady trying to be a WR is hilarious.

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