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NFL 2017-2018 Season - Eagles win their first Super Bowl!


Anacybele
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16 hours ago, Hawk King said:

d Blake Bortles is quite awful at throwing a football. I could throw a football that cuts through the wind since I was 14.

Blake Bortles is not terrible (you could certainly find worse, he's definitely a bit below average, like a better Trent Dilfer) but I imagine he's not used to being in this situation right now given how shitty the Jaguars were his whole career.

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Well, Ben was hoping he'd face the Jags in the divisional so he could redeem himself vs them after that stinker earlier in the season. I'm glad to see this, because it means he isn't afraid and has some confidence that he can do better this time. He just shouldn't get upset if he still throws one pick, or even two. The Jags' D is still very good in the secondary, and as long as it isn't a stupid situation like the end of that Pats game or something like that, a pick won't mean the game's lost.

On another note, who else agrees with me that Juju Smith-Schuster needs to be offensive rookie of the year? The kid's a stud! I'm not saying this because he's on my team, I swear. He's been that good! Even NFL.com agrees he's one of the best slot receivers this year. And he set records! His 97 yard TD bomb play vs the Lions set like four different records, and before that, he was the first player in NFL history to record three TDs before turning 21. Also, he was able to put in more work when AB wasn't there for the last two games. Did I mention he returned a punt for a TD too? Like I said, this kid's a freaking stud!

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2 hours ago, Anacybele said:

 

On another note, who else agrees with me that Juju Smith-Schuster needs to be offensive rookie of the year?

Not many people. Not because Juju's bad, but because Alvin Kamara has 728 rushing yards on 120 carries (6.1 ypc, leads the league) and 826 yards on 81 receptions while splitting time with Mark Ingram (1124 on 230 carries leadingn to 4.5 ypc) and 416/71 receptions. Kamara scored 13 TDs (8 rushing + 5 receiving) while again sharing the load with Mark Ingram (12 rushing 0 receiving TDs) and basically the entirety of the Saints receiving group (not much but the Saints/Sean Payton and Drew Brees historically have an extremely powerful passing game so Brees REALLY spreads the ball out).

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1 hour ago, Lord Raven said:

Not many people.

Oh, I didn't know you knew many people. Don't be such a hardass. You act like I'm just stupid or something.

Anyway, Juju's had to do what he did while sharing the load with the Steelers' deep-as-an-ocean recieving group, including the best WR in AB <3 so he ought to at least be a big part of the conversation.

I'd also say TJ Watt ought to be in the conversation for defensive rookie of the year, but I don't think he has as much a shot at that as Juju does for OROY. He's great, but Juju man.

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9 hours ago, chococoke said:

Omg Ana, sick burn but that's sorta unnecessary. Raven wasn't being malicious. It would be much more obvious than that

Well, saying "not many people" like that with the history he and I have had just comes off as a little demeaning to me. My bad if it wasn't his intent though. We haven't clashed much lately, I know, but I don't want it to happen again. I really do respect Lord Raven as a member of this site and I even admit I've learned things from him. He doesn't have to respect me if he doesn't want to, I'm just saying.

9 hours ago, chococoke said:

Also I'd argue being a part of a deep WR group worsens the argument for Juju 

How so? Lord Raven used a similar argument for that Kamara guy by saying the Saints are deep offensively due to Drew Brees spreading the ball around a lot. Ben does the same, as I can think of like almost a dozen different guys he throws to practically every game: AB, Bell, Juju, Martavis Bryant, Eli Rogers, Justin Hunter, Jesse James, Vance McDonald, Xavier Grimble, and even Roosevelt Nix has gotten a pass or two, despite that he's more often asked to block (since he's a hell of a blocker). That's ten guys right there. Five WRs, three TEs, and two RBs. James Conner, our backup RB, might eventually be catching passes too, provided he returns from his injury.

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Not possible, since there are AFC awards too, and the Rams are NFC. Speaking of which, AB for AFC OPoY! WOOHOO! :D There's a reason he's my favorite!

...But fuck. We just lost another player on defense to injury. -_- Artie Burns got hurt in practice and left with a knee injury. He hasn't had that good of a season, but still. We're thin in the secondary and can't really afford this.

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Sounds like Artie avoided major injury. He may not be available Sunday, but it's not like the Jags have much talent at WR (or QB, for that matter) 

Might as well continue whiffing on some betting lines 

Atlanta @ Philadelphia(+3)

I want so badly to pick the Falcons, but I find myself actually believing in Philly. I can't really explain why, either, as I've been hating on Philly since before Carson Wentz went down. Note: I have 0 faith in Nick Foles whatsoever. I just think Philly can pull off the same strategy Denver did when they carried decrepit Peyton Manning to a championship. That strategy being defense and a healthy dose of running the ball. Atlanta really struggled in Philly last season, and the conditions for this game are shaping up to be pretty shitty. If this game devolves into any sort of slugfest, I think Philly stands a very good chance of winning. And at least covering 3 points

Tennessee @ New England (-13)

Honestly, if Tennessee even manages to cover this spread, I'll be very dismayed heading into the AFC title game. The Patriots are getting back key players on both offense and defense, and the Titans are legitimately a bad team. Playoff Tom is here, unfortunately, so you can chalk up at least one awful interception. Hopefully he gets it out early 

Jacksonville @ Pittsburgh(-7)

As much as I want Jacksonville to win, I just don't see it happening. The defense would have to play out of its mind at each level for the Jags to have any shot. Granted, while this is possible, it just doesn't seem likely given the talent they're going up against. As for Blake Bortles, just... please exit my life. The Jags with a real QB would probably win the AFC handily this year

New Orleans (+5) @ Minnesota 

This game will certainly be entertaining. While Minnesota definitely has a better chance to win, 5 points is too many for a team that is QB'd by Case Keenum. Also, I can't believe Drew Brees is 39. He carried the offensive load last week, and I won't bet against him doing the same thing again

EDIT: no idea what's going on with the font sizes but fuq it

Edited by chococoke
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On 1/9/2018 at 11:00 PM, Anacybele said:

Oh, I didn't know you knew many people. Don't be such a hardass. You act like I'm just stupid or something.

My apologies. I wasn't trying to be. (I do know many people, but I've read a lot of different opinions around and Kamara is almost a shoo-in for OROY).

I'm actually making it a vow to stay civil with you because of some conversations we've had a while back that I thought about some more. Don't take anything I say as a personal attack unless it's actually blatant.

On 1/9/2018 at 11:00 PM, Anacybele said:

Anyway, Juju's had to do what he did while sharing the load with the Steelers' deep-as-an-ocean recieving group, including the best WR in AB <3 so he ought to at least be a big part of the conversation.

tbh i'm really pissed that juju exists, but 917 on 80 targets/56 receptions and 7 touchdowns is actually not significantly better than Kamara's receiving numbers alone, and Kamara's not a wide receiver.

you should be happy you actually can draft good WRs on the steelers, but Kamara is definitely OROY over Juju.

But trust me, the Saints have had historically a significantly more prolific offense than the Steelers. The Steelers offenses at their peak (2014, by the way) is about as good as this current Saints offense.

Ball spread is in terms of yards and receptions, by the way, not sheer # of targets (because a lot of QBs are high up there if we're strictly speaking receiver diversity). Brees happens to have a lot of effective receivers as opposed to most teams which have 1-2 WRs, 1 TE, 1-2 RBs and then a bunch of people who are below average. Saints have like 1 above average WR, and like 7 average-ish receivers on the other end, as well as 2 stellar running backs. It's different to share the load between Antonio Brown and some other guys that aren't necessarily up there; it's another thing entirely to share the load between 5 other guys and still rip off ridiculously good yardage.

Also re: AFC/NFC awards, typically people refer to the Associated Press' picks when they talk about it. Having that said, I'm not sure who OPOY will be, but supposedly Gurley is leading the MVP talks.

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9 hours ago, chococoke said:

Sounds like Artie avoided major injury. He may not be available Sunday, but it's not like the Jags have much talent at WR (or QB, for that matter) 

That's good. And yeah, I know the Jags don't have much talent those positions, but if we face the Pats in the AFC title game again...yeah, we do not want a bunch of defensive injuries.

I want to see Burns get better though. He showed flashes of potential and has made good plays before. Him and Sean Davis both. Though I say Sean Davis is a bit better. But both are still young guys who have plenty of room to grow. Joe Haden should teach them a thing or two. And man am I glad to have him! He instantly upgraded this squad.

9 hours ago, chococoke said:

Jacksonville @ Pittsburgh(-7)

As much as I want Jacksonville to win, I just don't see it happening. The defense would have to play out of its mind at each level for the Jags to have any shot. Granted, while this is possible, it just doesn't seem likely given the talent they're going up against. As for Blake Bortles, just... please exit my life. The Jags with a real QB would probably win the AFC handily this year

Well, you're smarter than some of those nutjobs on NFL.com! I swear, I don't know what they're thinking sometimes. Bucky Brooks and some other dude both picked the Jags to win and said they'd take Blake Bortles over Ben. I'm like, "WHAT. How does that even make sense?" It's not that I think the Jags have zero chance of winning, but (and no offense to Cynthia) Bortles is blah. Ben is a top 5 future HoF QB! And at 35 he's still ripping people apart. I think he can play another year or two, third SB ring or no. At least Gregg Rosenthal knows what he's talking about. I think it's arguable whether or not to trust Ben over Brady, but he knows Ben's been totally awesome (ranked him at no. 1 on his QB index. Brady was put behind him because Ben had a better second half of the season. The index is based off the most recent games and playoff experience/potential).

Btw, what do your numbers in parenthesis mean again? I forget.

6 hours ago, Lord Raven said:

My apologies. I wasn't trying to be. (I do know many people, but I've read a lot of different opinions around and Kamara is almost a shoo-in for OROY).

I'm actually making it a vow to stay civil with you because of some conversations we've had a while back that I thought about some more. Don't take anything I say as a personal attack unless it's actually blatant.

That's fair. And good to know. I've vowed the same thing, honestly.

7 hours ago, Lord Raven said:

tbh i'm really pissed that juju exists, but 917 on 80 targets/56 receptions and 7 touchdowns is actually not significantly better than Kamara's receiving numbers alone, and Kamara's not a wide receiver.

you should be happy you actually can draft good WRs on the steelers, but Kamara is definitely OROY over Juju.

But trust me, the Saints have had historically a significantly more prolific offense than the Steelers. The Steelers offenses at their peak (2014, by the way) is about as good as this current Saints offense.

Ball spread is in terms of yards and receptions, by the way, not sheer # of targets (because a lot of QBs are high up there if we're strictly speaking receiver diversity). Brees happens to have a lot of effective receivers as opposed to most teams which have 1-2 WRs, 1 TE, 1-2 RBs and then a bunch of people who are below average. Saints have like 1 above average WR, and like 7 average-ish receivers on the other end, as well as 2 stellar running backs. It's different to share the load between Antonio Brown and some other guys that aren't necessarily up there; it's another thing entirely to share the load between 5 other guys and still rip off ridiculously good yardage.

Also re: AFC/NFC awards, typically people refer to the Associated Press' picks when they talk about it. Having that said, I'm not sure who OPOY will be, but supposedly Gurley is leading the MVP talks.

Oh yeah, I'm definitely glad we can draft WRs well. I'm thankful we have Juju!

But we're not talking about history, we're talking about just this season.

Okay, that's more clear. Thank you for explaining. I've never heard Gurley in the MVP talks though. I only hear AB, Russell Wilson, and of course, Brady.

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The numbers in paranthesis indicate the spread. For example, if I were to bet the Steelers -7, I wouldn't win the bet unless the Steelers win by more than 7. However, if I bet the Jags +7, I win the bet if the Jags lose by less than 7 (or win) because the Steelers are favored by 7 points

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17 minutes ago, chococoke said:

The numbers in paranthesis indicate the spread. For example, if I were to bet the Steelers -7, I wouldn't win the bet unless the Steelers win by more than 7. However, if I bet the Jags +7, I win the bet if the Jags lose by less than 7 (or win) because the Steelers are favored by 7 points

Ah, alrighty, I think I get it now.

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1 hour ago, Anacybele said:

Thank you for explaining. I've never heard Gurley in the MVP talks though. I only hear AB, Russell Wilson, and of course, Brady.

Russell Wilson couldn't get his team to the playoffs, that's not going to be MVP. Carson Wentz was the front runner until the ACL tear. Pretty sure Peyton Manning or Brett Favre could win it again this year, given the state of the Colts/Broncos/Packers.

AB is...  a long shot. I don't think a wide receiver has been MVP since like Jerry Rice, and if Jerry Rice or Randy Moss couldn't get in with 20+ TDs in a season then I'm not sure of AB's chances. Not that I'd want him to get it.

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1 hour ago, Lord Raven said:

Russell Wilson couldn't get his team to the playoffs, that's not going to be MVP. Carson Wentz was the front runner until the ACL tear. Pretty sure Peyton Manning or Brett Favre could win it again this year, given the state of the Colts/Broncos/Packers.

True, yeah. I guess that means AB, Brady, and I guess Gurley are the only real candidates. AB getting it would be awesome, he'd be the first ever WR MVP!

EDIT: Actually, no WR has ever been MVP period. That's what I keep hearing anyway.

Edited by Anacybele
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Yeah it feels like if Rice or Moss never won an MVP then Brown definitely won't 

Not to take away from Brown but Moss could do almost everything Brown could (maybe the routes weren't as crisp) but the way he could effortlessly and ruthlessly fuck UP DBs was something else. He was the fastest and quickest motherfucker on the field until he was 33, and Brown had contributed to good offenses but Moss was a cornerstone of legitimately GOAT offenses. The 1998 season should've had him as MVP because of how central he is to coverage and he managed to get an entire division to draft corners for a number of years just to stop him.

He was always the fastest, smartest, and quickest guy on the field and Belichick even said that he's one of the smartest players he's coached.

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40 minutes ago, Lord Raven said:

Yeah it feels like if Rice or Moss never won an MVP then Brown definitely won't 

Not to take away from Brown but Moss could do almost everything Brown could (maybe the routes weren't as crisp) but the way he could effortlessly and ruthlessly fuck UP DBs was something else. He was the fastest and quickest motherfucker on the field until he was 33, and Brown had contributed to good offenses but Moss was a cornerstone of legitimately GOAT offenses. The 1998 season should've had him as MVP because of how central he is to coverage and he managed to get an entire division to draft corners for a number of years just to stop him.

He was always the fastest, smartest, and quickest guy on the field and Belichick even said that he's one of the smartest players he's coached.

Well, didn't Moss have guys like Brady, Peyton, Favre, etc. to compete with? Those guys were huge. That being said, I have heard of Moss and how good he was though, as I see people compare AB to him. So that's still kind of a fair argument.

Never heard of Jerry Rice though. Or maybe I have and just forgot. xP

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Rice is a taller and better version of Antonio Brown. His career records are unreachable and unprecedented and he is the greatest wide receiver of all time. His season that he put up when he was 40 was pretty much the same numbers as an above average #1 receiver which was considered a huge step down from his prime. The 49ers don't win 4 out of their 5 super bowls without him.

Moss lost the MVP to... Favre? That year. I think that was his MVP threepeat. 2007 it was all Brady but that offense and team was historic and Moss/Welker is legitimately one of the deadliest receiver combinations I've seen.

Moss is a far, far different receiver to AB. AB is about crisper routes and yards after the catch; Moss could do that but he was a fiercer blocker and he was often used as a down field threat. The game plan to beating teams with Moss on them was "get to the QB quick" rather than covering Moss because it was futile. Moss was not soft and AB has shown weakness against certain DBs that Moss never did. I can go more into detail about this but I would take Moss over literally every receiver ever and that's including the GOAT Jerry Rice.

Edited by Lord Raven
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13 minutes ago, Lord Raven said:

Rice is a taller and better version of Antonio Brown. His career records are unreachable and unprecedented and he is the greatest wide receiver of all time. His season that he put up when he was 40 was pretty much the same numbers as an above average #1 receiver which was considered a huge step down from his prime. The 49ers don't win 4 out of their 5 super bowls without him.

Moss lost the MVP to... Favre? That year. I think that was his MVP threepeat. 2007 it was all Brady but that offense and team was historic and Moss/Welker is legitimately one of the deadliest receiver combinations I've seen.

Moss is a far, far different receiver to AB. AB is about crisper routes and yards after the catch; Moss could do that but he was a fiercer blocker and he was often used as a down field threat. The game plan to beating teams with Moss on them was "get to the QB quick" rather than covering Moss because it was futile. Moss was not soft and AB has shown weakness against certain DBs that Moss never did. I can go more into detail about this but I would take Moss over literally every receiver ever and that's including the GOAT Jerry Rice.

True, AB does get a chunk of his yards after the catch. :P And I see. I'll just take your word for it since I'd previously not known Jerry Rice. I remember Moss, but I had no idea he played for more than one team. I thought he was with either the Patriots or Broncos.

You gotta remember though, a lot of those really great receivers were tall guys. AB isn't tall and is still freaking good. So even if he's not the literal GOAT, he's certainly among the best.

Edited by Anacybele
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Yeah but these guys weren't better because they were taller, but it is a part of it. Brown's a little more slippery due to his size in open space but Moss and Rice were better at getting open. When I get home I'll talk more about it because they are the GOATs for a reason.

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3 hours ago, Lord Raven said:

Yeah but these guys weren't better because they were taller, but it is a part of it. Brown's a little more slippery due to his size in open space but Moss and Rice were better at getting open. When I get home I'll talk more about it because they are the GOATs for a reason.

Oh yeah, I get that, and I'm not saying AB is a GOAT. Not right now anyway. His career isn't over yet! lol But he HAS set some records, ya know. He's the only WR to go five straight seasons with a certain number of catches or something like that and to go like four or five seasons leading the league in one other category or another. Can't remember what it was for some reason. But stuff like that is why people tend to compare him to guys like Moss or whatever. Just to explain that. I can't say for sure if he's gonna be the next GOAT overall, but he should be the GOAT of Steelers receivers.

I think I get why you say those other guys are GOATs though, so I don't really need that much more explanation. Feel free to go on though, I can't stop you. :P

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Jerry Rice...  Steve Young or Joe Montana, I forget who, said that if they couldn't figure out what was going on they would just chuck the ball where Jerry Rice would be because Jerry Rice ran the most crisp and precise routes of all time. Rice would come down with the ball, to his surprise.

He makes Antonio Brown's route running look like Breshad Perriman.

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Really interesting reading LeVeon Bell's comments about the franchise tag today. Specifically, he would consider retiring if he gets tagged again. That man is going to break the bank next season and I'm excited for it 

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