New Interview with the Devs.

[Luankachu]

This interview kinda frustrates me slightly.

 

"However, the twins are Lords, and while we were designing the game prologue, we wanted those who don’t really play action games to be able to properly play it too, so we wanted to create the right kind of tutorial. In that case, the enemy positions and gameplay experience would change, and it wouldn’t feel right if they would change based on the protagonists’ weapons."

This only explains why they wanted to make them the same weapon, not why they wanted to make them sword users, and it really doesn't explain why Darius is also a sword user. Heck, they could have also made the tutorial also teach about Character Switching so they wouldn't need to change the enemy positions or make us choose which Lord we want before we even experience playing with them.

"Lucina is Chrom’s child, so they have the same swordsmanship, but they will have their own uniqueness in special attacks. But when we were creating their actions, there were talks that we had to definitely change the standing loop animations between them. That’s why although their actions are the same, they have different standing loop animations."

Does that mean that aside from Specials and Standing Loop Animations, Lucina will have the exact same moveset as Chrom? That's a little disappointing.

"And the weapon type is also a big factor. When we lined up the character candidates, we didn’t have enough axe characters"

This is less frustrating and more confusing to me. I can actually think of a lot more Axe users than I can think of Lance users or Bow users. And that's counting Frederick as a Lance user.

"And since we also have the non-mounted and armored Knight that will use a spear, Great Knights shall end up appearing with an axe."

Did they really change Frederick's weapon because of one unit that won't be mounted and won't play even remotely similar?

"There were a lot of Nintendo’s titles out there so I was worried it would get buried (laughs), but I think we could convey that “these characters will be the core main characters of the game”. It’s still just about 20% of the whole contents though."

This is some really good news. I think this means that there will be somewhere between 25 and 40 characters, but I'm worried that they will end up being clones like Lucina seems to be.

{Edit: The spoiler was supposed to end here. For some reason I've been having some issues with the spoiler tags lately}

Don't get me wrong, I'm really excited for this game and I'll definetly buy it as soon as I can (which might take a while since I don't have a N3DS or a Switch) but some design decisions just rub me the wrong way.

Edited August 12, 2017 by Luankachu
I've been having some issues with Spoiler Tags.

[Thane]

19 minutes ago, Luankachu said:

some design decisions just rub me the wrong way.

Intelligent Systems being Intelligent Systems. This usually applies to Nintendo as well, no?

[Luankachu]

1 minute ago, Thane said:

Intelligent Systems being Intelligent Systems. This usually applies to Nintendo as well, no?

True.

[Folt]

20 minutes ago, Luankachu said:

This interview kinda frustrates me slightly.

Spoiler

This only explains why they wanted to make them the same weapon, not why they wanted to make them sword users, and it really doesn't explain why Darius is also a sword user. Heck, they could have also made the tutorial also teach about Character Switching so they wouldn't need to change the enemy positions or make us choose which Lord we want before we even experience playing with them.

 

I can think of a few good reasons for that:

Spoiler

Presumably, they don't want to overload the player with the game's mechanics. There's a lot of mechanics in this game, so introducing them as the player progresses would be better. Presumably, we're going to learn about character switching and why you would want to once we get to Chrom and his gang, since Frederick and Lissa should be good against the probable spike in lance users on the enemy side that have advantage over your chosen MC and Chrom, and then Robin gets introduced so that they get to experience a character who sits outside of the weapon triangle (which is probably why they mentioned that they designed him with that in mind).

I can also give a rather good reason for Darius: He is the twins' mentor so having him wield a sword shows us where the twins got it from.

[Thane]

3 minutes ago, Folt said:

I can think of a few good reasons for that:

Or they could've just, you know, given both twins a lance if they wanted to avoid "overloading" the players with information about the complex rock, paper scissor system.

[Folt]

Just now, Thane said:

Or they could've just, you know, given both twins a lance if they wanted to avoid "overloading" the players with information about the complex rock, paper scissor system.

Yes, but then we would need to change the enemy type for the first few chapters, and sword enemies tend to be on the fast side. I don't think the developers would want a total newb to face enemies too fast for them to handle if they're only just starting out.

[Thane]

2 minutes ago, Folt said:

Yes, but then we would need to change the enemy type for the first few chapters, and sword enemies tend to be on the fast side. I don't think the developers would want a total newb to face enemies too fast for them to handle if they're only just starting out.

I'm pretty sure they can just make the tutorial units a tad slower for those who are just starting out. It feels very silly to say that this is the reason why they gave the new characters swords, given how big a deal they made out of it.

[Folt]

3 minutes ago, Thane said:

I'm pretty sure they can just make the tutorial units a tad slower for those who are just starting out. It feels very silly to say that this is the reason why they gave the new characters swords, given how big a deal they made out of it.

Depends. If they make them too slow, it could end up giving players the wrong impression which would make them take "information" that's unintended and certainly not true.

[Thane]

2 minutes ago, Folt said:

Depends. If they make them too slow, it could end up giving players the wrong impression which would make them take "information" that's unintended and certainly not true.

Dude. It's a tutorial that lasts for a map or two, as opposed to the weapons they'll have for the rest of the game. It'd be like saying all tutorials lie. 

You've got to give the player SOME credit, man.

[Truthblade]

I think its because Swords are seen as the middle ground between axes and lances,, and therefore, the most balanced to use for a tutorial in terms of fighting style.

[The DanMan]

1 hour ago, Thane said:

What makes you so sure 25 is the limit?

It will have the largest roster of a first installment Warriors crossover. The previous record was 18. If they weren't going to at least break 20, there's no reason for them to be so specific in PR. At the same time, creating 30+ characters from the ground up seems very unrealistic. Thus, the mid-20s seems very reasonable.

1 hour ago, Pokechu said:

Not really. We saw 7 characters at E3 and they called that 20%. If the roster size is really 25, then 7 would be more like 28%, closer to 30% than 20%. And if they can make 23 movesets for HW, I don't see why they could only make 2 more for this game and brag about how many characters they put in. The difference of 5 being 20% and 7 being 20% is 10 whole characters. It's falsely hyping people up because there's no reason to use 5 as 20% when we saw 7 characters. I'd be pretty disappointed if they were just making it bigger than what it actually is.

It's marketing. Maybe I'm being a bit cynical, but that's all there is; if there's nearly 30 characters or more, I'll gladly eat my words.

@Luankachu Darius isn't confirmed playable, however. DW itself has some NPCs with unique models; I'd expect him to just be an NPC with Rowan's moveset tacked on. We've also seen that Lucina has her share of differences from Chrom and isn't a pure clone.

[Folt]

1 minute ago, Thane said:

Dude. It's a tutorial that lasts for a map or two, as opposed to the weapons they'll have for the rest of the game. It'd be like saying all tutorials lie. 

You've got to give the player SOME credit, man.

It's implied they intend to tutor the player through at least some of the Awakening-focused stages because they mentioned that they designed Robin with the idea of him being an introduction to characters who don't interact with the WTA. It would also make sense to introduce character switching at around the time where the Shepherds join you to help you out because that ups the amount of playable characters from 1 to 4 which would be an actual good point to introduce stuff that requires multitasking and mark the point where enemies begin to vary their units more.

Cordelia I imagine will be used to teach new players about the unique traits of fliers, since by that point, the player should be pretty knowledgeable in what the weapon triangle does with the Sword, Lance, and Axe.

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Based on the interview, I'm under the impression their hangups on including Lucina were about how players would be expectant of other Gen 2s. "What about Owain?" "What about my wife, Severa?". Furthermore, KT may have been thinking long term about Gen 2s as a major draw for their Fire Emblem Warriors Legends sequel.

#JustWarriorsThings #It'sANewGameNotDLC

[Luankachu]

3 minutes ago, The DanMan said:

@Luankachu Darius isn't confirmed playable, however. DW itself has some NPCs with unique models; I'd expect him to just be an NPC with Rowan's moveset tacked on. We've also seen that Lucina has her share of differences from Chrom and isn't a pure clone.

Even so, I can't imagine them not making Darius playable unless they intend to give him a plotline death or injury before he has an opportunity to join the battle. Since HW was my first and only Warriors game, I'm not really sure how NPCs with unique models work, or if they are common in the Crossover Games.

About Lucina, I didn't know (or didn't remember) that. I haven't seen much gameplay of the game yet so I can't compare their similarities. That's a relief at least.

[The DanMan]

Just now, Luankachu said:

Even so, I can't imagine them not making Darius playable unless they intend to give him a plotline death or injury before he has an opportunity to join the battle. Since HW was my first and only Warriors game, I'm not really sure how NPCs with unique models work, or if they are common in the Crossover Games.

About Lucina, I didn't know (or didn't remember) that. I haven't seen much gameplay of the game yet so I can't compare their similarities. That's a relief at least.

His kingdom has been the enemy force in demos; I and many others expect him to be an antagonist. It should also be noted that the villains in HW weren't originally meant to be playable (hence why they were added in a post-launch update).

[Arthur97]

2 hours ago, Etrurian emperor said:

I could have read over it but I don't recall them giving their thought process. They just said Lucina being a second gen was one of the reasons they considered dropping her without really going into detail as to why being a second gen was a bad thing.

Which is still weird.

[Folt]

2 minutes ago, Luankachu said:

Even so, I can't imagine them not making Darius playable unless they intend to give him a plotline death or injury before he has an opportunity to join the battle. Since HW was my first and only Warriors game, I'm not really sure how NPCs with unique models work, or if they are common in the Crossover Games.

There's another thing that could also justify having Darius as a sword user: The twins, unlike many Lords, have access to healing staves: There could be a point in the tutorial where Darius is injured, forced to fight against a group of axe wielders, and if his HP goes to 0, you fail the mission or get some other disadvantage, so you need to find a way to get to him and restore his HP with your healing staff. Him wielding a sword could potentially stave off damage against the axe wielders so you have more time to get there and rescue him.

[Thane]

18 minutes ago, The DanMan said:

It will have the largest roster of a first installment Warriors crossover. The previous record was 18. If they weren't going to at least break 20, there's no reason for them to be so specific in PR. At the same time, creating 30+ characters from the ground up seems very unrealistic. Thus, the mid-20s seems very reasonable.

Fair enough, but why would they round down so much in this interview, then? Not that Intelligent Systems track record in terms of interviews are particularly stellar, but going "around 20% of the E3 roster" feels like a measurable quantity that can be held against them later on if fans feel like they were lying.

17 minutes ago, Folt said:

It's implied they intend to tutor the player through at least some of the Awakening-focused stages because they mentioned that they designed Robin with the idea of him being an introduction to characters who don't interact with the WTA. It would also make sense to introduce character switching at around the time where the Shepherds join you to help you out because that ups the amount of playable characters from 1 to 4 which would be an actual good point to introduce stuff that requires multitasking and mark the point where enemies begin to vary their units more.

And...why wouldn't this work with two lance wielders? Because you think you'd fight bloody Sonic the Hedgehog on crack in the tutorial?

[Luankachu]

5 minutes ago, The DanMan said:

His kingdom has been the enemy force in demos; I and many others expect him to be an antagonist. It should also be noted that the villains in HW weren't originally meant to be playable (hence why they were added in a post-launch update).

I don't think the demos are a reliable way to tell what is going to happen in the Story Mode. From what I can remember, the Twins were on opposing sides in them. I doubt one of them is going to go traitor but I'd personally love that as a plot twist.

Maybe we'll use him and his army in some paralogues? Maybe he'll betray his country and join Aytolis? Maybe he'll be a Camus? Maybe he'll be an actual villain? Honestly, I think it's too early to tell.

[Folt]

7 minutes ago, Thane said:

And...why wouldn't this work with two lance wielders? Because you think you'd fight bloody Sonic the Hedgehog on crack in the tutorial?

No, but from what we've seen of the Fighter enemy, they have fairly telegraphed attacks compared to the Myrmidons and the Thieves. Enemies who telegraph their attacks and aren't that hard to down (given that the Fighter tends to have only average defence compared to... say, the Knight) would make for the perfect tutorial enemy.

[The DanMan]

19 minutes ago, Thane said:

Fair enough, but why would they round down so much in this interview, then? Not that Intelligent Systems track record in terms of interviews are particularly stellar, but going "around 20% of the E3 roster" feels like a measurable quantity that can be held against them later on if fans feel like they were lying.

The specific quote is "about 20% of content was shown at E3"; that could be counting things such as game modes and stuff. It's a far more vague statement than what most are treating as.

[Thane]

17 minutes ago, Folt said:

No, but from what we've seen of the Fighter enemy, they have fairly telegraphed attacks compared to the Myrmidons and the Thieves. Enemies who telegraph their attacks and aren't that hard to down (given that the Fighter tends to have only average defence compared to... say, the Knight) would make for the perfect tutorial enemy.

And this would be impossible to show on tutorial enemies? I straight up don't get your point.

6 minutes ago, The DanMan said:

The specific quote is "about 20% of content was shown at E3"; that could be counting things such as game modes and stuff. It's a far more vague statement than what most are treating as.

Wait, we saw 20% of the content? Really? Crikey, that's not much.

[NeonZ]

Regarding the roster size, this interview pretty much confirms we're getting clone characters with tweaked moveset, rather than only original movesets like in HWs, so I would expect a pretty big roster, especially with them hyping it up.

3 hours ago, Anacybele said:

Do we know for sure that that's actually part of the story? It looks just like the Awakening cutscene from Arena Ferox, so it could just be there in some side mode as a nod. Besides, what reason would Lucina have to disguise herself in this game?

Chrom's party comes from the beginning of Awakening and Corrin comes from before the split of fates. It's very likely this Lucina also hasn't met Chrom yet, and they'll pretty much reenact their Awakening encounter. They mention redoing dialogue from the existing games in that interview too.

Edited August 12, 2017 by NeonZ

[Folt]

Just now, Thane said:

And this would be impossible to show on tutorial enemies? I straight up don't get your point.

What I'm saying is Myrmidons and Thieves would be naturally speedy. Their attacks wouldn't be as telegraphed because it's inbuilt due to their class.

[Thane]

Just now, Folt said:

What I'm saying is Myrmidons and Thieves would be naturally speedy. Their attacks wouldn't be as telegraphed because it's inbuilt due to their class.

And that's a ludicrous excuse for saying there are too many sword users in the game while giving swords to not one but two new protagonists. Even if this were a set rule, there would be countless ways of remedying this that are much less contrived.