New Interview with the Devs.

[Interdimensional Observer]

1 hour ago, phineas81707 said:

It's mostly just 'hey look, a reference to Kirby Super Star. Hey look, have another one! Ooh, want one to Kirby's Dream Land'? I just don't get it...

I will agree that after TD and PR, they've burned through the nostalgia reserves almost completely. I'd vomit and dare I say possibly skip if the next Kirby game was as overladen with throwbacks as either of these. I mean PR (spoilers for the game)

Spoiler

Had a final boss who went through Zero Two, Nightmare Orb, and NOVA phases. And then for Meta Knightmare Ultra- you have KDL Dark Matter, Queen Sectonia (really? Did Meta Knight really need a chance to fight her?) and Galacta Knight for the third time. Not to mention the soundtrack is overloaded with tracks borrowed from the old Kirby games. Kabula, Ice Dragon and PIX returned too.

TD was better, but not by that much. Less borrowed music, but it still had a lot of old references. Not to say all references are bad- I very much liked the Royal Road Ex Stage scroll at the very end which showed the "evolution" of Kirby from the original KDL to Hypernova.

I want to a Kirby game again that builds itself up without the need for referencing the old way too much. Make a cameo appearance special again.

 

29 minutes ago, phineas81707 said:

Hm, interesting frame data... maybe it'll be a case of how it feels to control, and hopefully she doesn't move like the Great Fairy does- my god, that feels slow, no matter how much you tell me she has the same running speed as anyone else.

Well yeah the Great Fairy looks slower moving than a normal person. The camera angle is different and more zoomed out, and she is much larger than anyone else. If you had a compact car with seating only for two moving at the same speed as a 18 wheeler truck, the car would appear to be moving faster. 

On that note, Horse!Link feels too slow as well. Probably because it moves at the same speed as everyone on foot.

Edited August 13, 2017 by Interdimensional Observer

[bethany81707]

2 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Well yeah the Great Fairy looks slower moving than a normal person. The camera angle is different and more zoomed out, and she is much larger than anyone else. If you had a compact car with seating only for two moving at the same speed as a 18 wheeler truck, the car would appear to be moving faster. 

On that note, Horse!Link feels too slow as well. Probably because it moves at the same speed as everyone on foot.

Yeah, like I said, they aren't slower. They just feel slower, and that kind of works to their detriment.

I'd imagine horses and pegasi would be better implemented here.

[Mysterique Sign]

The comment about the lack of axe users is likely because axes are part of the weapon triangle, so it would be important for gameplay reasons to make sure there were enough of them. Bows, tomes and stones aren't, so their inclusion is less a priority

[Tolvir]

8 hours ago, Jedi said:

Old screenshot but theres no hidden weapons/knives, theres stones though but I mostly assume Dragonstones as neither the Awakening or Fates shapeshifters outside of Dragons got that much popularity.

Maybe daggers will be included under swords. I find it an odd thing not to include though considering Fates, but then again considering SD and Awakening's rogues used swords it might not make sense to split up hidden weapons if only one game's characters will use them. 

Though I am slightly worried this means none of the rogue types will be in. They as a whole were one of the biggest I was hoping for. It would be kind of odd to exclude an entire class type from the game though, rogues have been kind of a mainstay of the series outside of Gaiden.

Edited August 13, 2017 by Tolvir

[Jedi]

2 minutes ago, Tolvir said:

Maybe daggers will be included under swords. I find it an odd thing not to include though considering Fates, but then again considering SD and Awakening's rogues used swords it might not make sense to split up hidden weapons if only one game's characters will use them. 

Though I am slightly worried this means none of the rogue types will be in. They as a whole were one of the biggest I was hoping for. It would be kind of odd to exclude an entire class type from the game though, rogues have been kind of a mainstay of the series outside of Gaiden.

I'd imagine if we get thieves we'll get Gaius & Julian at the minimum and if they throw shuriken under swords for whatever reason Kaze.

[Tolvir]

5 minutes ago, Jedi said:

I'd imagine if we get thieves we'll get Gaius & Julian at the minimum and if they throw shuriken under swords for whatever reason Kaze.

That's what my thoughts were. I can also see Niles considering he was top 10 for favorite male characters in Fates, and wields a bow on top of it.

Edited August 13, 2017 by Tolvir

[Jedi]

23 minutes ago, Tolvir said:

That's what my thoughts were. I can also see Niles considering he was top 10 for favorite male characters in Fates, and wields a bow on top of it.

Oh right Niles, I always forget about him because i'm not very fond of him haha.

[Fireball260]

I still feel like the Twins will be allowed to change weapons with a promotion similar to DQH. 

[Etrurian emperor]

I have a feeling the twin we don't chose will be getting either brainwashed or kidnapped very soon after the choice has been made.

[donkeykhang]

Quote

... those in the same class will end up sharing some similar movements.

Based on this should we expect characters of the same class to be semi-clones/mostly-clones? Perhaps sharing normal attacks but each character has there own number of unique strong attacks and/or special attack(whatever the equivalent term for musou ranbu/attack is for this game).

I suppose this can also be interpreted literally as moving/running/riding animations...

Quote

 Great Knights have the trait of mounting a horse while armored... it was a class that could use three weapon types [in the original game] ... Great Knights shall end up appearing with an axe.

Was it announced somewhere that classes will only be attributed one weapon type or was it individual characters that are given one weapon type? This excerpt here makes it sound like all great knights will use axes (can't help but feel like the only great knights that will appear are Fred and generic officer enemies... unless Walhart is a thing?). This had me wondering about the possibility of classes being restricted to a single weapon type, but it doesn't seem like that is the case since it would be strange for all paladins to end up as sword wielders like Xander. 

[Ertrick36]

@Jedi @Tolvir Ninjas can use swords when they promote, so I would imagine that if the devs did actually implement them in the game, they'd be given swords with shuriken/knives integrated into their moveset like how Lucina has the bow.  Of course, that would mean that they add more sword users, and they would probably be statistically similar to swordmaster/myrmidon-types, so...

And unless servants are given magic for whatever reason, I'm thinking that we'll simply not see any classes that use hidden weapons as their primary.

13 minutes ago, donkeykhang said:

Was it announced somewhere that classes will only be attributed one weapon type or was it individual characters that are given one weapon type? This excerpt here makes it sound like all great knights will use axes (can't help but feel like the only great knights that will appear are Fred and generic officer enemies... unless Walhart is a thing?). This had me wondering about the possibility of classes being restricted to a single weapon type, but it doesn't seem like that is the case since it would be strange for all paladins to end up as sword wielders like Xander. 

I would imagine that they'd make it sort of like the different types of cavaliers in the Tellius games, where there's a cavalier class for each non-magic weapon type.  Though if they're wanting to be consistent, they'd have to give the promoted lance-using cavalier a different name than "Paladin".  Like "Gold Knight", a la Shadows of Valentia.  Or Silver Knight, to invoke memories of Tellius, though that'd probably be saved for bow knights if they're in and have a class to promote to.

[HK Motendra]

There's one thing I want to point attention towards, that apparently hasn't been touched upon:

Quote

Hayashi: Too many characters are in S and A ranks, and a lot more characters are added than usual, so we could no longer add characters from the B rank. That’s why most of the characters had fallen in the battle.

They literally just told us that some characters will have already been, or eventually die

!!!!

[Arthur97]

10 minutes ago, Motendra said:

There's one thing I want to point attention towards, that apparently hasn't been touched upon:

They literally just told us that some characters will have already been, or eventually die

!!!!

That was probably an expression.

[HK Motendra]

Or that....

[BlizzardWolf95]

The rankings of multiple units as S, A, B or C, corresponding to their likeliness never occured to me as a means to judge. 

So I tried my hand at it (apologies for my terrible penmanship). Tried to keep it as far from bias as possible.

[Ertrick36]

1 hour ago, Motendra said:

They literally just told us that some characters will have already been, or eventually die

If they literally meant that... and 'Boro isn't a playable character...

I suddenly feel sick to my stomach.

I am aware that it's almost certainly just a mere expression, but could you imagine them actually killing off, like, 70% of all the characters from these games?

4 minutes ago, BlizzardWolf95 said:

The rankings of multiple units as S, A, B or C, corresponding to their likeliness never occured to me as a means to judge. 

So I tried my hand at it (apologies for my terrible penmanship). Tried to keep it as far from bias as possible.

Wait, Nowi in S rank?  Selena, Subaki, Keaton, Kaden, Hanz, and Effie above Hinoka, Elise, and Sakura?

[Jedi]

I honestly have changed my mind on Hinoka, Sakura & Elise being possibly disregarded. Considering 3 things

A. While less popular than the other nobles they still scored really high 
B. Nintendo & IS's mandates 
C. Their focus on character relationships with each other.

[BlizzardWolf95]

17 minutes ago, Ertrick36 said:

Wait, Nowi in S rank?  Selena, Subaki, Keaton, Kaden, Hanz, and Effie above Hinoka, Elise, and Sakura?

Nowi is up there because there's no other choices that would justify dragonstones being a weapon type, or having it's own section in the inventory, at least that's how I see it. She could be a Tiki clone, but she has a really good shot either way.

Elise and Sakura are more suited as NPCs in my eyes than playables. Hinoka would be a Cordelia clone at best, meanwhile Subaki has a better chance at being playable (in my opinion) as he could fill out the non-royal Hoshido roster (Hinoka could fill her story role well enough just by being an NPC). Effie would probably be Elise's playable proxy, while Subaki is Sakura's. Keaton and Kaden (and Panne) because the stone convoy option could be for beasts as well.

As for Selena? Character connections. Selena, Cordelia and Subaki battle convos would be cash. Hanz just seems like he'd fit as a miniboss.

Edited August 13, 2017 by BlizzardWolf95

[Pokechu]

53 minutes ago, BlizzardWolf95 said:

The rankings of multiple units as S, A, B or C, corresponding to their likeliness never occured to me as a means to judge. 

So I tried my hand at it (apologies for my terrible penmanship). Tried to keep it as far from bias as possible.

Hmm... I think some of your placements are off. Spoilers are S, then A, then B complaints.

 

I love Nowi, but she'd definitely be a C or B tier. She's somewhat popular (10th on the Awakening poll iirc) but that alone isn't noteworthy to send her into S and she'd play very similarly to Tiki. She'd be an easy clone though. I would LOVE to see Nowi but I don't think they're going to go crazy with clones. But who knows, I may be wrong.

I also wouldn't place Walhart or Gangrel in the S tier. They are Awakening villains, but I see the S tier as "omg we would be STUPID to not add these!!!" or "that's so weird... [character] didn't make the cut.... what??" (think not having Mario in Smash). Walhart has his own class (Conqueror) and Gangrel could be a spellblade but I don't think they're that noteworthy to be in the shoo-in tier. Same with Garon and Medeus. I think all villains would be A/B tier. I don't think any villain is a shoo-in really but that's just me.

I don't think we'll be seeing Linde AND Merric but that's just me.

And why is Leo A but Takumi S? Leo won the popularity poll and has his own special weapon too.

 

I'd bump down most of the Fates characters in the A tier to B tier tbh. Save for Oboro.  I don't understand how Subaki is ranked higher than Hinoka. The latter's a royal, same class, and more popular. The beast boys, Effie and Hanz aren't very popular and the latter is kind of irrelevant. You say that Subaki, Selena and Cordelia conversations would be cash but it was revealed the developers are trying to stray away from shipping, etc. in this game. And I don't think it'd be cash if you could just google it.

I think Lon'qu and Gaius would both be B considering they use swords.

 

And now, here is where you got me twisted. The royal girls should all be A. shoot, I'd even push for S. Here's why. I'm very biased though but I don't think the 3 royal girls would be in B.

Elise is one of the most popular Fates characters. She placed 4th in the poll. Elise beat all royals besides Camilla, Leo, Takumi, Xander, and F!Corrin. She's more than semi-popular. Hinoka wasn't far behind with 6th (Ryoma was also 6th) and Sakura was right behind Hinoka with 7th. So already the 3 royal girls beat all of the retainers you put in the A tier besides Oboro. Elise was right behind her. Shoot, Sakura, despite being the lowest-placing royal, beats all of the retainers besides Oboro and Niles (who she ties with). Not to mention how Elise is actually really plot relevant in Birthright onii-chan noooo and all three of them are like the cover characters for their route (along with their other siblings of course). Also, the cutoff point for Fates is Chapter 6 (meaning that's when Rowan/Lianna cross over), all 10 royals are guaranteed an appearance. Retainers join later than that so I don't think they're as likely. Elise and Sakura are clerics and would make some sense as NPCs (but I could def. see them playable) but they have relations to other characters (the other royals) and Lissa's in; she was in the same boat. While the 3 royal girls are not "they're in or the world dies" tier, I wouldn't rank retainers (besides Oboro and I think Oboro would be on the same level as them) above them and I sure wouldn't rank the royal girls with characters like Mozu (optional) and Corrinsexuals. Also, if Camilla is in then it would be very strange to not have Hinoka to counteract her. And if you have 6/8 royal siblings, that too would be strange.... why not add the little sisters?? The royal girls are pretty unique too (why say no to an extra lance, bow, or tome?)

You're pretty much right on who you put in the C tier though lol

Edited August 13, 2017 by Pokechu

[BlizzardWolf95]

@Pokechu that's a lot to respond to...

My reasonings for a lot of it was mostly based on gut feelings as I went through the cast lists, divvying out based on popularity, importance to original story, moveset uniqueness, and weapon typing. 

The only thing I have to say, really, is that Leo is one of the most inneffectual royals in Fate's story (Fates, story? Ha!), at least from what the player sees. Put him in A simply because of popularity and moveset uniqueness. If it was based on anything else, he would've been in B, at least how I see it. I love the kid, but, like Hinoka, Sakura, and Elise, anything he could add to them game (besides his moveset) could be done as an NPC.

Effie is also an Armor. More uniqueness is better than clones. And a playable Elise/Sakura would be clones, or close to, Leo/Takumi (Horse Mage/Archer), just with healing access, which I don't think they'd waste time focusing on. I suspect less than 1/4 of the playable units will even have healing access (Lissa, Linde, Merric, the twins, maybe Caeda or Cordelia?, etc.).

Of course, this is all my own opinion. We'll all see what the game adds in total in a month and a half.

[Arthur97]

2 hours ago, Jedi said:

I honestly have changed my mind on Hinoka, Sakura & Elise being possibly disregarded. Considering 3 things

A. While less popular than the other nobles they still scored really high 
B. Nintendo & IS's mandates 
C. Their focus on character relationships with each other.

You still seem a little salty about that for some reason even though they clearly needed some help with that seeing as they considered dropping a main character for stupid reasons. You always just seem to phrase it in a negative way.

[ChibiToastExplosion]

1 hour ago, Arthur97 said:

You still seem a little salty about that for some reason even though they clearly needed some help with that seeing as they considered dropping a main character for stupid reasons. You always just seem to phrase it in a negative way.

It was Chrom's time to shine. You get fairly salty whenever someone hints that they don't want to ride Lucina like you do.

I'm cool with her inclusion, but I didn't take anything negative from what Jedi said. It is a fact she was mandated in, for better or for worse. You should feel honored (As if Roy/Leif will be that lucky for me, or Ike for others), instead of being real pissy about it.

Edited August 13, 2017 by ChibiToastExplosion

[The DanMan]

1 hour ago, Arthur97 said:

You still seem a little salty about that for some reason even though they clearly needed some help with that seeing as they considered dropping a main character for stupid reasons. You always just seem to phrase it in a negative way.

They considered dropping a side character (she loses most of her relevance after the first act) because she was going to be just another sword user (which was alongside the 2nd gen excuse); the logic was pretty sound. 

These interviews point to IS strongarming a fair bit; when they literally say "we were going to go for characters with unique movesets but IS told us to focus on popularity polls instead", it's hard to give any sympathy.

Just because your favorite character nearly didn't make it in doesn't mean you have to act like this. Most people's favorite characters here were shot down early on; if Lucina didn't make it in, then welcome to the club.

[Hardin]

Saying that NCL or IS strong armed the development team is needlessly inflammatory. Nintendo and IS are the owners of FE, and it's to be expected that they will have input into the development of the game. 

[bethany81707]

I'm only now appreaciating just how few characters up for debate there were in Hyrule Warriors. When debating Majora's Mask representatives, there were four characters, not several.

Also, yeah @Arthur97. You sound really selfish because your favourite made it while ours didn't- and don't think because that's been long established means that's no longer colouring our perspectives.