ThatOneWeakArcher

What mechanics from SoV should be included in FE switch?

Why mechanics from SoV should be included in FE switch?   37 members have voted

  1. 1. Why mechanics from SoV should be included in FE switch?

    • Shrines
      5
    • Arts
      22
    • Villages
      30
    • Spells costing HP
      12
    • Summoners
      9
    • Witches
      2
    • Doubling with 1 more speed
      4
    • Promotion
      10
    • Terrian
      5
    • Shields/rings
      16
    • 2 Routes
      19
    • Forging
      15
    • Skirmishes
      7

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38 posts in this topic

In a very simmlar execution, not just in concept.

Edited by ThatOneWeakArcher

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Villages, definitely.  They worked wonders for bringing Valentia to life.  

Arts and Cast from HP spell lists are also cool and I would not mind seeing them again.  In particular, making status staves not too awesome to use ("here is a staff with three uses you only get one of" just leads to it rotting in inventory forever) while still making them use a "resource" (that being the cleric's health) was a great idea, imo.

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Long range archers. For the first time in the series it felt to me that archers truly had a niche of their own rather then being outclassed by mages in all matters and even having to share their anti flyer gimmick with them if you give the mage certain tomes. 

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turnwheel, bonus experience, fatigue which also affects main story maps and skill system
 

Edited by Reimu Hakurei

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I loved Echoes, and I could say basically anything- I just liked the elements. Even Cantors are nice for training Est and Sonya.

I wound up skipping things like Skirmishes, though. Especially the ones that can ambush you and force you to deploy everyone with no regard to formation.

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Arts are basically an improved offensive skill system that fixes the broken aspects, so they should definitely come back.

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I think few people would object to villages returning. A place to chat up both major and minor characters to hear their thoughts on the current conflict and their backstories does wonders for the cast. Not only that, but it allows you to get a glimpse into the everyday life of that world, something we've needed more of ever since Tellius.

Arts might need some tweaks, but I'd like to see that return. However, I'm not sure it should completely substitute skills, as I had the issue of some characters feeling more like their weapons rather than their own character when plaing through Echoes. 

Unique spell lists is a great idea but it needs a major rehaul. I prefer it over tomes, unless they can make tomes more unique, but making Excalibur the best offensive spell to use 9/10 times while Aura gathers dust isn't fun for anyone.

I'd love to see dual protagonists again, but perhaps done in a different way. It allows for more different stories than we're used to in the series, and that's an approach I wouldn't mind them taking for the next installment. I've suggested it before, but playing as one protagonist who eventually becomes an antagonist for the second protagonist would be sweet as hell if they could pull it off.

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What I enjoyed in echoes was the minor details: all the quips that characters make when  a nearby ally defeated an enemy, the flash by Alm or Celica does when the player phases starts. I like how the game both complemented Alm and Celica story without shafting one of them, and how both armies were balanced  power wise to each other( take notes IS for the Radiant Dawn remake). I enjoyed Memory Prisms because it told backstory of certain characters without exposition, and leaving motivations without guessing. And finally, the villages,I enjoyed the idea, because what bothered me about most Fire Emblem games is how the average person live; with was answered. All and all, I see Echoes as an experiment, for the next game. To see whats works, and what doesn't.

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The turnwheel, no question. Have that replace the split between Classic and Casual modes.

I'm also a fan of base conversations and memory prisms, but in SoV's case, those came as a complement to the small support system, which I don't think people generally liked. There should be a lot to learn about the cast of characters, but the player doesn't need to be rewarded with bonuses for each piece of info. The dialogue itself was always the ultimate reward.

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Where the hell is my turnwheel option? Hands down the best thing about the game that truly bridged the gap between classic and casual. Should have been done this way in the first place. I don't care if it's story significant or not, just leave it in as a mechanic and keep its charges at 3 so it's not nearly as busted and bang you've fixed one of FE's most troubling gameplay identity problems that has stuck around for way too long.

Another thing? I adored how attentive to detail SoV was, especially involving alternate dialogue. The more of that kind of thing there is the better. And on that note, holy frick I never realized how much I wanted fully VA'd FE until SoV, it does so much for the game it's unreal.

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Echoes was a great time for me, so I'd like to see it's influence in the next game.

Arts (or skills in general) would nice to see return. I'm playing through Path of Radiance at the moment and the option to give units skills via scrolls is a good for giving the player the choice of how to customize their units. I'd also be happy with other takes on the system, old or new.

Villages were a nice break from combat and helped to flesh out your party members with extra dialogue and the world in general. I'd love to see these return and be expanded upon.

While I'm not sure if I want to see spells cost hp again, having spells be tied to mages and earned by leveling up feels more natural to me compared to having to use tomes.

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  • I really loved the villages in Echoes. It made the world feel truly alive. I would like to see them return.
  • On that note, i'd like to see dungeons be brought back. It added a nice change of pace to the game.
  • Unique spell lists and HP Magic Cost was great. It made Mages feel more unique.
  • Terrain in SoV felt like the only time terrain actually mattered in the series. Add in the fact that magic ignores terrain, you strike a nice balance between wanting to use physical and magic classes.
  • The Turnwheel is an absolute must for future games. The perfect compromise between veteran and casual players.
  • Two routes would be nice to have.
  • Archers and their 1-5 range. One of the few times Archers were actually good in the series. This is how Archers should've been from the start tbh.
  • Arts should return as well. Being able to use them at will in exchange for HP is better than praying that a Skill activates by chance.
  • I liked how promotion was handheld in SoV and would like to see that return.
  • In most games, to double, you need 5 more spd. In SoV, you need just 1 more spd. I'd like to see a compromise. 5 feels too much and 1 feels to little. So how about having 3 more spd=doubling the opponent? I think that's fair.
  • I'm always a fan of dual protagonists. Preferably, it should be done the way SoV did it, as in, you can switch between both routes at any time, as opposed to being temporarily locked to one like in Sacred Stones.

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2 hours ago, Glennstavos said:

The turnwheel, no question. Have that replace the split between Classic and Casual modes.

I feel like the Turnwheel would need an overhaul though. Echoes was very, very generous with how many times you could turn back time, and how far back you could go. 

It was a great addition, but it sort of trivialized a lot of things.

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Villages should definitely return. They were good for breaking up the action and really helped with world building. Combat Arts were a good substitute for skills that gave the player more control and avoided some annoying situations with skills. Dungeons were a nice change of pace and generally had good atmosphere, but hopefully they would be expanded upon in FE Switch. Mages learning different spells as they leveled up helped characters to feel more unique; magic costing HP to use also adds some strategic depth as you have to consider how much HP a unit will lose by counterattacking. Summoners could return. They essentially act like reinforcements from the other games, and being able to get rid of all summoned units simply by defeating the summoner made dealing with them not too much of a hassle. I wouldn't want Witches to return. They weren't hard to beat, but the idea that a unit could warp to anywhere on the map stressed me out. Archers felt really useful in this game compared to other games, so I would want that to return. I also really liked the item system in this game. When I first learned about the system, I wasn't sure that it wouldn't work well. However, rings and shields added a lot of depth and made this very enjoyable, and I hope that a similar system is used in future games.

 

EDIT: I forgot to add that I really liked having two routes and would want it to return. It was nice having some freedom in deciding which part of the game to continue, and I found managing two different groups very fun.

Edited by CriticalMiss

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Villages would be a great thing to return. It can really add to the world of the next game.

I liked Combat Arts. Interesting idea even though it's execution wasnt exactly the best. I think with some tweaks it could add a lot to the weapon skill system, which in my opinion has been in need of some overhauls for a while now.

I really liked the spells in Echoes/Gaiden. It took a much more RPG like approach with them, and I think it works well for Fire Emblem. I think having some unique spells gained through levels can add a lot to the series.

I really liked how SoV had characters talking mid battle. Commenting on others crits or when one is low on HP. I also liked them actually reacting to one of them dying. That needs to return.

I really liked dungeons. They might have not been the best execution, but considering IS hasnt had a lot of experience with dungeons, it can be excused. I would love for this to come back, along with being able to actually explore the world outside of just battles and map view. Having a third person view of the main lord and exploring the dungeons was great, adding this to the idea of villages and towns would be great.

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Would like to see back in some form:

-Spells and arts costing HP: Great way to balance these. As mentioned, it's a lot more fun to choose an art instead of hoping for a % chance a skill activates. Not to say the Awakening/Tellius skill system was all bad, though; many things are still better done through a skill system. But no reason you can't have both.

-Archers not being 2 range only. Yes please.

-Multiple protagonists. I'm always down for this.

-Villages, sure. I never really thought of them as a big selling point playing this game, but the way they were done was still pretty solid and I think they'd add considerably more if IntSys ever figures out how to do good setting work.


Would like to see back, but modified:

-The turnwheel. The Echoes turnwheel is very generous, but honestly that's because it's a bit of a band-aid to some of Echoes' more questionable elements: teleporting witches, 1-RN accuracy woes, etc. I'd like to see the next game more tightly designed like Fates was, but the turnwheel is still a nice idea; I would just limit it more.


Don't want to see back:

-One inventory slot. Choosing what weapon to equip and counter with is a big part of FE, Echoes not having this is to its detriment.

-Doubling with a 1 speed difference: it's okay, but too swingy. Go back to 4 or 5.

-Dungeons. They don't fit with FE's style of combat very well. Procedurally generated FE fights got old fast, and even the relatively quick ones break up dungeon progression more than they usuaully do in JRPGs.

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4 hours ago, Thane said:

I feel like the Turnwheel would need an overhaul though. Echoes was very, very generous with how many times you could turn back time, and how far back you could go. 

It was a great addition, but it sort of trivialized a lot of things.

Well yeah, I want the turnwheel to come back. But I didn't say "And make sure I can use it ten times in a map as well". That's ridiculous, not Casual mode ridiculous, but it's up there. I dunno a hard number of retries a player should be allowed. What's important is that the player makes a mistake and works to correct it. Playing the game on casual mode, you are never given incentive to improve. Take your level 7 Lon'qu to the final chapter, put your healers on the front lines, all bad ideas, all viable. As a teacher, it boggles the mind they would have a mode where the player is allowed to learn nothing and still succeed.

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1 minute ago, Glennstavos said:

Well yeah, I want the turnwheel to come back. But I didn't say "And make sure I can use it ten times in a map as well". That's ridiculous, not Casual mode ridiculous, but it's up there. I dunno a hard number of retries a player should be allowed. What's important is that the player makes a mistake and works to correct it. Playing the game on casual mode, you are never given incentive to improve. Take your level 7 Lon'qu to the final chapter, put your healers on the front lines, all bad ideas, all viable. As a teacher, it boggles the mind they would have a mode where the player is allowed to learn nothing and still succeed.

Pretty sure you're blowing things completely out of proportions, my dude. Most chaps want to get better at the game, but feel stressed out over something so serious as permadeath. Nothing wrong with an optional mode for newcomers.

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5 minutes ago, Thane said:

Pretty sure you're blowing things completely out of proportions, my dude. Most chaps want to get better at the game, but feel stressed out over something so serious as permadeath. Nothing wrong with an optional mode for newcomers.

The turn wheel does not accomplish the same safety net? What possible boon does Casual mode provide exclusively? I don't know about you or "most chaps" but when I play a new game, I hate the idea of training wheels. Especially when the training wheels can't be taken off without restarting the game. I want to learn the game's systems and play on the same settings as everybody else. The turnwheel is not a permanent choice at the beginning of the game, you can restrict yourself to never using it, you can break down and use it to avoid not having to repeat an hour of gameplay. Maybe keep Casual mode but all it changes is giving you three times the turnwheel uses or something.

Edited by Glennstavos

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Just now, Glennstavos said:

The turn wheel does not accomplish the same safety net?

Hm? I don't know, I never considered it. I didn't know we were comparing modes.

1 minute ago, Glennstavos said:

I don't know about you or "most chaps" but when I play a new game, I hate the idea of training wheels.

Cool. Many don't.

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Why isn't long-range archers an option? And what about the turnwheel? Those were both really good things...

Honestly, while summoners are great as a concept, in practice they artificially inflate a chapter's difficulty without actually making it a more enjoyable challenge. If summoners return, they would have to be refined.

 

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2 hours ago, Glennstavos said:

Well yeah, I want the turnwheel to come back. But I didn't say "And make sure I can use it ten times in a map as well". That's ridiculous, not Casual mode ridiculous, but it's up there. I dunno a hard number of retries a player should be allowed. What's important is that the player makes a mistake and works to correct it. Playing the game on casual mode, you are never given incentive to improve. Take your level 7 Lon'qu to the final chapter, put your healers on the front lines, all bad ideas, all viable. As a teacher, it boggles the mind they would have a mode where the player is allowed to learn nothing and still succeed.

What game are you playing? Because that's certainly not Echoes.

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15 hours ago, Glennstavos said:

Take your level 7 Lon'qu to the final chapter, put your healers on the front lines, all bad ideas, all viable.

This is a gross exaggeration about what's doable in Casual, and I don't even like playing casual myself.  Putting a healer in the front row and letting them die will gimp you out of a very valuable resource for the remainder of the map, it's still a bad idea that still punishes you, not as harshly as Classic, sure, but that doesn't mean it's a viable decision.  The Level 7 Lon'qu in the final chapter is basically a waste of deployment slot that could have gone to something else, on both Classic and Casual modes, the consequences of doing so are literally the same too since it's the final chapter and you can't save after the credits in Awakening from what I remember.  

Edited by Glaceon Mage

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3 hours ago, Glaceon Mage said:

This is a gross exaggeration about what's doable in Casual, and I don't even like playing casual myself.  Putting a healer in the front row and letting them die will gimp you out of a very valuable resource for the remainder of the map, it's still a bad idea that still punishes you, not as harshly as Classic, sure, but that doesn't mean it's a viable decision.  The Level 7 Lon'qu in the final chapter is basically a waste of deployment slot that could have gone to something else, on both Classic and Casual modes, the consequences of doing so are literally the same too since it's the final chapter and you can't save after the credits in Awakening from what I remember.  

 

16 hours ago, phineas81707 said:

What game are you playing? Because that's certainly not Echoes.

Neither of you understood the point of that bit. They're both bad ideas, and those units will get killed. The player on casual mode keeps making these mistakes because they fail to see them as mistakes. After all, they've been winning every chapter and not losing their units permanently.

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13 minutes ago, Glennstavos said:

The player on casual mode keeps making these mistakes because they fail to see them as mistakes.

You don't think that's a bit of an oversimplification and generalization there, buddy? 

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