What mechanics from SoV should be included in FE switch?

[Espinosa]

Arts are pretty neat, as is the system of base stats greatly improving on promotion (so should weapon ranks though). 

I also really enjoy having unlimited use Warp and Rescue beginning with the very early period. 

[Harvey]

Where's the turnwheel in the poll? I thought that was one of the main things in Echoes that differentiates the other games unless I'm mistaken...

Well yeah, while probably obvious, I'd like the turnwheel back. This way, they won't have to add save states while at the same time, veteran gamers can find future experiences less frustrating which means even if maps are long, having a turnwheel kinda eases that pain of lost progress.

But really...Echoes with the exception of the Turnwheel and lack of marriage as well as the overall presentation and no weapon durability is pretty much identical to that of Awakening so I don't see how Nintendo would look at Echoes when they will obviously look at Awakening in the long run.

 

[Nobody]

Where's the "none of them" option?

Those mechanics work well within SoV, but IMO don't really go well with most of the series. They should keep them on SoV.

I guess 2 routes and forging would be acceptable, but those are hardly SoV's exclusives (though I wouldn't like the forging to be like SoV's. It should be like FE12's, if it were to reappear).

Edited September 4, 2017 by Nobody

[Michelaar]

NONE. Please. The thing I hated about SOV was it's gameplay. Leave. Them. Out.

[SavageVolug]

I would like to see at least some of SOV's elements return again, a lot of it reminded me of aspects that you would see in a RPG game which I enjoyed. For instance how magic works, the existence or rings that can be equipped which have different effects, the need to visit a Shrine in order to promote, how the world map is structured etc. are all very similar to what you would see in an RPG game which I enjoyed experiencing. Frankly I think there is a place for RPG elements in Fire Emblem however I also believe that caution is advised as just because X element is an RPG mechanic does not mean it needs to be included. The primary elements I would like to see would be Town Exploration/Dungeon Crawling, Equippable Rings or Shields and the Promotion System I would like to add though that I am hoping the next game has a Restart Map option that you can select if you make a mistake or lose somebody.

[Armagon]

19 hours ago, Nobody said:

Those mechanics work well within SoV, but IMO don't really go well with most of the series.

I can think of a few mechanics that would work outside of SoV. Arts, Villages, and the Turnwheel to name a few. Though stuff like Terrain wouldn't work since it was built around the one weapon system and Magic nullifying terrain effects.

There's always the possibility of reworking some of these mechanics to better fit whatever game their in.

11 hours ago, Michelaar said:

NONE. Please. The thing I hated about SOV was it's gameplay. Leave. Them. Out.

Even the Turnwheel, Villages and Arts?

Edited September 5, 2017 by Armagon

[Michelaar]

4 hours ago, Armagon said:

Even the Turnwheel, Villages and Arts?

Arts, yes. I didnt care about villages that much. Turnwheel is fine.

[blah the Prussian]

So, the really good idea in Echoes that I don't see talked about much is roaming enemy units. This adds a more strategic element to the game; do you go back, but have the enemy seize some defensible castle, or do you lure the enemy to more favorable terrain? I would advocate for all non siege battles to be handled this way; really large armies following you, and a big part of gameplay being scouting out maps. This would make FE more of an SRPG and less of a TRPG.

[Jotari]

4 hours ago, blah the Prussian said:

So, the really good idea in Echoes that I don't see talked about much is roaming enemy units. This adds a more strategic element to the game; do you go back, but have the enemy seize some defensible castle, or do you lure the enemy to more favorable terrain? I would advocate for all non siege battles to be handled this way; really large armies following you, and a big part of gameplay being scouting out maps. This would make FE more of an SRPG and less of a TRPG.

I agree. But I'd like future world maps to be slightly less linear than Gaiden's was. Aside from Celica''s chapter 3 (which features the off shoot of Grieth's Citadel) there's not a whole lot of strategy when it comes to luring enemies around the place since you're options are to charge straight through or run away and wait for them to follow you. Even if the occasional chapter was slightly off the main branch would help. Like if the deliverance hide out was two maps away from the road to the Sofia Palace rather than basically being right beside it. A less linear map would also make the world feel...well less like a video game. Gaiden's map is laid out in a way that all challenges inexplicably increase as you move northwards and Alm/Celica are strangely never at all required to head west or east to reach their respective goals..

Edited September 5, 2017 by Jotari

[Dragonage2ftw]

Nothing.

[Kazuya]

All of it, in fact just remake Gaiden again

[L'arachel]

What I want more than anything is that all landed attacks do at least 1 damage

[blah the Prussian]

19 hours ago, Jotari said:

I agree. But I'd like future world maps to be slightly less linear than Gaiden's was. Aside from Celica''s chapter 3 (which features the off shoot of Grieth's Citadel) there's not a whole lot of strategy when it comes to luring enemies around the place since you're options are to charge straight through or run away and wait for them to follow you. Even if the occasional chapter was slightly off the main branch would help. Like if the deliverance hide out was two maps away from the road to the Sofia Palace rather than basically being right beside it. A less linear map would also make the world feel...well less like a video game. Gaiden's map is laid out in a way that all challenges inexplicably increase as you move northwards and Alm/Celica are strangely never at all required to head west or east to reach their respective goals..

Oh, definitely; I'd also advocate for diversity of objectives based on this. Like, you have the heroes need to beat Army A, who has some Princess captive, and Army B, who is trying to take the castle. If you take too long to beat Army A, Army B will take the castle, and what would have been a normal battle is now a siege mission.

[Interdimensional Observer]

While I liked the villages in SoV, there are a couple changes I want made:

One- give the villages names, all too often places in FE go without proper names, even capital cities.

Two- owing to the fidelity of the remake, SoV didn't let us explore the capitals of Rigel or Zofia, all we get to visit are boondocks, castles, and fortresses- no in betweens. I'd sign a Blood Pact cursing the entire world if it like me walk around Melior, Nevassa and Sienne.

 

On HP consuming Arts and Spells- make them a special set of command skills, apart from passive and procs, and traditional tome/staff magic. 

Shields and Rings were probably the best use of non-weapon equipment in their very short history in FE yet, bring them back for sure.

 

Do include class stat minimums for promotion (it helps combat stat screwage), but arrange it so that if a unit exceeds the minimum they get a fixed stat increase too.

 

The Forging system was opaque in SoV- unusual because FE is generally clear about things, but sure, bring it back. It's the best incarnation yet.

 

If summoners should be brought back- nerf them by limiting the number of times they can do across the whole game (via rare and limited staffs) or in a given battle.

[Thinks Their Own Way]

The ones that were in other games already like: promotions, skirmishes, etc... but not do them in the way that Echoes does it; screw it do nothing like Echoes ever again I can't fathom why would want any of this again. It's a game that goes out of it's way to make everything as tedious as possible for no reason.

[NoirCore]

I think the Villager mechanics are interesting mechanics to bring back. I think the villager trees allow for some more variety in gameplay strategies in concept. I'm not the best to ask about the best execution, though.

[Flygunn]

I believe people are overlooking the possibilities behind the 1 speed double, we could have a skill that replaces a unit's standard doubling calculations for Pursuit calculations.  This skill will be useful against equal speed tier units only because units with a speed of four less or equal/more won't be affected.  Furthermore, if the advantage it gains against those with a relative speed of -1/-2/-3 is too much, it can be balanced by making opponents also need only +1 relative spd to double.

I for one do not believe the using health for spells mechanic should return in FE16.  My reasoning is that the golden mean of how to make you value how you use your mages and not making them semi-obsolete might not even exist.  In SoV, health cost was an in-game version of fatigue for me, it was there, and if you act excessively, it will be noticeable, however it is far too easily avoidable.  With the fatigue mechanic, anyone who plays the game in a no-grind manner is unaffected by fatigue due to the many foods, shrines, and lack of opportunities to gain fatigue.  Therefore, in difficult playthroughs, it might as well not be there, and in laid back playthroughs, it is only somewhat obnoxious.  In comparison, health cost was similar, you would only ever be affected by it if a mage was not given a recovery item (highly recommended) AND strayed too far from a healer, refresher, or wall.  I never had to do a risky maneuver with health-cost like I would with many other mechanics and tactics, I never lost a mage due to it, and I never had to change my course of actions because of it beyond choosing to pseudo-bench certain spells.  That being said, it is one of my favourite implementations of utility magic.  When I did a no type effectiveness run, the strategy behind beating the necrodragon isle without seraphim was a ton of fun, just making sure that my Genny could spawn ghost fodder, heal itself, and stay out of the way of the necrodragons without dooming my healerless squishies was amusing.  Essentially, yes to certain game-changing abilities that can place my units into unfavourable positions for a certain amount of time, no to a "take a little bit of damage when OHKO-ing, heal it all off next turn."  Because honestly, adding a health-cost means making something more powerful, and if the health cost is returned by equipping items you would have used without the recovery, that just means busted magic.  The health-cost mechanic also prevents the game from forcing you to do a long drawn out standstill/survival with limited access to healers because your squishies are hurting themselves.  Of course, this is still just mostly hypothetical material, there are definitely ways to make health-cost a perfectly balanced mechanic for offensive spells.  

Arts are a great idea, but we cannot get too carried away with limited selection weapons, having Setsuna be less viable in all situations than Takumi is not desirable for roster diversity.  It did however make a great excuse for players to continue using first gen units despite the overwhelming second gens (for playthroughs where you have the luxoury of having all child unit teams), but I highly doubt IS wants to shove another second-gen mechanic into the game unless it is handled similarly to FE4.  The goal of these arts should be to make each character more unique, but not just the carrier of their godly weapon, and to promote a wider range of viable weapons without making the choice of weaponry irrelevant in a similar way to fe7's magic system without making a few tomes overstay their welcome (looking at you luna).  

My standpoint on the villager debate is only two-five (or more depending on army size) should be allowed because it can make a character lose its worth.  Lukas was the soldier/knight, it complimented his character and how I saw him as a unit, however Grey never had an identity for me in that regard.  He always appeared more vague than Lukas's clear soldier/knight image because I could never definitely sort him into a class of his own.  For a wide range of units to have this, it could lose the units' characterization and image.  Furthermore, as mentioned by others, in larger quantities, it really messes with the game balance.

The time wheel I love the idea of, but in some ways it detracts from gameplay.  In FE4, if Sigurd started with an iron sword and did not get a silver sword from Arvis, he would still be perfectly viable, however, if given the option, I am taking that silver sword in most playthroughs because a trpg is not typically a make your army weak for more difficulty but a make your army strong for more progress.  By adding that turn wheel, how I play maps is changed, if a character dies, I won't think "noooooo, now I have to choose whether to press on or reset", I immediately decide whether the character died due to RNG or my poor tactics and from there if I should be allowed to save the unit.  That being said, if only two charges are given per every 1/2 map/chapter, I will be especially thankful for it.  It is a great way to keep the hardcore tactics while not forcing you to repeat a four hour Jugdral map because you accidentally pressed wait on your favourite character while they are in danger.  Furthermore, it is the best way I can think of to bring casual players into the meat of classic Fire Emblem without scaring them off.  That does not mean I believe casual should be removed however, it is great for marketing and has brought many new fans to the series despite my gripes with it making a few anti-FE core strategies viable such as suiciding your best unit to train lower units or pegasus kamikazes.

[X-Naut]

I've fully fleshed out my thoughts on a reasonable way to give archers improved range without it being too ridiculous:

Long-range: Increment the range bonuses. Most bows are still 2-range, but you can improve it in various ways:
-Curved Shot returns as an Art that can be learned both by characters as a skill and through certain bows themselves.
-Longbows have innate 2~3 range and are usable by infantry. Curved Shot is available as an innate Art.
-Snipers (or whatever class gets bow-locked) gets +1 range as a class-innate skill or trait. I'll stick with Sniper for now.

In total you can get up to 4-range (5 for Snipers) on infantry at the cost of doubling, dropping to 3 or 4 if you opt out of Curved Shots. Snipers can still 3-range you with ordinary bows for no penalty, and any bow user (even the bow knights) with the Curved Shot skill can pull a 3-range when needed.

Short-range: Introduce Point-Blank as a skill innate to bows that don't have extended range, which functions like Close Counter in Heroes. The caveats are that you cannot follow-up, your effectiveness modifier is weakened or null and of course you cannot initiate at 1-range.

That's the best I can come up with while giving fliers a fair chance to fight back. A Hit penalty is arguable but it's a lazy solution that encourages RNG abuse :p Also gives the devs a way to pick and choose who can counter at close-range by opting not to unlock the weapon skill for certain mooks, even if everything past the tutorials should on higher difficulties.

[bethany81707]

3 hours ago, X-Naut said:

That's the best I can come up with while giving fliers a fair chance to fight back. A Hit penalty is arguable but it's a lazy solution that encourages RNG abuse :p Also gives the devs a way to pick and choose who can counter at close-range by opting not to unlock the weapon skill for certain mooks, even if everything past the tutorials should on higher difficulties.

Nothing I've read here has made them seem like a threat to player fliers.

[Shogus00]

Archers. Never used em more than in SoV. Villages are also a given, as it was great to just be able to chill with your characters and stuff. I also liked the shrine method of class progression. Maybe I'm weird but it seemed cool. I'd also like a big map with off shoots and stuff, and I liked the dungeons. They may have tedious at times but it added a great sense of exploration to the game. 

[wissenschaft]

On 8/12/2017 at 9:49 AM, Etrurian emperor said:

Long range archers. For the first time in the series it felt to me that archers truly had a niche of their own rather then being outclassed by mages in all matters and even having to share their anti flyer gimmick with them if you give the mage certain tomes. 

Oddly enough in Fates, Archer's like Mozu could be far more effective than any mage but thats mostly do to the stats of most mages in Fates. The GBA games had a 3 range bow but Archers had such low base stats and growths (especially STR)  that it was pointless to use.

3+ range would be nice for archers but more than anything else we need archers with good bases + growths. 

Edited October 14, 2017 by wissenschaft

[seacanary]

If they brought back villages, i'd really like free roam in there akin to the dungeons! I feel like that would really make whatever world we get into feel more alive. 

[Azz]

I like the promotions, rings/shields, forging and skirmishes from SoV. I just like the promotions in SoV in general cause they are linear. Rings and shield should be a staple in every FE game (Just give us an accessory slot IS). Forging I think worked best here and I think being able to upgrade weapons was very satisfying. Skirmishes are just nice to have (But make them skipable so you don't have to battle them every time you want to pass through).

I wasn't a big fan of arts tbh, I kinda still prefer characters just having skills that are either personal to them or class based (a.k.a GotHW). Villages, spells, the route split and shrines only really work with a game like SoV. Cantors and witches can burn.

[Captain Vulgar]

It's not in the poll, and it's not so much a mechanic, but I'd like if characters would retain their colors schemes. I thought it was a great touch when changing classes.

As for what's on the poll; I'd love for shields and rings to return.

[Mackc2]

I don't think its in the poll but I loved the alternate "bad endings" when certain character died