ThatOneWeakArcher

What mechanics from SoV should be included in FE switch?

Why mechanics from SoV should be included in FE switch?   48 members have voted

  1. 1. Why mechanics from SoV should be included in FE switch?

    • Shrines
      6
    • Arts
      29
    • Villages
      37
    • Spells costing HP
      13
    • Summoners
      11
    • Witches
      4
    • Doubling with 1 more speed
      5
    • Promotion
      11
    • Terrian
      5
    • Shields/rings
      18
    • 2 Routes
      23
    • Forging
      17
    • Skirmishes
      10

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47 posts in this topic

As a playable class, it would be nice to see witches come back.

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1 hour ago, Glennstavos said:

Neither of you understood the point of that bit. They're both bad ideas, and those units will get killed. The player on casual mode keeps making these mistakes because they fail to see them as mistakes. After all, they've been winning every chapter and not losing their units permanently.

I'm fairly confident anyone with half a brain knows that being unable to use your healer for the remainder of the map is a bad thing, and that deploying a level 7 Lon'qu in the final chapter is a waste of deployment.  I would imagine that "this unit fell" is still a mistake in the eyes of a casual mode player and letting the unit fall is antiproductive on both Classic and casual..

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Going down that list:

  • No to shrines because it was annoying having to hold off on promoting someone, and then have to run past multiple enemies just because only this one special place can give somebody more armor/a horse.
  • I like the idea of arts, but hate how they are tied to the weapons and have to be relearned by every character that holds it.
  • Yes please to villages. They were a nice breather in between the action, and I loved talking to everybody and tapping on every little thing to see what Alm and Celica had to say about it. The base conversations were also amazing for fleshing out the characters themselves.
  • Not a fan of spells costing HP. It was well implemented in SoV and I didn't mind it all there, but I wouldn't want it to be the way magic was done from here on out.
  • Hahahahaha no. They aren't even good for grinding.
  • As long as they nerf where they can warp too, and the area shows up just like stave effects do when you toggle on the danger area. They were a cool idea for an enemy and it is surprising that they weren't included in some of the other games where sacrifices where a thing. They would have felt right at home with the Grimleal at any rate.
  • Sure why not. I don't really care about this one much one way or the other.
  • I really liked third tier promotions and would like this to return in future games if they can make it work.
  • No. Some of the terrain effects were way too much, and made fighting some enemies annoying until my mages arrived.
  • Only if we have more then one inventory slot, or weapons don't take up an inventory slot. I didn't use most rings or shields because putting a weapon on a unit was the better option the majority of the time. They just sat there until I started selling some of them off because I knew I wasn't going to use all of them.
  • Yes! I feel like we can learn so much more about the world when we get it from two people who have different views on what is going on, and what their differing objectives are.
  • No. I didn't mind forging until I realized I either had to look up what every weapon can be forged or gamble with my gold coins. I think that if they want to bring back this type of forging again they should just make it transparent what weapon you are going to get from it. That having been said I think this type of forging only works in SoV because they don't have a dedicated weapon shop. In a game were they have one I don't see why the majority of the advanced weaponry can't just be bought (steel, silver, and killer variations for instance). I guess it could be used to create the most powerful weapons in the game?
  • I'm the kind of person that like having the opportunity to grind whenever possible, but some of these skirmishes were so annoying. I hated how if I backtracked even a little bit just to finish a subquest a dragon or a witch would be waiting for me in the later parts of the game, and I'd have to fight them or I can't get past. This isn't even mentioning how they will follow you until you reach a certain point.

Honorable mentions go to the turnwheel and subquests. I loved the idea of the turnwheel and really hope they bring it back next game, but with a lot fewer refreshes. I think the only reason they had so many this time around was because of the post game dungeon. I also loved the idea of subquests. They fleshed out the world a little bit and gave some of the villagers a role outside of just remarking about what happened.

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On 8/12/2017 at 1:47 PM, Thane said:

I feel like the Turnwheel would need an overhaul though. Echoes was very, very generous with how many times you could turn back time, and how far back you could go. 

It was a great addition, but it sort of trivialized a lot of things.

I actually broke it during the final level. Took too long and it stopped working.

Am I really the only one who didn't like HP sucking mages or artes? I guess I just prefer the more traditional style. And if they do make dungeons return, they definitely could use a tweak. Though I honestly doubt that much will carry over from this one since i don't think much carried over from Gaiden the first time.

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43 minutes ago, Arthur97 said:

I actually broke it during the final level. Took too long and it stopped working.

Am I really the only one who didn't like HP sucking mages or artes? I guess I just prefer the more traditional style. And if they do make dungeons return, they definitely could use a tweak. Though I honestly doubt that much will carry over from this one since i don't think much carried over from Gaiden the first time.

I'm not a huge fan of Mages using HP to cast, either. It works as an idea for one game, but I really don't want to see it as a series staple. 

I prefer the simple Tomes over personalized spell lists that hurt the user. 

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Something not up there that I'd like to see become a staple is Retreat. But nerfed significantly. Retreat is great if you find yourself in an unsalvageable situation where you know someone will die but don't want to reset and lose all your progress. But as it currently stands, by not respawning the enemy side, it basically serves as a full heal to all of your units and a mid battle save point. The only downside is turn count which only matters if you're going for Blitzkrieg and isn't even that significant on most maps as enemies rush you a lot of the time and most fighting is done in the center of the map meaning you only lose one or two turns. It needs to either respawn the enemy or come with some other drawbacks like maybe less rewards somewhere down the line (maybe renown could be something that affects the plot and how highly people view the main character's tactical skills). 

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1 hour ago, Jotari said:

Something not up there that I'd like to see become a staple is Retreat. But nerfed significantly. Retreat is great if you find yourself in an unsalvageable situation where you know someone will die but don't want to reset and lose all your progress. But as it currently stands, by not respawning the enemy side, it basically serves as a full heal to all of your units and a mid battle save point. The only downside is turn count which only matters if you're going for Blitzkrieg and isn't even that significant on most maps as enemies rush you a lot of the time and most fighting is done in the center of the map meaning you only lose one or two turns. It needs to either respawn the enemy or come with some other drawbacks like maybe less rewards somewhere down the line (maybe renown could be something that affects the plot and how highly people view the main character's tactical skills). 

I think it'd be neat if retreat forced you into the defensive position on the previous map. You'd be at an advantage compared to the first time you went through it, but you'd still have to go through it again and it'd seriously discourage retreating. 

Then again, it'd probably be super abusable for EXP/gold/whatever. 

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12 hours ago, Arthur97 said:

I actually broke it during the final level. Took too long and it stopped working.

Am I really the only one who didn't like HP sucking mages or artes? I guess I just prefer the more traditional style. And if they do make dungeons return, they definitely could use a tweak. Though I honestly doubt that much will carry over from this one since i don't think much carried over from Gaiden the first time.

You seriously broke the turnwheel without trying to grind something? But that takes like two hundred turns! What kind of snail's pace were you moving at?

6 hours ago, Slumber said:

I think it'd be neat if retreat forced you into the defensive position on the previous map. You'd be at an advantage compared to the first time you went through it, but you'd still have to go through it again and it'd seriously discourage retreating. 

Then again, it'd probably be super abusable for EXP/gold/whatever. 

Being abusable for EXP isn't really that big a deal if the game provides skirmishes.

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13 minutes ago, Jotari said:

You seriously broke the turnwheel without trying to grind something? But that takes like two hundred turns! What kind of snail's pace were you moving at?

Mine broke before 200. I think it was like fifty. But, yeah, the final level took me forever to finally beat it...it only took a few tries, but they could take a while. 

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5 minutes ago, Arthur97 said:

Mine broke before 200. I think it was like fifty. But, yeah, the final level took me forever to finally beat it...it only took a few tries, but they could take a while. 

Well it'll depend on how many attacks are happening each turn but I'm still pretty baffled you managed to do it.

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Just now, Jotari said:

Well it'll depend on how many attacks are happening each turn but I'm still pretty baffled you managed to do it.

It does have the single biggest cast of any map, so it stands to reason that it would break faster. Especially with so. Many. Summons.

Spoiler

Seriously though, it took me forever to finally be able to attack Duma without the Medusa guy messing me over and losing Alm meant I had to start all over. Fortunately, Duma really hates illusions.

 

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Villages would be great, only as long as the world map similar to Echoes comes back though. I think having multiple places to go to forge, talk to people to get side quests or learn more about the world, and recruit people would be great. I think we can also add shops of various types, and maybe some features like Taverns to be able to interact with the characters a bit more.

I also want to see the inventory system and all the various types of equipment return. I really liked all the shields, rings, and weapons of SoV, and the 1 inventory slot gave a bit of strategy to who you equipped with what. I will say though, cosmetic items should not count as an inventory item. The fact that the various hats and helms you could find in the Amiibo dungeons and DLC dungeons counted towards the inventory slot was just silly.

I didnt see it on the list, but I want to see Dungeons return. They were flawed for sure in SoV, but I still really enjoyed being able to run around in a few dungeons and explore the location in a 3rd person view. I think it added a bit to the world building as well, giving some locations with a bit of lore behind them. I would love to see this return, obviously with some tweaks.

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Gonna second a lot of people here but I really liked the villages. It was one of the reasons that made me like Celica and Alm and the side quests were interesting. Shields/rings were also fine. Multiple routes would be fine, as long as they don't make it like it is in Fates.

It's not on the list but Mila's turnwheel was a good addition in my opinion (partly because of the weird witch AI but anyway). It isn't really a mechanic but I liked how the characters had different clothes in their starting class.

One thing I hope to never see again is Gaiden's terrain. I swear, everytime I managed to lure an enemy unit out of the terrain, it always found a way to get back there. It's fine the way it is in other games and I even liked Radiant Dawn's elevation bonuses but those +60 graves just give me nightmares.

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I would like to see Arts replace the skill% activation skills. So these skills would still come from your class and need to be equipped in skill slots, but would then be activated manually and either cost HP or perhaps a new resource (SP) that could be based on your skill stat.

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1 minute ago, TheWerdna said:

I would like to see Arts replace the skill% activation skills. So these skills would still come from your class and need to be equipped in skill slots, but would then be activated manually and either cost HP or perhaps a new resource (SP) that could be based on your skill stat.

Seconded. The biggest thing about how things worked in past games is that skills were too luck based and could easily fail us when we needed them. If we could use them on our own free will with some risks behind using it (ie. HP cost), then it would make us be wary on when to use them as otherwise we could get ourselves killed.

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9 hours ago, Kahvi said:

I swear, everytime I managed to lure an enemy unit out of the terrain, it always found a way to get back there. It's fine the way it is in other games and I even liked Radiant Dawn's elevation bonuses but those +60 graves just give me nightmares.

And that's why Mages exist.

Though of course, SoV is built-around it's terrain and the Mages' ability to negate terrain effects. If you're gonna keep SoV's terrain, you have to keep Mages' ability to negate terrain effects as well. 

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One thing to keep in mind is that mechanics in SoV worked in the context of the other mechanics (ex. the relationship between terrain bonuses and spells). Some things won't work as well copy-pasted into a new game.

To keep:

-Villages/base conversations

-Forging

-Rings/Shields

-Multiple protagonists

To modify:

-Artes. Have them replace proc skills and be tied to classes. The cost to use them can be either a limited number of uses or HP.

-Terrain/Magic. Lower the bonuses on terrain and don't use fixed hit rates for magic.

-Keep the turnwheel but give it more limited uses for Classic. Casual can have unlimited uses.

-Use tomes instead of spells.

-Give characters a 5-6 slot inventory. Give them a specific slot for shields/rings.

-Archer range. Make them 2-3 range and magic 1-2 range. Snipers could have 2-4 range.

To remove (unless conditions are met)

-Summoners unless their summons are limited.

-Witches unless their warp skill is tweaked so they can't warp literally anywhere.

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12 hours ago, TheWerdna said:

I would like to see Arts replace the skill% activation skills. So these skills would still come from your class and need to be equipped in skill slots, but would then be activated manually and either cost HP or perhaps a new resource (SP) that could be based on your skill stat.

SP or MP is the last thing that fire emblem should add to its formula, I feel like even the arts are pushing it and the addition of SP would absolutely destroy the strategy of using arts in general. 

Then again I don't know how I feel about arts as a concept, on one hand they are far more reliable than skills because you don't have to hope for an activation, but on the other they feel odd or even wrong in fire emblem, the problem is that fire emblem gameplay is very rigid in how you are supposed to play and arts may just add too many options for taking out enemies without adding any extra strategy. The decision of what to give to a unit can be an important decision and skills feel like something that mesh better by their general nature.

So I guess my conclusion on the skills vs arts conversation would be, I would prefer skills be refined and made better than see the system be dropped altogether, fire emblem has always had luck be a minor part of gameplay and I feel that deviating from from these things can make the game either too easy or too hard and really hurt the already fragile balance that fire emblem tends to have trouble with.

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I love the idea of having the villages and 2 routes return. I think the second route give more options to tell a story as well as create a more diverse roster of characters.

I absolutely hated terrain basically dictate the RNG as much as it did, especially when they tend to give you opponent the good terrain.

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I wouldn't mind the arts system coming back, but the activation HP costs need to be much higher. I mean, Alm can activate what is basically Adept whenever he pleases for measly 6 HP. Or maybe give you a cooldown time after activating a skill where you can't activate anything. I think Heroes does this.

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I actually really would like to see the return of Mila's Turnwheel in some fashion, but thats oddly absent from this poll.

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On 8/14/2017 at 10:47 AM, Jotari said:

Being abusable for EXP isn't really that big a deal if the game provides skirmishes.

Which I don't want. I don't think a single game has benefited from skirmishes, and more often than not, they detracted from the experience.

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