Best and Worst Gameplay in the Series

[Koumal8]

10 hours ago, Armagon said:

Depends on what constitutes as a "slug's pace". Because from what you're describing, FE4 basically forces you to LTC. Anything that isn't LTC would be considered a "slug's pace", am i right?

You obviously have no even half an idea what you're talking about: 

THAT is LTC, high paced playstyle is like 3x slower, but still high pace.

10 hours ago, Armagon said:

So basically, the game punishes you for preferring a different playstyle. That's pretty bad for a strategy game. A strategy is something you as the player comes up with, yet this game discourages any strategy that isn't LTC. Maybe if the maps weren't huge, this wouldn't be an issue.

It seems you haven't been reading my posts carefully, I admitted like once or twice that FE4 big maps and village rushing is bad game design because it completely throws unit balance out of the window. Yes, FE4 heavily discourages use of foot units. Yes, FE4 punishes you in that you lose villages (I have no idea how many) if you make heavy use of footies and poor use of cavs. Yes, games punish you by making your life harder in various ways if you play suboptimally. Yes, I don't like it. Yes, I can live with it and sometimes even play FE4 suboptimally and have load and loads of fun with it. Also ditto about LTC.

10 hours ago, Armagon said:

Most, but not all. As i mentioned before, having a "best reward" and making that reward unobtainable no matter what you do is bad game design.

Ok, I'll repeat myself: there are no more than 2 villages per FE4 chapter that you can't get the full reward from. If you play at the appropriate pace you're gonna get the full reward from 70%-80% of villages. Stop saying nonsense like "why is there a full reward where you can't get 99% of the time". Because you do get it most of the time if you play at the appropriate pace. The reason there are some villages with bandits already on them or 1 turn away from them is that it's a way to split your units, they act as secondary objectives that are supposed to make the game harder, or just a different experience to play. And judging by how much you're complaining about it, it seems it works (even though it makes the game unbalanced). If you don't like it it's entirely subjective, I like it. It's a bit like thieves going for chests in later games. In that case you're intended to get the loot in one way or another anyway, in FE4 you're not and the game (moneywise) is balanced around that (since your main source of income is always the arena).

10 hours ago, Armagon said:

These two things are different. Wendy is one unit and there are other Armors in the game for you to use. That's why you aren't punished if you don't use Wendy. Meanwhile, FE4's basically unplayable without cavalry units. I mean, i'm sure there's a "no horse emblem" run out there but the game's already a massive slog. The lack of cavalry units would make it even worse. And also, no horse emblem=probably losing all of the villages. So not using horse emblem in FE4 will get you punished one way or another.

The other Armors suck almost as much as Wendy, except maybe Douglas who can rescue and shield Roy from danger, but I don't want to talk about FE& right now, it's off topic and I have less experience with FE6 HM. No horse emblem = you lose more villages than you're supposed to. Yes it's a bad thing because it makes the playable roster unbalanced. Yes, it's bad game design. Yes, I've been saying it's bad game design since we started this conversation. We were talking about it being "unfair" to the player, while it is not. See my previous post for explanation.

Back on topic: I'm actually surprised by the amount of people saying that Rev has the worst gameplay: I mean, the map design is gimmicky and trash, but half the cast still joins at the appropriate time and with the appropriate bases and the game still retains Fates' generally balanced pair up mechanics, weapon system, reclass system etc...

[Armagon]

16 hours ago, Koumal8 said:

If you play at the appropriate pace you're gonna get the full reward from 70%-80% of villages.

But why can you only get the full reward from 80% of the villages and not all of them? Perhaps it makes sense from a narrative perspective, but not from a gameplay perspective. Wouldn't it be better game design if you could save all of the villages intact?

16 hours ago, Koumal8 said:

I've been saying it's bad game design since we started this conversation. We were talking about it being "unfair" to the player, while it is not.

I still don't see how bad game design =/= unfair. Because whenever a game is badly designed, it usually causes a lot of inconvenience for the player and ends up doing some unfair things.

16 hours ago, Koumal8 said:

I'm actually surprised by the amount of people saying that Rev has the worst gameplay: I mean, the map design is gimmicky and trash, but half the cast still joins at the appropriate time and with the appropriate bases and the game still retains Fates' generally balanced pair up mechanics, weapon system, reclass system etc...

From what i've seen, most people point towards the chapter where a Lv.9 Nyx joins at the same time as a promoted Lv.10 Shura as evidence of bad unit balance. Then, of course, there's the gimmicky maps but i never really had a problem with them. I thought most of them were fine apart from Fuga's Wild Ride, Ice Town, that one Ninja level with a bunch of spikes, and the stealth mission.

[Shadow Mir]

2 hours ago, Armagon said:

From what i've seen, most people point towards the chapter where a Lv.9 Nyx joins at the same time as a promoted Lv.10 Shura as evidence of bad unit balance. Then, of course, there's the gimmicky maps but i never really had a problem with them. I thought most of them were fine apart from Fuga's Wild Ride, Ice Town, that one Ninja level with a bunch of spikes, and the stealth mission.

That's pretty odd, yes, but I don't really see that as that bad compared to a healer joining in chapter 9... of a 12 chapter game... at level 1.

[Jotari]

4 minutes ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

That's pretty odd, yes, but I don't really see that as that bad compared to a healer joining in chapter 9... of a 12 chapter game... at level 1.

If your talking about Corple theres some serious mitigating factors there. First being that Holy War chapters are at least three to four chapters longer than standard games, so its the equivalent of about ten chapters left in the game. Secondly Holy War is split into two generations. So chapter 9 is really is really chapter four of six, or just over half way through the campaign. Still pretty late for a healer but not nearly as much as you make out (and not unheard of either, Elice certainly joins later in Shadow Dragon and without checking chapter counts,I reckon L'Archel joins pretty close to the latter side of the halfway point too).

[Armagon]

5 hours ago, Jotari said:

If your talking about Corple theres some serious mitigating factors there. First being that Holy War chapters are at least three to four chapters longer than standard games, so its the equivalent of about ten chapters left in the game. Secondly Holy War is split into two generations. So chapter 9 is really is really chapter four of six, or just over half way through the campaign. Still pretty late for a healer but not nearly as much as you make out (and not unheard of either, Elice certainly joins later in Shadow Dragon and without checking chapter counts,I reckon L'Archel joins pretty close to the latter side of the halfway point too).

Well, the thing about Corple is that, Lv.20 is the minimum required level to promote in FE4 (something i'm personally not a fan of since i like to promote ASAP). Corple joins at Lv.1 as a Staff-locked unit. He has some serious catching up to do and it will take a long while for him to promote because he's a Staff-unit, even if you abuse things like Return and Warp. Meanwhile, in FE1 and Book 1 of FE3, Elice joins late at Lv.4, but in FE11, she joins at Lv.10, ready to promote. L'Archel joins in Ch.11 of both routes in Sacred Stones and, let's be honest, it's not that hard to train her. Or anybody. The Tower of Grinding exists.

Of course, the only join times worse than Corple's are the join times of Elice, Maria, Nyna, and Lena in FE3/12, but because it's Endgame when that happens, it doesn't really matter.

[Jotari]

28 minutes ago, Armagon said:

Well, the thing about Corple is that, Lv.20 is the minimum required level to promote in FE4 (something i'm personally not a fan of since i like to promote ASAP). Corple joins at Lv.1 as a Staff-locked unit. He has some serious catching up to do and it will take a long while for him to promote because he's a Staff-unit, even if you abuse things like Return and Warp. Meanwhile, in FE1 and Book 1 of FE3, Elice joins late at Lv.4, but in FE11, she joins at Lv.10, ready to promote. L'Archel joins in Ch.11 of both routes in Sacred Stones and, let's be honest, it's not that hard to train her. Or anybody. The Tower of Grinding exists.

Of course, the only join times worse than Corple's are the join times of Elice, Maria, Nyna, and Lena in FE3/12, but because it's Endgame when that happens, it doesn't really matter.

Yeah I was aware of the maidens in mystery but didnt even mention them since they're such a special circumstance. Grinding healers in FE4 is also much easier than you're giving it credit for, to the extent that they're considered the biggest boon when going for an EXP S Rank. I'd even go so far as to say its probably the easiest game to train stave users, including the games where you can just reclass them. Not only are there several very high exp gain staves but due to the nature of the arena you can deplete HP safely at will to the extent that a staff user will ne healing every single turn. Corple's biggest problem is his lack of a horse and the fact that there are other Gen II stave users that do everything he does and more.

[Shadow Mir]

13 hours ago, Jotari said:

If your talking about Corple theres some serious mitigating factors there. First being that Holy War chapters are at least three to four chapters longer than standard games, so its the equivalent of about ten chapters left in the game. Secondly Holy War is split into two generations. So chapter 9 is really is really chapter four of six, or just over half way through the campaign. Still pretty late for a healer but not nearly as much as you make out (and not unheard of either, Elice certainly joins later in Shadow Dragon and without checking chapter counts,I reckon L'Archel joins pretty close to the latter side of the halfway point too).

That's exactly what I was getting at. Now, granted, I failed to mention that this was in the second generation, but healers tend to get a lot of flak for being hard to raise as is, and Corple starts as far away from promotion as you can. As for Elice and L'Arachel, the former can instantly promote (in SD at least), and the latter is in a game with grinding. Corple's in a game where non-horse units won't get to do much of anything unless you regularly slow down, and worse yet, doesn't bring anything worth noting to the table that Lana or Nanna don't.

7 hours ago, Jotari said:

Yeah I was aware of the maidens in mystery but didnt even mention them since they're such a special circumstance. Grinding healers in FE4 is also much easier than you're giving it credit for, to the extent that they're considered the biggest boon when going for an EXP S Rank. I'd even go so far as to say its probably the easiest game to train stave users, including the games where you can just reclass them. Not only are there several very high exp gain staves but due to the nature of the arena you can deplete HP safely at will to the extent that a staff user will ne healing every single turn. Corple's biggest problem is his lack of a horse and the fact that there are other Gen II stave users that do everything he does and more.

But unless he starts with the high exp staves, he's going to have to get them via pawnshop (and this IS The Rich Get Richer: The Game we're talking about here)...

[Jotari]

7 hours ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

That's exactly what I was getting at. Now, granted, I failed to mention that this was in the second generation, but healers tend to get a lot of flak for being hard to raise as is, and Corple starts as far away from promotion as you can. As for Elice and L'Arachel, the former can instantly promote (in SD at least), and the latter is in a game with grinding. Corple's in a game where non-horse units won't get to do much of anything unless you regularly slow down, and worse yet, doesn't bring anything worth noting to the table that Lana or Nanna don't.

But unless he starts with the high exp staves, he's going to have to get them via pawnshop (and this IS The Rich Get Richer: The Game we're talking about here)...

It isnt particularly hard to guve Corple the high exp staves and money to repair them, the issue is that theres absolutely no incentive to do so since Corple brings nothing unique to the team.

[Shadow Mir]

1 hour ago, Jotari said:

It isnt particularly hard to guve Corple the high exp staves and money to repair them, the issue is that theres absolutely no incentive to do so since Corple brings nothing unique to the team.

That certainly doesn't help, but one look at Corple's level is all I need to deem him not worth using.

[Harvey]

Best Gameplay:

I want to say Shadows of Valentia, Blazing Blade, Awakening and Fates: Conquest but if I have to choose one, its Conquest.

For starters, it has the best map design of the three games, has very balanced units unlike Birthright where the rest of the game is Ryoma right and has objective variety. I like a lot of the variety this game has to offer especially chapter 10.

Best thing about it is that the game is also casual friendly as some of the game's maps are long so the idea of casual mode being there helps a lot.

Worst Gameplay: Binding Blade

Now let's get this out of the way, its not a bad game nor it is the best game I've played. It has a good challenge and I get why many love it because of that....but god damn it, this game has serious issues.

Not to make it so long, I'll sum it up in a few points..

• Known to have the worst lord in the series and even if he ends up getting promoted(which is very late btw) he's still swordlocked and can't ride a horse.
• Gives you so many units that range from good, average or trash with the latter being the most frequent due to a lot of them having low bases very late. 
• Has a bunch of fetch quests that force you to do so much with so little time.
• Side quests are cryptic to get access into atleast on your first playthrough.
• Horrible weapon balance which means that axe units are bad no matter how you put it.
• Long maps that can drag at times.

 

Had this game been tweaked like Blazing Sword, I would have liked it better. Again, its not terrible..but its not best either. 

 

[Peppy]

Best: Conquest, hands down.
Manages to have engaging gameplay by giving enemies skills which make them challenging to kill (such as Counter on Archers, a group of defensive enemies with particular ones having a lot of rally skills, various setups involving Lunge). The way the AI is programmed also makes killing enemies more difficult, since you can't merely lure them in one at a time. This game does especially good with making enemies challenging without relying on forged weapons. Instead, they give enemies a specific weapon that makes them more challenging to approach (such as putting a Swordcatcher enemy to prevent Xander from tanking them with Siegfried and giving an enemy with Certain Blow and Death Blow a Great Club). Asides from unit balance (which a lot of games don't seem to get correct anyways), the gameplay of Conquest is solid.

 

Worst: Definitely Genealogy of the Holy War. This game does many things to significantly separate good units and bad units.

The worst thing being Pursuit. Double Attacking allows one to do quite a bit more damage. If you only grant that ability to select units with a certain skill, the units who have that skill will undeniably be better. Another thing that separates them are Mounts. Not only does this game make the movement difference between foot units and mounted units higher (even if it is by one, it still makes a significant difference), it also has bigger maps to emphasize just how much better mounted units are. One last thing is Holy Blood. A unit having holy blood make their growths better, alongside giving them higher weapon ranks for certain types of weapons off the bat. This problem is only made worse by the existence of Holy Weapons, which allow certain units in a pool of units with holy blood (with Major Holy Blood being a thing) to be significantly better than most units by using a weapon that not only has an overkill amount of might but also gives a ridiculous amount of stat boosts. Another terrible thing about this game is the horrendous weapon balance. Weapon types mostly differ from each other by weight, with Anima Magic only differing by weight. This makes units who wield Swords and Wind Magic good units while it makes those who use Axes and Fire Magic disgustingly terrible. Hell, the one playable unit that is considered good with Axes has to rely on a Mount, alongside with getting an Axe from a completely cryptic event to be good. Which leads to my next argument.

Another thing that makes the gameplay bad is the inclusion of cryptic events that offer good items. In specific, you need to have a specific unit go on a specific tile of a giant map just to be able to get specific items. This wouldn't be too bad if it only gave items that didn't make much of a difference but considering that a Brave Axe and a Pursuit Ring are on the line, this is just unacceptable. The fact that most of the enemies in this game are clumped in large groups that just charge at you all at once is really not helping things here either. It is thanks to all these gameplay flaws that the foundation of the gameplay of this Fire Emblem is completely shattered.

I am able to understand why a lot of people like this game though, since it has a story that provides a fair amount of impactful moments, alongside with having a phenomenal soundtrack. Considering that I hold gameplay in high regard for the Fire Emblem series though, I can't see this game being anything but terrible. After the experience of a first playthrough that allows one to enjoy the story and the soundtrack, all that is left is a massively flawed game.

Edited August 18, 2017 by Peppy

[Armagon]

3 hours ago, Peppy said:

Weapon types mostly differ from each other by weight, with Anima Magic only differing by weight. This makes units who wield Swords and Wind Magic good units while it makes those who use Axes and Fire Magic disgustingly terrible

I was not aware of this regarding FE4 (Fire specifically. Because Axes sucked but Fire magic felt ok). Granted, FE6 has a similar problem in where swords are the best weapon, but in FE6, it felt negligible (at least in normal mode). I can see it having a lot more impact in FE4 due to it's abysmal gameplay. Actually, now that i think about it, what purpose does weight serve in FE4? Because Pursuit is the only way to double, unless i'm missing something. It's been about a month since my second incomplete playthrough. It's incomplete because the gameplay is absolute shit and the backtracking in Ch.2 completely killed any chance of me replaying it again.

 

4 hours ago, Harvey said:

Worst Gameplay: Binding Blade

• Gives you so many units that range from good, average or trash with the latter being the most frequent due to a lot of them having low bases very late. 
• Has a bunch of fetch quests that force you to do so much with so little time.
• Horrible weapon balance which means that axe units are bad no matter how you put it.
• Long maps that can drag at times.

All of this, especially that last one, is in FE4, except it's worse in that game. And that's not counting the other abysmal problems FE4 has.

I'm not gonna deny that FE6's gameplay has problems but they are all 100% better than all of FE4's problems, even if some problems are shared.

Edited August 18, 2017 by Armagon

[Harvey]

10 minutes ago, Armagon said:

All of this, especially that last one, is in FE4, except it's worse in that game.

Maybe for those three points to you but the fetch quests in FE4 aren't nowhere as tedious as they are in FE6. And quite frankly, I'd rather deal with Seliph than Roy since he can promote faster than him.

As for fetch quests, getting Hannibal is optional unlike Douglas who cannot be recruited in the chapter he first appears but at the same time should not be killed for some reason inorder to unlock the gaiden chapter(which is already a frustrating thing to do). Hannibal doesn't need to be recruited nor does he do so much in the ending so its not a loss if you kill him unlike Douglas who requires a certain trick.

None of the fetch quests in FE4 exaggerate in the same level as FE6. FE6 has this chapter to not only save villages but to also recruit Klein and Tate at the same time as well which is frustrating since you're given so little time to do so. 

FE4 to me has fair fetch quests and don't do anything ridiculous as what FE6 does. I will agree with you again, that long maps can be a bit annoying in FE4 but since you have battlesaves and since nearly all the sidequests are optional, it isn't anywhere as frustrating as in FE6 where most side quests force you to do so much with little time.

Also, why are you quoting my opinion on this? Do you want me to agree with you that FE4 is bad or something? I just said what in my opinion is the worst gameplay in the series and to me its binding blade.

 

[Armagon]

1 hour ago, Harvey said:

Maybe for those three points to you but the fetch quests in FE4 aren't nowhere as tedious as they are in FE6. 

I guess. Most of the fetch quests in FE4 are just "save village to get item". But sometimes, these items are really cryptic. The two that come to mind are Lex and his Brave Axe and Seliph and some ring. For Lex, in Ch.1, you have to cross this forest and go to this exact spot near the lake. And only Lex can do it. For Seliph, after killing Arvis, he then has to go to the nearby beach, stand on a specfic spot, and a cutscene will trigger where he talks to his deceased parents. I wouldn't have known any of this without a guide. 

So yeah, FE4's fetch quests are less tedious but (usually) more cryptic. 

1 hour ago, Harvey said:

As for fetch quests, getting Hannibal is optional unlike Douglas who cannot be recruited in the chapter he first appears but at the same time should not be killed for some reason inorder to unlock the gaiden chapter(which is already a frustrating thing to do). Hannibal doesn't need to be recruited nor does he do so much in the ending so its not a loss if you kill him unlike Douglas who requires a certain trick.

Wait, why is this a problem? There are a lot of characters in the series who are optionally recruited. 

1 hour ago, Harvey said:

FE6 has this chapter to not only save villages but to also recruit Klein and Tate at the same time as well which is frustrating since you're given so little time to do so. 

Agreed. Ch.11A sucks and i hate it (but not as much as Ch.21).

1 hour ago, Harvey said:

I will agree with you again, that long maps can be a bit annoying in FE4 but since you have battlesaves and since nearly all the sidequests are optional, it isn't anywhere as frustrating as in FE6 where most side quests force you to do so much with little time.

FE6 has battlesaves too. Just not the perament ones FE4 has. FE6 sidequests, assuming you're refering to the turn limit for Gaiden chapters, is actually pretty generous. The only times where it might get stressful is Ch.14 and Ch.21. 

1 hour ago, Harvey said:

Also, why are you quoting my opinion on this?

I'm allowed to disagree.

Edited August 18, 2017 by Armagon

[Harvey]

5 hours ago, Armagon said:

I'm allowed to disagree.

The problem with this is that whatever opinion is posted is disagreed even if its a fair point and at this point, you're just quoting me on every single post that I've done further arguing something that's pretty dead to me.

With that, I'm ending this argument.

 

[Interdimensional Observer]

7 hours ago, Armagon said:

So yeah, FE4's fetch quests are less tedious but (usually) more cryptic. 

As befitting the SNES era. How are you supposed to know about the Paladin Shield in FF6? And there is no great hint telling you about how to save Shadow either. Or how about the Casino and the Lazy Shell in Super Mario RPG? Modern games tend to make their secrets a good deal less hidden, but they still keep a few, partly because the Internet makes finding out the hidden stuff really easy if you have a problem missing out on the good stuff (which is understandable for RPGs, since they're long enough you'll may only play them once).

[Jotari]

11 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

As befitting the SNES era. How are you supposed to know about the Paladin Shield in FF6? And there is no great hint telling you about how to save Shadow either. Or how about the Casino and the Lazy Shell in Super Mario RPG? Modern games tend to make their secrets a good deal less hidden, but they still keep a few, partly because the Internet makes finding out the hidden stuff really easy if you have a problem missing out on the good stuff (which is understandable for RPGs, since they're long enough you'll may only play them once).

And while it is better in modern games, not by as much as one might think. Infamously so with Stefan (we can call Tellius modern games right?) who's not only an entire character but also an S Ranked sword that's hidden on one spot, in one map that can only be recruited by two or three specific characters. Or for a truly more modern game the drop rates in Shadows of Valentia. Who in the world will find all of the ancient weapons via happenstance? There's also those NPCs that hold valuable items but hand out a random one whenever you complete their quest. So you just have to keep giving them stuff. And it's not even a case of them just having some rare prize's, they'll just stop handing over the valuable item after you first find it. Why not give it to the player automatically on the first attempt and give random one's on subsequent tries? Most players will not spend their entire inventory giving cute things to a village girl if all they're getting are cookies.

[ping]

I have only played 6-12 and I don't want to pick a "worst" game, so I won't cast a vote. However, out of the games I've played, I'd say that New Mystery actually has the best overall gameplay.

It's not my absolute favorite, that would be FE6 if I want a challenge and FE9 if I just want a relaxing game. And it's far from perfect, too - the playable cast might be the most imbalanced of the series, with most units that join after the first third of the game (plus/minus) being somewhere between horrible and "OK, but with no real advantage over the earlier, now higher-leveled units".

Still, no FE game is without some flaws, and FE12 offers quite a lot to counterweight, imho. I know that the reclass mechanism is not universally liked and I would have preferred a more limited variant, like in Fates, but it's really fun to mess around with it, maybe reclass in a way that a unit has some WEXP in more than one weapon type after promotion (for example Fighter -> Hero MU). The assassin chapters are really fun, as well - the integration into the plot might be questionable at best, but the thread is about gameplay, after all. ;) The only map that I really dislike is the one in which you recruit Palla, Julian and Mathis, where you have to stroll along the entire outline of the map in order to recruit some shitty cavalier. :/

It's too bad that I kinda suck at this game (I did finish H2, but it involved a loooot of resets), but I do return to its H1 mode once in a while and it's still quite fun.

[Just call me AL]

On 8/18/2017 at 2:15 AM, Harvey said:

Worst Gameplay: Binding Blade

Now let's get this out of the way, its not a bad game nor it is the best game I've played. It has a good challenge and I get why many love it because of that....but god damn it, this game has serious issues.

Not to make it so long, I'll sum it up in a few points..

• Known to have the worst lord in the series and even if he ends up getting promoted(which is very late btw) he's still swordlocked and can't ride a horse.

Roy isn't FE11 Marth, though.

Quote

• Side quests are cryptic to get access into at least on your first playthrough.

Lilina knows where Durandal is. Elphin knows where Armads is. Sophia knows where Forblaze is. Sue, Shin, and Dayan know where Murgleis is. And so on. What about this is cryptic?

Quote

• Horrible weapon balance which means that axe units are bad no matter how you put it.

With some exceptions, that is.

[Armagon]

8 minutes ago, Just call me AL said:

Lilina knows where Durandal is. Elphin knows where Armads is. Sophia knows where Forblaze is. Sue, Shin, and Dayan know where Murgleis is. And so on. What about this is cryptic?

He was referring to the actual requirements for accessing the Gaiden chapter. Aside from Durandal, the game doesn't really tell you the requirements.

[Just call me AL]

13 minutes ago, Armagon said:

He was referring to the actual requirements for accessing the Gaiden chapter. Aside from Durandal, the game doesn't really tell you the requirements.

But at the same time, the requirements should be easy to figure out. Considering where each Legendary is located, and who among your team, be it a recent addition or a long time member, would know about them.

[Armagon]

1 minute ago, Just call me AL said:

But at the same time, the requirements should be easy to figure out. Considering where each Legendary is located, and who among your team, be it a recent addition or a long time member, would know about them.

Alright, let me clarify: the turn limit. Also, keeping Douglas alive in Ch.16. He isn't recruited unit 16x and an unknowing player might accidentally kill him, thus screwing them out of accessing Ch.16x.

[Just call me AL]

11 minutes ago, Armagon said:

Alright, let me clarify: the turn limit. Also, keeping Douglas alive in Ch.16. He isn't recruited unit 16x and an unknowing player might accidentally kill him, thus screwing them out of accessing Ch.16x.

The turn limit seems kind of implied, due to the urgency in the chapters preceding where you get the Legendaries. And the player is clued in to the fact that Douglas is recruitable due to his loyalty to Mildain. The only way I can think of that the player would get screwed out of Ch 16x is if they weren't paying attention.

[Jotari]

The game also tells you when the turn limit has been passed.

[Armagon]

23 hours ago, Just call me AL said:

The turn limit seems kind of implied, due to the urgency in the chapters preceding where you get the Legendaries.

Yes, but you still don't know what the turn limit is. Implied =/= knowing for sure.

22 hours ago, Jotari said:

The game also tells you when the turn limit has been passed.

By then, it's too late.