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Opinions on that Fire Emblem Echoes SoV Character #1-#52 (Check the OP)


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Alm: I like him. He has a lot of really solid banter with the supporting cast that humanizes him and I really like how when other characters like Clive question him, he convinces them with the results of his actions rather than words alone. I also love how characters like Luthier and Clive want him to be king based more on his achievements rather than his station of birth.

Alm "being perfect" doesn't really bother me that much since his initial situation is fairly dire and I do believe he makes a few notable mistakes in the main campaign itself, like being lured in by Nuibaba, killing his father, and possibly not saving Mathilda. Additionally, he was the driving force that led Fernand and Berkut to both die, though it can be argued that that was more their own fault rather than his.

What does bother me is the hard on he develops for Celica in Act 4. I didn't really feel his reasons for this were explained particularly well and I think he and Celica should have had some sort of meeting or confrontation first before these feelings developed.

I'll probably talk about Celica later when I have more free time

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4 hours ago, Thane said:

So does this mean we won't discuss the villains?

We will still discuss the villains. I was just saying that the playable units that will be discussed each day will be one from Alm's army and one from Celica's army. 

For the first three days, it will only be one random playable unit from Alm's army and one playable unit from Celica's Army. Starting from day four, we will discuss three characters: one random playable unit from Alm's army, one random playable unit from Celica's Army, and one random major villain/a story-relevant non-unit character. The NPC choices come from the SF pre-release popularity poll, so they would include the villains (I plan on including Grieth as well unless there are any objections) plus Rinea, Mila, Ilma, Halcyon, and Massena. If many object to rating the last five characters mentioned, I can drop them.

------------------------------------------------

Day 1 is over, and with that, we are now onto Day 2!

Today's characters that we will be discussing are Forsyth and Valbar.

What is your opinion on both of these characters?

I will give my thoughts on them later.

Edited by Erureido
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Alm:

Spoiler

He's an anime protagonist with out the energy that a lot of them have. Very dull to be quite honest. All his "dorkable" moments that people praise about him was something I've never liked. This kind of lead feels so been their done that (while not doing anything different); I find him to be just forgettable. Love the Double Lions skill.

Celica:

Spoiler

Maybe it's because I didn't like the justification for having two routes in general and her being so irrational towards Alm and playing through her route was a chore and a half; the stuff with Jedah was didn't bother me. Her being the basis for Eirkia is quite obvious (down to doing questionable stuff to save their boyfriends), but Eirkia doesn't have Celica's end of Act II moment.

Spoiler

Also, these two as a romance came off as silly to me with the whole children of fate and destiny talk throughout out the game. I got quite a few laughs to be frank.

Forsyth & Valibar: they are people... in Echoes. With the large ass maps in this game, two people in a low movement class and put out quite mediocre damage I did not give the time of day.

Edited by I'm a Spheal
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Forsyth: An enjoyable bundle of energy my current run plans to Pitchfork into archer (he didn't work out for me on the first playthrough). His despot speech before the final map was inspiring.
Also, I'm just now watching the Deliverance Supports, and the line "If someone doesn't knight you for that, something is clearly wrong." Apt.

Valbar: He doesn't really interest me. I think he might be a good partner for Genny, but really, he's just there. And I'm still bitter about forgetting he's a prepromote on my first run.

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Note that I only seen a playthrough of Echoes so I can't speak about them gameplay-wise.


Alm: I think they should have given him a more aggresive personality so he would contrast with Celica better ("How do I compassionately stab someone?"), but overall I like him. He had a few lines that were able to get some laughs out of me, and I liked his voice acting. Design wise, it is not really perfect, as I feel something is missing (no, not that), but it is a nice armor design. I would admit that his lack of actual flaws are rather bothersome, but it is not enough to make me cringe. 

Celica:  I feel like Celica did get screwed over a bit in the story, but I do like her overall, even if I wouldn't put her on my top list of characters. I like her outfit, and being a sword and sorcery lord is a cool mix. Her voice was not what I initially expected, but it was a good one. I was a bit put off by the damsel distress tropes involved with her though. It is one thing to need help, and another to be helpless.

Valbar: He was just.....I don't know, kind of there for me. Personality or design wise, he never really stood out for me.

Forsyth: Smilar to Valbar, but I have not really looked into him so I don't know too much about him. Though his apparent large ham tendencies are a bit amusing.

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Forsyth: As a character, he doesn't really have much presence throughout the story, but when he's fine when he does speak. I mean, he's not gonna rise up the ranks of my favorite characters, but he's fine. I give him some bonus points for his design, I like the green color scheme he has going on, and I give him a couple more bonus points for his ability as a unit. He was always my go-to armored unit once I got him.

Valbar: He's just kinda...there. He hardly says anything after you first encounter him, but unlike Forsyth, I didn't really use him much. I mean, he certainly wasn't a terrible unit, but he wasn't one I was putting on the front lines! Especially not on those desert maps, or the poisoned swamp ones! As for his design, it's one of my least favorites among the playable cast.

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I will now give my opinions on today's characters.

Forsyth: Here he is! My second favorite character in SoV! His energetic and hammy personality was quite amusing most of the time, and I enjoyed his backstory too. Turns out he wanted to be a soldier growing up, but his father wanted him to be a scholar just like him. Even then, Forsyth still found ways to incorporate some scholarly parts into his life. He sometimes reads books amidst battles! Forsyth and Python were childhood friends growing up, and to this day, they are still great pals. Together they have my favorite dynamic in the game. The two characters are opposites when it comes to their personalities, but they click so well and have some really funny interactions. I also relate to Forsyth in many ways. I was a go-getter in high school who would often motivate others, especially during sports events, similar to how Forsyth is to his fellow soldiers. Forsyth is also a really sensitive guy just like me. We both tend to take every word, suggestion, and comment quite literally.

Unit-wise, Forsyth was my best Baron in the game. Sure he had a rocky start considering how under leveled he is when recruited, but after several level-ups, Forsyth really shined. By the time he became a Baron, Forsyth was able to tank almost minimal damage against most physical attacks and deal some heavy damage back. He even some decent Speed that was enough to outspeed certain enemy units. His Resistance was high enough that he didn't get outright slaughtered by enemy Witches compared to Lukas and Valbar. In fact, he managed to handle Witches quite well.

I can't say much about Forsyth's design. His armor is basically a green palette to Lukas's outfit. I like Forsyth's hairstyle, and Chris Cason did a great job capturing the character's hamminess. My favorite Forsyth has to be the one where he makes the pun. You know, the one where he says, "I'm a Forsyth to be reckoned with!"

Valbar: I like him. Poor man lost his whole family to pirates while he was elsewhere on duty. Despite his loss, Valbar is able to move on with his life without dwelling too much about that tragic past. Valbar's philosophy of wanting to repay debts to those who do good onto him also reminds me of Kaden, a character that I liked in Fire Emblem Fates who had that aspect as one of his defining traits. 

Valbar was quite the strong unit during the early game thanks to his really high Defense stat that allowed him to wall most physical attacks. Combined with a good lance, he could even deal some strong damage. Sadly, he became less effective as the game progressed, namely due to the abundance of mages in those later maps (and keeping in mind Valbar's extremely low Resistance... yeah).

His voice-acting is decent overall, though his design is rather dull compared to other character designs IMO.

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8 hours ago, CriticalMiss said:

I agree with you to some extent, but I still think that it's at least understandable that she would want to defend her father, even if he was a terrible ruler and father. We may just have different perspectives on this though.

It sounds like we do, because I believe it still contradicts what the story has shown us so far. In the first two chapters we get a bunch of information about what a piece of shit Lima was, and the second chapter even starts with Celica saying that that man will never be her father. To suddenly have her lash out at Alm because he points fingers at a ruler we know to be horrible feels completely at odds with the information we have received up to that point, making it feel like just a contrived reason for the two to get mad and go their separate ways. 

8 hours ago, CriticalMiss said:

I understand what you mean, but I don't think Celica's reaction is completely uncalled for because she wanted to defend her father and was worried for Alm's safety.

Yes, but getting pissed off, yelling at him and leaving suddenly after what was supposed to be a heartfelt reunion does not exactly guarantee his safety. In fact I'd wager it's the opposite.

8 hours ago, CriticalMiss said:

I feel that Celica hoping to resolve the issue peacefully plays into Celica representing Mila's ideals

Does she represent Mila's ideals? Mila fought against Duma. The Zofians want to fight against Rigel and unite behind Alm. Celica seems to be the only one who wants - and believes - in an implausible peaceful solution. I get what you're saying, and that Celica is supposed to represent Mila's ideals, but just like Alm does not represent Duma, the game is at odds with how to have Celica represent Mila's ideals.

8 hours ago, CriticalMiss said:

Gray even points this out in his conversation with Tobin after Alm's speech.

Gray points it out to Tobin, but is there anything that indicates that Alm believes they only need to drive the Rigelians off Zofian soil? Because it sounds like he's aware of it, and he doesn't seem surprised over having to continue marching into Rigel.

8 hours ago, CriticalMiss said:

I don't think Alm was referring to how Lima handled the invasion because he blamed Lima for causing the war, and the Rigelians invading would have marked the start. If that is what he meant, however, then I would feel Alm is more justified in his accusation.

Here's the problem with the scene being so incredibly short yet is supposed to convey a lot of information at once and set the foundation for the entire story: we don't know exactly what Alm is referring to here, and we don't have enough information about what Lima did to speculate.

Anyway, today's characters.

Forsyth

A guy who doesn't do much for me but has a good role in the DLC and a great support with Lukas there. This should've been conveyed in the main game, but I'm glad he was fleshed out a bit.

Valbar

Maybe a bit on the generic side, but I've got a soft spot for him. I like how his little subplot handled and how he discussed it with Leon. Swell guy, awesome chin. Too bad it's very hard ot use him on Celica's route.

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Forsyth: After coming from Fates, I think it was nice to see a character with highly driven to become a knight. Others would probably put him in the generic group of characters, but I really like him. He reflects Alm's role as Zero to Hero more than Alm does. A normal commoner, who wants to leave his bookworm past behind and become a knight of Zofia. I also really his supports with Lukas and Python. As a unit, I thought he was a great. Mostly because he was the first pitchfork user and made an awesome Dreadfighter.

Valbar: The design of his character was somewhat cool, but didn't stand out like many others did. He seemed like he could've been some minor NPC for plot. He's probably my least favorite of the males on Celica's side excluding Deen. Unit wise, I used him until the desert maps, where everyone left him in the dust.

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I love doing these!

Alm

My feelings on Alm are complicated. He's kind of an endearing dork, and I do genuinely want to like him, but he suffers from a similar issue that Ephraim and Ike do; both the game and the fanbase lionize him in order to put down a female protagonist from the same game, and his plot ultimately overtakes and absorbs hers. I don't find him anywhere near as obnoxious as Ephy, but he also doesn't have the benefit of nostalgia to mitigate my irritation with him like Ike does. Also, my Alm got bizarrely Str screwed, so I wasn't super fond of having to use him.

Celica

My feelings on Celica are also complicated, but for a different reason. On paper I'm not super fond of her, and yet the raw deal Echoes gives her upsets me enough that I find myself defensive of people shitting on her, especially since they seemingly can't do so without comparing her to Alm. I do think she's interesting at the start of her story, at least, it's just a shame the game didn't care enough to follow through on any of it. At least my Celica was pretty insanely blessed.

Forsyth

What a goober. I love this silly dude, both in a vacuum and as part of a duo with Python. It's a real shame Armor units aren't all that good in Echoes, but Forsyth turned out to be the best of the three and I even managed to take him to the postgame dungeon with some success. One of the greats out of an already great cast.

Valbar

I wish I liked Valbar more than I do. There's nothing inherently wrong with him as a character, but it's a case of a unit's performance coloring my opinion of them, and Valbar basically stopped being useful the second I hit Chapter 3. By mid-Chapter 4 he was utter dead weight that I was constantly having to protect, the exact opposite of how Armor units are supposed to work. Ah well, at least he's a nice enough dude, and his entourage are some of my faves.

Edited by epilepsyduck
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Forsyth: I honestly can't say much about him. He always fell behind Lukas. Hell, Lukas was the only one Knight i ever used after Act 3. Forsyth's got an alright character. Design-wise, he's alright. Unit-wise, i found him to be an inferior Lukas.

Valbar: I like Valbar. He's got a pretty good voice, and his design is pretty neat too. I also feel pretty bad for him losing his entire family. As a unit, he sucks. There's just something about Knights in this game. Of the three default Knights, only Lukas is good. Valbar in particular gets screwed by the desert and swamp maps on Celica's route. The irony here is that Valbar is the leader of his trio (Valbar, Kamui, and Leon), yet he's the worst of the three, unit wise.

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18 hours ago, Thane said:

Do you know why this scene was so dumb?

Do you know why I said that scene was stupid in the first place?

I wasn't by any means being apologetic to it.  I found it to be pretty much entirely grating, and I do agree that Alm wasn't wrong for pointing blame for the war to King Lima IV.  What I said was only standing in comparison to all the other times people challenged Alm's standing as a leader of the army, and possible successor to the throne.  If anything, it's more of a bad thing for the story as a whole than it is a good thing.  If that scene was the best they had to offer as far as classist warfare, then it means that the game's classist themes are just absolute trite in how they're handled.

Actually, I might be wrong there, because Catria mulling over the weight of responsibility royals have was fairly amusing and interesting, even if it was just a brief monologue.  Goddamn, Catria, how is it that you make the games you're in that much better?

12 hours ago, Erureido said:

Today's characters that we will be discussing are Forsyth and Valbar.

There might not be all that much force to start a flame war about these two.  I'm sorry...

Forsyth

Funny catchphrase that I never grow tired of, but aside from that... he's alright.  Never got any DLC for the game, so I didn't get much out of him.  Plays the dedicated opposite to Python's "give-no-shits" attitude.  As a unit, I preferred Lukas.

Valbar

I liked him pretty much straight out of the gate.  A very typical knight, but with an actual character arc that's both tragic and uplifting.  He lost his whole family, but he chooses not to let it destroy him, instead remembering the happy times and pressing on with his duty.  And not only that, but he isn't really judgmental of Leon pretty much pining for him, likely because they have history.  Just an all around likable dude who sees the light in the encroaching darkness.

And of course, you have chin.  Though no phallic armor knocks him down from an 8 to a 3.

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2 hours ago, Ertrick36 said:

Do you know why I said that scene was stupid in the first place?

You'll have to forgive me, I didn't mean to sound like I was harping on you for defending it, but more like "pff, can you believe this?". 

2 hours ago, Ertrick36 said:

Goddamn, Catria, how is it that you make the games you're in that much better?

Because Catria's best Whitewing.

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11 minutes ago, Thane said:

You'll have to forgive me, I didn't mean to sound like I was harping on you for defending it, but more like "pff, can you believe this?".

It's cool.  I almost had a feeling this was more the case, but obviously the net is a difficult place to convey a respectful tone, so I had to take it assuming varying tones all at once.  Maybe it'd be better if we all talked like the Elcor from Mass Effect and just outright stated our intended tone before everything we say.

I'm also mildly autistic, which has been mitigated greatly thanks to my upbringing, but it still allows for errors in judging others' statements on occasion.

But anyway, that scene is quite silly.  Even if there is any actual validity or justifying for Celica's arguments, there's no denying that it's very melodramatic and is designed to make Alm seem more level-headed.  It's especially irritating as someone who tries to appreciate "both sides" of any given argument and prefers when a story presents those in an unbiased and thoughtful manner... not to mention my feelings on the gender tropes rearing their ugly heads in full force.

6 hours ago, Armagon said:

The irony here is that Valbar is the leader of his trio (Valbar, Kamui, and Leon), yet he's the worst of the three, unit wise.

I mean... he fulfills the specific niche he has better than any of the other natural armor knights.  Or at least he did for me.  I know I brought him along for the Thabes Labyrinth, while the other two stayed back.  Then again, about half of my team either started as villagers or were given villager forks...

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2 minutes ago, Ertrick36 said:

It's cool.  I almost had a feeling this was more the case, but obviously the net is a difficult place to convey a respectful tone, so I had to take it assuming varying tones all at once.

I can't blame you, I can come off far too strong when I get fired up about a story or get into an argument with someone.

3 minutes ago, Ertrick36 said:

Maybe it'd be better if we all talked like the Elcor from Mass Effect and just outright stated our intended tone before everything we say.

Insincere endorsement: you have not heard Shakespeare until you have heard it in the voice of Elcor.

4 minutes ago, Ertrick36 said:

not to mention my feelings on the gender tropes rearing their ugly heads in full force.

Echoes is pretty bad at this in general. Alm saves all the women on his side, and the epilogues for most of the female cast members are not good. Then again, we just came from Fates where the main female characters conspicuously did not have legendary weapons, and only Elise had a role of any bigger importance of the sisters.

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Forsyth

I originally put Forsyth on the garbage pile along with Python and Clive. Despite being the profesionals none of the Deliverance join very strong. Forsyth wasn't an exception....and then he promoted. Suddenly Forsyth started to become useful, being able to take a good amount of damage(surprising huh?) and fill in when Lucas was to far away. 
The more I see of Forsyth's personality the more I like him. His super earnest behavior is endearing and his support with Lucas is one of the better ones.

Valbar

I like Valbar. He's remarkably well adjusted for someone with a murdered family. He sometimes brings them up and says their loss hurts but he's also depicted as someone who is ready to move on with his life. That's actually pretty rare. Valbar is also a pretty great guy, Leo's story about how Valbar kept making time for him until he recovered from the death of his first crush is a good indicator of that. 
I don't think Valbar is that bad of a unit. Its just that Celica's chapters conspire to limit his use. 

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18 hours ago, Thane said:

Yes, but getting pissed off, yelling at him and leaving suddenly after what was supposed to be a heartfelt reunion does not exactly guarantee his safety. In fact I'd wager it's the opposite.

She stormed off because she was frustrated about the way the conversation was going and realized that she wasn't going to be able to convince Alm that him leading the Deliverance was a bad idea. At that point, she felt completely powerless in her desire to protect Alm. In addition, she was also probably very disappointed that her long-awaited reunion with Alm turned out so terribly. It might have been executed in a melodramatic fashion, but it's at least more realistic than it would have been if she had simply accepted Alm's decision and moved on.

 

I also wonder if it has a sort of symbolic meaning. Alm and Celica couldn't compromise their ideals at that time, and so they couldn't make any progress and instead simply made the situation worse.

 

18 hours ago, Thane said:

Does she represent Mila's ideals? Mila fought against Duma. The Zofians want to fight against Rigel and unite behind Alm. Celica seems to be the only one who wants - and believes - in an implausible peaceful solution. I get what you're saying, and that Celica is supposed to represent Mila's ideals, but just like Alm does not represent Duma, the game is at odds with how to have Celica represent Mila's ideals.

I meant that she represented the more passive side of Mila's ideals. She's more likely than Alm to approach a situation more cautiously.

 

Also, I'm not sure that Mila fighting against Duma proves that she wasn't peaceful. We don't see how serious the fighting actually was in the game, and the game suggests that Mila never wanted to hurt her brother and cared for him deeply. For starters, in their memory prism, Mila calls their fight an "argument"; if they had been seriously fighting, calling it an argument would be a massive understatement. As discussed in the Valentian Revelations from the Amiibo dungeons, Mila went with Duma after he was exiled, showing that she cared a lot for her brother. In addition, near the end of the game, Mila chooses to seal the Falchion with herself to protect Duma, even though she knew that Duma must have given Rudolf the Falchion to attack her.

 

On a side note, I just noticed that Mila choosing to seal the Falchion and in essence sacrifice herself to protect Duma contributes to Celica choosing to sacrifice herself to protect Alm. That's kind of cool if it was an intentional parallel.

 

I here what you're saying about the Zofians uniting behind Alm, but this doesn't bother me too much because Celica is supposed to represent Mila's ideals in a pure form. Since she grew up in the Priory and is arguably the most devoted follower of Mila in the cast, it makes sense that she would follow Mila's teachings much more closely than the average Zofian.

 

One last thing I wanted to mention is where you say that peace is implausible. While you are correct, I wanted to point out that Rigel isn't portrayed as an evil nation. For thousands of years, Rigel had lived in a mutually beneficial peace with Zofia, and it's founder is Duma, a god who had been portrayed as benevolent before going insane and who is the brother to the goddess Celica is devoted to. It therefore makes some sense in my opinion that Celica wouldn't view Rigel as totally evil. I'll admit the game does a poor job in showing that Rigel isn't an evil country because we never see the time where Zofia and Rigel coexist peacefully.

 

18 hours ago, Thane said:

Gray points it out to Tobin, but is there anything that indicates that Alm believes they only need to drive the Rigelians off Zofian soil? Because it sounds like he's aware of it, and he doesn't seem surprised over having to continue marching into Rigel.

Alm says to Celica during their fight, "It doesn’t matter what sort of man he is. The Rigelian Empire chose to cross Zofia’s border—that’s a fact. We aim to drive back the invaders. Nothing more."

 

This shows that Alm may not have really considered the consequences of facing Rigel head on. I feel like I didn't make my point well in my last post, so let me try to restate it here. In my opinion, there are times in this conversation where Alm could be seen as being impulsive and unable to see the full picture (blaming the war completely on Lima and underestimating the difficulty of his task), which somewhat justifies Celica's reaction, in my opinion. There are also flashes of Alm being impulisve and failing to look at the big picture in other parts of the story. A good example would be when, over Lukas's objections, Alm rushes into battle when he hears brigands talking about kidnapping Silque. If they had developed these traits, then those could have been good character flaws. Unfortunately, Alm never shows those traits outside of a very few examples, and he never truly makes a mistake and suffers because of them. I feel like this was a huge missed opportunity that could have made the theme of balancing Alm's ideals and Celica's ideals work much better.

 

18 hours ago, Thane said:

Here's the problem with the scene being so incredibly short yet is supposed to convey a lot of information at once and set the foundation for the entire story: we don't know exactly what Alm is referring to here, and we don't have enough information about what Lima did to speculate.

I can agree with this. A lot of scenes in the game could have benefited from being longer.

 

As for today's characters:

 

Forsyth: I like his character from his supports and memory prism with Python. I haven't seen his DLC supports, but I've heard that they're very good. Unfortunately, he's a terrible unit who comes in a terrible class and won't have any use unless you reclass him.

 

Valbar: I like Valbar quite a bit. He has a good design and voice acting, and I think his support with Leon is one of the best in the game. He's not a good unit, but he's at least more useful than Forsyth. He joins Celica at a time when, unless you've been seriously grinding, all of your units will have 4 movement. He can therefore contribute some in Act 2. Unfortunately, he's almost completely worthless after that unless you reclass him. I reclassed him into a Dread Fighter after I beat the game, and he was an amazing unit who contributed a lot in Thabes.

Edited by CriticalMiss
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Day 2 is over, and with that, we are now onto Day 3!

Today's characters that we will discuss are Tatiana and Atlas.

What is your opinion on both of these characters?

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'll jump into giving my opinions on these characters straight away.

Tatiana: Noel Vermillion in a Fire Emblem game. That's what I think of Tatianna whenever I see her nowadays. Don't believe me? Let's look at the similarities between these two characters:

  • Both are voiced by Christina Vee? Check.
  • Both have long hair? Check.
  • Both are very clumsy? Check.
  • Both are terrible cooks? Check.
  • Both have a special bond with men that are voiced by Patrick Seitz, and said men happen to be blondes as well (Ragna was blonde before Rachel bit him)? Check.
  • Both watched over/took care of men voiced by Patrick Seitz for a period of time (Tatiana taking care of Zeke after he washed ashore, while Noel stayed with Ragna as he recovered in Litchi's clinic early into the BlazBlue series)? Check.
  • Both have some degree of self-consciousness toward themselves (Noel is self-conscious over many things, while Tatiana demonstrates this trait when admitting she is a terrible and selfish person for not wanting Zeke to regain his memories)? Check.
  • Both work as nuns? Check.

Yeah, I know a lot of these are just mere coincidences, but I can't help but pinpoint the number of similarities these two characters have.

As for everything else about Tatiana, she's alright. I had a good laugh in her recruitment when she played a guessing game over who was the Deliverance's leader. It was also cool getting to learn about her backstory in regards to how she became a Rigelian saint and what her life was like leading up to the day she found Zeke. Her and Zeke are cute together, and while their support does not stand out compared to others, I thought it was enjoyable.

As a unit, I haven't used as much as Cleric!Faye or Silque, but goodness what a clutch she was in the endgame map! Her Fortify was a great recovery move against that Upheaval spell Duma used every now and then.

Tatiana's design is alright. She looks pretty, and she wears some elegant clothes. Her voice acting is good too.

Atlas: Unpopular opinion incoming... I actually really enjoy him as a character! His first base conversation alone was enough for me to get attached to him. I had a good laugh at the way he brought up that story of how he discovered some bugs underneath a rock, only for Celica to stop him from talking further because she felt grossed out. Thanks to his rural upbringings, he also brings some interesting worldviews to the army (such as his mountain talk in his second base conversation). I appreciate Atlas's honesty and the way he values his family. I also sympathize with his homesickness and how he does his best to adjust into his new life in Celica's army. Overall, Atlas is one of those characters who I never imagined I'd be attached to but grew to like upon experiencing the character for myself. It's a shame that he didn't have more support conversations or more story dialogue in general. I mean, a special boss dialogue between Atlas and Grieth was a missed opportunity!

Atlas proved to be a really good Dread Fighter from my experience using him. His Strength stat was so good that I didn't need to give him a sword. I just gave him a shield to improve his Defense, and he proved to be a very valuable unit.

His voice is enjoyable to listen to, and I like his design as well. Yes, his upper body is largely exposed save for vest-like mini coat, a single shoulder pad, and some finger gloves, but it's one of those fan service designs that isn't too "in your face" IMO.

Edited by Erureido
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Tatiana is such a lovable character for me. I quite like the way she's in love, but she's not perfect, while genuinely trying to improve and not make Zeke feel bad for him. She blows Silque out of the water gameplay-wise, but doesn't measure up to Faye. You'd think I'd have a little more bias to the woman who can literally pull pegasi out of her ears, wouldn't you?

I... don't have anything to say about Atlas. He's screaming, but...

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Tatiana

I do like Tatiana a lot... even if in some ways she's a bit of an accessory to Zeke. She's a cutie nonetheless, and having someone to spam Fortify with is never a bad thing. Somehow I didn't expect her to have the personality and voice she does when I first saw her new design, though? I can't really explain why but it feels a smidge unfitting in some way. I guess that isn't such a big deal, but it just caught me off guard a bit.

 

Atlas

Atlas is Part 2 of 4 of Tiddy Emblem, so already he was off to a good start with me. I actually ended up liking him a lot more than I expected to! He's remarkably dorky in some of his interactions with Celica, which is just endlessly endearing to me. It certainly helps that he ended up being the best Archer in the game by a damn mile, and really wrecked shop with the Killer Bow. Plus, goddamn, just LOOK at him; aside from the hair he's basically exactly the kinda dude I'm into.

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7 hours ago, CriticalMiss said:

It might have been executed in a melodramatic fashion, but it's at least more realistic than it would have been if she had simply accepted Alm's decision and moved on.

I disagree. It took her less than three minutes to storm off from her best friend, the man she loves and the guy she left Novis to protect. Melodramatic and contrived doesn't begin to cover this, and the whole conversation reads like someone who has no idea how people interact or have an argument.

7 hours ago, CriticalMiss said:

I also wonder if it has a sort of symbolic meaning. Alm and Celica couldn't compromise their ideals at that time, and so they couldn't make any progress and instead simply made the situation worse.

Given how the game completely misses the mark with its themes, it would be fitting if this scene was supposed to illustrate that.

7 hours ago, CriticalMiss said:

For starters, in their memory prism, Mila calls their fight an "argument"

And the narrator, whose unbiased view we're never given a reason to doubt, says the two clashed ceaselessly, and that it was a "long, dark age". 

7 hours ago, CriticalMiss said:

While you are correct, I wanted to point out that Rigel isn't portrayed as an evil nation.

This does not matter. They invaded Zofia, which was on the breaking point. The people are starving, the crops are failing, bandits are ravaging the country and the northern half is occupied; Celica wanting to talk to Rudolf doesn't even come across as naïve, but rather just makes her look dumb.

If the game had focused on Celica getting angry for Alm essentially doing her job, then I could've bought their conflict more. It would've been an interesting way to show how she wants to help, but can't. Naturally, this would make Alm look even better than he already does, and that's the last thing he needs, so they'd need to adjust his personality for that approach to have meaning.

7 hours ago, CriticalMiss said:

Alm says to Celica during their fight, "It doesn’t matter what sort of man he is. The Rigelian Empire chose to cross Zofia’s border—that’s a fact. We aim to drive back the invaders. Nothing more."

Come on, man. He obviously means he'll pacify Rigel. Do you think he pushes them back to the border, claps his hands and then goes "a job well done, everyone, now they can't hurt anyone again"? Driving back the invaders means he'll render them unable to attack again, otherwise their struggle would've been for naught.

As for today's characters...

Tatiana

Cleric Sumia but with less personality. Tied to Zeke and she barely has a line that doesn't mention him. 

Atlas

I like him. Simple, but with a personality that makes sense and is surprisingly endearing.

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Tatiana: For some reason, she reminds me of both Natasha and Serra. I dunno why, but she does. Anyway! I like her, I like the way they wrote her character and I like the way she pairs up with Zeke. And holy crap, she was INCREDIBLY useful on the battlefield! I leveled her up as quickly as possible! Bonus points for a good design.

Atlas: I don't have much to say about him. He's a fine character, he's fine as a unit, and I'm mostly neutral on his character. He's fine.

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Tatiana

Could talk a bit about her as a unit, but as a character...  Hmm, probably one of the least interesting playable characters in Alm's route.  She saved Zeke and loves him.  There's a little bit more to her, but it's a minuscule effort to make her seem like she's anything but a lover for a more developed character.  For me, she's essentially Rinea, except with more screen time, a bit more of a personality, and her lover isn't a pompous, immature bastard who'd sell her soul just so that he could beat his cousin in a fight.  In that sense, her love interest actually makes more sense.

Atlas Shrugged

Do you like my references to books written by a racist, selfish PoS?  He's alright.  In spite of him having about the same amount of screen time as Taty, he has more to his character.  A dude being a better character than a female in Shadows of Valentia?  Go figure...  That being said, he's probably the least interesting character in Celica's route save for Nomah or maybe Deen (dunno much about the latter).  He is just as much a victim of limited supports as anyone else...

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Tatiana

She's a bit to minor a character but she's pretty good. I like her and Zeke, she seems a good fit for him and her recruitment was amusing. Her healing also blew Silqe out of the water pretty consistently. 

Atlas

A tad worthless of a unit but he's an okay guy. I don't like him but don't dislike him either. Bad performance aside I'm pretty neutral on the guy.

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Tatiana: Nice girl. Decent personailty even if it mostly revolves around Zeke. As a unit, she's definitly better than Silque. She does lose to Cleric!Faye though, because Faye's Support bonuses with Alm are absolutely broken.

Atlas:

16 hours ago, Erureido said:

Unpopular opinion incoming... I actually really enjoy him as a character!

Wait, that's an unpopular opinion? I thought people liked Atlas as a character. I know i do. He's one of my favorite characters on Celica's route. And as a unit, he didn't turn out as bad as people say he is and that's on multiple playthroughs. He certianly turned out to be a better Mercenary than Jesse.

Spoiler

I mean, i am that guy who uses Sophia in every Binding Blade playthrough, so i suppose i've kinda grown numb to what is considered a "bad unit".

 

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