Fire Emblem 4 Echoes Ideas

[Tetragrammaton]

On 4/11/2018 at 5:07 AM, Lewyn said:

Was it the reason stated why those conversations were cut?  

I don't really know, the scripts are mostly events in chapter 0 and chapter 1, while they give more detail about the characters (like how Ethlin is bossy with Sigurd and his father, and now it's Cuan's turn to suffer the same fate...), they don't really contribute much in term of gameplay, ie no love point, no new item or stat buff, really nothing, just a little chit chat here and there.

Maybe that's why they were cut, as early ideas were scrapped to reduced work, so they don't have to add similar dialogues to all remaining characters, you know, the support system was not invented yet.

Except for the Noish/Alec convo in chapter 5, where other units say last word to their spouses, maybe it was cut because of too much yaoi.

18 hours ago, Spatha said:

Based on Faye's addition in SoV. What do you think of the idea of adding a Catria/Cordelia expy at the beginning of the game?

She would be a female cavalier, a comrade in arms alongside the three knights of Chalpy, a best friend to Ethlyn and one who develops an unrequited love towards Sigurd?

Unlike Faye though, she would be much more likable in her internal struggles as she bonds with Deirdre and finds a new love to move on although her relationship with her children would be similar to Severa and Cordelia's rocky relationship.

In case of FE4, once you add a female with fertility to gen1, you need to add at least 2 children and 2 subs for them in gen 2, and to balance the total number of playable units in both gens, 1 more male unit should be added for gen 1.

So, to add just 1 unit, you need to add at least 6 total.

[Jotari]

1 minute ago, hanhnn said:

I don't really know, the scripts are mostly events in chapter 0 and chapter 1, while they give more detail about the characters (like how Ethlin is bossy with Sigurd and his father, and now it's Cuan's turn to suffer the same fate...), they don't really contribute much in term of gameplay, ie no love point, no new item or stat buff, really nothing, just a little chit chat here and there.

Maybe that's why they were cut, as early ideas were scrapped to reduced work, so they don't have to add similar dialogues to all remaining characters, you know, the support system was not invented yet.

Except for the Noish/Alec convo in chapter 5, where other units say last word to their spouses, maybe it was cut because of too much yaoi.

In case of FE4, once you add a female with fertility to gen1, you need to add at least 2 children and 2 subs for them in gen 2, and to balance the total number of playable units in both gens, 1 more male unit should be added for gen 1.

So, to add just 1 unit, you need to add at least 6 total.

Well you could add an infertile female. Now there's an interesting gimmick!

[wheelsonfire]

Not sure if this has already been said, but please have the game do something about the fact that you can spare some units... For example, if you play your cards right, you can spare Ishtar and other villains, but the game doesn't act any differently if you do... The game after that did add a capture mechanic that allowed players to capture and release enemies, but all that came out of it was a bit of different dialogue and some weapons (not counting those that were recruitable through capture). I feel like it's something that could really have some potential, but it really needs to be refined...

On another topic, bring back a way to save Julius (well, that was never in the game to begin with, but it was in the original notes). I would have liked to see that, and then maybe some expansion about him redeeming himself or otherwise fighting against the possession... I know a part of the tragedy was eventually to kill him, but the characters don't react much so it's more of a tragedy to the player, who still doesn't know him very well anyway...

Also, I feel like the entire Loptyr part should be rewritten... Arvis mentions that there are members who fought for the good of the people, (including another crusader) and the designer's notes stated that not everyone who worshiped Loptyr was evil, but the way the game treats that, it may as well be a mere afterthought. This is particularly jarring seeing as there are two non-evil members with Loptyr blood in the player's party (and even more if you count the next game in the series) yet no one makes any mention of it... It's something that could really be expanded upon, but is not.

Also, could translations please fix the inconsistency with Ishtar? In FE4, she's referred to as Princess, and does not lead her country. Yet in the game after that, she's referred to as Queen. This could be an error, except it's used in the entire game, and, she acts like the top authority to report to. This is despite the fact that both her parents are alive at this point... So, what is she?

[Jotari]

37 minutes ago, wheelsonfire said:

Not sure if this has already been said, but please have the game do something about the fact that you can spare some units... For example, if you play your cards right, you can spare Ishtar and other villains, but the game doesn't act any differently if you do... The game after that did add a capture mechanic that allowed players to capture and release enemies, but all that came out of it was a bit of different dialogue and some weapons (not counting those that were recruitable through capture). I feel like it's something that could really have some potential, but it really needs to be refined...

On another topic, bring back a way to save Julius (well, that was never in the game to begin with, but it was in the original notes). I would have liked to see that, and then maybe some expansion about him redeeming himself or otherwise fighting against the possession... I know a part of the tragedy was eventually to kill him, but the characters don't react much so it's more of a tragedy to the player, who still doesn't know him very well anyway...

Also, I feel like the entire Loptyr part should be rewritten... Arvis mentions that there are members who fought for the good of the people, (including another crusader) and the designer's notes stated that not everyone who worshiped Loptyr was evil, but the way the game treats that, it may as well be a mere afterthought. This is particularly jarring seeing as there are two non-evil members with Loptyr blood in the player's party (and even more if you count the next game in the series) yet no one makes any mention of it... It's something that could really be expanded upon, but is not.

Also, could translations please fix the inconsistency with Ishtar? In FE4, she's referred to as Princess, and does not lead her country. Yet in the game after that, she's referred to as Queen. This could be an error, except it's used in the entire game, and, she acts like the top authority to report to. This is despite the fact that both her parents are alive at this point... So, what is she?

Ishtar is queen by virtue of the fact that she betrothed to Julius I imagine. I can't recall anyone ever calling her Queen or reporting to her in any official capacity though.

What two members of your party have Lopt blood? There's Deirdre and...Alvis? But he's not a member of your party. Maybe you thought Julia has lopt blood, she doesn't, neither does Seliph despite their mother having it. There's also nobody in Thracia with confirmed lopt blood (except for Julius). None of the crusaders fought for the good of the people, the person Alvis was talking about was Maria (he has a less feminine sounding official name now, but I like calling a dude Maria) who is his decedent via his mother. He rebelled and failed to defeat the lopt empire a few decades before the crusaders. None of his descendants have any connection to the crusaders (that we know of!).

A pretty nice cameo that could make the Lopt church be a bit more nuanced (and actually give us a dark magic user) could be if Salem was added to the game as just another ally of Leif's when you first encounter him in Chapter 7.

Edited April 12, 2018 by Jotari

[wheelsonfire]

@Jotari

Oops, I thought that Julia had Lopt, but I forgot she has Fala…

 

No one reports her in any official capacity in FE4. And she is betrothed to Julius from the beginning I think… Furthermore, FE5 acts like she's the queen of her home country from the beginning with Julius asking her why her father is unwilling to fight (when he could've just asked him himself if he was above her)… There's also a dispute where Fred says that he will report the matter to Queen Ishtar, and it's between Freege, meaning she's the prime authority there… It gets even weirder considering that Hilda is also mentioned and referred to as Queen, but it's never said of what, only that she's currently in Alster… Not to mention that Reinhart reports to Ishtar, and is constantly calling her Queen... It's pretty confusing, especially since I read Fe5 script first, and then learned FE4 plot… So I was confused when she was called Queen and had no one to answer to, but then was called Princess and had to answer to her parents…

[Jotari]

13 minutes ago, wheelsonfire said:

@Jotari

Oops, I thought that Julia had Lopt, but I forgot she has Fala…

 

No one reports her in any official capacity in FE4. And she is betrothed to Julius from the beginning I think… Furthermore, FE5 acts like she's the queen of her home country from the beginning with Julius asking her why her father is unwilling to fight (when he could've just asked him himself if he was above her)… There's also a dispute where Fred says that he will report the matter to Queen Ishtar, and it's between Freege, meaning she's the prime authority there… It gets even weirder considering that Hilda is also mentioned and referred to as Queen, but it's never said of what, only that she's currently in Alster… Not to mention that Reinhart reports to Ishtar, and is constantly calling her Queen... It's pretty confusing, especially since I read Fe5 script first, and then learned FE4 plot… So I was confused when she was called Queen and had no one to answer to, but then was called Princess and had to answer to her parents…

Why did you read Thracia's plot before reading Genealogy of Holy War? That's just...bizzare. Anyway, Julius was just casually talking to Ishatar (they are sort of a couple), if he really cared he could have gone to Bloom directly. Reinhardt is also Ishtar's personal body guard, so it's natural that he'd report to her. Not sure what Fred is talking about, can't remember the context of that. The long and the short of it though, is that, as daughter of Bloom and future wife of Julius, Ishtar has a lot of unofficial power.

[Shadow Mir]

19 hours ago, Jotari said:

You know you can save mid map in Genealogy of the Holy War, right? A lot of people seem to miss that fact (probably because the option outright disappears if you move a unit, when it should probably go grey and unselectable). You're not expected to sit down and put two hours into each map, you can stop half way through and come back later and even reset to that point if someone dies. That's why each chapter is divided into several distinct parts. I see people complain about how long it takes to finish Holy War's chapters, but it seems like such a illogical complaint to me. The game only has 12 of em, it takes roughly the same amount of time to finish as every other title in the series. Yeah, there's some slog with dead turns moving units around, but minute for minute, the game's no more of an investment than any other.

I know about that, but imho, it's the very definition of "small comfort", especially since it's only usable at the beginning of a turn. I feel the big maps just break the immersion of the game big time, in addition to being a massive chore to go through (see: the last part of chapter 1, and after Anphomy in chapter 2)... That ain't exactly my idea of a good time. So I fail to see how it's no less of a time investment than any other FE game.

[Jotari]

3 minutes ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

I know about that, but imho, it's the very definition of "small comfort", especially since it's only usable at the beginning of a turn. I feel the big maps just break the immersion of the game big time, in addition to being a massive chore to go through (see: the last part of chapter 1, and after Anphomy in chapter 2)... That ain't exactly my idea of a good time. So I fail to see how it's no less of a time investment than any other FE game.

It's no less a time investment, because it takes no more time than any other game.

[Shadow Mir]

1 hour ago, Jotari said:

It's no less a time investment, because it takes no more time than any other game.

Which I honestly find ridiculous when other than the prologue, most maps are big enough to need at least an hour's worth of play to complete... outside of the lategame, I don't need that much time to clear chapters in most other FEs.

[wheelsonfire]

@Jotari

This was years ago, when I first found out the Japanese only Fire Emblems existed. There was a complete script translation for Fire Emblem 5 at the time, but not much out for Fire Emblem 4. Therefore, I read Fire Emblem 5's script without realizing the two were connected... Also, I didn't have access to Emulation or translation patches until much later, so I couldn't play the games and read the script myself... I remember eventually a Fire Emblem 4 script did come out, but it took a long time and was very slow... I had to settle for partial scripts for while, which was annoying... Oddly enough, I don't remember any other FE having this problem... Maybe, the fourth just has more dialogue?

[darkblade2814]

I was looking at the list of characters in FE 4, and there is males who will be single, so you can add females whitout having to add more males

[Jotari]

22 minutes ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

Which I honestly find ridiculous when other than the prologue, most maps are big enough to need at least an hour's worth of play to complete... outside of the lategame, I don't need that much time to clear chapters in most other FEs.

You're really not listening to what I'm saying. Spending 12 hours on 12 maps isn't a bigger time investment then spending 12 hours on 24 maps, because you're still spending 12 hours. Unlike most other games Genealogy of the Holy War only has 12 maps. Most games have twice that many at minimum.

Edited April 12, 2018 by Jotari

[Shadow Mir]

On 4/12/2018 at 4:20 PM, Jotari said:

You're really not listening to what I'm saying. Spending 12 hours on 12 maps isn't a bigger time investment then spending 12 hours on 24 maps, because you're still spending 12 hours. Unlike most other games Genealogy of the Holy War only has 12 maps. Most games have twice that many at minimum.

Except due to backtracking and terrain abuse, that could easily go over an hour, especially after factoring in the slow enemy phases.

[Jotari]

12 minutes ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

Except due to backtracking and terrain abuse, that could easily go over an hour, especially after factoring in the slow enemy phases.

Yeah, if you don't like that, then that's fine. That's just boring gameplay (and not even limited to Genealogy, certain maps in Binding Blade are much worse). But that's a different complaint than saying Genealogy of Holy War chapters are bad because they take twice as long to finish as chapters in other games is illogical when they're deigned to take longer to finish. That's why there's half as many of them.

And now before we get into a bit long off topic argument on yet another thread, take a moment to realise that's not something you ever actually said, so you have no reason to defend the statement. It's just a comment I made on a frequently seen complaint about the game.

[DemolisherBPB]

15 hours ago, Jotari said:

Genealogy of Holy War chapters are bad because they take twice as long to finish as chapters in other games is illogical

See the reason this is even more true is the fact you'r more than likely playing on an emulator, Now, most emulators have a "Speed Up" Button, Sure my Genealogy save ran up to 199 Hours from me over using the speed up but who cares? That time means nothing. (I may have gone to make drinks ect, and left it sped up...)

Now if your actually playing on a SFC then god speed to you. Or like, the 3ds or WiiU versions. But Emulation, use that speed up function.

[Acacia Sgt]

If speed is really a concern, there's always the option to put unit movement on Fast in the options menu, and/or turn battle animations Off. Certainly, the latter can add up minutes to each chapter...

Anyway, I'm pretty sure a few of the games still take longer on average. Specially since latter stages can take up the better part of an hour due to map size and enemy density. And then paralogues were brought back as well, adding even more time. Genealogy can at most only feel long, but as mentioned already, it's not actually any more longer than the average FE game.

[Slumber]

6 hours ago, DemolisherBPB said:

See the reason this is even more true is the fact you'r more than likely playing on an emulator, Now, most emulators have a "Speed Up" Button, Sure my Genealogy save ran up to 199 Hours from me over using the speed up but who cares? That time means nothing. (I may have gone to make drinks ect, and left it sped up...)

Now if your actually playing on a SFC then god speed to you. Or like, the 3ds or WiiU versions. But Emulation, use that speed up function.

I mean, modern FEs have speed-up and flat-out skip options. I don't think this would even be a concern in a remake. You can skip the entire enemy phase if you want. 

[Jave]

7 hours ago, DemolisherBPB said:

See the reason this is even more true is the fact you'r more than likely playing on an emulator, Now, most emulators have a "Speed Up" Button, Sure my Genealogy save ran up to 199 Hours from me over using the speed up but who cares? That time means nothing. (I may have gone to make drinks ect, and left it sped up...)

Now if your actually playing on a SFC then god speed to you. Or like, the 3ds or WiiU versions. But Emulation, use that speed up function.

I'll add to this that playing FE4 for ranks on a console is absolutely painful because it means restarting a map from the beginning in case a unit dies. Which ties to another design flaw in FE4 with the lack of a "Restart Chapter" option. Because of this, you're essentially forced to use at least two save files (most people would recommend three) for a single FE4 run.

Mind you, I don't consider this to be a huge deal in the potential of a remake since I fully expect this to be fixed. If it isn't, well, then IntSys' priorities on remakes are worse than I thought.

[Tetragrammaton]

28 minutes ago, Jave said:

I'll add to this that playing FE4 for ranks on a console is absolutely painful because it means restarting a map from the beginning in case a unit dies. Which ties to another design flaw in FE4 with the lack of a "Restart Chapter" option. Because of this, you're essentially forced to use at least two save files (most people would recommend three) for a single FE4 run.

Mind you, I don't consider this to be a huge deal in the potential of a remake since I fully expect this to be fixed. If it isn't, well, then IntSys' priorities on remakes are worse than I thought.

So now you're complaining because FE4 gives you 4 slots to save per chapter at any turn?

[Jave]

2 minutes ago, hanhnn said:

So now you're complaining because FE4 gives you 4 slots to save per chapter at any turn?

No, I'm mentioning how it's a legit design flaw. You wouldn't need to use more than one per playthrough by simply adding the proper menu options (which every FE since has had).

[Jotari]

43 minutes ago, Jave said:

I'll add to this that playing FE4 for ranks on a console is absolutely painful because it means restarting a map from the beginning in case a unit dies. Which ties to another design flaw in FE4 with the lack of a "Restart Chapter" option. Because of this, you're essentially forced to use at least two save files (most people would recommend three) for a single FE4 run.

Mind you, I don't consider this to be a huge deal in the potential of a remake since I fully expect this to be fixed. If it isn't, well, then IntSys' priorities on remakes are worse than I thought.

Shadow Dragon split it's map saves and chapter saves, so that's a good bet.

[Tetragrammaton]

10 minutes ago, Jave said:

No, I'm mentioning how it's a legit design flaw. You wouldn't need to use more than one per playthrough by simply adding the proper menu options (which every FE since has had).

old design isn't design flaw.

It's fine as it is, you can always restart a chapter if you don't overwrite the save.

[Jave]

1 minute ago, hanhnn said:

old design isn't design flaw.

It's fine as it is, you can always restart a chapter if you don't overwrite the save.

It is a flaw, the ranking system is design around it.

Don't justify bad with old. The NES games' UI is old because it was limited by its time. Lack of Restart on a SNES game is bad design.

[Acacia Sgt]

11 minutes ago, Jave said:

Don't justify bad with old. The NES games' UI is old because it was limited by its time. Lack of Restart on a SNES game is bad design.

Really? You mention it doesn't have an option on the menu... but no Soft-Reset either?

[Jave]

1 minute ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Really? You mention it doesn't have an option on the menu... but no Soft-Reset either?

I meant Restart in the sense of a Restart menu option, not a soft-reset (it would have been nice, but I won't hold the game against that). Sorry if that wasn't clear.