Was Faye a deconstruction?

[Alistair]

I've just come out of a conversation with another SoV fan and they raised an interesting point: that Faye could be read as a sort of deconstruction of the "anime" style of character writing employed by Awakening and especially Fates, specifically with the main character-worship done by the likes of Camilla and Hinoka. The idea is that while in Fates that behavior is treated as normal it's perceived as abnormal by the SoV cast vis-a-vis Faye, especially in her A Support with Alm, which IIRC implied that it could be a result of dealing with the trauma of going to war. 

 

Now, I'm not saying that the Fates/Awakening casts were all cookie-cutter or were completely devoid of deeper substance or that the same thing is true for Faye, just that it's a way of adding metatextual weight to Faye's character. Personally I don't buy it because Faye never seems to grow out of that crush towards Alm nor is there being a moment in her Supports where she's called out on (at least on the surface) being ONLY being concerned with Alm. I just want to know: what do you think?

[Nobody]

It's not. Faye isn't a "reflection" on this sort of character, and I don't think the other characters treat her any differently from how Fates' and Awakenings' cast treat Camilla and Tharja. She's just the same sort of (bad) character.
Faye is just as awful as the other two. Her average (rather than creepy) design just masks how fucked up the character is. There's no deeper substance or meaning in Faye.

Edited August 15, 2017 by Nobody

[Rex Glacies]

I personally believe that Faye was an experiment by Intelligent Systems to see how popular yanderes actually are among the fandom. The previous two (Tharja and Camilla) are different from Faye in that they wear immodest clothing and are attracted to the player character, an avatar. Therefore, I think Faye was designed to see if those two traits (immodesty and attracted to the player) were a crucial reason people liked them, and if people would enjoy a character who has a similar personality yet lacks those two traits.

As for the theory, that is rather interesting. I would agree in some sense - that Faye's actions were toned down from the "over-the-top" characters from Fates and Awakening, however, much like what you said, she is never criticized for only paying attention to Alm, and she never seems to grow out of it either. (Plus, if I recall correctly, she has the same crush in the prologue, which would negate the "war trauma" hypothesis.)

[Castello]

I feel like calling Faye a good character is a stretch. Maybe if she was given time to develop or if we saw more of her character she would have worked. SoV however gives her hardly any time to really develop as a character. Her supports with Silque don't really tell us anything about Faye that we don't already know other than she is pretty cold. We get very little backstory to really explain what the hell is wrong with her. You could say by evidence that the prologue to SoV scarred her (and probably Kliff as well) but she probably needed another support to actually expand on her feelings.

If IS wanted to make Faye the 'anti-Camilla' they would have approached her in a comedic fashion, like they did with the trailer and mocking the pair up feature. In actuality, Faye is a character that is designed for us to pity her, but they give us no reason to really do so. Like Camilla and Tharja, she is just creepy and fanservice. She needed more time to actually shine.

Edited August 15, 2017 by DietCocaine

[Von Ithipathachai]

I look at the idea of Faye being a deconstruction the same way that I do the idea of Camilla being mentally ill:  It definitely makes here character more interesting, but was probably unintentional on the writers' parts.

Edited August 15, 2017 by Von Ithipathachai

[Lightchao42]

I don't think that Faye was meant to satirize any character in particular, Fire Emblem or otherwise, but I think she was designed to examine how someone with a single minded love for another would come across in a (somewhat) realistic fashion. So yeah, even though she's probably not a response to previous characters or anything.

The main difference between Faye and other people with crushes in past games is that Faye's crush and the way she expresses it is treated as abnormal and unhealthy in-universe; Alm is clearly unnerved by Faye "killing people in his name" (which is probably influenced by the war having a negative impact on her psyche) and her family notes that she only writes about Alm, whereas Cordelia's crush on Chrom is more healthy in comparison. Faye's often seen as "fanservice", but I think she's meant to be more sad and pitiful than attractive. Giving her more depth would distract from that, in my opinion.

But where do the Tharja/Camilla comparisons come from? If anyone she's more influenced by Cordelia.

[Zapp Branniglenn]

I think they were approaching something like this with her Silque support. But that doesn't resolve Faye's attraction toward Alm, nor does it portray Faye as having become a more social person through Silque's friendship. And I really wish that Alm's theory that the war stress was taking a toll on her ended up being true, but she's just as infatuated with him before they leave the village, and even during the prologue. 

To be honest, I don't think Faye was intended to be anything like Tharja or Camilla at first. Since her visual design probably came before a single line of dialogue was written. I bet the crush on Alm idea came after they came up with concepts for the Phoenix Wright mode, where it feels like characters are speaking to you, not the protagonist.

[TheWill]

I don't see Faye as a deconstruction, I don't think she was ever intended to be seen that way as the lovestruck and obsessive-type of characters often end up being seen as endearing (and polarising) to certain sections of the audience.

Faye is the 'obsessive' character done the least cringey and embarrassing, however.

[DaloDask]

Faye is like the other two. The difference is, they have background and other such elements, while Faye is simply that archetype personified because anyone without a role in the narrative of Echoes comes across as an incredibly simple and somewhat one-note character.

The only difference is that Alm has a conclusive 'No' as the answer, whereas with the other two, despite their clear obsession for Robin and Corrin, the player is never given the option to 'Reject' them in the same way Alm rejects Faye. You can marry them to others for a roundabout rejection, but that's still not as direct as Faye's.

The reason Faye comes across as any different is the simple fact that she can be rejected completely. She still obsesses over Alm, even after being remarried after the events of the game, and she still fights for him despite being rejected. You could make the argument it's simply the result of the different styles of writing/supports in the games, which makes it seem as though Faye is somehow different from the other two in this specific aspect, when in reality she is just the same, there's just less Faye in general.

She isn't a deconstruction in any way except one, in relation to the game's themes about compromise and all that jazz as an example of what happens when one refuses to compromise with reality. This makes her a better fit for her respective game than Camilla and Tharja, but also leaves her as a barebones character in comparison to those you compare her to, in much the same way as Leon does at times.

tl;dr Faye is the same as them. She just fits better in her respective game, yet lacks the other stuff that could make Camilla and Tharja enjoyable beyond those aspects.

Also, that 'I think the war is taking a toll on her' is only in the localisation. It may have been implied in the original script, but it was never outright stated in the same manner.

[NekoKnight]

The writing suggests that her behavior is problematic, but it never really goes as far as being a deconstruction. She is probably most similar to Tharja, in that while she's not mentally ill, her obsession and surrounding behavior are inappropriate.

I think it would have been interesting if Faye was a cautionary tale of being too stagnant in one's life, but there would have to be more dialogue diving into how she's unble to change and it brought her misery.

[Armagon]

Oh boy, another Faye thread. Last one was done months ago. I thought we were done with these. 

Anyway, Faye isn't a deconstruction. I did my own analysis of her a while back. While there wasn't much, i'd like to discuss somethings. For example, the "war-trauma" thing. This comes from Faye's lines where she says she'll kill Alm's enemies in his name. The thing is, her C and B Supports with Alm are the only time in the game where she mentions wanting to kill someone. Rewind to the beginning of Act 1. She's against joining the Deliverence because "it's too dangerous". Fast-forward to her A-Support with Alm. She mentions wanting to live a peaceful life with him, one free of battles.

As for her love with Alm, she had it in the prolouge, but i imagine those feelings amplified after Alm saved her from Slayde. 

While she never moves on from the fact that Alm rejected her, she's at least able to accept it. In her A-Support with Alm, she states how she knew that a romantic relationship between her and Alm would never happen. 

If there's one thing i wish i would expand upon, it's Faye's friendship with the other Ram Villagers+Celica. She's clearly shown to be friends with them in the prolouge, and fast forward 7 years, if Celica tries to recruit Faye, Faye talks about how she missed her and asks if she can join her on her quest. Hell, Faye is good friends with Mycen. Unfortuantly, due to SoV's limited supports, we never get to see these friendships expanded upon.

10 hours ago, Lightchao42 said:

But where do the Tharja/Camilla comparisons come from? If anyone she's more influenced by Cordelia.

I'd argue she's actually more influenced by Marisha. Marisha, who appeared in FE3/12, was basically the same as Faye, except depicted in a more comedic manner. Both realize that their crush (Marth for Marisha and Alm for Faye) is destined to be with someone else (Caeda and Celica respectivly) and accept it. And both of their endings aren't the best either. Marisha disappears and it's implied she becomes a "bad girl" and Faye occasioanlly disappears on her new family. 

I think the reason most people compare Faye with Tharja and Camilla is because the latter two are in recent memory. To be honest, this comparison is inaccurate. Aside from wanting to kill enemies in Alm's name, Faye doesn't display the yandere characteristics that Tharja and Camilla have. The one big thing that makes Faye actually better than both Tharja and Camilla is that she never tries to hurt Alm. Tharja puts a curse on Robin simply to have an excuse to take care of him. Birthright!Camilla outright tries to kill Corrin as an act of love. But not once does Faye ever put Alm in harm's way.

One could argue that Tharja and Camilla had more to them, and while true, Tharja and Camilla existed in a game where they could Support with almost everybody. Faye, on the other hand, exists in a game where there's only limited Supports, and she can only Support with two people, even if theoretically, she should be able to support with more.

[Darros]

11 hours ago, Von Ithipathachai said:

I look at the idea of Faye being a deconstruction the same way that I do the idea of Camilla being mentally ill:  It definitely makes here character more interesting, but was probably unintentional on the writers' parts.

I believe the game outright mentions that Camilla has depression in birthright, we just don't get to see it because it's behind closed doors. Still, it's not spectacularly written but it's more than Not Mentioned At All.

 

I feel like with Faye we really just don't know as much about her if I'm being dead honest. FE15 having not as many supports was probably a good thing in terms of writing because we didn't really get any/many shitty ones, but it does leave me wanting to know a bit more about some of the characters and some of their personality traits. It would've been great to see Faye and Kliff support for example (also it would make them have a mutual support on Celica).

[Etrurian emperor]

Its possible Faye was meant as a deconstruction. Her ending does imply she's not really in good mental health.

Its also possible Faye was genuinely meant to be charming and that we are supposed to feel bad for her. Both the crazy stalker and the doomed crush have produced very popular characters so IS may have thought combing them was a good move.

[onmyoji]

2 hours ago, Armagon said:

And both of their endings aren't the best either. Marisha disappears and it's implied she becomes a "bad girl" and Faye occasionally disappears on her new family. 

I don't really understand about that part of the ending. When they mention "vanishing without notice for days", does it mean she went looking for Alm?

[Thane]

56 minutes ago, onmyoji said:

I don't really understand about that part of the ending. When they mention "vanishing without notice for days", does it mean she went looking for Alm?

Most certainly, as the previous sentence talks about how she never got over him.

Anyway, did I miss some secret stash of characterization for Faye? There is not enough to Faye as a character, nor is there enough dialogue or lines written about her for her to serve as a deconstruction of anything. A deconstruction means picking apart a trope and commenting on it, and Faye only plays her trope straight. What separates her from other characters who are largely defined by their attraction to someone is that she confesses her love and gets rejected, which could have served as an interesting turning point in her character, but nothing is ever done with this.

Kreia was a deconstruction of the Star Wars morality system. She was with you from the very beginning and discussed these things in great, extensive detail, and showed her point of view through action. That is a deconstruction. Faye almost exclusively talks about Alm, and her interaction with other cast members is miniscule; there is simply not enough written, shown or discussed about Faye's actions that would ever justify her as being a deconstruction.

[Armagon]

1 hour ago, onmyoji said:

I don't really understand about that part of the ending. When they mention "vanishing without notice for days", does it mean she went looking for Alm?

You know, they never say, as is the case with most "disappeared" endings. Alm is gonna be at Zofia Castle ruling as king of Valentia. So Faye doesn't have to go "looking for him" since she knows where he is. Does her disappearnces have to do with her affection with Alm? Probably. Who knows, maybe she visted the castle from time to time. Alm and Celica both recognize her as a friend after all. 

Hey IS, how about not making "disappeared" endings for characters where it wouldn't make sense next time, ok? At least Faye's disappearnces aren't permament.

[NekoKnight]

I've probably said it before but in the Japanese version, she's legitimately more creepy, something even the devs acknowledged in a recently translated interview by Kirokan. Maybe it was intended to be funny-creepy but these are real people existing in the world.

Like Thane said, you would need to give her more attention to really examine what she does wrong and how it afffects herself and others. There are hints about her behavior being negative but her two supports don't really criticize her character (Alm still likes her and Silque is too much of a doormat to take offense).

On 08/15/2017 at 11:04 PM, Umbran Darros said:

I believe the game outright mentions that Camilla has depression in birthright, we just don't get to see it because it's behind closed doors. Still, it's not spectacularly written but it's more than Not Mentioned At All.

That's in the context of Corrin abandoning Nohr. "Everyone got super sad that you left." I don't think Camilla's mental health (that explains her extreme attachment to Corrin and behavior outside Birthright) is ever commented on directly unless you consider Camilla x Niles to be that.

[Sentinel07]

On 8/14/2017 at 7:58 PM, Rex Glacies said:

I personally believe that Faye was an experiment by Intelligent Systems to see how popular yanderes actually are among the fandom. The previous two (Tharja and Camilla) are different from Faye in that they wear immodest clothing and are attracted to the player character, an avatar. Therefore, I think Faye was designed to see if those two traits (immodesty and attracted to the player) were a crucial reason people liked them, and if people would enjoy a character who has a similar personality yet lacks those two traits.

As for the theory, that is rather interesting. I would agree in some sense - that Faye's actions were toned down from the "over-the-top" characters from Fates and Awakening, however, much like what you said, she is never criticized for only paying attention to Alm, and she never seems to grow out of it either. (Plus, if I recall correctly, she has the same crush in the prologue, which would negate the "war trauma" hypothesis.)

I would say the "war trauma" probably isn't a basis for the crush itself, but maybe played some kind of role later on. Alm did say he was beginning to worry about the war getting to her when she mentioned killing enemies in his name.

[Sentinel07]

On 8/15/2017 at 0:32 PM, Armagon said:

Hey IS, how about not making "disappeared" endings for characters where it wouldn't make sense next time, ok? At least Faye's disappearnces aren't permament.

Boy, that reminds me of how pissed off I was at Ike's out-of-character ending in Radiant Dawn. And I'm still angry as a matter of fact.!

[Dark Holy Elf]

I dunno if I would consider Faye a deconstruction, but I definitely do think that through her the writers are making fun of the trope. She crushes on Alm to a crazy degree and both people she supports with just find it weird. She's rather clearly intended as comedy, and in a different way than Tharja. We're supposed to be creeped out by Tharja and maybe find her behaviour humourous in a dark way, while we're supposed to laugh at Faye much more directly.