Gaiden Chapters/Paralogues

[Interdimensional Observer]

Beginning with Thracia 776, Fire Emblem games have sometimes offered optional battles in the format of what Thracia called "X Chapters", and which are commonly called Gaidens (Japanese for sidestory) on SF. After Thracia, these then carried over into Binding and Blazing, and were revived by Shadow Dragon and Mystery of the Emblem. Awakening and Fates then rebranded these chapters by taking away the awkward-to-speak "X"s, naming "Paralogues". 

I like Gaidens/Paralogues, much more so than skirmishes, and more so than DLC battles or Trial Maps (dungeons aren't bad, but can be a little dull in combat). And I'm curious what everyone thinks of them and how they should be implemented in the future if they are to return. (Not that they have to return, Tellius told decent plots and built a good world without them.)

 

Now for my take on it all- divided according to the overall style of the Gaidens/Paralogues in the games:

FE5 and FE7 seem to share the same idea when it comes to Gaidens. They add to the world a little, and the battles you could imagine taking place as part of the main narrative were they not optional- they seamlessly fit in. In fact, Port of Badon, Night of Farewells, and Battle Preparations from FE7 should have been mandatory, and I guess you make a similar argument for a couple of Thracia's Gaidens too. In addition, FE7 attempted a subplot with Kishuna contained wholly in Gaidens, and hid a massive revelation about Nergal in a super hidden Gaiden that unfairly takes luck to unlock.

FE6 uses its Gaidens to build a little lore, and provide the Divine Weapons one will be using for the last few chapters which they unlock. However, the Gaidens could offer more lore on the Scouring and the Divine Generals, and they more variety as to the story happening during them- it's always the enemy haphazardly defending the Divine Weapon- but I think part of the blame here falls on FE6's use of Seize as it's sole map objective.

FE11 is rightfully criticized for the fact that all but one of its Gaidens require you to slaughter your army, but beyond that, they're okay. You can clearly tell that all of the Gaidens (barring maybe the last) are there just to recruit the characters they offer, and they read more like filler than most of FE7 and FE5 (these games did have Gaidens that focused on characters that were recruited within them, but on the whole I think they handled it better). FE12 based its Gaidens around the new Assassins subplot, and also added Fog of War to a bunch of them- something which didn't exist in FE3.

Awakening's Paralogues are overwhelmingly built around the characters they contain. The majority of Paralogues exist simply to contain a character, and don't contribute at all the world or story. There is only 1 Paralogue without a PC in it (well two, but one has Anna, who is recruitable in a different fight), and it is utterly forgettable. Fates continued in the path of Awakening- all Paralogues exist solely for the recruitment of Mozu or a child, and by virtue of the Deeprealms being a ridiculous concept in itself, the Paralogues come off as inferior to Awakening's, even when they really aren't. Paralogues aren't helped by being unconstrained by time, you can't have Night of Farewells in Awakening or Fates- it wouldn't make any sense.

Lastly, I wish I could say more on this, but there is no translation of Berwick Saga available. The game has 17 mandatory battles, and 24 optional battles- quite different! None of the optional battles contain a playable character, though a slew of characters can only be permanently recruited through the side missions.

 

Overall, I think the biggest problem with Gaidens is when they're too focused around a recruitable character, or in FE6's case, an obtainable weapon. While new characters/weapons are great incentives to go the extra mile for the bonus battles, if they're too focused on them, it comes off as if the fight is filler and totally disconnected from the main plot. Some disconnect is more often than not inevitable for Gaidens due to the fact that they are optional, but you don't necessarily need any- as Port of Badon, NoF, and I guess Thracia's 4x show.

To explain why I love Night of Farewells (divorced from the map design/gameplay), it's because it features in dramatic fashion the demise of the honorable Black Fang (barring the crazed ones under Lloyd/Linus you kill in the next fight) and you get to kill the wicked thorn in your side which Sonia has been. And this balances out the focus on Jaffar, the character obtained in this fight, and on Nino, the girl you had to recruit to unlock it in the first place. Port of Badon is interesting because the recruitable character in it is totally divorced from the (good enough) plot of the chapter. Canas just so happens to be in a house, and you have no idea he's there until you visit.

In case you can't tell, I'm partial to how 5 & 7 handled things. With FE12 getting the bronze, and an honorable mention to Berwick (because I can't knowledgeably give it more). Awakening and Fates are too in a vacuum, and SD isn't much better, though it is (you don't visit out of the way places for the Gaidens, probably because you either do them right away, or not at all). 

And what I want are Gaidens that don't feel like filler, and either tell a plausible subplot, and or connect in some way to the overall plot or world.

[Slumber]

I see a distinct difference between Gaiden chapters and Paralogues:

Gaiden chapters are unlocked through secondary objectives in a map, Paralogues are unlocked by fulfilling criteria in the meta-game or are unlocked at a certain point in the game. 

So in that sense, I'm a bigger fan of Gaiden chapters than Paralogues. Putting in side objectives that force you to play a bit differently always was more fun to me. If Gaiden chapters come back, it'd be neat for there to be a wider range of objectices, since a fair few do come down to recruiting characters as their sole purpose. 

Edited August 18, 2017 by Slumber

[Zapp Branniglenn]

What happens if you say no to doing Port of Badon in FE7? I imagine it would be awkward what with Fargus showing up out of nowhere and supporting the lords when you never see them meet.

I'm not sure if I love any of these types of gaiden chapters, but I prefer the FE7 and 6 styles that give you lots of lore. But a whole chapter is a sizable amount of content, and I don't like it being locked behind player decisions or skill in a previous map. The player should definitely be rewarded for playing well, but I'd award them with bonus exp, gold, or rare items. Awarding the player with lore is a good idea, but a gaiden chapter is also a source of exp and more resources. And let's be honest, is there ever a good reason to say no to a gaiden chapter? There isn't. But I say no to paralogues a lot of the time because I don't care for recruiting units I don't plan on using.

I guess my ideal scenario for a gaiden chapter is one that either gives some lore for the world, some background info on our villains, or character development to non main characters. Like imagine if there was a paralogue in Awakening where you took back Rosanne from occupying Valmese forces. That's why Virion and Cherche are fighting with Chrom, give us a resolution to their side story. You can have gaiden chapters unlocked by meeting objectives, but please please tell the player what those objectives are if they're going to be permanently missable. As for recruiting more characters in gaidens, absolutely. Great way to introduce units that aren't central to the plot. Just don't dedicate all or even the vast majority of chapters for this purpose, because it's extremely formulaic. I want gaiden chapters to be the opposite of formulaic.

[Interdimensional Observer]

2 hours ago, Glennstavos said:

What happens if you say no to doing Port of Badon in FE7? I imagine it would be awkward what with Fargus showing up out of nowhere and supporting the lords when you never see them meet.

The dialogue at the start of Chapter 17- the Pirate Ship one- changes to this:

Narrator:
After speaking with the Ostian spy Leila, Eliwood realizes he must travel to Valor, the Dread Isle. They head straight to the port city of Badon seeking passage. After a long journey, they spot a fog-enshrouded isle on the horizon. Eliwood’s father is on the isle, as is the Dragon’s Gate. As they draw closer to the isle, Eliwood no longer fears that his father might be one of the conspirators. As the moment of truth nears, Eliwood only prays that he is safe.

 

The next person to speak is Fargus- so yeah, he does show up with no introduction. Which is why I find Port of Badon being a Gaiden rather odd. It's like the chapter happened without the player getting to experience it (which might not be a terrible way to handle Gaidens). I don't think there is any other chapter barring NoF (because Sonia then dies of wounds anticlimatically dealt offscreen by Brendan) which feels so odd if left out.

[Tolvir]

Ive never played a game with Gaiden chapters, but I do like the idea. Having some optional chapters with unique map designs and objectives sounds like a great idea to me. It would be a perfect place for the stealth chapters that seem to sneak into FE every now and then.

As far as paralogues go, I think the free DLC paralogues for Awakening werent too bad. They were focused entirely on recruiting, but one specifically that I was really fond of was the one where you recruit Aversa. The entire idea of creating copies of your entire team and having you fight it was actually a really cool idea.

As far as them being too much about recruiting, What about making the certain recruitment or item as the reward come only after beating the gaiden chapter? That way the focus is on beating the map, not trying to recruit or get the item? That way you can make it anything you really want to, defense map, escape map, secondary objectives, etc.

Another thing I want to add to the idea of Gaiden Chapters themselves though, you mentioned making them a part of the story, or having a small story attached to them. What about taking the idea that some other games, Mass Effect being the biggest one that comes to mind, and have them based on some of the characters you already have recruited? In ME 2 and ME Andromeda you have loyalty missions, where you go on a missions typically with the character they are for being put into the forefront of the story. They typically reveal a bit about their past, their personal life, etc. I think this could work for FE as far as Gaiden chapters go. Make a few of them based on a character that has been recruited to learn more about them? Not sure if this was already done or not, but I think it could work.

[Darros]

Gaidens are really hit/miss tbh. When they're well done they're well done - but also you get the likes of FE5 (could you imagine not having Lifis in the earlygame? That sounds like absolute hell.). I'd like to see proper gaiden chapters brought back but they also have to not be stupid. I think with gaidens though you are throwing out the traversable map - or at least kind of shooting yourself in the foot when it comes to gaiden placement. I mean technically in FE8 those maps where you don't get to change locations between the two maps could be changed to gaidens I suppose but it may come off as clunky and then revisiting two maps on the same tile would be issue causing.

[Acacia Sgt]

I would certainly like for Gaiden chapters to come back.

12 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

The next person to speak is Fargus- so yeah, he does show up with no introduction. Which is why I find Port of Badon being a Gaiden rather odd. It's like the chapter happened without the player getting to experience it (which might not be a terrible way to handle Gaidens). I don't think there is any other chapter barring NoF (because Sonia then dies of wounds anticlimatically dealt offscreen by Brendan) which feels so odd if left out.

To be fair, the talk Fargus and Eliwood have explains enough for those not visiting the Gaiden. They went to the port, nobody but Fargus wanted to take them, and then Fargus does it for free because reasons. The only details you could possibly miss was that the "free" passage involved a little game, and a minor Black Fang attack. It's not like Fargus really needs some big introduction. And Chapter 17 gives you enough for that, Gaiden or no Gaiden.

Edited August 18, 2017 by Acacia Sgt

[Jingle Jangle]

6 minutes ago, Tolvir said:

Ive never played a game with Gaiden chapters, but I do like the idea. Having some optional chapters with unique map designs and objectives sounds like a great idea to me. It would be a perfect place for the stealth chapters that seem to sneak into FE every now and then.

As far as paralogues go, I think the free DLC paralogues for Awakening werent too bad. They were focused entirely on recruiting, but one specifically that I was really fond of was the one where you recruit Aversa. The entire idea of creating copies of your entire team and having you fight it was actually a really cool idea.

As far as them being too much about recruiting, What about making the certain recruitment or item as the reward come only after beating the gaiden chapter? That way the focus is on beating the map, not trying to recruit or get the item? That way you can make it anything you really want to, defense map, escape map, secondary objectives, etc.

Another thing I want to add to the idea of Gaiden Chapters themselves though, you mentioned making them a part of the story, or having a small story attached to them. What about taking the idea that some other games, Mass Effect being the biggest one that comes to mind, and have them based on some of the characters you already have recruited? In ME 2 and ME Andromeda you have loyalty missions, where you go on a missions typically with the character they are for being put into the forefront of the story. They typically reveal a bit about their past, their personal life, etc. I think this could work for FE as far as Gaiden chapters go. Make a few of them based on a character that has been recruited to learn more about them? Not sure if this was already done or not, but I think it could work.

Also  there were a couple Gaiden chapters in Awakening. Twice where Chrom's army helped Anna, and a level where the goal is to protect three villagers. It is possible to the villagers to die and have no reward. What I look of in a gaiden chapter is a self contained story, or a series of events (FE12). With some payoff for doing the bonus objective.

To add on the point of Mass Effect 2 was to  recruit people for the final mission. In fact, one may say that the second game where not so much happens story wise in the wider picture of the series. Unless where a Fire Emblem game with the same premise, I do not see that working.

[Slumber]

25 minutes ago, Umbran Darros said:

Gaidens are really hit/miss tbh. When they're well done they're well done - but also you get the likes of FE5 (could you imagine not having Lifis in the earlygame? That sounds like absolute hell.). I'd like to see proper gaiden chapters brought back but they also have to not be stupid. I think with gaidens though you are throwing out the traversable map - or at least kind of shooting yourself in the foot when it comes to gaiden placement. I mean technically in FE8 those maps where you don't get to change locations between the two maps could be changed to gaidens I suppose but it may come off as clunky and then revisiting two maps on the same tile would be issue causing.

The recruitment of Lifis isn't a problem so much because he's in a gaiden chapter(I've never not had a butt ton of time to get to the villages), it's more because you have to know that this irredeemable asshole who just raided a village, killed an innocent villager, and implied he was going to manipulate the timid cleric in the cutscene before the chapter into having sex with him is actually recruitable.

Also, you get Lifis for all of 1 chapter(One with nothing super vital in the chests) before you get another Thief.

Edited August 18, 2017 by Slumber