The most balanced FE game hard mode

[Magical Glace]

1 hour ago, Køkø said:

Show me your Mozu,Arthur,Charlotte,Beruka,Effie/Benny(No pair-up),Gunter,Nyx,Odin and Kaze on Hard+ please.

I'm on Chapter 26 of CQ Hard right now, Mozu's my MVP.  She's currently a 20/20 Sniper with capped strength, skill, speed and Luck.  Certain Blow made bosses much easier to deal with, and quick draw augments damage while using it.

For Nyx and Odin, while they weren't as valuable to me as Mozu, but I still trained them and both can put in work with the Calamity Gate from Ophelia's paralogue.

I have none of the DLC aside from the free Anna's Gifts, which affected none of these units (Paragon being given to Forrest and Witch's Mark to Ophelia).

[Køkø]

1 minute ago, Glaceon Mage said:

I'm on Chapter 26 of CQ Hard right now, Mozu's my MVP.  She's currently a 20/20 Sniper with capped strength, skill, speed and Luck.  Certain Blow made bosses much easier to deal with, and quick draw augments damage while using it.

For Nyx and Odin, while they weren't as valuable to me as Mozu, but I still trained them and both can put in work with the Calamity Gate from Ophelia's paralogue.

I have none of the DLC aside from the free Anna's Gifts, which affected none of these units (Paragon being given to Forrest and Witch's Mark to Ophelia).

Wow, that's awesome. Do you have a screenshot?

[Magical Glace]

1 minute ago, Køkø said:

Wow, that's awesome. Do you have a screenshot?

I don't know how to take screenshots from my 3DS, if it's doable without a capture card or Miiverse (as I don't have a Miiverse account attached to the 3DS that wasn't stolen and I'd rather not have to use Miiverse anyway).  

I guess I can take a picture with my iPod or something but the image quality will be bad.

Oh yeah and to answer the question of the thread: 14, but ONLY CQ.  I know nothing of BR and watching a LP of Rev did not give me positive impressions of its unit balance.  OP should split it into three options tbh.

[Køkø]

4 minutes ago, Glaceon Mage said:

I don't know how to take screenshots from my 3DS, if it's doable without a capture card or Miiverse (as I don't have a Miiverse account attached to the 3DS that wasn't stolen and I'd rather not have to use Miiverse anyway).  

I guess I can take a picture with my iPod or something but the image quality will be bad.

Oh yeah and to answer the question of the thread: 14, but ONLY CQ.  I know nothing of BR and watching a LP of Rev did not give me positive impressions of its unit balance.  OP should split it into three options tbh.

If it's too much trouble, don't worry about it. I disagree on Conquest, but Birthright and Revelation are easier to work with. The latter having lopsided unit balance that favored Hoshido, but both are really easy.

[Armagon]

21 minutes ago, Køkø said:

Azama's Hexing Rod shenanigans, Setsuna,

They don't move though.

21 minutes ago, Køkø said:

debuff enemies everywhere, reinforcments,

You're making this sound worse than it actually is. Debuff enemies are annoying but unless it's Lunatic, they won't have Inevitable End. They were honestly more of a problem in Ch.17. Reinforcements are reinforcements. The reinforcements in Binding Blade Ch.21 are worse tbh.

23 minutes ago, Køkø said:

In a conversation of viability, isn't optimality everything?

Yes, and it seems most people here agree that most Conquest units are actually viable.

23 minutes ago, Køkø said:

Not breaking the pots is good way of making things harder for yourself. The Dragon Vein is there for a reason. 

Yes, it's there to screw you over. You break the pots, and you lose all cover. That's why you should only break the absolutely necessary ones.

 

[Køkø]

1 hour ago, Armagon said:

They don't move though.

You're making this sound worse than it actually is. Debuff enemies are annoying but unless it's Lunatic, they won't have Inevitable End. They were honestly more of a problem in Ch.17. Reinforcements are reinforcements. The reinforcements in Binding Blade Ch.21 are worse tbh.

Yes, and it seems most people here agree that most Conquest units are actually viable.

Yes, it's there to screw you over. You break the pots, and you lose all cover. That's why you should only break the absolutely necessary ones.

 

We are definitely not playing the same game. Setsuna does move.   

If you are such a God-tier player, I'd like to see you in action. Chapter 17 is a pain in the ass too, but nowhere near as bad as 24. Ironically, Chapter 21 FE6 is one of my favorite chapters of all time.  

And you guys could be right, but until Harvey clarifies and we get more then 10 people in here (still meager), I'd hold off on that. And if you knew that, why would you make that comment?

The pots where Saizo/Kagero are stationed are medicine and the pots where the enemies are contain poison. After you take them out, you're supposed to use the Dragon Vein.  Why would you break them manually, poisoning yourself and slowing down your pace? There's Freeze and Entrap staves up there too, so you want room to move around.

Edited August 25, 2017 by Køkø

[Shadow Mir]

47 minutes ago, Køkø said:

I got some experience on her, and she turned into a crit monster. Though you can pretty much turn anyone in Fates into a monster under the right conditions.

The issue is, you can't grow if all you do is get "MISS!!" when it really counts. And frankly, Arthur's no better - if anything, his crit woes make him even worse.

Also, to be frank, all the answers of Conquest are doing nothing but make me shake my head - having duds on the level of Arthur and Charlotte gives me a negative impression on Conquest's balance. . .

Edited August 24, 2017 by Levant Mir Celestia

[Armagon]

9 minutes ago, Køkø said:

We are definitely not playing same game. Setsuna does move

Alright, my mistake. But Azama still doesn't move.

9 minutes ago, Køkø said:

If you are such a God-tier player, I'd like to see you in action. Chapter 17 is a pain in the ass too, but nowhere near as bad as 24.

You're making this sound like it requiers God-tier skill. Here's a hint: it doesn't. Also, no, i completely disagree. Ch.17 is way worse than Ch.24. Ninja Hell is not fun. It took me like 10 resets to beat it. Ch.24? Only three resets were required.

9 minutes ago, Køkø said:

Why wouldyou break them manually, poisoning yourself and slowing down your pace?

Because i don't want the enemy to rush me. It was actually easier for me to beat that chapter without using the Dragon Vein.

Also

50 minutes ago, Køkø said:

Hinoka is not going down quickly

Axe users and Archers exist. Azura exists. Really not that hard to take down Camilla.

[Køkø]

1 minute ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

The issue is, you can't grow if all you do is get "MISS!!" when it really counts. And frankly, Arthur's no better - if anything, his crit woes make him even worse.

Also, to be frank, all the answers of Conquest are doing nothing but make me shake my head - having duds on the level of Arthur and Charlotte makes me question that.

Lol. I'm sorry, I know that feeling. Is it just me, or is Fates RNG particularly wonky? It took a lot of time and patience but I made her good. Never bothered with Arthur. 

I don't understand all the Conquest assertions either, but everyone has a opinion. 

[Nobody]

20 minutes ago, Køkø said:

f you are such a God-tier player, I'd like to see you in action. Chapter 17 is a pain in the ass too, but nowhere near as bad as 24.

Kaze, the unit you're the literal only person in the world who thinks is bad, can one round every flier and mage in that map with the hunter's knife. First thing I do on turn 1 is put him in this tile:

 

Just move your units in groups, have a bow user (Niles is the best one), and use dragon vein to your favor. There are three dragon veins in the map which you can easily reach. I like to use the first one to bait Setsuna's group (watch out for the reinforcements that appear after she's baited), one to reach Azama without being hexed (keep a durable mouted unit just outside of his range, pair azura with a mount, use the dragon vein and move them as far as you can and you will be able to reach Azama without being hit by the rod), and one whenever I feel like I need to.

Conquest is a game in which you should focus on player phase offense, unless you're Xandering stuff or something, which doesn't always work.

Edited August 24, 2017 by Nobody

[Køkø]

17 minutes ago, Armagon said:

Alright, my mistake. But Azama still doesn't move.

You're making this sound like it requiers God-tier skill. Here's a hint: it doesn't. Also, no, i completely disagree. Ch.17 is way worse than Ch.24. Ninja Hell is not fun. It took me like 10 resets to beat it. Ch.24? Only three resets were required.

Because i don't want the enemy to rush me. It was actually easier for me to beat that chapter without using the Dragon Vein.

Also

Axe users and Archers exist. Azura exists. Really not that hard to take down Camilla.

He doesn't have to, given his range.  

Well when you're describing it the way you are, you make sound so easy. I just want to see you in action dude, maybe teach me some things.   

It is objectively harder to do Chapter 12 that way. 

You have no idea of what you're talking about. That's yet another inaccuracy. There are no safe places for Azura to refresh from, and Hinoka does not have a flying weakness. Plus, she has Sol, Luna and Darting Blow. I feel like late game Conquest difficulty became really contrived. 

 

10 minutes ago, Nobody said:

Kaze, the unit you're the literal only person in the world who thinks is bad, can one round every flier and mage in that map with the hunter's knife. First thing I do on turn 1 is put him in this tile:

  Hide contents

Just move your units in groups, have a bow user (Niles is the best one), and use dragon vein to your favor. There are three dragon vein in the map which you can easily reach. I like to use the first one to bait Setsuna's group (watch out for the reinforcements that appear after she's baited), one to reach Azama without being hexed (keep a durable mouted unit just outside of his range, pair azura with a mount, use the dragon vein and move them as far as you can and you will be able to reach Azama without being hit by the rod), and one whenever I feel like I need to.

Conquest is a game in which you should focus on player phase offense, unless you're Xandering stuff or something, which doesn't always work.

Thank you for attempting to help. Maybe it's just me, but evasion is not reliable in this game. Kaze always died on me. Never said he was bad by the way. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 24, 2017 by Køkø

[Shadow Mir]

13 minutes ago, Armagon said:

Axe users and Archers exist. Azura exists. Really not that hard to take down Camilla.

Erm, yeah, Hinoka has Winged Shield, meaning arfchers aren't as effective against her... Well, that, and she gets terrain boosts. Anyway, outside of Camilla, I find that most of the axe users in Conquest are... pretty damn terribad, to say the least.

 

23 minutes ago, Køkø said:

The pots where Saizo/Kagero are stationed are medicine and the pots where the enemies are contain poison. After you take them out, you're supposed to use the Dragon Vein.  Why would you break them manually, poisoning yourself and slowing down your pace? There's Freeze and Entrap staves up there too, so you want room to move around.

On Lunatic, the Dragon Vein gets moved to a position where whoever triggers it is in range of a half HP pot - I'll file that under  "NOT WORTH IT".

Edited August 24, 2017 by Levant Mir Celestia

[Køkø]

1 minute ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

 

 

On Lunatic, the Dragon Vein gets moved to a position where whoever triggers it is in range of a half HP pot - I'll file that under  "NOT WORTH IT".

True, but we're talking Hard though right? He said he didn't play Lunatic.

[Shadow Mir]

Just now, Køkø said:

True, but we're talking Hard though right? He said he didn't play Lunatic.

Yeah. Guess that can serve as a FYI. Anyways, I generally found it easier when I only broke pots that hindered me as little as possible (largely Silence pots, since unless they hit a magic user, they don't do anything).

[Armagon]

2 minutes ago, Køkø said:

He doesn't have to, given his range.

Then stay out of it.

2 minutes ago, Køkø said:

You have no idea what you're talking about. That's yet another inaccuracy

No i do, it's just that i don't remember the exact specifics of enemy stats and skills.

 

3 minutes ago, Køkø said:

There are no safe places for Azura to refresh from,

I only used her to refresh at the end when it twas time to "kill" Hinoka. Camilla did the job.

5 minutes ago, Køkø said:

I just want to see you in action dude, maybe teach me some things.

I would if i had a capture card. I'm not a good teacher btw. i just do things.

[Moblin Major General]

4 minutes ago, Nobody said:

Conquest is a game in which you should focus on player phase offense, unless you're Xandering stuff or something, which doesn't always work.

That never seems to work for me. I can never stop all of the Pegasus Knights in Chapter 10 whenever I blitz. I admit that turtling sucks for the most part, but I don't want to miss chests when you need all the help you can get.

[Køkø]

16 minutes ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

Yeah. Guess that can serve as a FYI. Anyways, I generally found it easier when I only broke pots that hindered me as little as possible (largely Silence pots, since unless they hit a magic user, they don't do anything).

Cool. You have to do what's best for you. I preferred to poison the enemies for easy kills and delicious exp. 

 

 

15 minutes ago, Armagon said:

Then stay out of it.

No i do, it's just that i don't remember the exact specifics of enemy stats and skills.

 

I only used her to refresh at the end when it twas time to "kill" Hinoka. Camilla did the job.

I would if i had a capture card. I'm not a good teacher btw. i just do things.

Until Nobody enlightened me, I didn't think it was possible. First time I'm hearing his particular strategy.  

If we're debating the difficulty of a game, I think the things you missed are things you should know before arguing your points. 

Interesting. She was too busy handling the reinforcements in my file. I barely got through, but Corrin got a crit on her.

 

Edited August 24, 2017 by Køkø

[KoimanZX]

I wonder how many people realize that one can use castle battles to grind supports in Conquest. Anyway, the characters in Fates have pretty good growth rates in comparison to most games in the series (save for HP). The issue is that--since the stats are so high--each point matters less, and being screwed by the random number generator is that much worse. I would, however, side with the team that says that most of the characters are usable with a bit of a caveat: many of the characters take more effort to be made good than others. Characters like Harold and Mozume can be used with some babying (with the former benefiting from Veteran Intuition, and the latter from special classes), but one would be better off with characters like Camilla, Silas, or Elffie (Silas has a good join time and is mostly pretty balanced save for his lacking speed). Gunther has no hope, however. 

[Køkø]

13 minutes ago, KoimanZX said:

I wonder how many people realize that one can use castle battles to grind supports in Conquest. Anyway, the characters in Fates have pretty good growth rates in comparison to most games in the series (save for HP). The issue is that--since the stats are so high--each point matters less, and being screwed by the random number generator is that much worse. I would, however, side with the team that says that most of the characters are usable with a bit of a caveat: many of the characters take more effort to be made good than others. Characters like Harold and Mozume can be used with some babying (with the former benefiting from Veteran Intuition, and the latter from special classes), but one would be better off with characters like Camilla, Silas, or Elffie (Silas has a good join time and is mostly pretty balanced save for his lacking speed). Gunther has no hope, however. 

Though technically not DLC, any outside source was not considered when I made my point. You mentioned Veteran Intuition, that's an example of DLC. I was evaluating it from pure default gameplay. No online, DLC, Amiibo, etc. 

What confuses me though most why people are saying Conquest in particular. I agree the Fates in general is balanced, just not Conquest. Even if you think Gunter is the only one without hope, why would you choose Conquest as number 1 when there are far easier games to work with? It's impossible for anyone to bad FE8-FE9 because they're so easy.

[KoimanZX]

Just now, Køkø said:

Though technically not DLC, any outside source was not considered when I made my point. You mentioned Veteran Intuition, that's an example of DLC. I was evaluating it from pure default gameplay. No online, DLC, Amiibo, etc. 

What confuses me though most why people are saying Conquest in particular. I agree the Fates in general is balanced, just not Conquest. Even if you think Gunter is the only one without hope, why would you choose Conquest as number 1 when there are far easier games to work with? It's impossible for anyone to bad FE8-FE9 because they're so easy.

I never voted, though.

Anyway, I should have not used DLC as part of the solutions (Harold with a Frying Pan could work maybe?). I was simply trying to play Devil's Advocate.

[Intercopter]

51 minutes ago, Køkø said:

What confuses me though most why people are saying Conquest in particular. I agree the Fates in general is balanced, just not Conquest. Even if you think Gunter is the only one without hope, why would you choose Conquest as number 1 when there are far easier games to work with? It's impossible for anyone to bad FE8-FE9 because they're so easy.

Easy isn't always a good thing when you're considering balance.

If a game doesn't challenge the player significantly, then the game becomes a chore to play through. If the game is so heavily skewed in the player's favor, that's poor balance. If you enjoy how easy FE8-FE9 are, that's perfectly fine. Others clearly prefer Conquest's level of difficulty. I don't understand why you're confused, this just comes down to personal preference.

[Køkø]

9 minutes ago, Intercopter said:

Easy isn't always a good thing when you're considering balance.

If a game doesn't challenge the player significantly, then the game becomes a chore to play through. If the game is so heavily skewed in the player's favor, that's poor balance. If you enjoy how easy FE8-FE9 are, that's perfectly fine. Others clearly prefer Conquest's level of difficulty. I don't understand why you're confused, this just comes down to personal preference.

Where did I say enjoyed FE8-FE9's difficulty? Look to the left, see where it says favorite FE? I only mentioned it because in the context of balance, an easier game isn't as demanding. This means the units you use don't matter, and there isn't a much of a tier list. I'm confused because I think there are better examples than Conquest. Considering this isn't a non objective topic, it does not come down to personal preferences.  

 

Do you plan on answering my previous question?

Edited August 25, 2017 by Køkø

[Intercopter]

13 minutes ago, Køkø said:

Where did I say enjoyed FE8-FE9's difficulty? Look to the left, see where it says favorite FE? I only mentioned it because in the context of balance, an easier game isn't as demanding. This means the units you use don't matter, and there isn't a much of a tier list. I'm confused because I think there are better examples than Conquest. Considering this isn't a non objective topic, it does not come down to personal preferences.  

 

Do you plan on answering my previous question?

This is far from an objective topic.

"Which FE hard mode is balanced in your opinion." It most definitely comes down to personal preferences.

If you really want to know what specific units I used, alright. I used Arthur because I liked his character. I used Laslow and Selena because I thought a mercenary duo would be fun to play with. Shigure ended up being my best flier. Soleil ended up being a pretty kickass Hero. Kaze ended up being a decent dodge tank.

I never had any huge issues with Conquest Hard Mode's difficulty when I just used whoever I felt like using. I never got the impression that the game was so ball-bustingly hard that I had to stick to a very specific set of units like you claim.

[Køkø]

6 minutes ago, Intercopter said:

This is far from an objective topic.

"Which FE hard mode is balanced in your opinion." It most definitely comes down to personal preferences.

If you really want to know what specific units I used, alright. I used Arthur because I liked his character. I used Laslow and Selena because I thought a mercenary duo would be fun to play with. Shigure ended up being my best flier. Soleil ended up being a pretty kickass Hero. Kaze ended up being a decent dodge tank.

I never had any huge issues with Conquest Hard Mode's difficulty when I just used whoever I felt like using. I never got the impression that the game was so ball-bustingly hard that I had to stick to a very specific set of units like you claim.

Excuse me, didn't see that. I only read the main title.  In regards to being non objective, it's whatever you want to be. No conversation needs to be had, because it boils down to personal choice. 

In regards to objectivity, it's not Conquest.  

 

Did you reclass at all?

 

If Conquest Hard isn't difficult to you, what is? 

Edited August 25, 2017 by Køkø

[Intercopter]

17 minutes ago, Køkø said:

Excuse me, didn't see that. I only read the main title.  In regards to being non objective, it's whatever you want to be. No conversation needs to be had, because it boils down to personal choice. 

In regards to objectivity, it's not Conquest.  

 

Did you reclass at all?

 

If Conquest Hard isn't difficult to you, what is? 

No, I don't typically use reclassing. I've disliked the system since FE11. 

I never denied that Conquest Hard was difficult, I just said I thought it fairly challenged the player. Sure, I got my ass handed to me on occasion, but it was always my fault. The game never threw any sucker punches at me that I wasn't capable of avoiding.

I guess you and I just have different standards for difficulty.

Edited August 25, 2017 by Intercopter
typo rip