Inclusion of Other Fantasy Races

[Von Ithipathachai]

So anyone who's seen Ghast Station's Fire Emblem: Bloodlines hack will know that it includes numerous new classes used by the various anthropomorphic animal races (Choron, Liaoni, Valgriph, Calcos, etc.) that inhabit its continent.

Which got me thinking: how well could traditional fantasy races (dwarves, elves, orcs, etc.) be implemented into the Fire Emblem formula?  There are a couple of ways we could go about this.

The first is that these races could get their own classes with differences from human ones, such as that they could have access to more different types of weapons than unpromoted human classes at the expense of, say, a second promotion branch.  For example, Dwarves could start out with both Swords and Axes, but could only promote to Dwarf Chiefs and would not gain any new weapons.  Whereas a human Mercenary would only start out with Swords, but has a choice between two different promotions that each grant access to a new weapon.

Another way to go about it is limiting the number of classes and promotions, but allowing multiple races to have the same class.  For example, Myrmidons would be the only Sword-wielding infantry base class, but the player could encounter Myrmidons of other races besides Human.  Different races would also have their own innate stat/growth bonuses/penalties, such as Speed and Resistance over Strength and Defense for Elves or Skill and Defense over Speed and Resistance for Dwarves.

The chief problems I would see with adding other races is that (1) they'd feel somewhat generic since so many other medieval fantasy franchises have them, and (2) they might just make things more complicated than they really need to be.

But I wanna know what you guys think.  How would you feel about Intelligent Systems adding more fantasy races into the next game?

[Topaz Light]

Okay, so, to be honest, I really, really don't want to see Fire Emblem bring in the extremely bland set of stock fantasy races like Elves, Dwarves, Orcs, etc. They're boring, they're bland, they don't match with Fire Emblem's aesthetic, they're boring, they're overused, and they're boring.

However, I would be totally down for Fire Emblem to have more of its own fantasy races in its stories and worlds; that could be rad. If it is to happen, they should definitely have them have distinctive gameplay features to set them apart more than just character design. Fire Emblem does have some nonhuman races—the dragonkin/manaketes, the Laguz/Taguel, the Zunanma, Kitsune, and the Wolfskin—but for the most part, they're all variants on the same basic theme of a mostly-human individual who transform into more powerful beastly forms in order to engage in combat. The Zunanma seem to innately be hybrids of human and animal or draconic features, but that's only based on the one illustration of them.

I'm definitely biased in this regard, but I'm a huge fan of fleshed-out and interesting nonhuman races, so I'd love to see Fire Emblem bringing in some more nonhumans who aren't simply additional variants of that demihuman shapeshifter theme.

[sirmola]

Yeah, i am so incredibly bored of people ripping of tolkien. Can't you at least put in the effort to make any new races original. Final fantasy tactics advance is a good example of this because it uses almost every race-based mechanic that you suggested. THat game has 5 races: Hums (humans), moogles (because this is a final fantisy game), vera (bunny girls), no-mou, and benga (I can't really describe how they look, which is in itself a good sign.). You can see that of 5 races, we have humans, a race which is a nod to continuity, a race based on a non-fantisy inspiration (playboy bunnies), and two completely original races. THat is how i would perfer the addition of any new races to go. Ripping off tolkien is just so boring, especialy for a series like FE that has a distinctly non-tolkien vibe.

Edited August 27, 2017 by sirmola

[Dandy Druid]

As long as they're not the standard elves/dwarves/anything Tolkien made up I would be fine. However, I don't want them incorporated without much thought. The taguel, wolfskin, and kitsune were very interesting classes, but seemed more like an afterthought to include another shifter when it comes to the lore. I think the Tellius games featured the idea of multiple races pretty well, with each group having their own interests and a few notable members, not just 1 representative.

I wouldn't mind if these other races took up weapon-bearing classes, and weren't just shifters. Maybe 1 of them lost their stone and just became a type of refresher instead? If it's another choose your nation game (with MyUnit being a mercenary instead), I wouldn't mind if MyUnit was a Xane-esque unit that can become a duplicate.

However my main fear is that they may create some Orc looking race, make them cartoonishly evil, and have them as your main antagonists.

Or they could go for a more simple approach, and just make more characters with different skin tones, different facial expressions, and different body features (like beards and curly hair). I like Kozaki, but a lot of them tend to have similar facial structure. Although I will say that Fates was pretty good in giving a variety of designs. Maybe the game will state that X nation features [hair color] redheads, oranges, and brunettes, while Y country features more blues, purples, and blacks, while Z nation features blondes, greens, and silvers.

[MetalAmethyst]

If they can come up with new ideas for races, then sure, I don't see why not!

[Strawman]

No to traditional fantasy races, but yes to expanding on their own non-human races. I think laguz are interesting lore, story (best integrated into the story of their games imo), and design wise, but did not like their mechanics. Manaketes were also interesting lore wise, but outside of Awakening not well integrated into their games, and overall lacking variety. Taguel, Kitsune, and Wolfskin all fell flat for me, with Taguel having the most potential out of those specific three. 

Basically, flesh them out as well as Laguz with the number of playables, npc's, their own societies and roles in the story, but make them work better mechanically so they are actually fun to play with. 

[sirmola]

8 hours ago, Dandy Druid said:

Or they could go for a more simple approach, and just make more characters with different skin tones, different facial expressions, and different body features (like beards and curly hair). I like Kozaki, but a lot of them tend to have similar facial structure. Although I will say that Fates was pretty good in giving a variety of designs. Maybe the game will state that X nation features [hair color] redheads, oranges, and brunettes, while Y country features more blues, purples, and blacks, while Z nation features blondes, greens, and silvers.

THat's always a good option. Real life has lots of racial and cultural diversity within one species. Japanese video games really don't have enough racial diversity. From what I understand, this is because japan only really has one ethnicity (there are others, but their numbers are small). Heck, The japanese census does not even bother to include an ethnicity question, instead asking if you have another nationality (in case you are wondering, only 1.5 percent of the population answers yes). As a result, Japanese works often include zero ethnic diversity, and inadvertently include stereotypes, because they have ever even seen a member of that ethnicity, and don't realize they are even using stereotypes.

[Zapp Branniglenn]

I'm really enamored by "Dwarf" being a class and not a race. Too funny.

I think we're good on non-human races though, like Manaketes. One of these days a manakete is going to be important to the plot since they're, you know, related to gods in this universe. Right now we're just focused on them as cute little girls. Shapeshifters/Laguz have been pretty solid inclusions though. Wouldn't mind seeing any of those guys again in a new game. It would be a more intriguing way of tying new continents to old ones then simply name dropping things like "the Legendary Hero-King" or other vague historic events.

[Captain Karnage]

I wouldn't mind if they did use fantasy races if they do something differently

when a few of my friends were drafting up some ideas for an LCG I had an idea to make the orks, and some goblins, white magic aligned, where they were very clean, religious, and protective of those smaller than them. 

[Thunderstar]

I would love to see more races other than humans and the shapeshifters in FE.
FE developing its own fantasy races like the Manaketes and the Laguz would be nice as long as they continue to make them interesting and not recopying the concept over and over again like how FE did with the Taguels, Kitsunes and Wolfskins who feel like Laguz's clones with less backstory.

For the traditional fantasy races such as Elves, Orcs, etc... I would love to see something new and quite different from the usual ones we see in other fantasies.

It would be interesting to see more uncommon fantasy races too. FE14 kinda did that with the Kitsunes who are less known than the traditional Elves for example. Though instead of giving them only beaststones, it would have been better if they could also use magic like they tend to do in other medias. I also think the stones should only be given to the races that are well known for their transformation abilities.

For example an Orc will of course not be able to transform into a giant pig but instead using weapons such as axes and hammers. Orcs could share classes with humans but they could get their own exclusive classes and weapons and of course there are some human weapons/classes or from an another race the Orcs couldn't use. Same with the humans and the other non-humans races. 

Gameplay wise it could make the game even more fun.

 

Aside from the Manaketes, Laguz and the other shapeshifters, FE also has many monsters that could easily be turned into more "civilized" races.
For example, FE8 hasTarvos/Maelduin which are pretty much centaurs and Gorgons which can be seen as a kind of Lamias. TearRing Saga apparently has Ogres, Harpies and Golems and FE14 even has Golems that could help you during some MyCastle battles too.

Also a Demon race technically exists as well in FE8 thanks to Fomortiis. A Demon race and an Angel race are fine as well as long as they avoid the whole "all the Demons are always evil/all the Angels are always good" cliche. 
There are some stories and games where it's not always the case and I don't see why it wouldn't happen in FE as well (same with the other "protagonist or good and antagonist or evil" races). 

 

Of course it's essential for these races to have a good amount of backstory and distinctive gameplay features. Also if IS decides to include an avatar system in the next game and if the game has some non-human races, I am sure it could benefit the avatar system with more and much better customization choices, gameplay wise and even story wise.  

If marriage between different race members and children are also (somehow) in the game , I guess the kids could just share some of their parents' weakness and strengths like how all the Corrin's children are weak to dragonslaying weapons no matter the class.

Personally for now I am more interested to see how far IS could go at first before reintroducing marriage again but it's just an idea about what they could do with the races and a possible avatar system.

[Strullemia]

Sure but I like how Fire Emblem has its own fantasy races so I'd prefer new non-tolkien races.

I don't even dislike elves, dwarves and orcs and the like but they don't belong in FE imo.

[vanguard333]

I really like that, when it comes to fantasy races, Nintendo prefers to make their own, rather than use elves, dwarves and orcs. As much as I like when some games try to be creative when using elves dwarves and orcs, they're still using those fantasy races that are overused in my opinion.

Honestly, I very much prefer when Fire Emblem uses its own fantasy races. I don't see elves, dwarves and such ever really adding anything to Fire Emblem.

[thecrimsonflash]

Personally, if fire emblem adds tolkien races I will be very concerned about their creativity in general, I am fine with almost every game ending with a big dragon at the end, but for them to add the typical races would be absolute bottom of the barrel, so I answered no. Now, if they are willing to make something new I'm fine with that so long as they are well integrated into the world, unlike the taguels, wolfskin and kitsune, who were trying so hard to be laguz but failed so hard at it, we never even got any glimpse of kitsune or wolfskin society or their hierarchy nothing to make them interesting, hey kaden is supposed to be village chief are you curious as to how he gets such a prestigious title, well we aren't going to say anything about it.

Also, I was concerned when I heard that etrian odyssey was adding tolkien esque races, so yes I would have a problem with it, these races are prebuilt, stereotypical and easy to write for in most cases and intelligent systems could not do anything worthwhile with them.

[NekoKnight]

No Tolkien inspired races, yes to the others.

I think a key point in writing good (sentient) fantasy races is to 1. Make them different than humans in terms of their behavior or culture and 2. Not make them all monolithic in their behavior. Laguz are a good example of this. They have different values concerning strength and leadership, when compared to humans, but it's not like every character is a "proud warrior race guy". Lethe is different to Ranulf, just as Nealuchi is different to Naesala. I think the Ivalice (Final Fantasy) saga did an okay job at this but I couldn't help but feel the differences between races were mostly aesthetic with little culture to speak of (besides Viera who are bunny elves).

What would new races mean? I could see them sharing some classes with humans, depending on how human like they are, or they could all be of the same variety like shape-shifters (which is really the distinct character of FE fantasy races). Race conflict is an element that could be used, but I'd prefer future stories try a different angle (such as relative peaceful coexistence) since Tellius made it such a central theme.  

[Tolvir]

Yes, no, maybe. Not sure. I would love to see some new stuff in Fire Emblem, something to mix the formula up a bit, but at the same time you dont want to lose what Fire Emblem is, which is classic fantasy for the most part. For those who dont notice, Fire Emblem takes a lot from mythology in different parts of the world. Which is why the legendary weapons have a lot of obviously European names. They are taken from everything from Norse to Celtic Mythos. It has kind of made Fire Emblem unique when we have so much high fantasy games out there like Warcraft, Final Fantasy, etc.

Break too far from that concept and I think you lose what has made the series special in the first place, outside of its gameplay. Its why to a certain extent I dont want to see it break too far into the steampunk fantasy mix. I wouldnt mind seeing some fire arms, maybe even an airship if it absolutely fits the concepts and ideas of the game, but dont go too far with it.

As far as fantasy races go, we kind of already have them in game. Between Laguz, Manakete, whatever Panne was, and Fates we got some variety in the races. The only thing is they all are races that turn into something, mostly dragons. I wouldnt mind seeing some other races that dont turn into something thrown into the mix, but I would like for them to be unique. I love the classic fantasy races, Elves, Dwarves, Halflings, Gnomes, Dragonkin, etc. They stand as pillars of fantasy nowdays, and for good reason. But if we throw them into Fire Emblem, I dont think their original selves will really fit the formula. And while I said I would like to see it changed up, I also dont want to see it lose what makes it great. So they need to be unique, and fit into the story. If not, then I say no.

 

Edited August 30, 2017 by Tolvir