The 25 character theory: DEBUNKED

[Jedi]

So as you know https://serenesforest.net/2017/08/28/warriors-special-edition-bundle-na/

The special edition has 25 cards, whether or not this is accurate to the base cast is up for high debate. 

Hyrule Warriors had a slew of villians who weren't playable until an update, and then it had its huge amounts of DLC, which is the method I think FE:W will emulate. 

Currently our cast stands at 17 characters, if this theory correlates, then we have 8 unknown characters, 2 of which are likely Male Corrin & Azura, if we go by the method FemRobin and Cordelia were revealed. 

 If we go by the trends, Shadow Dragon will likely reveal another set of 4, with the final 2 being a mystery (of the emblem). Which will likely not follow our current trend with FemRobin & Cordy, unless they decide to pull Kris for whatever reason, (which isn't particularly likely since they specified Shadow Dragon, not Mystery or New Mystery).

A small but (hopeful) group is thinking the final 2 slots may be occupied by Smash veterans Ike & Roy, if they aren't they will likely be the first batches of DLC. 

What do you think?

Edited September 14, 2017 by Jedi

[Etrurian emperor]

If we have so few slot left then I'm wondering how they are going to make room for the villains. If they want another Corrin, Azura super fan favorite Tharja and the kinda confirmed Tiki then that's already 4 slots taken, leaving 4 for slots to round up Marth's cast, add villains or increase the OC cast. 

[Jedi]

5 minutes ago, Etrurian emperor said:

If we have so few slot left then I'm wondering how they are going to make room for the villains. If they want another Corrin, Azura super fan favorite Tharja and the kinda confirmed Tiki then that's already 4 slots taken, leaving 4 for slots to round up Marth's cast, add villains or increase the OC cast. 

Like I stated, I don't think the villains. Whomever they end up being, will be playable at first in the base game until a future update, as thats how Hyrule Warriors worked, besides Ganondorf the playable cast lacked bad dudes entirely. We started with 11 characters, and through that and DLC ended with 29. 

Or this will truly work like an FE game, no playable villains period. 

Edited August 29, 2017 by Jedi

[Etrurian emperor]

Just now, Jedi said:

Like I stated, I don't think the villains. Whomever they end up being, will be playable at first in the base game until a future update, as thats how Hyrule Warriors worked, besides Ganondorf the playable cast lacked bad dudes entirely. We started with 12 characters, and through that and DLC ended with 29. 

Or this will truly work like an FE game, no playable villains period. 

That's not entirely true actually. Zant and Ghirahim were playable in Adventure mode and free mode from the start, just not in any story mission. There's even an inverview saying they originally hadn't planned to make them playable but that fan demand ensured Koei changed their minds. 

Only team Cia wasn't playable when the game launched. 

[Florete]

I don't really care so long as Anna is one, but 25 does seem like a solid number.

 

1 minute ago, Jedi said:

Like I stated, I don't think the villains. Whomever they end up being, will be playable at first in the base game until a future update, as thats how Hyrule Warriors worked, besides Ganondorf the playable cast lacked bad dudes entirely. We started with 11 characters, and through that and DLC ended with 29. 

Or this will truly work like an FE game, no playable villains period. 

Ganondorf, Zant, and Ghirahim were available in the base game. Cia, Wizzro, and Volga were added in a later update.

[Folt]

Just now, Jedi said:

Like I stated, I don't think the villains. Whomever they end up being, will be playable at first in the base game until a future update, as thats how Hyrule Warriors worked, besides Ganondorf the playable cast lacked bad dudes entirely. We started with 12 characters, and through that and DLC ended with 29. 

Or this will truly work like an FE game, no playable villains period. 

Zant and Ghirahim.

Granted, they weren't playable in the Story Mode, but neither was Ruto and Agitha.

In terms of this, it might be the final playable roster... and it might not be, depending on what they're thinking with the cards. They might omit some characters, or they might not.

Either way, I think we're going to get one or two playable villains, and some of the OCs beyond the twins may or may not be playable.

[Jedi]

3 minutes ago, Florete said:

I don't really care so long as Anna is one, but 25 does seem like a solid number.

 

Ganondorf, Zant, and Ghirahim were available in the base game. Cia, Wizzro, and Volga were added in a later update.

 

4 minutes ago, Etrurian emperor said:

That's not entirely true actually. Zant and Ghirahim were playable in Adventure mode and free mode from the start, just not in any story mission. There's even an inverview saying they originally hadn't planned to make them playable but that fan demand ensured Koei changed their minds. 

Only team Cia wasn't playable when the game launched. 

2 minutes ago, Folt said:

Zant and Ghirahim.

Granted, they weren't playable in the Story Mode, but neither was Ruto and Agitha.

In terms of this, it might be the final playable roster... and it might not be, depending on what they're thinking with the cards. They might omit some characters, or they might not.

Either way, I think we're going to get one or two playable villains, and some of the OCs beyond the twins may or may not be playable.

My mistake with Zant & Ghirahim. Thanks for the correction. 

Point still stands that HW's roster was tiny and there weren't many villians.

Edited August 29, 2017 by Jedi

[AJ Okami]

I think Female Robin is just a reskin of Male Robin so she won't take up an extra character slot but rather just be an alternate `costume`. I think this will be the same for Male Corrin and Female Corrin with Male Corrin being the reskin and not taking up any more slots.

[Jedi]

1 minute ago, AJ Okami said:

I think Female Robin is just a reskin of Male Robin so she won't take up an extra character slot but rather just be an alternate `costume`. I think this will be the same for Male Corrin and Female Corrin with Male Corrin being the reskin and not taking up any more slots.

The problem with that is that they've promoted Female Robin as a separate character, both on the site and in the fact that she isn't playable in story mode.

This isn't the first time a Warriors game has used an outright clone, DW6 was infamous for its characters being given similar weapons and not having any role in its story mode.

[KaSlider]

Is it possible that both Robins could share the same card? They're already grouped together in the poster.

[Jedi]

1 minute ago, KaSlider said:

Is it possible that both Robins could share the same card? They're already grouped together in the poster.

I didn't even consider this, thats actually pretty smart thinking.

[AJ Okami]

5 minutes ago, Jedi said:

The problem with that is that they've promoted Female Robin as a separate character, both on the site and in the fact that she isn't playable in story mode.

This isn't the first time a Warriors game has used an outright clone, DW6 was infamous for its characters being given similar weapons and not having any role in its story mode.

From what little combat we've seen from Robin, both of them seem to have very similar movesets. It seems like it'd be a waste to have 2 characters that are basically the same taking up 2 slots. However, if other games in the past have done it then I wouldn't put it past them to do it again.

[bethany81707]

Is this the part where I give up hope, or is there still some hope to squeeze out?

Because I really would rather not lose hope in everything going on. I'm down to two more chances to get Tana and my prac is... well, I'm genuinely considering the odds I might not go this semester.

[Iridium]

8 minutes ago, phineas81707 said:

Is this the part where I give up hope, or is there still some hope to squeeze out?

if you somehow still have hope after the pr apocalypse that is this game, i can't imagine why this would be the end of it

you're definitely not getting tana though lmao, and even as dlc/sequel bait, sacred stones will probably get stiffed because ike, roy, lyn, and hector aren't in it

Edited August 29, 2017 by Iridium

[Sire]

I'm been predicting a "~25" slot character roster for a while now, but the main thing I wonder about is if villains are counted toward the initial playable roster or not. I know Hyrule Warriors had Ganondorf as baseline, and I think Zant and Ghirahim were added last minute to the base title. Cia, Volga, and Wizzro were made playable a little later with free DLC if I remember correctly.

I'm still holding onto my "final roster speculation" list below. If villians are not playable at base ("Primary & Secondary Antagonist, Gharnef, Grima") and we confirm Y!Tiki with F!Robin and M!Corrin taking up slots, then my "25" list has room for one more playable character (which will likely end up being an Archanean character).

In short, I agree with Jedi's speculation. 3-4 Archanean characters (Y!Tiki is soft confirmed due to amiibo, and I believe Caeda is a solid bet), Azura & M!Corrin, and then two more characters. I just left my list below as a reference. (Edit: The two more characters may very well be Sakura and Elise to round out the Fates royals, although I have them listed as NPCs on my list)

* * * * *
Blue = Confirmed
Red = Speculation

Warriors: Shion, Lian, Darios, Primary Antagonist, Secondary Antagonist
Archanea: Marth, Caeda, Draug, Gordin, Gharnef || Y!Yiki
Awakening: Chrom, Robin, Frederick, Lissa, Lucina, Cordelia, Kellam, Grima || F!Robin
Fates:
== Nohr: Xander, Camilla, Leo
== Hoshido: Ryoma, Hinoka, Takumi
== Revelations: F!Corrin, Azura  || M!Corrin

NPC: Jagen, Cain, Abel // Emmeryn // Elise, Sakura, Anakos

Confirmed: 17 (19 if counting F!Robin and Y!Tiki)
Speculation: 9 (10 if counting M!Corrin)
Sire's Total: 25 (28 if counting the F!Robin, M!Corrin, and Y!Tiki)

Edited August 29, 2017 by Sire

[Iridium]

it's basically not possible to get a good roster in just 8 more characters, even if you exclude villains

• awakening is still missing tharja; i don't like her, a lot of people don't like her, but a lot of people obviously do like her and saving her for DLC would blatantly be a shitty thing to do; this also technically applies to the trio but that's somewhat more understandable and they're all swordies i'm more willing to throw them under the bus
  • the same metric that got cordelia in would also logically imply gaius, but lmao at non-main guys ever getting in besides for some reason frederick
• fates is obviously missing azura, who is all but confirmed to appear in some form; elise is in the same position as tharja, and given the fact combined with the fact that they bothered to put hinoka in when she's the most disposable royal, why exclude sakura, the only decent royal
  • nearly everyone hates male corrin but let's be honest he's probably getting in too just because they can make him easily, and if so, that might or might not be another card; consider this not as a character necessary to reach a good roster, but as a potential obstacle that might cut it down to only seven more chances
• shadow dragon is missing its entire universe; we can reasonably assume tiki is going to appear, caeda should be safe (if cordelia and hinoka both got in before her, the game really just needs to be destroyed), draug is probably getting in because none of the knights are especially popular so they can add him and go "but hey it's a beloved classic fire emblem character ;^)" because god forbid we get the 10/10 lorenz/camus support conversation we've always needed, and we've long since run out of slots before we can even start getting into potentially fun/interesting/iconic/meme characters like minerva, jeorge, linde, merric, wrys, rickard, jagen/gordin/cain/abel, navarre, etc.

as far as villains go that one doesn't seem too hard to me, basically boils down to how lazy they want to be

• shadow dragon: camus, no exceptions
  • nobody cares about gharnef, starlight would make for an annoying mechanic to write around, and camus is in like every game so why stop now; michalis is an alternative but when we're stopping to question whether or not minerva might get in it's time to just bring out camus
• awakening: in order of descending laziness: grima!robin, walhart (could partially recycle frederick), aversa (completely unique iirc)
  • walmart would have been my first pick for dem parallels, but with frederick confirmed, aversa stands out as adding an entirely unique role to the game that i'm not even sure any future character could add; having said that, i'd take them just using f!robin with a spooky aura if it meant more shadow dragon characters
• fates: in order of descending laziness: anankos!takumi, garon (axe form obviously)
  • garon is honestly the only humanoid fates antagonist i even remember very well tbh, but even if he wasn't he's an axe infantry and i do seem to note that we're rather short on those; having said that, i'd take them just using takumi with a spooky aura if it meant more shadow dragon characters

[bethany81707]

1 hour ago, Iridium said:

you're definitely not getting tana though lmao, and even as dlc/sequel bait, sacred stones will probably get stiffed because ike, roy, lyn, and hector aren't in it

I meant Tana in Heroes. Got two more attempts left, and they have to be in the same batch.

[Arthur97]

2 hours ago, Jedi said:

I didn't even consider this, thats actually pretty smart thinking.

Preferably double sided.

[Master Thunderblade]

I believe it is a bit presumptuous to assume that 25 cards equal 25 playable characters.

For all we'll know the cards could also feature generic enemies/allies, a group shot or NPCs... (Probably not, but still)

Edited August 29, 2017 by Master Thunderblade

[HK Motendra]

The lack of unit variety is worrisome.

Assuming that this 25 limit is the actual max, then that makes 20% of the roster as lord units. So far, there's only been 2 mounted horses, 3 flyers (one as a wyvern), 2.5 mages, one archer, one healer, one all-but confirmed transformer  and one non-lord myrm sword. That leaves out Knights, Mercs, & Fighters, if they're going for the basic classes, which with only 8 remaining spots, I doubt all are going to see the light of day, let alone another of the classes that are lacking

[bethany81707]

13 minutes ago, Motendra said:

The lack of unit variety is worrisome.

Assuming that this 25 limit is the actual max, then that makes 20% of the roster as lord units. So far, there's only been 2 mounted horses, 3 flyers (one as a wyvern), 2.5 mages, one archer, one healer, one all-but confirmed transformer  and one non-lord myrm sword. That leaves out Knights, Mercs, & Fighters, if they're going for the basic classes, which with only 8 remaining spots, I doubt all are going to see the light of day, let alone another of the classes that are lacking

We can apparently look forward to a knight, but we don't know whom- I'm not even convinced he's on the playable side. Fighter was always a long shot.

But at least we have two Robins!

[The DanMan]

Am I psychic? Can I start charging for fortune readings?

Looking at the poster, it looks like M!Corrin (18) could easily slot in right above F!Corrin. The empty spots on the Nohr and Hoshido parts of the poster, I think, could actually be for Azura (19) and Oboro (20). Alternatively, Azura could be in the center and IS just decided to give M!Corrin the middle finger; in which case, I believe the Nohr spot would go to Niles. 

With Awakening, the right side has room for one more spot. A spot meant for Tharja (21).

SD... 4 more reps + Tiki would make the poster look equal. Caeda is basically a shoe-in (22), though likely with a sword to differentiate herself from the other two PKs (but I can hope they pull a Toshiie Maeda and have her use the Wing Spear for charge attacks/musous. Then either Camus or Abel (23) with a lance; Camus' far more popular and has the Gradivus, but the PR about character relations makes me think Abel is a possibility. Depending on if they do really care for character relations, then either Gordin or Jeorge (my reasoning is if they go with Abel, then Gordin is likely as he's also part of Marth's starting party; if they go with Camus, then they're branching out and Jeorge has increased odds). So far, that's five lance users and only three axe users; as such, I believe the last slot goes to Draug with an axe.

8 minutes ago, phineas81707 said:

We can apparently look forward to a knight, but we don't know whom- I'm not even convinced he's on the playable side. Fighter was always a long shot.

What reason do you have to think that?
And if we want to get down to it, Lissa is an infantry axe unit here (with the specific reasoning of there not being enough axe users before).

[bethany81707]

2 minutes ago, The DanMan said:

What reason do you have to think that?
And if we want to get down to it, Lissa is an infantry axe unit here (with the specific reasoning of there not being enough axe users before).

I don't see who the armour is. That's basically it.

Fighter as a class didn't have anyone standout. The class was quietly dropped in Mystery!

[The DanMan]

2 minutes ago, phineas81707 said:

I don't see who the armour is. That's basically it.

Fighter as a class didn't have anyone standout. The class was quietly dropped in Mystery!

To which I say, Draug.

And Fighter was re-introduced in NME and has been an omnipresent class post-Kaga.

[bethany81707]

1 minute ago, The DanMan said:

To which I say, Draug.

And Fighter was re-introduced in NME and has been an omnipresent class post-Kaga.

...Nope, still not seeing him singularly.

I think the fact it wasn't in Mystery alone states just how problematic it would be to give the Fighter to an Archanean character (RANDOM SAJI!), and with the cast size looking like this...