JudgeWargrave Posted September 3, 2017 Share Posted September 3, 2017 The rule about Marcus being free up to Chapter 16 results in Marcus dominating those chapters, overshadowing the earlygame units, and making strategies and turncounts far more homogeneous among the players. There have been drafts [1] [2] that restricted Marcus to Chapter 22 for only the player that drafted him, but why not also allow him to be drafted before that point as well? Marcus before Chapter 22 is still pretty overcentralizing, so I arbitrarily set the divide point at 19x / 20. Earlygame Marcus exists for 11 chapters, lategame Marcus for 18 chapters, which seems very roughly equal in value. Since there are "two" more units now, Wallace/Geitz and Harken/Karel are demoted to "free" again. They would just make dead team slots anyway and make balancing teams harder. The rule about defend chapters is somewhat lame as well. This time, four out of the five will be treated as rout enemy chapters (the exception is Vaida's so you don't have to kill her in Ch26). After killing all the enemies, you can visit, build supports etc. as usual. I'm not sure how best to spice up the optional gaiden chapters, if at all, so this time they're unchanged. Rules of Play Spoiler Drafting 1. This draft is for 5 players. There are 35 units to draft. 2a. Hector is free for all to use by necessity. 2b. Merlinus, Ninian/Nils, and Athos are free due to their unique nature. 2c. Wallace/Gietz and Harken/Karel are free because they would only create dead team slots. 3. Bartre and Karla are drafted as a pair. 4. Marcus is drafted as two units, 1: up to Chapter 19x, and 2: from Chapter 20 on. Rules 1. The game will be played on Hector Normal Mode, skipping Lyn Mode. 2a. Undrafted units may move, recruit characters, rescue/drop undrafted units and NPCs, trade, merch, visit Shops and Armories, and dig up items in the desert. 2b. Undrafted units may not do anything not listed above, including but not limited to enter combat, use items, visit villages, steal, build Supports, talk to Fargus in Chapter 17x, or Seize Castles in Chapter 25. 3. Drafted units may do as they please without penalty. 4. All Gaiden Chapters except 19xx, 23x and 28x must be visited. 23x and 28x are optional, and don't count towards the total turncount up to 20 turns taken per chapter. 5a. Chapters 13x, 15, 28, and 31 count the last Player Phase for which enemies are present for turns (or last PP if enemy not routed). 5b. Chapter 26 counts as 11 turns (26 isn't included in 5a so killing Vaida doesn’t save turns). Penalties 1. You may use an undrafted unit as a drafted unit with a 4 turn penalty, per unit per chapter. Exceptions 1. Matthew is free for Chapter 11. 2. Unarmed, undrafted units may be attacked in Chapter 13x. 3. Lyn, Kent, Sain and Wil are free for Chapter 16. 4. Undrafted Thieves may be used to obtain necessary Promotion items. This will be auction style again. What's the point of having two guinea pig tests if not to iterate on the method? You can check these [1] [2] threads for more info if you aren't familiar with the concept. I've made a few improvements as well. Spoiler First, I caught a problem wherein the greedy algorithm that balances the team sizes would leave unnecessary preference violations in a small number of cases. That is, Player 1 may get Unit A, and Player 2 get Unit B, even if P1 bid more on UB than P2 did, and vice versa for UA, or more generally, the bid differentials would favor a swap to more closely adhere to the principle of "higher bid gets the unit". This should have happened twice in the previous auction: Carmine would have traded Isadora for Farina from Baldrick, and Horace would have traded Lowen for Hawkeye from Carmine, resulting in an average bid preference violation change of 8.02% to 6.65%. The auctioneer will now find and fix these after the team sizes are balanced. Another thing I caught during testing is problems with team distributions. For example, if all the player bid the same, except Player 5 bids 0.01 more on the last 7 units, they will get those units, and have a completely screwed team even though their bids were only slightly different. A similar thing could happen with getting 3 Orion's Bolt users, 4+ Guiding Ring users, etc. The old system only has the bids to use, and has no knowledge of (non) synergies. Initially I considered this a feature, not a bug, because it would produce teams very unlike traditional draft teams, but if it makes 4 weird teams and 1 well rounded one, then this "feature" could decide the outcome before the gameplay even begins. I made a routine that tries to remove some of the worst non synergies while only slightly violating the bids. The threshold I chose is conservative enough that it would not have made any changes to the previous auction. The best it could find was Horace trading Rebecca for Jaffar from me, because that would slightly smooth out our chapter join times, and reduce Horace from 2/3 to 1/3 Orion's Bolt users. PM me your bids and post so others know how many slots are left if you want to play. Here are some sample bids based of the prices generated for the last auction. Spoiler Matthew 5.07 Serra 3.65 Oswin 4.28 Eliwood 6.32 Lowen 9.88 Rebecca 3.02 Dorcas 3.95 Bartre+Karla 3.02 Marcus<=19x 7.00 Guy 1.2 Erk 9.07 Priscilla 6.07 Florina 11.38 Lyn 1.58 Sain 8.3 Kent 8.2 Wil 2.27 Raven 2.2 Lucius 6.82 Canas 8.32 Dart 2.9 Fiora 7.78 Legault 1.18 Marcus >=20 7.0 Isadora 2.88 Heath 11.38 Rath 5.7 Hawkeye 2.45 Farina 0.82 Pent 7.00 Louise 1.13 Nino 4.42 Jaffar 1.2 Vaida 2.95 Renault 0 Think carefully. Remember early game units will be more valuable without free Marcus. The change of defend chapters to rout chapters means there are more turns possible to save, so good units have more potential. And lastly, these prices are still somewhat flawed even under the rules of play they were generated for. There are almost certainly over 40 units of inaccuracy in these prices. If you change your mind before the last person joins, feel free to change your bids. Here is a pastebin of the lua script I'll be using. You can run it a variety of ways including vba. You can fiddle with the bids at line 786 to see it in action and test things out. SHA256 hash of my bids: c84903f0bb442ab73c260e870f15008100552ed92c17fd371ad99b3f5a2e35e4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudgeWargrave Posted January 17, 2018 Author Share Posted January 17, 2018 Finished school and felt like doing this again, so I'll just bump this rather than make a new thread. Anyone else up for some FE7? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sturm Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 This seems like a pretty interesting idea, I'll throw myself in, I'll PM you my bets when I have time, probably tommorow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athena_57 Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 I would like to join, but am unavailable until next Thursday. If not enough people join before then I'd love to join, if it's full I'll sit this one out. (Though I could still post bids before then) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudgeWargrave Posted January 21, 2018 Author Share Posted January 21, 2018 (edited) Feel free to send your bids whenever athena, unlike a draft there's no purpose in getting everyone online at the same time or anything like that. After you PM your bids you don't need to show up for any additional rounds before other people can start after all, we just need five people to join at some point rather than make 35 28 (accounting for double picks in snake order draft and the last pick has only one choice) posts in a specific sequence. Edited January 21, 2018 by JudgeWargrave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amg Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 I sent my bids in, let's see what happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudgeWargrave Posted February 4, 2018 Author Share Posted February 4, 2018 Putting this here for anyone that reaches this thread not through the r/FireEmblem discord in the next day or so; we have a fifth person, so as soon as I get their bids we will get started. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudgeWargrave Posted February 6, 2018 Author Share Posted February 6, 2018 (edited) Alright, all bids are in so we can begin. My bids were "Matthew 3.1, Serra 4.2, Oswin 1.9, Eliwood 4.1, Lowen 11.8, Rebecca 1.0, Dorcas 3.4, Bartre+Karla 3.2, Marcus pre-Ch20 6.7, Guy 1.1, Erk 5.9, Priscilla 4.6, Florina 12.9, Lyn 1.6, Sain 8.2, Kent 8.1, Wil 0.8, Raven 2.1, Lucius 5.1, Canas 4.7, Dart 2.0, Fiora 8.6, Legault 1.0, Marcus post-19x 6.2, Isadora 4.2, Heath 7.3, Rath 2.7, Hawkeye 1.5, Farina 0.5, Pent 3.3, Louise 0.3, Nino 0.3, Jaffar 0.0, Vaida 1.0, Renault 0.2" if you want to run the SHA256. Bids Spoiler Wargrave Athena Sturm amg GentleWind Matthew 03.10 03.00 03.00 03.76 05.00 Serra 04.20 03.50 04.00 04.01 00.50 Oswin 01.90 03.00 06.00 03.51 06.50 Eliwood 04.10 05.00 07.00 02.26 07.20 Lowen 11.80 14.00 11.00 04.26 14.00 Rebecca 01.00 01.00 03.00 00.51 02.00 Dorcas 03.40 04.00 04.00 02.51 06.00 Bartre&Kar 03.20 02.00 04.00 02.76 03.02 Marcus<=19 06.70 10.00 09.00 05.01 08.00 Guy 01.10 01.00 02.00 03.01 04.00 Erk 05.90 08.00 09.00 03.51 09.00 Priscilla 04.60 05.00 05.00 04.51 12.00 Florina 12.90 16.00 12.00 04.51 10.00 Lyn 01.60 00.50 02.00 02.26 04.00 Sain 08.20 08.40 09.00 04.26 08.30 Kent 08.10 08.30 09.00 04.26 08.20 Wil 00.80 00.00 02.00 00.26 00.00 Raven 02.10 03.00 07.00 03.76 06.00 Lucius 05.10 06.00 08.00 03.56 08.00 Canas 04.70 07.00 08.00 03.56 05.00 Dart 02.00 01.00 03.00 01.76 00.00 Fiora 08.60 08.00 09.00 04.01 12.00 Marcus>=20 06.20 04.00 08.00 05.01 07.00 Legault 01.00 00.50 01.00 02.76 01.00 Isadora 04.20 04.20 07.00 03.56 05.00 Heath 07.30 08.00 11.00 04.01 09.00 Rath 02.70 03.00 07.00 01.76 02.00 Hawkeye 01.50 02.00 05.00 02.76 06.00 Farina 00.50 02.00 01.00 03.01 00.00 Pent 03.30 05.00 07.00 03.76 10.00 Louise 00.30 00.50 01.00 01.51 04.00 Nino 00.30 00.00 02.00 00.26 00.00 Jaffar 00.00 00.50 01.00 00.76 03.00 Vaida 01.00 03.00 02.00 02.01 05.00 Renault 00.20 00.50 01.00 01.01 00.00 Auction process Spoiler Unbalanced teams Wargrave price | bid Serra 04.05 | 04.20 TOTAL 04.05, relative hc 00.00 Athena price | bid Lowen 12.24 | 14.00 Marcus<=19 09.20 | 10.00 Florina 13.52 | 16.00 TOTAL 34.96, relative hc 30.91 Sturm price | bid Rebecca 02.20 | 03.00 Bartre&Kar 03.36 | 04.00 Erk 08.20 | 09.00 Sain 08.52 | 09.00 Kent 08.44 | 09.00 Wil 01.04 | 02.00 Raven 06.20 | 07.00 Lucius 06.40 | 08.00 Canas 07.20 | 08.00 Dart 02.20 | 03.00 Marcus>=20 07.20 | 08.00 Isadora 05.40 | 07.00 Heath 09.40 | 11.00 Rath 03.80 | 07.00 Nino 00.64 | 02.00 TOTAL 80.20, relative hc 76.15 amg price | bid Legault 01.35 | 02.76 Farina 02.20 | 03.01 Renault 01.00 | 01.01 TOTAL 04.56, relative hc 00.51 GentleWind price | bid Matthew 04.01 | 05.00 Oswin 06.10 | 06.50 Eliwood 07.04 | 07.20 Lowen 12.24 | 14.00 Dorcas 04.40 | 06.00 Guy 03.21 | 04.00 Erk 08.20 | 09.00 Priscilla 06.40 | 12.00 Lyn 02.61 | 04.00 Lucius 06.40 | 08.00 Fiora 09.60 | 12.00 Hawkeye 05.20 | 06.00 Pent 07.60 | 10.00 Louise 02.01 | 04.00 Jaffar 01.40 | 03.00 Vaida 03.40 | 05.00 TOTAL 89.81, relative hc 85.76 Balancing Tiebreak: GentleWind ->Lowen ->Athena Tiebreak: GentleWind ->Erk ->Sturm Tiebreak: Sturm ->Lucius ->GentleWind Overfilled: GentleWind ->Lucius ->Sturm 0.00 pref violation Overfilled: Sturm ->Erk ->GentleWind 0.00 pref violation Overfilled: GentleWind ->Eliwood ->Sturm 0.20 pref violation Overfilled: GentleWind ->Oswin ->Sturm 0.50 pref violation Overfilled: Sturm ->Sain ->Athena 0.60 pref violation Overfilled: Sturm ->Kent ->Athena 0.70 pref violation Overfilled: Sturm ->Bartre&Kar ->Wargrave 0.80 pref violation Overfilled: GentleWind ->Guy ->amg 0.99 pref violation Overfilled: GentleWind ->Hawkeye ->Sturm 1.00 pref violation Overfilled: GentleWind ->Erk ->Athena 1.00 pref violation Overfilled: Sturm ->Marcus>=20 ->GentleWind 1.00 pref violation Overfilled: GentleWind ->Marcus>=20 ->Wargrave 0.80 pref violation Overfilled: Sturm ->Dart ->Wargrave 1.00 pref violation Overfilled: Sturm ->Canas ->Athena 1.00 pref violation Overfilled: Sturm ->Raven ->GentleWind 1.00 pref violation Overfilled: Sturm ->Rebecca ->GentleWind 1.00 pref violation Overfilled: GentleWind ->Rebecca ->Wargrave Athena 1.00 pref violation Tiebreak: Athena ->Rebecca ->Wargrave Overfilled: Sturm ->Wil ->Wargrave 1.20 pref violation Overfilled: GentleWind ->Matthew ->amg 1.24 pref violation Overfilled: Sturm ->Nino ->Wargrave 1.70 pref violation Overfilled: GentleWind ->Lyn ->amg 1.74 pref violation Overfilled: GentleWind ->Vaida ->Athena 2.00 pref violation Overfilled: Athena ->Lowen ->GentleWind 0.00 pref violation Overfilled: GentleWind ->Jaffar ->Sturm 2.00 pref violation Overfilled: Sturm ->Jaffar ->amg 0.24 pref violation Wargrave price | bid Serra 04.05 | 04.20 Rebecca 01.00 | 01.00 Bartre&Kar 03.06 | 03.20 Wil 00.37 | 00.80 Dart 01.81 | 02.00 Marcus>=20 05.25 | 06.20 Nino 00.27 | 00.30 TOTAL 15.80, relative hc 03.20 Athena price | bid Marcus<=19 09.20 | 10.00 Erk 06.32 | 08.00 Florina 13.52 | 16.00 Sain 08.32 | 08.40 Kent 08.22 | 08.30 Canas 05.40 | 07.00 Vaida 02.21 | 03.00 TOTAL 53.19, relative hc 40.59 Sturm price | bid Oswin 04.01 | 06.00 Eliwood 05.40 | 07.00 Lucius 08.00 | 08.00 Isadora 05.40 | 07.00 Heath 09.40 | 11.00 Rath 03.80 | 07.00 Hawkeye 03.21 | 05.00 TOTAL 39.22, relative hc 26.62 amg price | bid Matthew 03.23 | 03.76 Guy 02.20 | 03.01 Lyn 02.05 | 02.26 Legault 01.35 | 02.76 Farina 02.20 | 03.01 Jaffar 00.55 | 00.76 Renault 01.00 | 01.01 TOTAL 12.59, relative hc 00.00 GentleWind price | bid Lowen 14.00 | 14.00 Dorcas 04.40 | 06.00 Priscilla 06.40 | 12.00 Raven 04.21 | 06.00 Fiora 09.60 | 12.00 Pent 07.60 | 10.00 Louise 02.01 | 04.00 TOTAL 48.22, relative hc 35.62 average preference violation: 14.761707% cleaning up preference violations Swapping: GentleWind Lowen <-> Athena Vaida Swapping: GentleWind Raven <-> Sturm Hawkeye average preference violation: 12.161670% Chapter gaps Wargrave Serra 1 0/26=0.000 0.000 Rebecca 1 0/26=0.000 0.000 Bartre&Kar 1 0/26=0.000 0.000 Wil 7 6/26=0.231 0.053 Dart 10 3/26=0.115 0.013 Marcus>=20 12 2/26=0.077 0.006 Nino 21 9/26=0.346 0.120 -end- 27 6/26=0.231 0.053 sum of squares: 0.246 Athena Lowen 1 0/26=0.000 0.000 Marcus<=19 1 0/26=0.000 0.000 Erk 4 3/26=0.115 0.013 Florina 6 2/26=0.077 0.006 Sain 7 1/26=0.038 0.001 Kent 7 0/26=0.000 0.000 Canas 8 1/26=0.038 0.001 -end- 27 19/26=0.731 0.534 sum of squares: 0.556 Sturm Oswin 1 0/26=0.000 0.000 Eliwood 1 0/26=0.000 0.000 Raven 7 6/26=0.231 0.053 Lucius 7 0/26=0.000 0.000 Isadora 14 7/26=0.269 0.072 Heath 14 0/26=0.000 0.000 Rath 14 0/26=0.000 0.000 -end- 27 13/26=0.500 0.250 sum of squares: 0.376 amg Matthew 1 0/26=0.000 0.000 Guy 2 1/26=0.038 0.001 Lyn 7 5/26=0.192 0.037 Legault 12 5/26=0.192 0.037 Farina 18 6/26=0.231 0.053 Jaffar 22 4/26=0.154 0.024 Renault 27 5/26=0.192 0.037 -end- 27 0/26=0.000 0.000 sum of squares: 0.189 GentleWind Dorcas 1 0/26=0.000 0.000 Priscilla 4 3/26=0.115 0.013 Fiora 10 6/26=0.231 0.053 Hawkeye 15 5/26=0.192 0.037 Pent 19 4/26=0.154 0.024 Louise 19 0/26=0.000 0.000 Vaida 23 4/26=0.154 0.024 -end- 27 4/26=0.154 0.024 sum of squares: 0.175 total 1.54142011834 Promo classes Wargrave None 1/9=0.111 0.000 hCrst 1/4=0.250 0.063 oBolt 2/3=0.667 0.444 gRing 2/6=0.333 0.111 oSeal 1/1=1.000 1.000 sum of squares: 1.618 Athena None 1/9=0.111 0.000 kCrst 3/4=0.750 0.563 eWhip 1/4=0.250 0.063 gRing 2/6=0.333 0.111 sum of squares: 0.736 Sturm None 1/9=0.111 0.000 kCrst 1/4=0.250 0.063 hCrst 1/4=0.250 0.063 oBolt 1/3=0.333 0.111 eWhip 1/4=0.250 0.063 gRing 1/6=0.167 0.028 hSeal 1/2=0.500 0.250 sum of squares: 0.576 amg None 2/9=0.222 0.000 hCrst 1/4=0.250 0.063 eWhip 1/4=0.250 0.063 hSeal 1/2=0.500 0.250 FellC 2/2=1.000 1.000 sum of squares: 1.375 GentleWind None 4/9=0.444 0.000 hCrst 1/4=0.250 0.063 eWhip 1/4=0.250 0.063 gRing 1/6=0.167 0.028 sum of squares: 0.153 total 4.46 Attempting to balance chapter gaps and promotion classes old CGSoS 1.541420, PCSoS 4.458333, prefVio 12.161670% Swapping: Wargrave Rebecca <-> Athena Sain new CGSoS 1.541420, PCSoS 3.986111, prefVio 12.291672% value 363.242778 old CGSoS 1.541420, PCSoS 3.986111, prefVio 12.291672% Swapping: amg Matthew <-> Wargrave Serra new CGSoS 1.541420, PCSoS 3.430556, prefVio 12.844180% value 100.551634 no acceptable swap, best candidate old CGSoS 1.541420, PCSoS 3.430556, prefVio 12.844180% Swapping: Athena Rebecca <-> amg Jaffar new CGSoS 1.393491, PCSoS 3.430556, prefVio 13.331687% value 30.343984 --Final teams-- Wargrave price | bid Matthew 03.02 | 03.10 Bartre&Kar 03.06 | 03.20 Sain 05.05 | 08.20 Wil 00.37 | 00.80 Dart 01.81 | 02.00 Marcus>=20 05.25 | 06.20 Nino 00.27 | 00.30 TOTAL 18.82, relative hc 05.45 Athena price | bid Lowen 14.00 | 14.00 Rebecca 01.00 | 01.00 Marcus<=19 09.20 | 10.00 Erk 06.32 | 08.00 Florina 13.52 | 16.00 Kent 08.22 | 08.30 Canas 05.40 | 07.00 TOTAL 57.66, relative hc 44.30 Sturm price | bid Oswin 04.01 | 06.00 Eliwood 05.40 | 07.00 Raven 06.20 | 07.00 Lucius 08.00 | 08.00 Isadora 05.40 | 07.00 Heath 09.40 | 11.00 Rath 03.80 | 07.00 TOTAL 42.21, relative hc 28.84 amg price | bid Serra 04.00 | 04.01 Guy 02.20 | 03.01 Lyn 02.05 | 02.26 Legault 01.35 | 02.76 Farina 02.20 | 03.01 Jaffar 00.55 | 00.76 Renault 01.00 | 01.01 TOTAL 13.36, relative hc 00.00 GentleWind price | bid Dorcas 04.40 | 06.00 Priscilla 06.40 | 12.00 Fiora 09.60 | 12.00 Hawkeye 05.20 | 06.00 Pent 07.60 | 10.00 Louise 02.01 | 04.00 Vaida 03.40 | 05.00 TOTAL 38.61, relative hc 25.24 Teams Wargrave: Matthew, Bartre&Karla, Sain, Wil, Dart, Marcus>=20, Nino. Handicap 18.82, relative hc 05.45 Completed in 138 turns, 156.82 with handicap Athena: Lowen, Rebecca, Marcus<=19x, Erk, Florina, Kent, Canas. Handicap 57.66, relative hc 44.30 Completed in 118 turns, 175.66 with handicap Sturm: Oswin, Eliwood, Raven, Lucius, Isadora, Heath, Rath. Handicap 42.21, relative hc 28.84 Completed in 119 turns, 161.21 with handicap amg: Serra, Guy, Lyn, Legault, Farina, Jaffar, Renault. Handicap 13.36, relative hc 00.00 Completed in 180 turns, 193.36 with handicap GentleWind: Dorcas, Priscilla, Fiora, Hawkeye, Pent, Louise, Vaida. Handicap 38.61, relative hc 25.24 It seems once again I have no warper unless Nino can get A rank staves. This time I don't even have Renault to bail me out, nor do I have a flyer. However my handicap is really low. Athena has the highest handicap but of course the best team. We will see just how much of that gap early Marcus will make up. Sturm will have slow going with no mounted units for quite a while until suddenly getting three in one chapter. amg got the lowest handicap, but will immediately have trouble with chapter 12. I think taking the 4 turn penalty and using Marcus will be necessary unless the southern units can stay out of combat entirely. Still, starting with a 40+ turn lead will make it interesting on how quickly Athena can catch up. Gentle Wind probably has the closest to a balanced team and the median handicap. Looking at the bids overall, the average bids were 5.45 for Gentle Wind, 5.43 for Sturm, 4.31 for Athena, 3.82 for me, and 2.97 for amg. Quite a spread still. In terms of bids on a per unit basis, the biggest standouts are clearly amgs low valuations for Florina and Lowen, considering Florina to be over 11 turns less valuable than Athena did. Since some people bid higher or lower overall, cross comparison might not be too meaningful when trying to look at ranking, so a wrote a function to analyse pairs of units on a per player basis, looking for deviations from average. Here's a complete list of all deviations greater than 4 turns, of which there are 200! Hopefully the spoiler doesn't break at any time in the future, lol Spoiler 001 preference deviation noted, comparing: Oswin Florina Average: -6.90 Wargrave : -11.00 Deviation: -4.10 002 preference deviation noted, comparing: Florina Raven Average: 06.71 Wargrave : 10.80 Deviation: 04.09 003 preference deviation noted, comparing: Florina Pent Average: 05.27 Wargrave : 09.60 Deviation: 04.33 004 preference deviation noted, comparing: Matthew Florina Average: -7.51 Athena : -13.00 Deviation: -5.49 005 preference deviation noted, comparing: Serra Florina Average: -7.84 Athena : -12.50 Deviation: -4.66 006 preference deviation noted, comparing: Oswin Lowen Average: -6.83 Athena : -11.00 Deviation: -4.17 007 preference deviation noted, comparing: Oswin Florina Average: -6.90 Athena : -13.00 Deviation: -6.10 008 preference deviation noted, comparing: Eliwood Florina Average: -5.97 Athena : -11.00 Deviation: -5.03 009 preference deviation noted, comparing: Lowen Guy Average: 08.79 Athena : 13.00 Deviation: 04.21 010 preference deviation noted, comparing: Lowen Priscilla Average: 04.79 Athena : 09.00 Deviation: 04.21 011 preference deviation noted, comparing: Lowen Lyn Average: 08.94 Athena : 13.50 Deviation: 04.56 012 preference deviation noted, comparing: Lowen Raven Average: 06.64 Athena : 11.00 Deviation: 04.36 013 preference deviation noted, comparing: Lowen Marcus>=20 Average: 04.97 Athena : 10.00 Deviation: 05.03 014 preference deviation noted, comparing: Lowen Hawkeye Average: 07.56 Athena : 12.00 Deviation: 04.44 015 preference deviation noted, comparing: Rebecca Florina Average: -9.58 Athena : -15.00 Deviation: -5.42 016 preference deviation noted, comparing: Dorcas Florina Average: -7.10 Athena : -12.00 Deviation: -4.90 017 preference deviation noted, comparing: Bartre&Kar Florina Average: -8.09 Athena : -14.00 Deviation: -5.91 018 preference deviation noted, comparing: Marcus<=19 Marcus>=20 Average: 01.70 Athena : 06.00 Deviation: 04.30 019 preference deviation noted, comparing: Guy Florina Average: -8.86 Athena : -15.00 Deviation: -6.14 020 preference deviation noted, comparing: Erk Florina Average: -4.00 Athena : -8.00 Deviation: -4.00 021 preference deviation noted, comparing: Priscilla Florina Average: -4.86 Athena : -11.00 Deviation: -6.14 022 preference deviation noted, comparing: Florina Lyn Average: 09.01 Athena : 15.50 Deviation: 06.49 023 preference deviation noted, comparing: Florina Sain Average: 03.45 Athena : 07.60 Deviation: 04.15 024 preference deviation noted, comparing: Florina Kent Average: 03.51 Athena : 07.70 Deviation: 04.19 025 preference deviation noted, comparing: Florina Wil Average: 10.47 Athena : 16.00 Deviation: 05.53 026 preference deviation noted, comparing: Florina Raven Average: 06.71 Athena : 13.00 Deviation: 06.29 027 preference deviation noted, comparing: Florina Lucius Average: 04.95 Athena : 10.00 Deviation: 05.05 028 preference deviation noted, comparing: Florina Dart Average: 09.53 Athena : 15.00 Deviation: 05.47 029 preference deviation noted, comparing: Florina Fiora Average: 02.76 Athena : 08.00 Deviation: 05.24 030 preference deviation noted, comparing: Florina Marcus>=20 Average: 05.04 Athena : 12.00 Deviation: 06.96 031 preference deviation noted, comparing: Florina Legault Average: 09.83 Athena : 15.50 Deviation: 05.67 032 preference deviation noted, comparing: Florina Isadora Average: 06.29 Athena : 11.80 Deviation: 05.51 033 preference deviation noted, comparing: Florina Heath Average: 03.22 Athena : 08.00 Deviation: 04.78 034 preference deviation noted, comparing: Florina Rath Average: 07.79 Athena : 13.00 Deviation: 05.21 035 preference deviation noted, comparing: Florina Hawkeye Average: 07.63 Athena : 14.00 Deviation: 06.37 036 preference deviation noted, comparing: Florina Farina Average: 09.78 Athena : 14.00 Deviation: 04.22 037 preference deviation noted, comparing: Florina Pent Average: 05.27 Athena : 11.00 Deviation: 05.73 038 preference deviation noted, comparing: Florina Louise Average: 09.62 Athena : 15.50 Deviation: 05.88 039 preference deviation noted, comparing: Florina Nino Average: 10.57 Athena : 16.00 Deviation: 05.43 040 preference deviation noted, comparing: Florina Jaffar Average: 10.03 Athena : 15.50 Deviation: 05.47 041 preference deviation noted, comparing: Florina Vaida Average: 08.48 Athena : 13.00 Deviation: 04.52 042 preference deviation noted, comparing: Florina Renault Average: 10.54 Athena : 15.50 Deviation: 04.96 001 Misordering 043 preference deviation noted, comparing: Matthew Rath Average: 00.28 Sturm : -4.00 Deviation: -4.28 044 preference deviation noted, comparing: Priscilla Heath Average: -1.64 Sturm : -6.00 Deviation: -4.36 002 Misordering 045 preference deviation noted, comparing: Priscilla Rath Average: 02.93 Sturm : -2.00 Deviation: -4.93 046 preference deviation noted, comparing: Rath Farina Average: 01.99 Sturm : 06.00 Deviation: 04.01 047 preference deviation noted, comparing: Rath Louise Average: 01.83 Sturm : 06.00 Deviation: 04.17 048 preference deviation noted, comparing: Rath Vaida Average: 00.69 Sturm : 05.00 Deviation: 04.31 049 preference deviation noted, comparing: Matthew Lowen Average: -7.44 amg : -0.50 Deviation: 06.94 050 preference deviation noted, comparing: Matthew Florina Average: -7.51 amg : -0.75 Deviation: 06.76 051 preference deviation noted, comparing: Matthew Fiora Average: -4.75 amg : -0.25 Deviation: 04.50 052 preference deviation noted, comparing: Matthew Heath Average: -4.29 amg : -0.25 Deviation: 04.04 053 preference deviation noted, comparing: Serra Lowen Average: -7.77 amg : -0.25 Deviation: 07.52 003 Misordering 054 preference deviation noted, comparing: Serra Erk Average: -3.84 amg : 00.50 Deviation: 04.34 055 preference deviation noted, comparing: Serra Florina Average: -7.84 amg : -0.50 Deviation: 07.34 056 preference deviation noted, comparing: Serra Sain Average: -4.39 amg : -0.25 Deviation: 04.14 057 preference deviation noted, comparing: Serra Kent Average: -4.33 amg : -0.25 Deviation: 04.08 058 preference deviation noted, comparing: Serra Fiora Average: -5.08 amg : 00.00 Deviation: 05.08 059 preference deviation noted, comparing: Serra Heath Average: -4.62 amg : 00.00 Deviation: 04.62 060 preference deviation noted, comparing: Oswin Lowen Average: -6.83 amg : -0.75 Deviation: 06.08 061 preference deviation noted, comparing: Oswin Florina Average: -6.90 amg : -1.00 Deviation: 05.90 004 Misordering 062 preference deviation noted, comparing: Eliwood Legault Average: 03.86 amg : -0.50 Deviation: -4.36 005 Misordering 063 preference deviation noted, comparing: Eliwood Farina Average: 03.81 amg : -0.75 Deviation: -4.56 064 preference deviation noted, comparing: Lowen Rebecca Average: 09.51 amg : 03.75 Deviation: -5.76 065 preference deviation noted, comparing: Lowen Dorcas Average: 07.03 amg : 01.75 Deviation: -5.28 066 preference deviation noted, comparing: Lowen Bartre&Kar Average: 08.02 amg : 01.50 Deviation: -6.52 006 Misordering 067 preference deviation noted, comparing: Lowen Marcus<=19 Average: 03.27 amg : -0.75 Deviation: -4.02 068 preference deviation noted, comparing: Lowen Guy Average: 08.79 amg : 01.25 Deviation: -7.54 007 Misordering 069 preference deviation noted, comparing: Lowen Priscilla Average: 04.79 amg : -0.25 Deviation: -5.04 070 preference deviation noted, comparing: Lowen Lyn Average: 08.94 amg : 02.00 Deviation: -6.94 071 preference deviation noted, comparing: Lowen Wil Average: 10.40 amg : 04.00 Deviation: -6.40 072 preference deviation noted, comparing: Lowen Raven Average: 06.64 amg : 00.50 Deviation: -6.14 073 preference deviation noted, comparing: Lowen Lucius Average: 04.88 amg : 00.70 Deviation: -4.18 074 preference deviation noted, comparing: Lowen Canas Average: 05.36 amg : 00.70 Deviation: -4.66 075 preference deviation noted, comparing: Lowen Dart Average: 09.46 amg : 02.50 Deviation: -6.96 008 Misordering 076 preference deviation noted, comparing: Lowen Marcus>=20 Average: 04.97 amg : -0.75 Deviation: -5.72 077 preference deviation noted, comparing: Lowen Legault Average: 09.76 amg : 01.50 Deviation: -8.26 078 preference deviation noted, comparing: Lowen Isadora Average: 06.22 amg : 00.70 Deviation: -5.52 079 preference deviation noted, comparing: Lowen Rath Average: 07.72 amg : 02.50 Deviation: -5.22 080 preference deviation noted, comparing: Lowen Hawkeye Average: 07.56 amg : 01.50 Deviation: -6.06 081 preference deviation noted, comparing: Lowen Farina Average: 09.71 amg : 01.25 Deviation: -8.46 082 preference deviation noted, comparing: Lowen Pent Average: 05.20 amg : 00.50 Deviation: -4.70 083 preference deviation noted, comparing: Lowen Louise Average: 09.55 amg : 02.75 Deviation: -6.80 084 preference deviation noted, comparing: Lowen Nino Average: 10.50 amg : 04.00 Deviation: -6.50 085 preference deviation noted, comparing: Lowen Jaffar Average: 09.96 amg : 03.50 Deviation: -6.46 086 preference deviation noted, comparing: Lowen Vaida Average: 08.41 amg : 02.25 Deviation: -6.16 087 preference deviation noted, comparing: Lowen Renault Average: 10.47 amg : 03.25 Deviation: -7.22 088 preference deviation noted, comparing: Rebecca Florina Average: -9.58 amg : -4.00 Deviation: 05.58 089 preference deviation noted, comparing: Dorcas Florina Average: -7.10 amg : -2.00 Deviation: 05.10 090 preference deviation noted, comparing: Bartre&Kar Florina Average: -8.09 amg : -1.75 Deviation: 06.34 091 preference deviation noted, comparing: Bartre&Kar Fiora Average: -5.33 amg : -1.25 Deviation: 04.08 092 preference deviation noted, comparing: Marcus<=19 Legault Average: 06.49 amg : 02.25 Deviation: -4.24 093 preference deviation noted, comparing: Marcus<=19 Farina Average: 06.44 amg : 02.00 Deviation: -4.44 094 preference deviation noted, comparing: Guy Erk Average: -4.86 amg : -0.50 Deviation: 04.36 095 preference deviation noted, comparing: Guy Florina Average: -8.86 amg : -1.50 Deviation: 07.36 096 preference deviation noted, comparing: Guy Sain Average: -5.41 amg : -1.25 Deviation: 04.16 097 preference deviation noted, comparing: Guy Kent Average: -5.35 amg : -1.25 Deviation: 04.10 098 preference deviation noted, comparing: Guy Fiora Average: -6.10 amg : -1.00 Deviation: 05.10 099 preference deviation noted, comparing: Guy Heath Average: -5.64 amg : -1.00 Deviation: 04.64 100 preference deviation noted, comparing: Erk Legault Average: 05.83 amg : 00.75 Deviation: -5.08 101 preference deviation noted, comparing: Erk Farina Average: 05.78 amg : 00.50 Deviation: -5.28 102 preference deviation noted, comparing: Erk Renault Average: 06.54 amg : 02.50 Deviation: -4.04 103 preference deviation noted, comparing: Priscilla Florina Average: -4.86 amg : 00.00 Deviation: 04.86 104 preference deviation noted, comparing: Florina Lyn Average: 09.01 amg : 02.25 Deviation: -6.76 105 preference deviation noted, comparing: Florina Wil Average: 10.47 amg : 04.25 Deviation: -6.22 106 preference deviation noted, comparing: Florina Raven Average: 06.71 amg : 00.75 Deviation: -5.96 107 preference deviation noted, comparing: Florina Canas Average: 05.43 amg : 00.95 Deviation: -4.48 108 preference deviation noted, comparing: Florina Dart Average: 09.53 amg : 02.75 Deviation: -6.78 009 Misordering 109 preference deviation noted, comparing: Florina Marcus>=20 Average: 05.04 amg : -0.50 Deviation: -5.54 110 preference deviation noted, comparing: Florina Legault Average: 09.83 amg : 01.75 Deviation: -8.08 111 preference deviation noted, comparing: Florina Isadora Average: 06.29 amg : 00.95 Deviation: -5.34 112 preference deviation noted, comparing: Florina Rath Average: 07.79 amg : 02.75 Deviation: -5.04 113 preference deviation noted, comparing: Florina Hawkeye Average: 07.63 amg : 01.75 Deviation: -5.88 114 preference deviation noted, comparing: Florina Farina Average: 09.78 amg : 01.50 Deviation: -8.28 115 preference deviation noted, comparing: Florina Pent Average: 05.27 amg : 00.75 Deviation: -4.52 116 preference deviation noted, comparing: Florina Louise Average: 09.62 amg : 03.00 Deviation: -6.62 117 preference deviation noted, comparing: Florina Nino Average: 10.57 amg : 04.25 Deviation: -6.32 118 preference deviation noted, comparing: Florina Jaffar Average: 10.03 amg : 03.75 Deviation: -6.28 119 preference deviation noted, comparing: Florina Vaida Average: 08.48 amg : 02.50 Deviation: -5.98 120 preference deviation noted, comparing: Florina Renault Average: 10.54 amg : 03.50 Deviation: -7.04 121 preference deviation noted, comparing: Lyn Fiora Average: -6.25 amg : -1.75 Deviation: 04.50 122 preference deviation noted, comparing: Lyn Heath Average: -5.79 amg : -1.75 Deviation: 04.04 123 preference deviation noted, comparing: Sain Legault Average: 06.38 amg : 01.50 Deviation: -4.88 124 preference deviation noted, comparing: Sain Farina Average: 06.33 amg : 01.25 Deviation: -5.08 125 preference deviation noted, comparing: Kent Legault Average: 06.32 amg : 01.50 Deviation: -4.82 126 preference deviation noted, comparing: Kent Farina Average: 06.27 amg : 01.25 Deviation: -5.02 127 preference deviation noted, comparing: Lucius Legault Average: 04.88 amg : 00.80 Deviation: -4.08 128 preference deviation noted, comparing: Lucius Farina Average: 04.83 amg : 00.55 Deviation: -4.28 129 preference deviation noted, comparing: Dart Fiora Average: -6.77 amg : -2.25 Deviation: 04.52 130 preference deviation noted, comparing: Dart Heath Average: -6.31 amg : -2.25 Deviation: 04.06 131 preference deviation noted, comparing: Fiora Legault Average: 07.07 amg : 01.25 Deviation: -5.82 132 preference deviation noted, comparing: Fiora Farina Average: 07.02 amg : 01.00 Deviation: -6.02 133 preference deviation noted, comparing: Fiora Louise Average: 06.86 amg : 02.50 Deviation: -4.36 134 preference deviation noted, comparing: Fiora Nino Average: 07.81 amg : 03.75 Deviation: -4.06 135 preference deviation noted, comparing: Fiora Jaffar Average: 07.27 amg : 03.25 Deviation: -4.02 136 preference deviation noted, comparing: Fiora Renault Average: 07.78 amg : 03.00 Deviation: -4.78 137 preference deviation noted, comparing: Legault Heath Average: -6.61 amg : -1.25 Deviation: 05.36 138 preference deviation noted, comparing: Heath Farina Average: 06.56 amg : 01.00 Deviation: -5.56 139 preference deviation noted, comparing: Heath Renault Average: 07.32 amg : 03.00 Deviation: -4.32 140 preference deviation noted, comparing: Matthew Serra Average: 00.33 GentleWind: 04.50 Deviation: 04.17 141 preference deviation noted, comparing: Matthew Priscilla Average: -2.65 GentleWind: -7.00 Deviation: -4.35 142 preference deviation noted, comparing: Serra Oswin Average: -0.94 GentleWind: -6.00 Deviation: -5.06 143 preference deviation noted, comparing: Serra Eliwood Average: -1.87 GentleWind: -6.70 Deviation: -4.83 144 preference deviation noted, comparing: Serra Lowen Average: -7.77 GentleWind: -13.50 Deviation: -5.73 145 preference deviation noted, comparing: Serra Dorcas Average: -0.74 GentleWind: -5.50 Deviation: -4.76 010 Misordering 146 preference deviation noted, comparing: Serra Guy Average: 01.02 GentleWind: -3.50 Deviation: -4.52 147 preference deviation noted, comparing: Serra Erk Average: -3.84 GentleWind: -8.50 Deviation: -4.66 148 preference deviation noted, comparing: Serra Priscilla Average: -2.98 GentleWind: -11.50 Deviation: -8.52 011 Misordering 149 preference deviation noted, comparing: Serra Lyn Average: 01.17 GentleWind: -3.50 Deviation: -4.67 150 preference deviation noted, comparing: Serra Raven Average: -1.13 GentleWind: -5.50 Deviation: -4.37 151 preference deviation noted, comparing: Serra Lucius Average: -2.89 GentleWind: -7.50 Deviation: -4.61 152 preference deviation noted, comparing: Serra Fiora Average: -5.08 GentleWind: -11.50 Deviation: -6.42 153 preference deviation noted, comparing: Serra Hawkeye Average: -0.21 GentleWind: -5.50 Deviation: -5.29 154 preference deviation noted, comparing: Serra Pent Average: -2.57 GentleWind: -9.50 Deviation: -6.93 012 Misordering 155 preference deviation noted, comparing: Serra Louise Average: 01.78 GentleWind: -3.50 Deviation: -5.28 013 Misordering 156 preference deviation noted, comparing: Serra Jaffar Average: 02.19 GentleWind: -2.50 Deviation: -4.69 014 Misordering 157 preference deviation noted, comparing: Serra Vaida Average: 00.64 GentleWind: -4.50 Deviation: -5.14 015 Misordering 158 preference deviation noted, comparing: Lowen Florina Average: -0.07 GentleWind: 04.00 Deviation: 04.07 159 preference deviation noted, comparing: Lowen Dart Average: 09.46 GentleWind: 14.00 Deviation: 04.54 160 preference deviation noted, comparing: Lowen Rath Average: 07.72 GentleWind: 12.00 Deviation: 04.28 161 preference deviation noted, comparing: Lowen Farina Average: 09.71 GentleWind: 14.00 Deviation: 04.29 162 preference deviation noted, comparing: Rebecca Priscilla Average: -4.72 GentleWind: -10.00 Deviation: -5.28 163 preference deviation noted, comparing: Bartre&Kar Priscilla Average: -3.23 GentleWind: -8.98 Deviation: -5.75 164 preference deviation noted, comparing: Bartre&Kar Pent Average: -2.82 GentleWind: -6.98 Deviation: -4.16 016 Misordering 165 preference deviation noted, comparing: Marcus<=19 Priscilla Average: 01.52 GentleWind: -4.00 Deviation: -5.52 166 preference deviation noted, comparing: Guy Priscilla Average: -4.00 GentleWind: -8.00 Deviation: -4.00 017 Misordering 167 preference deviation noted, comparing: Priscilla Florina Average: -4.86 GentleWind: 02.00 Deviation: 06.86 018 Misordering 168 preference deviation noted, comparing: Priscilla Sain Average: -1.41 GentleWind: 03.70 Deviation: 05.11 019 Misordering 169 preference deviation noted, comparing: Priscilla Kent Average: -1.35 GentleWind: 03.80 Deviation: 05.15 170 preference deviation noted, comparing: Priscilla Wil Average: 05.61 GentleWind: 12.00 Deviation: 06.39 171 preference deviation noted, comparing: Priscilla Raven Average: 01.85 GentleWind: 06.00 Deviation: 04.15 172 preference deviation noted, comparing: Priscilla Canas Average: 00.57 GentleWind: 07.00 Deviation: 06.43 173 preference deviation noted, comparing: Priscilla Dart Average: 04.67 GentleWind: 12.00 Deviation: 07.33 174 preference deviation noted, comparing: Priscilla Marcus>=20 Average: 00.18 GentleWind: 05.00 Deviation: 04.82 175 preference deviation noted, comparing: Priscilla Legault Average: 04.97 GentleWind: 11.00 Deviation: 06.03 176 preference deviation noted, comparing: Priscilla Isadora Average: 01.43 GentleWind: 07.00 Deviation: 05.57 020 Misordering 177 preference deviation noted, comparing: Priscilla Heath Average: -1.64 GentleWind: 03.00 Deviation: 04.64 178 preference deviation noted, comparing: Priscilla Rath Average: 02.93 GentleWind: 10.00 Deviation: 07.07 179 preference deviation noted, comparing: Priscilla Farina Average: 04.92 GentleWind: 12.00 Deviation: 07.08 180 preference deviation noted, comparing: Priscilla Nino Average: 05.71 GentleWind: 12.00 Deviation: 06.29 181 preference deviation noted, comparing: Priscilla Renault Average: 05.68 GentleWind: 12.00 Deviation: 06.32 021 Misordering 182 preference deviation noted, comparing: Florina Fiora Average: 02.76 GentleWind: -2.00 Deviation: -4.76 183 preference deviation noted, comparing: Florina Pent Average: 05.27 GentleWind: 00.00 Deviation: -5.27 184 preference deviation noted, comparing: Wil Fiora Average: -7.71 GentleWind: -12.00 Deviation: -4.29 185 preference deviation noted, comparing: Wil Pent Average: -5.20 GentleWind: -10.00 Deviation: -4.80 186 preference deviation noted, comparing: Canas Fiora Average: -2.67 GentleWind: -7.00 Deviation: -4.33 187 preference deviation noted, comparing: Canas Pent Average: -0.16 GentleWind: -5.00 Deviation: -4.84 188 preference deviation noted, comparing: Dart Fiora Average: -6.77 GentleWind: -12.00 Deviation: -5.23 189 preference deviation noted, comparing: Dart Hawkeye Average: -1.90 GentleWind: -6.00 Deviation: -4.10 190 preference deviation noted, comparing: Dart Pent Average: -4.26 GentleWind: -10.00 Deviation: -5.74 022 Misordering 191 preference deviation noted, comparing: Dart Louise Average: 00.09 GentleWind: -4.00 Deviation: -4.09 192 preference deviation noted, comparing: Fiora Rath Average: 05.03 GentleWind: 10.00 Deviation: 04.97 193 preference deviation noted, comparing: Fiora Farina Average: 07.02 GentleWind: 12.00 Deviation: 04.98 194 preference deviation noted, comparing: Fiora Nino Average: 07.81 GentleWind: 12.00 Deviation: 04.19 195 preference deviation noted, comparing: Fiora Renault Average: 07.78 GentleWind: 12.00 Deviation: 04.22 196 preference deviation noted, comparing: Legault Pent Average: -4.56 GentleWind: -9.00 Deviation: -4.44 197 preference deviation noted, comparing: Rath Pent Average: -2.52 GentleWind: -8.00 Deviation: -5.48 198 preference deviation noted, comparing: Farina Pent Average: -4.51 GentleWind: -10.00 Deviation: -5.49 199 preference deviation noted, comparing: Pent Nino Average: 05.30 GentleWind: 10.00 Deviation: 04.70 200 preference deviation noted, comparing: Pent Renault Average: 05.27 GentleWind: 10.00 Deviation: 04.73 Some noteworthy rankings that bucked the trend: Everyone except Sturm valued Matthew and Priscilla more or as much as Rath. Sturm rated Matthew 4 turns worse, deviating from average by 4.28, and rated Priscilla 2 turns worse, deviating from average by 4.93. Everyone except amg valued Erk more than Serra. amg rated Serra 0.5 turns better, deviating from average by 4.34. Everyone except amg valued Eliwood more than Legault or Farina. amg rated Legault 0.5 turns better, deviating from average by 4.36, and rated Farina 0.75 turns better, deviating from average by 4.56. I'm going to skip everything related to amg and Lowen/Florina. Everyone except Gentle Wind valued Serra more than Guy, Lyn, Louise, Jaffar, or Vaida. Gentle Wind rated Guy 3.5 turns better, deviating from average by 4.52, rated Lyn 3.5 turns better, deviating from average by 4.67, rated Louise 3.5 turns better, deviating from average by 5.28, rated Jaffar 2.5 turns better, deviating from average by 4.69, and rated Vaida 4.5 turns better, deviating from average by 5.14. Probably would have skipped this too if I realized how many there would be at first. Perhaps Gentle Wind just finds Serra as annoying as the in game characters do. Everyone except Gentle Wind valued Florina more than Lowen or Fiora. Gentle Wind rated Lowen 4 turns better, deviating from average by 4.07, and rated Fiora 2 turns better, deviating from average by 4.76. Everyone except Gentle Wind valued early Marcus and Florina more than or as much as Priscilla. Gentle Wind rated early Marcus 4 turns worse, deviating from average by 5.52, and rated Florina 2 turns worse, deviating from average by 6.86. Everyone except Gentle Wind valued Dart more than Louise. Gentle Wind rated Louise 4 turns better, deviating from average by 4.09. If you can't tell, I like crunching these numbers almost as much as I like playing the game. Speaking of which, time to get started! I'll be making videos again, might be a while before they start going up though. Have fun everyone! Edited August 5, 2018 by JudgeWargrave Adding turncounts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athena_57 Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 (edited) Huh, interesting. Glad I got some good high mov units, solid earlygame and a warper, that handicap is serious though xD. Kinda sucks I got both Erk and Canas as I won't be staff training both, huh. Well, time to plan out the promotions, good luck everyone! EDIT: Might as well start writing my turncount here: Chapter 11- 6/6 Turns Nothing special, except Hector got SPD both level ups, which was great. Chapter 12-4/10 Turns I didn't bother with the village as I don't care about the secret book/the gold enough. Lowen and Rebecca cleared the southern region, whilst Marcus went north. Hector killed some dudes in the north whilst walking east, baited the boss turn 3 EP, attacked him turn 4 PP and killed him turn 4 EP. Chapter 13-5/15 Turns Lowen went north to visit the village and bait+kill a pegasus, so Eiwood could walk across the river towards the armory without seeing combat. Marcus rescued Hector and walked towards the boss. Guy crit Marcus, but he was still fine. Rebecca picked off stragglers, Matt recruited Guy, who ran away, opening the path for Marcus. Matthew equipped a sword so a fighter attacked Rebecca instead of him, so he stayed out of combat. Hector was dropped on turn 4, Marcus killed the boss turn 5, Eliwood reached the Armory for an extra hand axe and some javelins and Hector seized. Chapter 13x-4/19 Turns Lowen went Southeast, Hector west, Marcus north and killed the boss. Rebecca chipped in here and there. Hector and Marcus killed their final opponents on turn 4 PP, Lowen needed turn 4 EP for the final kill, leaving me enough time to visit the village (and build that juicy Rebecca x Lowen support :P) Chapter 14-5/24 Turns Note: I had 6 turns here earlier, but improved that later. Marcus went west to kill the boss and the bulk of the enemies, serra recruited Erk, who killed some enemies in the northeast, the others killed the pirates+stragglers. I did not visit either village, nor did I visit the shop/armory. This strategy was a turn quicker than my previous one, but this did mean I wasn't able to feed the bosskill to Lowen, and no pegasi meant a level less for Hector as well. Total turncount up to chapter 14: 24 turns, 81.66 with handicap added. Stats: Unit LV HP STR SKI SPD LCK DEF RES Hector 7.82 25 11 7 8 6 12 1 Marcus 4.48 34 16 16 11 9 10 10 Lowen 6.69 27 7 7 9 4 9 0 Rebecca 4.38 20 6 6 8 5 3 1 Erk 2.24 18 5 7 8 4 3 4 Edited February 6, 2018 by athena_57 Improved turncount, changed stats Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amg Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 Wow my bids were really low compared to everyone else. My only mount I have to pay 20,000 for after 15 chapters. I hope the absence of a relative handicap keeps me ahead of this. Good luck everyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athena_57 Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 (edited) Chapter 15-2/26 turns Lowen waited at the top right door turn 1, killed the merc turn 2 PP and killed the mage turn 2 EP with a javelin. Rebecca, Hector and Erk needed 2 turns to kill all of the enemies in the south. Marcus baited the boss turn 1 and killed him turn 2 PP to prevent further reinforcements. I didn't get any chests (obviously) Chapter 16-4/30 turns Lowen went to the western village (which I didn't manage to get though). Rebecca and Erk baited some enemies and assisted Lowen later. Kent and Sain got to the southeast village. Wil distracted some enemies. Lyn went shopping. Marcus rushed towards the boss to kill him on turn 4 PP. Florina rescued Hector, dodged a ballista turn 2, dropped Hector turn 3, so he could seize on turn 4. Chapter 17-7/37 turns I'm pretty sure I'm 1 MOV short of 6-turning this, which sucks. Marcus rescued Hector and ran towards the boss, with Kent, Lowen and Florina following him and clearing the way. Erk was sort of left behind, Rebecca went southwest to get some exp. I got the Knight Crest, which will be given to Lowen. Chapter 17x-3/40 turns Basically, Florina flew towards Fargus in 3 turns, visiting the Canas village in the process. The others all got exp, Lowen and Canas in the north, the others in the south. Marcus managed to kill the boss and visit the devil axe+short bow village. Of note:Lowen reached level 10, I'm going to see whether promoting him now improves my ch 18 turncount or whether Ill give him 1 more chapter before promoting. Chapter 18-2/42 turns Marcus ran towards the boss to kill him on turn 2, whilst the others spread around to get some exp Chapter 19-4/46 turns Lowen and Rebecca killed some enemies in the northeast, Florina carried Marcus towards Uhai, dropped him on turn 3 for the turn 4 bosskill. The others killed the bow users so Florina was safe-ish. Promoted Canas. Chapter 19x-3/49 turns Aw, my last Marcus chapter... Turn 1 Florina and Marcus rescue-drop Erk forward, Kent rescues Hector, Rebecca moves into enemy range and Canas follows. Turn 2 Erk kills a knight, making Marus exactly able to reach the boss on turn 3 and put him down to 3 life due to a silver lance miss, allowing Florina, who was given Hector, and dropped him ahead on turn 2, to get the bosskill. Hector seized, others got some exp, Lowen promoted. Stats: Unit Lvl HP STR SKI SPD LCK DEF RES WPR Hector 11.67 29 12 8 10 7 14 1 B axes Marcus 11.05 39 20 20 12 10 10 12 A Sw/Ln/Ax Lowen 12/1.12 33 9 10 12 9 15 1 B Ln C Sw E Ax Rebecca 8.09 22 7 8 11 7 4 4 C Bows Erk 9.08 24 8 10 9 6 5 6 C Anima Florina 8.82 22 8 9 12 11 5 5 D Lances (Almost C) Kent 10.38 28 8 9 10 5 8 2 D Sw + D Ln Canas 10/1.10 26 12 10 12 7 7 11 B Dark (Almost A) E Staves Turncount up to chapter 19x: 49 turns, 106.66 with handicap, 93.30 with relative handicap Farewell Marcus! Good night, sweet prince, and flights of angels sing thee to thy rest! (Okay, maybe I abused him a little too much, let's see how my scrubs will fare the coming few chapters) Edited February 8, 2018 by athena_57 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudgeWargrave Posted February 8, 2018 Author Share Posted February 8, 2018 (edited) First 4 chapters down: Ch11 Another Journey, 6/6 turns Slightly modified from my first LTC to give Matthew more exp and support points, and picked Thunder affinity to hopefully help Hector and Bartre hit. Ch12 Birds of a Feather, 4/10 turns A real pain without Marcus. Bartre, Matthew, and Hector are just able to clear their respective areas, but there were two annoying troubles: the terrain in the north made it hard for Hector to hit, and some enemies retreat to forts when their health is low. I overcame the former by trial and error and the latter by blocking the forts with undrafted units--they are allowed to move, rescue, and drop each other after all--causing the enemies to dutifully suicide instead of running. Ch13 In Search of Truth, 7/17 turns Hector marches to the boss, taking a specific path so the archer doesn't block him. Bartre gets the torch, and Matthew recruits Guy for his Killing Edge. Marcus sells the Rapier and buys Hand Axes, and everyone else huddles away from the enemies. Ch13x The Peddler Merlinus, 7/24 turns My three combat units might be able to rout the map by T7EP, but certainly not T6EP, so I don't worry too much about it. Hector does kill the boss and Matthew reaches C Swords so he can use the Killing Edge. Village not saved. The lack of Marcus is making itself felt. At least the no prep menu chapters are over. Hector has gained 1 speed in 10 levels, while Matthew has gained 1 str in 5. Bartre hasn't gained any speed whatsoever. Hopefully I can rout Ch14 before the pirate reinforcements. Edited February 8, 2018 by JudgeWargrave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athena_57 Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 (edited) Chapter 20-5/54 turns Rebecca stayed south to get the brave bow and some exp, Canas healed a bit, the mounts carried Hector upwards for the bosskill+seize, Lyn was carried as well to recruit Legault on turn 5, who had stolen the guiding ring. Chapter 21-2/56 turns With a dance, Florina reached the elysian whip village on turn 2, with the other dance Lowen could drop Canas in the boss range on turn 2, for the turn 2 EP bosskill. The only other village I got was the restore village. Chapter 22-4/60 turns This was... awkward. With some crazy rescue-drop-dance strats I was able to attack the boss at close range with Florina and long range with Lowen on turn 3, but even that combined with the enemy phase didn't kill him... So eh, 4 turns it is. Isadora's angelic robe went to Florina. Heath was killed, Rath wasn't recruited. Promoted Florina at level 13 afterwards (she got the bosskill) Chapter 23-4/64 turns Florina did the most work here, flying west to kill one of the 2 subbosses, which was easy as she now had a sword. The others messed around a bit in the east, and most of them promoted. (Erk at 12, Rebecca at 10 and Kent at 14) I did not unlock 23x and didn't feel the need to visit it, so left it like this. I also didn't get any desert treasure besides the ocean seal Chapter 24-2/66 turns Baited Lloyd on turn 1, ganged up on him turn 2. None of my units were able to bait+kill him on turn 1 sadly. I obviously didn't bother with Wallace and left him unrecruited. Chapter 25-3/69 turns Florina went northeast for the bosskill on turn 2 and "seize" on turn 3. Lowen and Kent went northwest, Kent cleared the way, Lowen "seized" on turn 3. Canas, Erk and Ninian went for the southwest point. Rebecca shot some dudes from a ballista. Hector saw no combat at all. Chapter 26-11/80 turns Exp + staff rank training. Visited the Hammerne village with Florina. Merlinus promoted Stats: Unit Lv HP STR SKI SPD LCK DEF RES WPR Hector 16.97 33 14 13 14 9 15 1 A Axes (Marcus 11.05 39 20 20 12 10 10 12 A Sw/Ln/Ax) Lowen 12/5.16 37 13 10 13 10 16 3 B Ln C Sw E Ax Rebecca 10/4.51 29 12 13 16 11 8 9 B Bows Erk 12/3.43 30 11 11 14 6 8 11 B Anima E Staves Florina 13/8.12 45 17 13 18 16 11 12 A Lances E Swords [used 1 angelic robe] Kent 14/4.23 37 10 12 18 8 11 6 C Ln C Sw D Ax Canas 10/7.35 29 18 14 13 8 7 13 A Dark D Staves Ninian 3.64 16 0 0 13 11 6 6 - Turncount up to chapter 26: 80 turns, 137.66 with handicap, 124.30 with relative handicap Chapter 27 6/86 Florina flies towards the boss, clearing away most enemies in her path, Kent gets danced in the early turns, then rescues Hector and on turn 5 reaches Florina, gives her Hector so she can drop him 5 spaces from the throne. She and Kent take down the boss together, boss kill going to Florina once again, Hector seizes on turn 6. Rebecca got some exp in the southeast, Erk in the southwest, Lowen killed some people in the way and Canas worked on staff rank. I didn't get any treasure, nor did I recruit Harken/Karel. Chapter 28 6/92 Lowen, Kent and Ninian take the left route, rescue-drop-dancing their way forward, Lowen kills the mages in the south, Kent gets the boots chest. Canas follows them, clearing away stragglers and working on staff rank. On the right side, Florina charges at Ursula, then going to rescue Jaffar, bringing him to Nino. Hector, Erk and Rebecca walk towards Nino, killing some enemies in the process. Lowen and Florina need until turn 6 to pick off the stragglers. This leaves me 9 turns to use unlock twice and heal everyone with Canas, who is now a little bit past C Staves. I didn't get any other treasure. Chapter 28x Free/92 So uh, this is a lot of exp, Florina is a few kills away from lv 20, Hector reaches 20 and others are atound level 10. Canas gets danced every turn and spams barrier+mend, he reaches A Staves this chapter. I got the Recover and the speedwings. Seized on turn 20 after killing the boss with Florina. Turncount up to chapter 29x: 92 turns, 149.66 with handicap, 136.30 with relative handicap Edited February 8, 2018 by athena_57 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sturm Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 Ah, interesting teams have been decided this should be interesting to see how the dice have fallen as it were, I'm eager to see how this format pans out to be honest. I figure I'll give my two cents on everyone's bids and team composition etc. First thing I notice Athena is already at chapter 29x lol, at least the rest of us will have a goal to aim at. As for bids this is what stands out to me at a first read through: Oswin: I'm slightly surprised at the low bids for him I thought he'd be pretty decent in early rout maps though without Marcus (or Lowen) to carry him to where he needs to be maybe he won't be as good as I thought. Eliwood: yeah I figured this might happen I gave extra credit to mounted units who can carry promoted Hector I have a feeling I might end up with several Hector carriers but I really didn't want to end up without one so I probably over bid. Lowen damn I knew I should have gone higher . Rebecca: I'm not sure what past me was thinking when I went 3, she's got that perfect availability I guess? Bartre/Dorcas: I'm slightly surprised Athena rated Dorcas twice as good as Bartre though at the same time I know where he's coming from, yeah that is kind of an oxymoron now that I think about it. Priscilla: 12, she's not at all bad but I think someone's a Priscilla fan? Maybe I underestimate her. Florina: Athena laying down all the big money bids, I think I'm beginning to see who's going to have the best team. Wil: I'm going to end up with him aren't I? Raven: I'm surprised a bit at the low Raven bids, one of the best combat units in the game I thought would be worth more especially with the defend as rout rule, maybe Jerme's version of Pale Flower of Darkness is that off putting? Heath: Here's hoping 11 is enough to secure him. Rath: Yeah as I said in Eliwoods' bit I probably overbid for multiple Hector carrying mounts, not going to be upset if I get Heath and Rath both though. Hawkeye: Similar deal to what I said about Raven. Nino: I'm going to get Nino aren't I, Wil and Nino please no... Auction process: First of all it's probably obvious but I can't see where the value for Price is calculated from I thought average bids but I tried that and it didn't work, could you enlighten me, Wargrave? I thought Athena would have loads of units from glancing though the bids but I guess he had a higher spread of bids, me and Gentlewind look like we've gone for the highest on average, with amg and Wargrave going for the lowest. This little tug-of-war contest between me and Gentlewind with Lucius and Erk at the beginning is kind of amusing . I gave Kent and Sain to Athena? R.i.P... and I lost Marcus...and Dart... and Canas... and Raven...I guess I got rid of Wil although I'm not even sure that's good at this point. Ok let's see what the teams look like then 'crosses fingers': Wargraves' team: You have a pretty rough start and you have Wil AND Rebecca, ouch. Marcus is going to have to do some heavy lifting even starting with his bases in chapter 20, hopefully Dart will be nice for you and Afa's drops Nino for the big finale . You also have no one who can pick up promoted Hector so Serra will have to get that big magic stat for Warping, real men get Nino to be their Warper though. A relative Handicap of only 3.20 though could let you hold on? Athena: That team is pretty damn good! Several of what I would say are first round pick units in there, but it's not perfect, Kent and Sain are going to be fighting for experience along with Florina to some extent that's the biggest flaw I see and I guess on a lesser note Canas and Erk is kind of redundant for Warping unless you need multiple Staff users for certain Warp/Rescue strategies? 40.59 turns Handicap is big though it will be interesting to see how much work Marcus can put in early and then Florina/Kent/Sain along with Canas/Erk can do later. Moi: Hmm, immediately I see no mounts early this is not a good start, Eliwood, Oswin and Hector joined by Lucius. Then my fortune changes completely in one map, getting three mounted units (as I suspected I have 3/5 mounts who can carry Great Lord!Hector) and Hawkeye shortly after, wishing it had been Raven though. My Handicap isn't even low, I guess I'm going to have to pull out all the stops come Chapter 22 and on if I hope to win. Maybe I can pull of some Rescue-chains on Hector also I can carry Oswin so he won't be dead weight in the later maps with low move. Overall I'm not optimistic though. amg: Ow, that team does not look nice, I'm sorry to say. Five Sword locked units, well Lyn gets Bows eventually I guess but really it's mostly on Farina and she can't even lift Hector. You have no Handicap I guess but I think that team just doesn't have what it takes sadly, just comparing your team to Wargrave's, his while not a stellar team by any stretch, is noticeably better I feel for only a 3.20 handicap. Don't let me get your hopes down though! Gentlewind: Again a fairly good team and I think you have less problem with units vying for experience than Athena, maybe that could be the difference maker? The Handicaps do match up to how I would rate the teams from best to worst so I guess that's a good sign? Though just in ranking rather than value, I think particularly that Wargrave's team seems relatively good in comparison to his Handicap, we'll have to see. Oh, lol, guess I should have scrolled down more I guess there's more to it than I thought , oh well I'm not going to delete all I've written now. Looks like I got Raven in exchange for Hawkeye so I'm not going to complain. Ok Final team analysis I guess: Wargrave: So you traded Serra and Rebecca for Sain and Matthew, and your handicap went up by ~2 interesting, well Sain is obviously much better for you than Rebecca especially as you still have Wil. You now have two very solid mounts for later on and one of the best combat units in the game in Sain and Dart if he gets out of his bad start in a timely fashion. However, you lost Serra for Matthew so now Nino really is your only possible Warper, plus you also have no one who can carry Hector (Well I guess Body Ring!Bartre but is that really going to be useful, mabye?). I feel wierd saying this but I actually think Nino might end up being the make or break unit for your team if she can get the Warping done I think you might hold on but if she can't I think you may lose too many turns in the late game chapters, this should be interesting to see I think. Athena: So you traded Sain and Vaida for Lowen and Rebecca for a ~4 turn Handicap. I think trading Sain for Lowen is very nice for you personally though some might disagree with that, Vaida for Rebecca I don't know I mean Rebecca is bad but at least she exists. Your early is now super strong with both Lowen and Marcus I think you'll have to make up a lot of ground in that early Marcus stage though or others might be able to hold you off with your very high handicap. Moi: So it looks like my only change was Hawkeye for Raven which I'm pleased about I think that's worth the two turn handicap but my team is still going to struggle a lot early game slightly alleviated by Raven compared to before my late game is still going to have to be really good if I hope to stand a chance, I think though comparing my team to Athena's if I can avoid haemorrhaging enough turns early I'll be able to at least level later on, I think it might be tough to do though. amg: You traded Serra for Matthew, while not great that's an improvement, at least you have a unit with 1-2 range combat later on and a Warper other than Renault that's about all I can say though. Gentlewind: You traded Hawkeye and Lowen for Vaida and Raven. Well Raven for Hawkeye is not too big of a deal but Lowen for Vaida is a feelsbadman moment if ever I saw one but your Handicap did go down by a huge 10, more considering everyone else's went up in comparison but your team is clearly worse for it. Well Good Luck, Have Fun, it should be interesting to see how closely the turn counts converge as the game goes on. Inb4 Athena has finished by the time I submit this reply. Time to read through what people have done so far now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athena_57 Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 @Sturm Yeah, my team is pretty good, the only problem is that whilst for example Lowen/Kent is worth a lot of turns, he doesn't add much once I already have all these other mounts I'm afraid, which means he doesn't save many turns, whilst still costing me a lot. (Basically, the first 2 mounts are worth the high bid, the third and fourth not so much). But eh, at least I can do some fun rescue-drop strats :P On a side note, I do agree with you that Lowen>Sain, I think the availability outweighs the minor stat difference. On with the turncounts: [I forgot to mention in chapter 28, but the boots were given to Florina immediately, she's my best unit and the only one who can carry Hector, chapter 29x speedwings to Lowen, as he was the only one with trouble doubling] Chapter 29 6/98 I trigger all reinforcement zones on the first turn. Hector stays to recruit Vaida (for the spear) and spends each turn killing wyverns. Florina goes shopping, visits the warpstaffvillage, then kills the boss. Kent goes straight north to the top of the map. Lowen goes to the northwest to clear the way a bit, along with Erk. Canas gets danced a lot, so he reaches the boss to assist with the bosskill. Rebecca kills some leftovers. Chapter 30 4/102 I thought warpskipping would be ideal here, but I was 1 move short of a 3-turn, so finally I settled on a dance on Florina, who had carried Hector, who was then dropped on turn 3 for the turn 4 seize. Florina got C swords, just in time for the next chapter. Chapter 31 3/105 Florina gets warped towards Denning turn 1, where she kills him with a killing edge (might as well use that C sword :P). She only needs one crit (my Florina is great, she's getting the dracoshield as well this chapter). This stops the reinforcements, so all that's left to do is kill the remaining enemies. Hector goes east towards the myrmidons, Canas clears the small room, Kent goes east, Erk and Lowen clear the middle. Rebecca once again kills a few random dudes. The last remaining enemies are killed by the green units on turn 3 AP. They were all poisoned, so Erk gets to spend the remaining turns healing all the green units and building some staff rank. I don't waste chest keys on the other chests. Chapter 31x 5/110 Not much interesting. Buy a bunch of weapons, do some Arena. Might as well post my current stats: Unit Level HP STR SKI SPD LCK DEF RES WPR Hector 20/3.15 41 18 19 20 11 18 7 A Ax D Sw (Marcus 11.05 39 20 20 12 10 10 12 A Sw/Ln/Ax) Lowen 12/17.31 48 18 11 17 17 20 7 A Ln B Sw D Ax [speedwings] Rebecca 10/15.50 36 19 18 20 17 9 11 A Bows Erk 12/17.44 41 14 16 24 12 10 14 S Anima D Staves (Almost C) Florina 13/20.00 53 22 20 25 21 17 16 S Lances C Swords [used 1 angelic robe, 1 boots, 1 dracoshield] Kent 14/13.28 45 14 19 23 10 11 7 B Ln C Sw D Ax (All about to increase) Canas 10/19.55 37 26 19 21 11 9 17 S Dark A Staves Nils 8.24 20 0 1 18 16 8 10 - Comparing to the averages, my Hector is pretty SPD-blessed (+5), Lowen average, Rebecca a little STR-blessed (+3), Erk MAG and RES screwed (-3,-5) but SPD-blessed(+3). Florina a bit screwed across the board, but higher HP/STR/DEF, which is great as her other stats are pretty amazing anyway. Kent is STR-screwed (-3) but SPD-blessed (+4). Canas ranks a bit lower in the survivability stats, but has good speed (+3) and a ridiculously high mag (+7). So I'm pretty happy with that overall. Turncount up to chapter 31x: 110 turns, 167.66 with handicap, 154.30 with relative handicap Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sturm Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 @athena_57 Yeah Kent being somewhat redundant is something I hadn't thought about but at least he's a Paladin so he's useful in rout maps or at least he would be if he didn't have that 14 Strength, Marcus needs to get out of retirement and whip this boy into shape. It's somewhat of a balancing act about not going too low as to not get the units you want but not going too high as to have redundancy which is something I think I'm going to encounter with Rath and Eliwood when I already have Heath to carry Hector. So now I'm stuck with Scrubwood in the early game and he probably won't redeem himself late game to make up for it. Also good job you decided to focus Canas as the main Staffer and not Erk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athena_57 Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 15 minutes ago, Sturm said: @athena_57 Also good job you decided to focus Canas as the main Staffer and not Erk Yeah, I really like Canas, Erk just always disappoints me, and it really worked out, looking at that big magic difference between them. Also due to the fight over exp you mentioned, Lowen, Kent and Florina sucked up most of it, which was amplified by my massive Marcus abuse, Canas was closer to promotion when he joined, which was the deciding factor for me. Tl;dr Canas is dope Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amg Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 (edited) Chapter 11 6/6 turns Just a standard 6 turn clear. Chapter 12 5/11 turns Hector solo'd. ~15 hand axes used. Chapter 13 14/25 turns I only have Hector and Serra at this point. Some of my turns were spent on protecting undrafted units. Went left and down to get the C13x village. Chapter 13x 7/32 turns Just defended, nothing special. Chapter 14 10/42 turns Hector dealt with the left side, Guy killed right soldiers and pegasus reinforcements. Chapter 15 7/49 turns Hector defended the throne while Guy went south and killed some enemies including the boss. Chapter 16 8/57 turns Hector moved towards the throne. Guy went south protecting Merlinus and getting a village. Lyn got the other village near her. Chapter 17 12/69 turns Hectors reaches level 20 in this chapter. He walks to the throne while Lyn kills the archers and whatever Hector leaves behind. Guy clears the way for Matthew to get the Hero Crest. Then Guy fights some reinforcements and promotes at level 15. Chapter 17x 3/72 turns Guy has 6 move and walks up to Fargus. Lyn and Hector clear the enemies in the way. Chapter 18 3/75 turns Guy walks up to the boss and kills him. Lyn gets some EXP. Chapter 19 6/81 Lyn, Guy, and Serra go South towards Uhai. Hector defends Merlinus. Serra uses Torch on turn 6 so Guy can kill Uhai on the same turn. Chapter 19x 6/87 turns Guy clears the way for Hector. Lyn gets some EXP killing Pegasus Knights and some Mages. Chapter 20 6/93 turns Hector and Guy clear for Lyn to catch up to Legault. Lyn kills the boss on turn 5 after Hector Hand Axes some magic user. On turn 6, I recruit Legault, Legault gets the Member Card, and I seize with Hector. Chapter 21 3/96 turns Ninian dances Guy turn 1. Dance Lyn turn 2 so Lyn can kill an enemy blocking Guy. Oleg attacks Guy Turn 2 EP. Dance Legault to get the Elysian Whip village and Guy kills Oleg on turn 3. Chapter 22 5/101 turns Ninian dances Guy turn 1 and he goes straight towards the boss. Dance Hector turn 2 to kill an enemy. In the meanwhile, Eliwood visits Secret Shop, Legault gets the Brave Axe, and Lyn, Hector, Ninian, Serra fight off various enemies in the middle. Serra gets B staves. Guy kills Eubans on turn 5. Edited February 9, 2018 by amg Edited 13x and 15 to 7 turns Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudgeWargrave Posted February 9, 2018 Author Share Posted February 9, 2018 @Sturm The price calculation is a modified version of a second price auction, designed such that overbidding or underbidding the value you truly give the unit is strategically dominated in a game-theoretic sense by bidding your true value. The price is a weighted average of the price of the unit owner and the next lowest price, specifically [P1 + (n-1)P2]/n where n is the number of players. In the rare case that the lowest bid is assigned the unit due to team size balancing or promo class & chapter gap smoothing, generate the price as if the next higher bid had won (didn't happen in this case). The posts starting here give some details into how this was arrived upon. This is what was used in the previous FE7 auction. As for redundancy, the promo class and chapter gap balancing were a work in progress I added this time in an attempt to reduce that. The Rebecca<>Sain swap happened because I had two Orion's Bolt users and the swap did not conflict with the values Athena and I gave too much. The Matthew<>Serra trade was similarly because amg had two Fell Contract users. Although that conflicted with our bids more, it fixed an even bigger issue and thus managed to get over the arbitrary threshold. There isn't currently any handling for units that are simply of the same class but do not compete for promotional items, e.g. Pent and Erk, nor for various relevant categories like "able to carry promoted Hector". For now I just wanted to avoid the issues of delaying unit promotions and not having any earlygame units. The other trades happened simply because they matched the bids better; the initial assignment doesn't guarantee minimal dissatisfaction (within the parameters of equal team size), so brute force swaps are used, although in practice only a few seem to be needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudgeWargrave Posted February 9, 2018 Author Share Posted February 9, 2018 (edited) @amg Though the game marks them as 8 iirc, for these rules you can mark Ch13x and Ch15 as 7 turns. Did you try Ch13 in 9 or less turns with a 4 turn Marcus penalty? Although its a bit late to retry if not I suppose. I am impressed Hector was able to solo Ch12 in only 5 turns! Edited February 9, 2018 by JudgeWargrave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athena_57 Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 Chapter 32 - 3/113 Florina rescues Hector, gets "danced" but doesn't move yet. Canas warps her, then she flies onwards toward the boss. She drops Hector on turn 2 and attacks the boss down to 8 life. In the meantime, Kent and Sain rescue-drop Canas"and Nils forward on turn 1+2, then rescue-drop Rebecca together on turn 3. Rebecca gets "danced", then warped on top of a killer ballista, dealing the final 8 damage, killing Limstella. Hector seizes. I didn't get any other loot, so no Nosferatu. Erk got some exp from the knights in the west. Chapter 32x - 1/114 Canas hammernes the warp staff, gets danced and warps Florina in for the bosskill. I don't care about the treasure. Final: Part I - 3/117 Athos and Canas open some doors with the help of Nils and a tradebot. Lowen and Rebecca take down Uhai on turn 1, Lowen kills the other 2 in that room on turn 2+3. Rebecca takes down Jerme (needs 2 turns), Florina kills Ursula first, then the mages in the top left. Erk takes down Darin+general. Athos kills Lloyd and Linus. On turn 3, the final enemies go down, Athos walks to Canas (who had spent his turn already), warps him to Nils, who refreshes him, allowing Canas to walk back to Athos and warp him to Nergal, killing him with a luna crit on turn 3 EP. Kent was useless af, though he did open a door with a door key. Hector kills the axe-folk. Final: Part 2 - 1/118 Athos crits the dragon with Luna, Canas attacks with Luna and Hector finishes off with Armads. Final turncount: 188 turns, 232.30 with relative handicap added So, let's review the units: Spoiler Hector - Free Has to be free of course, good stats and 1-2 range, but mostly someone who needs to be carried to the throne. Lowen - Cost:14, Bid: 14 Pretty fucking good. Mounted, joins 2nd chapter, reasonable offense, though not amazing. Worth the cost in a vacuum, but loses some worth if you already have Marcus for the earlygame to carry Hector, and Kent and Florina later on. Rebecca - Cost: 1, Bid: 1 Rebecca has one major selling point, her Lowen support, her availability. Whilst lack of enemy phase sucks, infantry move is a shame and her stats are mediocre, especially in the beginning, she has been around for so long that I'm pretty sure she saved at least 2 turns. Almost worthless is seize chapters, but can get some treasure and is sort of useful in rout chapters. Not a good unit, but definitely worth a turn. Marcus - Cost: 9.2, Bid: 10 Amazing of course. Carries Hector to the throne and kills the boss in seize chapters, dominates about half the map in rout chapters, which was great in for example 13x. Definitely worth the cost imo. It hurts the exp of some other units, but they caught up very quickly in my experience. Merlinus - Free Has to be free as well imo, as he doesn't really save turns but is more of a "quality of life improvement" unit. Erk - Cost: 6.32, Bid: 8 Normally I'd say he's worth the cost, but in my case redundancy hit him the hardest. In the earlygame he was completely unneccesary with my overflow of powerful units, and in the lategame Canas was the preferable one for staffing, as Erk was about level 7 when Canas joined, so got a later promotion and was thus not trained to warp. He was a better combat unit then Rebecca though, I think he saved about 3/4 turns overall. Florina - Cost: 13.52, Bid: 16 I bid high on all mounts, but especially high on Florina, over 6 turns more than the average of your bids (though that number is inflated by amg's outlier). She was the only one on my team who could carry promoted Hector, I channeled a lot of exp into her which meant that during the second half of the game she fulfilled the role Marcus played in the earlier chapters, carrying Hector, killing the boss and wiping out hordes in rout chapters. She must have saved at least 3 turns in the desert chapter alone. My best unit by far, having great availability, mobility and combat. Not sure whether she's worth the 16 turns I bid, though I do think so, but she's definitely worth the 13.52 I paid. Kent - Cost: 8.22, Bid:8.3 Usually pretty good, but a bit redundant in my case. Mostly overshadowed by Lowen and Florina and STR-screwed pretty hard, but still useful in rout maps. Good unit though, and saved a bunch of turns by helping the rescue-dropping of Ninian/Nils and Canas. I don't think he saved the full 8 I paid, but it's not far off. Canas - cost: 5.4, Bid: 7 I promoted him ASAP to work on his staffrank, which turned out easier than I thought due to the staffspam I was able to do in the "defend"-chapters and 28x. He was a good combat unit, vastly overshadowing Erk, due to the earlier promotion, access to Nosferatu and high exp due to staffspam. He was also ridiculously MAG-blessed. A good warper, a good combat unit. Definitely worth the 5.4 turns I paid. Ninian/Nils - Free Amazing unit(s), obviously. Would usually have been left in the dust, but having Kent and Lowen allowed me to move the 3 of them very quickly as a group, most notably in chapter 28. Saved at least a turn every chapter, and therefore has to be free. Geitz/Wallace - Free Wallace is not only an afwul unit, but also costs turns to recruit, I'll pass. Not sure about Geitz (I've never played his chapter), but free seems fair, especially since it's needed for equal team sizes. I'd have bid 0 turns for them. Harken/Karel - Free Karel is mediocre, Harken is pretty good, but both not worth the turns they cost to recruit. I agree with them being free, for the same reason as the last (though maybe in some low handicap teams Harken is worth recruiting) Athos - Free Though what he was used for could've been replicated by Canas, having a second Canas is great. Some teams "need" him to complete the final chapter reasonably, so making him free is a good choice as well Thoughts on the rule set: Spoiler I like the rout-rule in the defend chapters, having people turtle and grind against reinforcements is too much against the spirit of draft. Vaida's chapter being a regular defend chapter seems fair, forcing people (especially the Vaida-drafter) to kill her for a good turncount would suck. I liked the rule that 23x wasn't forced as the condition is sort of hard to fulfill without waiting for the reinforcements, especially considering most of your units are pretty overleveled in a draft. I know I didn't bother to visit it and was happy about this choice. I'm not as sure about 28x, as the condition is easier, even if you don't have mounts, and the grindfest that was 28x felt ridiculous. I understand having the same rule for them both, and punishing the Jaffar drafter by making it cost turns sucks, but 20 turns felt like an awful lot, my Florina gained like 10 levels, and Canas went from C to A staves, though he was danced each turn. Could less turns maybe work as well? The other rules were all good. Thoughts on the draft process: Spoiler First of all, I love the idea, it was really fun to think of the bids and look at the comparisons between them. I like the 80%-20% rule for the cost, and the algorithm overall. I'm a bit split about the Marcus split I agree having free early Marcus makes the earlygame too similar and making full Marcus draftable is pretty op (though I guess the high cost makes it fair in this system). Whilst I like having him draftable in the earlygame, it's a bit weird to me that having early game Marcus makes late game Marcus more valuable and vice-versa. Not sure how to deal with this, I guess dividing him is the best option, but I'm not completely certain of this. Though the redundancy thing sucks sometimes, as lacking a warper makes your turncount higher, but lowers your handicap, whilst having two doesn't make your turncount better than having one, but does make your handicap higher, which is "unfair". I don't think it should be changed as it adds some nice strategy to the bidding. Do you bid on all of them fairly, risking getting multiples, or do you focus on a few, which leaves the risk of giving someone a very cheap unit if no-one else bids on it? TL;DR I'd keep the rules + algorithm as they are currently, it works, it seems fair and is fun So overall, I'm pretty happy with my bids and turncount, there were some minor problems with redundancy, but nothing too bad. There are a few chapters where I could perhaps have saved a turn, the ones I see now: Maybe I'm missing something in ch 14/19, the rain/forests could've messed up my calculations Ch 16 can theoretically be done in 3 turns by having Florina go directly towards the boss. This puts her in a spot with like 1% chance at survival though, which I didn't feel like rigging/part of trial and erroring, also, it would've felt like cheating. I didn't do this, but felt I should mention it. Ch 22 and 24 could maybe have been a turn quicker if I'd channeled even more exp into Lowen/Florina, as they together needed a couldn't kill the ch 22 boss with a double PP and single EP attack and none of my units could one-round Lloyd. Ch 29 Perhaps if I hadn't shopped with Florina, but with Vaida this would've been a turn quicker, though I doubt it, as killing Linus wasn't the only bottleneck, But the northern reinforcements were killed the final turn. Finally, I might have been too stingy with my chest keys, having the brave lance was possible and might have helped. I can't think of a spot where it would have saved a turn though so maybe it's fine. TL;DR: It was a blast, I really enjoyed it, looking forward to reading/watching your strategies and turncounts! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amg Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 You added 70 turns to your final turn count. @athena_57 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athena_57 Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 23 minutes ago, amg said: You added 70 turns to your final turn count. @athena_57 Whoops, thanks for mentioning it :P For some reason I can't edit my post, dunno why, I'll check whether it's possible to edit it later. @JudgeWargrave, when (if) you edit the opening post to show my turncount, watch out and put 118 turns (162.30 with relative handicap) there instead of what's in my post Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudgeWargrave Posted February 10, 2018 Author Share Posted February 10, 2018 Next four chapters up. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TFg0yEBOljM&index=5&list=PLtOZhNAJqDYnp2KXzJpHJokR6aRm4haw4 < to skip to Ch14, seems like when you embed a video playlist link it automatically starts from the first video even if the url has a video index. Ch14 False Friends, 6/30 turns Hector wipes out the cavalry and rabble in the west, Bartre hangs around Merlinus killing lance users, and Matt kills the pirates. I initially tried to use strategies where Marcus moved Erk around or blocked the south village in order to provoke the last brigand to attack, but it turned out it was simply possible to get Hector in his attack range despite the rain. All Marcus did was swap around Matthew's weapons once. Serra recruited Erk for his stuff. Ch15 Talons Alight, 4/34 turns Bartre does a surprisingly good job with the Hand Axe T1EP, 1HKOing enemies through sheer strength and making his lack of doubling irrelevant. Anti-Merlinus strats were employed to prevent the mercenary from attacking him on EP, making him attack Matthew and dying instead. Managed to pick up the Silver Axe by T7. Ch16 Noble Lady of Caelin, 8/42 turns Hector & Bartre slowly march over the mountains. Matthew gets the Red Gem village, Sain gets the Heavy Spear, and Wil kills 1.5 enemies while dodging the ballista. Luck favored Bartre's combat here, as not only did he get a natural 3% crit on a Myrmidon, but he managed to survive the mages just barely even with terrain bonuses, fort healing, and a vulnerary. Ch17 Whereabouts Unknown, 9/51 turns Last time this took me 10 turns, even though I had Sain, Kent, and Florina! They all got stuck in the bend of the hallway and were too weak to break through, but this time I just let Hector take point at the critical bottleneck, taking two brief trips in Sain's saddlebags to reach the throne quicker. Wil gets to kill 4 units this time and open the bottom chests. Priscilla comes along to neutralize Raven and get his and Lucius's items, as well as carry some items around. I forgot to remove the Red Gem from Matthew when recording, so I had to dump it on her to make room to steal a lockpick. All treasure and green units saved, most importantly both Crests. I've currently lost 14 turns compared to Athena. Even after we trade Marcus, my team is still quite a bit worse so I will continue to lose turns after 20. Marcus and Sain can match Lowen and Kent, but I have no one to do Florina and Canas's jobs. I don't think Nino will reach A staves. The enemies in 28 must be killed as fast as possible so I doubt I can promote her there and have to wait until partway through 28x. (Maybe I can sacrifice a turn or two in 28 for the sake of getting Nino to level 10 and regain those turns later?) She won't even get deployed on The Berserker since that will probably just be Nils and whichever Paladin I give the Boots to. (I thought about giving them to Hector of all people, but since there's only two seize maps at that point it probably isn't worth it. I wish there was an anti-Body Ring.) She has 11 and 5 turns to use staves in 31 and 31x, but no dancer to get double uses. She might get some extra time in 32 due to having to walk Hector to the gate, and theoretically can use staves within 32x. She would have to reach A rank by T5 of 32x for that to be worth it, and it would probably interfere with routing 29 and 31 to dedicate so many of her player phases, to say nothing of Ninian/Nils having to give her more turns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amg Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 (edited) Chapter 23 5/106 Pent and Hawkeye do their thing. Legault gets some EXP from the enemies outside the sand. The others slowly kill the 2 ranged enemies in the sand. Reinforcements delay this clear a bit but Pent kills the reinforcement on turn 5. Chapter 24 2/108 Ninian dances Guy and Guy crits Lloyd on turn 2. Chapter 25 9/117 I finally get a flier and another combat unit! Serra reaches A staves. Guy goes to the top left critting Pascal, Legault goes to the bottom left since Lyn is already level 20. Serra and Ninian stay in the middle forest as Lyn protect them. Serra spams staves. Hector goes to bottom right ready to recruit Farina. Farina goes to the top right. Chapter 26 11/128 Farming Chapter. Serra promotes. Farina gets EXP from the bottom and gets Hammerne. Serra and Guy kill the Wyverns. Farina gets to level 20 on turn 11. Chapter 27 10/138 Farina goes North, Legault gets the middle two chests. Serra goes for the boss. Guy, Lyn, and Hector go for bottom right. Karel gets recruited on turn 10 while I have 5 enemies left. I win on turn 10 enemy phase. Lyn promotes right after Chapter 28 10/148 Sword only users go left, others go right. Nino talks to Jaffar and I kill all enemies by turn 10. Chapter 28x Free/148 Ninian gets the boots. Farina trains her Sword rank to C. Serra gets S rank staves. Most exp goes to Lyn because she needs it the most. Lyn kills Sonia and Hector seizes on turn 19. All enemies besides Sonia are dead before then. Legault promotes right after. Chapter 29 10/158 Farina goes to the left village. Legault goes top right. Everyone else goes towards the boss. Legault and Serra kill the Wyverns. Farina ends up killing the boss and the rest kills the reinforcements near the Forts. Chapter 30 4/162 Hector Serra and Nils. Turn 1 all 3 move left, Nils dances Hector. Turn 2 Nils dances Hector, and Serra warps him. Turn 3 Hector kills Kaim on EP. Turn 4 Hector seizes. Chapter 31 3/165 Serra warps Legault to kill Denning. Farina hugs the wall with Spears. Guy goes downwards. The throne room is too far from any action. Turn 2. Lyn goes far left. Hector, Jaffar, and Karel go down the right stairs to kill Druids/Knights. Serra goes down her stairs. Legault clears his area in the bottom right. Farina and Guy go towards the bottom right inside their room. I clear all enemies by turn 3 EP. Chapter 31x 5/170 Everyone shops. Hector gets a couple turns in the Arena. Chapter 32 5/175 Farina goes to recruit Renault, everyone else goes towards the boss. By turn 5, Serra warps Hector and Jaffar to Limstella. Jaffar kills Limstella and Hector seizes. Chapter 32x 1/176 Serra hammernes Warp and then gets danced and warps Lyn to kill Kishuna. Final I 3/179 Karel goes bottom left, Farina goes middle right, Hector goes middle left, Serra warps Athos to top left and Guy to top right. Lyn kills Longbow guy. Jaffar and Legault move Nils out of Uhai's way. On the 2nd turn, Karel kills Jerme, Hector kills Brendan, Athos kills the 3 mages, Guy kills Lloyd and Linus, Serra kills Darin. Farina kills Uhai. Lyn kills the other Longbow dude. Renault kills the middle right General and Nergal is revealed. Nils dances Serra so she can get closer to Athos. Legault and Jaffar rescue chain dropped Nils a little bit further ahead. On turn 3, Nils Thor Ires Athos, and Serra warps him. Athos crits Luna and kills Nergal on turn 3. Final II 1/180 Lyn and Hector attack him. Athos Lunas twice thanks to Nils and Fire Dragon is defeated. Final turn count: 180 (no relative handicap) Turn Counts given at the end: Spoiler Other Pictures including Battle and Wins: Spoiler Level 10/20 Level 15/20 Level 20/10 Level 11 Level 20/20 Level --/20 Level --/20 Level --/16 Level --/20 Level 20/14 Level 20/11 Taken before the final chapter: It was fun playing this. I think I could've saved a few turns but not 13. Good game. Edited February 11, 2018 by amg Forgot Chapter 32 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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