blazingsword How could you not use Dart?

[Interdimensional Observer]

On 9/7/2017 at 7:51 PM, Slumber said:

True, Harken does exist, and he is a solid, pretty much RNG-proof unit, but his con really doesn't emphasize axe usage. Not saying he can't use axes, but he'll probably get more out of using swords, or swords and axes equally, which means it might be tight on if he ever gets an S axe rank.

Do Swords have good and common 1-2 range? No? Well Harken isn't touching one then outside of Berserkers, Warriors, SMs, Heroes, and Nomad Troopers who chose to attack him up close (these classes do exist, but aren't so incredibly common as to be a constant threat). Con you say is an issue? It's 11- thats a mere -1 AS from Hands and Silvers, no loss from Killers and Irons, and the rest of the weapon type is situational. Harken has no real axe issues, less than Raven even, and I have few problems putting Raven on a near total diet of axe use once promoted (I give him a sword just for WT control, but it lasts for many chapters at a time due to lack of use- unlike Raven's axe supply).

2 range is very common in FE7 by the time Harken shows up, and enemies are so weak that the power loss of using a Hand Axe is rather unimportant. I learned this on Hector Mode Normal and Hard alike. BBD, CoD and SoT are a 1-2 fests regardless, and Harken with his good 10 base Res (for a melee unit, and Pure Water/Barrier can buff it higher) can tank (with an okay chance at dodging) from both sides of the spectrum. Even if he encounters a swordie in all he cuts through, unless it's a Hero or SM, the cut won't be very deep, and with 20 base Skl and the 2RN hit formula on his side, he still has a good chance of hitting back.

[Lady Sansa]

all your deployment slots are already filled

[Tenzen12]

For me this "Ocean seal is too costly" argument translate simply as "I am too lazy pick free item". And mounts are pretty much overrated imho as chapter ends only when your lord (who is for most times limited to walking) take a throne anyway. I also don't like Fighters and irc Dart can walk on water which is pretty handy in Limstella chapter.

So yeah I quite like using Dart. Hector can't be everywhere and Sain is Rex Hasta guy for me.

Edited September 9, 2017 by Tenzen12

[Just call me AL]

19 minutes ago, Tenzen12 said:

For me this "Ocean seal is too costly" argument translate simply as "I am too lazy pick free item".

No. It means exactly as it sounds. Finding it is one thing. But every item you have counts towards the Funds rank. And you can get 25k just from selling it. Combine that 25k with the Silver Card, and you can see where promoting Dart is considered impractical.

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And mounts are pretty much overrated imho as chapter ends only when your lord (who is for most times limited to walking) take a throne anyway.

Mounts can make the amount of turns taken to do so smaller. Especially since the Rescue mechanic exists.

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I also don't like Fighters and irc Dart can walk on water which is pretty handy in Limstella chapter.

So can Hawkeye.

[Tenzen12]

Sure I don't have problem use Hawkey either though Dart is slightly better end game. Anyway selling one of kind item just to boost ranking? Seems to wasteful, you could as well sell body ring or Alpha drops. These stuff are meant to be used.

 

 

[ping]

I don't know about the "meant to" part, really. The Ocean Seal and the Fell Contract are worth 50000 gold each, so so unless the funds ranking is a total joke (which I don't think it is), that's a huge chunk of it that you'd be blowing on a decent-but-not-top-tier unit like Dart, not to mention Matthew and Legault who both don't have great combat stats as assassins.

I mean, if you don't play ranked (or LTC), I don't think it's a real gamechanger whether or not you keep, use or sell the promotional items. But honestly, the same thing is true about Dart - if you want to use him, that's fine, but it's not like he's the best unit in the game or something like that.

[Tenzen12]

Yes, he certainly isn't best unit in game or even close to that, but as far as potential Basiliskos wielder he is one of better. Hector has Armads so there is that and it's shame not use all these shiny legendary weapons Nergal nicely  gives you...

Well, it's true I don't use assassins a lot as there are better sword users, but I wouldn't miss Fell contract even for golden cow, for case Mathew happen to get some nice stats. It's waste letting it rot (or worse sell it!) in Merlinus cart...

Edited September 9, 2017 by Tenzen12

[Shadow Mir]

7 hours ago, Tenzen12 said:

For me this "Ocean seal is too costly" argument translate simply as "I am too lazy pick free item". And mounts are pretty much overrated imho as chapter ends only when your lord (who is for most times limited to walking) take a throne anyway. I also don't like Fighters and irc Dart can walk on water which is pretty handy in Limstella chapter.

So yeah I quite like using Dart. Hector can't be everywhere and Sain is Rex Hasta guy for me.

Except it means exactly what it means - and it doesn't help that the Ocean Seal is in an out-of-the-way location (at least in Eliwood mode). Nor does it that I could sell it for a hefty sum and use a lot of Killer and Silver weapons. And it ain't like water-walking is something unique to pirates and berserkers... Also, your second statement makes negative sense - it ain't like FE7 is a mono seize game.

47 minutes ago, Tenzen12 said:

Yes, he certainly isn't best unit in game or even close to that, but as far as potential Basiliskos wielder he is one of better. Hector has Armads so there is that and it's shame not use all these shiny legendary weapons Nergal nicely  gives you...

Well, it's true I don't use assassins a lot as there are better sword users, but I wouldn't miss Fell contract even for golden cow, for case Mathew happen to get some nice stats. It's waste letting it rot (or worse sell it!) in Merlinus cart...

Except those are only available for one chapter, and thus not very useful (especially Gespenst and Basilikos).

Edited September 9, 2017 by Levant Mir Celestia

[Tenzen12]

If you don't pick it because "it's out-of-the-way-location" you just admit my point of simply being lazy to pick it out. As for ultimate weapons, I don't see your point. we are talking about. You either use these weapon or just drop them as some kind of trash and later is wasteful.

[Shadow Mir]

2 minutes ago, Tenzen12 said:

If you don't pick it because "it's out-of-the-way-location" you just admit my point of simply being lazy to pick it out. As for ultimate weapons, I don't see your point. we are talking about. You either use these weapon or just drop them as some kind of trash and later is wasteful.

Or it's because there are more interesting items out there (read: everything but Eclipse). My point regarding the ultimate weapons is that they're only available for the final chapter (and Gespenst and Basilikos are especially bad off because the former's mega-heavy to the point of being unusable, and the most likely candidates for the latter are mediocre at best, not to mention only being likely to see use against mooks that you could wreck with iron).

[Tenzen12]

There is nothing wrong wreck final chapter mooks with legendary weapon, it's not like there another opportunity anyway. Why would you limit yourself using some random trash weapons instead? And while Dart or Hawkey aren't best units ever, having +15% crit rate is pretty nice thing to have and Dart can double pretty easily even wielding it.

He is by no means bad unit. 

[Just call me AL]

7 hours ago, Tenzen12 said:

Sure I don't have problem use Hawkey either though Dart is slightly better end game. Anyway selling one of kind item just to boost ranking? Seems to wasteful, you could as well sell body ring or Alpha drops. These stuff are meant to be used.

So's the Ocean Seal. And you're not really boosting your Funds rank by selling it. You're boosting your Funds rank by letting it collect dust. By selling it, you're opening the opportunity for more silvers and killers bought, or Farina recruited. Especially when combined with Silver Card use in the case of the former two.

Also, the Afa's Drops can't be sold.

11 minutes ago, Tenzen12 said:

There is nothing wrong wreck final chapter mooks with legendary weapon, it's not like there another opportunity anyway. Why would you limit yourself using some random trash weapons instead?

Because most enemies in the final chapter are actually pretty easy, and can be dealt with however the player sees fit. And the so-called "ultimates" cost a lot of money too. So, again, if you're ranking, you're better off not using them unless if they're Aureola or a Prf.

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And while Dart or Hawkey aren't best units ever, having +15% crit rate is pretty nice thing to have

But it's also unnecessary to have. Considering the quality of FE7 enemies in general.

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He is by no means bad unit. 

But he's by no means a good unit either. Especially considering his Spd base and Skl growth.

Edited September 10, 2017 by Just call me AL

[Tenzen12]

Seriously why you even playing when you just ignore all that is fun about it? And why would you even consider recruiting Farina given she is not awesomeness personified and you need actually make some effort to get her? Or why recruit and use Renault given he is actually terrible unit? Sure it's fine getting good ranking runs occasionally. But actually getting maximum of game content is more than just equal to that.

 

Edited September 10, 2017 by Tenzen12

[Shadow Mir]

55 minutes ago, Tenzen12 said:

There is nothing wrong wreck final chapter mooks with legendary weapon, it's not like there another opportunity anyway. Why would you limit yourself using some random trash weapons instead? And while Dart or Hawkey aren't best units ever, having +15% crit rate is pretty nice thing to have and Dart can double pretty easily even wielding it.

He is by no means bad unit. 

Because kill is just as good as overkill? Also, given the (lack of) quality of FE7 enemies in general, crits generally do little more than occasionally save a weapon use or spare me from worrying about a counter.

True, he's not bad, but he isn't what I'd consider good either between his iffy bases, his Con (at least as a Pirate), and his skill growth.

[Just call me AL]

48 minutes ago, Tenzen12 said:

Seriously why you even playing when you just ignore all that is fun about it?

Implying that I am ignoring everything fun about the game.

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And why would you even consider recruiting Farina given she is not awesomeness personified and you need actually make some effort to get her?

Because, though she is pricey, she is a solid unit. Not to mention, she's a flier, which is always great to have due to being among the best classes in the game.

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Or why recruit and use Renault given he is actually terrible unit?

Same could be said about Nino. Or Wallace, or Karla.

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Sure it's fine getting good ranking runs occasionally. But actually getting maximum of game content is more than just equal to that.

Not really. Since you can't get every piece of game content in a single playthrough.

[Florete]

Gotta love how no one cares about ranks until it's relevant to their argument.

[Interdimensional Observer]

11 minutes ago, Florete said:

Gotta love how no one cares about ranks until it's relevant to their argument.

Ranks exist, its a playstyle like any other, you gotta consider it, even if you don't do it yourself. I've actually done semi-ranked, as in "everything counts but EXP" sometimes. EXP I left out because that's the hardest rank to get by far, followed by Funds and Tactics (Combat and Survivability are cake).

And on the topic of ranks, you'll be using Dart if you're playing for them all. You have to- EXP is hard to satisfy, and you can't just use a handful of units- you have to swap in them all or close to it. You won't promote Dart, but you will use him in all likelihood. Why, I don't think you're promoting very many on ranked runs b/c Funds, so he's not any different from most. This said, Farina I've heard is good for EXP, since she has good bases for her rather low level, making it easy to level her.

 

2 hours ago, Tenzen12 said:

Or why recruit and use Renault given he is actually terrible unit?

Just a little nitpick- Renault comes with Fortify- that alone is worth recruiting him for. And on the topic of having fun, have you seen his awesome supports? Thats another reason to recruit him.

[Florete]

1 minute ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Ranks exist, its a playstyle like any other, you gotta consider it, even if you don't do it yourself. I've actually done semi-ranked, as in "everything counts but EXP" sometimes. EXP I left out because that's the hardest rank to get by far, followed by Funds and Tactics (Combat and Survivability are cake).

And on the topic of ranks, you'll be using Dart if you're playing for them all. You have to- EXP is hard to satisfy, and you can't just use a handful of units- you have to swap in them all or close to it. You won't promote Dart, but you will use him in all likelihood. Why, I don't think you're promoting very many on ranked runs b/c Funds, so he's not any different from most. This said, Farina I've heard is good for EXP, since she has good bases for her rather low level, making it easy to level her.

Oh, I do it. I've S ranked every mode in the game and typically prefer discussing ranked over other methods. I logged my EHM S rank run on these forums. But I am the different one; most people don't play or care for ranks. Unless, of course, it supports their side of an argument.

[Tenzen12]

2 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Ranks exist, its a playstyle like any other, you gotta consider it, even if you don't do it yourself. I've actually done semi-ranked, as in "everything counts but EXP" sometimes. EXP I left out because that's the hardest rank to get by far, followed by Funds and Tactics (Combat and Survivability are cake).

And on the topic of ranks, you'll be using Dart if you're playing for them all. You have to- EXP is hard to satisfy, and you can't just use a handful of units- you have to swap in them all or close to it. You won't promote Dart, but you will use him in all likelihood. Why, I don't think you're promoting very many on ranked runs b/c Funds, so he's not any different from most. This said, Farina I've heard is good for EXP, since she has good bases for her rather low level, making it easy to level her.

 

Just a little nitpick- Renault comes with Fortify- that alone is worth recruiting him for. And on the topic of having fun, have you seen his awesome supports? Thats another reason to recruit him.

You get it! Yes Renault has awesome supports! Of course getting them obviously hurt ranking due it's nature. But having fun and getting game content > ranking. Honestly I did ranking run once or twice just to see how well I do, but even than I wouldn't buy bunch of items from secret shop and than let them collect just to inflate my funds ranking. That hardly tells anything about tactician skill...

Edited September 10, 2017 by Tenzen12

[ping]

7 hours ago, Tenzen12 said:

Seriously why you even playing when you just ignore all that is fun about it? And why would you even consider recruiting Farina given she is not awesomeness personified and you need actually make some effort to get her? Or why recruit and use Renault given he is actually terrible unit? Sure it's fine getting good ranking runs occasionally. But actually getting maximum of game content is more than just equal to that.

It's really presumptuous to assume that you know the way to have fun with a Fire Emblem game. Personally, I always reset when someone dies, others prefer to play iron man. Some like the challenge that the hardest game modes present, others don't like that this often makes low-tier units very hard and frustrating to use. When I started to play the GBA games, I would always try to plan my team so that I would fill up as much of the support log as possible, now I stopped to care about that and just read up supports on serenesforest.

And those are all equally viable playstyles. Saying that using or promoting a specific character is absolutely crucial for enjoying a FE game is honestly a bit silly.

[Koumal8]

Oh, look, another pointless argument between FE players who can't/don't want to take into account the different playstyle of the other side! Never seen one of those! And one of them even goes as far as to say his playstyle is the most fun of the two!

Anyway, about Dart, he's probably good enough in casual play though he faces string competition as far as axe-users go (Geitz, Hawkeye, all the Paladins, Harken and Raven too), I highly doubt he's of much use in LTC (but feel free to correct me, I don't know much about FE7 LTC, all I know is that he's an unpromoted footie with nothing outstanding about his bases in a game full of decent-to-good cavs+fliers) and in Ranked he's never gonna reach promotion for the reasons previously stated, though he's good to boost the experience rank.

[Tenzen12]

You are right on all accounts (maybe with exception you approach to support system), everyone has they own play style, regardless reducing game on rating only can hardly be even considered style in first place. After all, you can't get more than max stars. Reaching it once is definitely something is worthy  doing, but repeatedly? It basically means not using any mechanics meant for replay value.

[KKAfterbrun]

I don't mind using Dart if I haven't bothered to work on Bartre, Dorcus, or plan on getting Geitz (thought you need him to recruit Geitz) or using Hawkeye. His stats are meh and I've yet to have good Dart in any of my own playthroughs.

For me, I rather work on Bartre then Dart, he's enough work as it is.

 

I also take note that besides the OS in Living Legend and the Secret Shop in Limstella's map, most player forget that on Linus' Four Fang Offensive map, it's Secret Shops sells it as well, unlike Loyd's map. The irony is that most would rather get Loyd out of the way and deal with Linus.

[Cornguy]

I like using him on occasion. I'm not a ranker, so it kinda bums me out to not use his promotion item. His supports are pretty funny too. I will say I've had Dart wind up with 12 skill at max level. More than once.

I really wish he got to keep those hhm bonuses he has on the gaiden chapter. Would also be nice, and reasonable to the story to have him join on the ship, rather than the dread isle. 

[Princess Lilly]

Dorcas is a better meme though and character