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What to do about Amelia?


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Quick update on Amelia:

 

She has been very helpful as a Knight. I haven't had the chance to play the game as much, but when getting the chance to run a chapter she proves to be a good force for the party along with Franz. She's replaced Gilliam, and if I can promote her to General (assuming that's the right class name for promoted Knights in Sacred Stones) I likely will.

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@The Unlikely Knight: She can still either go General or Great Knight, the same way you could choose between Cav and Knight at her first promotion. General has slightly higher promotional gains, Great Knight has one more movement point (which makes it as fast as regular promoted infantry units) and a horse, so it can move after doing a non-attack action. Unfortunately, GK also has a weakness to both anti-armor and anti-horse weapons, although iirc they aren't super common anyway.

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7 hours ago, ping said:

@The Unlikely Knight: She can still either go General or Great Knight, the same way you could choose between Cav and Knight at her first promotion. General has slightly higher promotional gains, Great Knight has one more movement point (which makes it as fast as regular promoted infantry units) and a horse, so it can move after doing a non-attack action. Unfortunately, GK also has a weakness to both anti-armor and anti-horse weapons, although iirc they aren't super common anyway.

I was referring to the equivalent upgrade item for Knights above since I don't have it. I didn't doubt I could change her class again.

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On 9/11/2017 at 6:26 PM, The Unlikely Knight said:

Quick update on Amelia:

 

She has been very helpful as a Knight. I haven't had the chance to play the game as much, but when getting the chance to run a chapter she proves to be a good force for the party along with Franz. She's replaced Gilliam, and if I can promote her to General (assuming that's the right class name for promoted Knights in Sacred Stones) I likely will.

General is the class name for promoted knights in all games but Gaiden/Echoes, I'm kinda surprised the localizers didn't change the class name to General myself. Note, another class of the name Baron appeared in the SNES games.

Oh and in the Japanese version of Radiant Dawn, General is spelled DUX in english. Dux is roman for General.

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21 hours ago, Sweet_Basil said:

I usually make her a paladin.
 

:dry:

Yeah, I can admit My joke was pretty dry. Anyways, in my playthroughs I usually make her into a General as some kind of joke, she's not awful if you're willing to train her up.

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10 hours ago, Mega Koopa X said:

Yeah, I can admit My joke was pretty dry. Anyways, in my playthroughs I usually make her into a General as some kind of joke, she's not awful if you're willing to train her up.

The same could be said for literally every other unit in the game.

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I'm going to tell you straight up, Amelia is the worst unit in the game. Yes, at level 20, she will have max stats, but so does everyone else. Ewan is vastly superior, can actually dodge (Ewan is a dodge tank if used correctly), and he isn't Wendy 2.0. She isn't gonna be doing anything till she is a general as she is so weak, she is ultimately going to be a sacrifice or benched. Sacking her off is the best way to go, she is sort of a weak meat shield for a mage. Getting her is also annoying, but like she can't a hit and charges like a complete idiot, which is extremely fitting. Back to the unit part, she is best as a general, being able to take one hit is nice compared to her as a paladin, which is basically pointless. If you want to use a trainee, for the love of Gogmazios, use Ross or Ewan. 

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40 minutes ago, Kazuya said:

I'm going to tell you straight up, Amelia is the worst unit in the game. Yes, at level 20, she will have max stats, but so does everyone else. Ewan is vastly superior, can actually dodge (Ewan is a dodge tank if used correctly), and he isn't Wendy 2.0. She isn't gonna be doing anything till she is a general as she is so weak, she is ultimately going to be a sacrifice or benched. Sacking her off is the best way to go, she is sort of a weak meat shield for a mage. Getting her is also annoying, but like she can't a hit and charges like a complete idiot, which is extremely fitting. Back to the unit part, she is best as a general, being able to take one hit is nice compared to her as a paladin, which is basically pointless. If you want to use a trainee, for the love of Gogmazios, use Ross or Ewan. 

You do realize that this is Sacred Stones, which most people put at the bottom of the difficulty scale, we're talking about? And I'm not seeing how Ewan can dodge but Amelia can't, since she has the same high Luck that the other trainee units have, and his speed base is all of one point better than hers, and she edges him out in speed growth. Also, FYI, she stays put in Eirika route. And I disagree on her being best as a general since that means two tiers of 4-move lancelock, which is VERY unappealing since she won't turn out nearly good enough to justify the trouble... and that's ignoring that Paladin is just a better class than General.

Edited by Levant Mir Celestia
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39 minutes ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

and that's ignoring that Paladin is just a better class than General.

If it was FE7 Paladin and General, I would definitely agree with that statement, but instead I tentatively agree because of fun factor. I've used her as both classes, and although Paladin is useful with 8 movement, General is fun to use in FE8 because WT coverage, and that shrimpy little Amelia can wear 100 pounds of armor and wield a sword as big as she is.

Edited by Hylian Air Force
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1 hour ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

You do realize that this is Sacred Stones, which most people put at the bottom of the difficulty scale, we're talking about? And I'm not seeing how Ewan can dodge but Amelia can't, since she has the same high Luck that the other trainee units have, and his speed base is all of one point better than hers, and she edges him out in speed growth. Also, FYI, she stays put in Eirika route. And I disagree on her being best as a general since that means two tiers of 4-move lancelock, which is VERY unappealing since she won't turn out nearly good enough to justify the trouble... and that's ignoring that Paladin is just a better class than General.

It's like you don't know that Paladins aren't as good as they were in 6. She is better with a lance as is, plus hand axes. Ewan also stays put, and he can kill things compared to her. She has better speed sure, but that doesn't mean her defense justifies being used. Same can be argued about Ewan, but he is meant for the back, she isn't. 

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1 hour ago, Hylian Air Force said:

If it was FE7 Paladin and General, I would definitely agree with that statement, but instead I tentatively agree because of fun factor. I've used her as both classes, and although Paladin is useful with 8 movement, General is fun to use in FE8 because WT coverage, and that shrimpy little Amelia can wear 100 pounds of armor and wield a sword as big as she is.

Well, General might be fun for novelty factor, but novelty only means so much when I have to go through training from hell to access said novelty (I dunno about you, but I'm not willing to stomach another tier of being a lance-locked unit with only 4 move).

53 minutes ago, Kazuya said:

It's like you don't know that Paladins aren't as good as they were in 6. She is better with a lance as is, plus hand axes. Ewan also stays put, and he can kill things compared to her. She has better speed sure, but that doesn't mean her defense justifies being used. Same can be argued about Ewan, but he is meant for the back, she isn't. 

Oh, I do know that Paladin isn't as good as it was in Elibe. But even with WTC, General is still inferior. I don't see much need for hand axes when Amelia already has access to javelins no matter what. The lack of defense chapters in SS doesn't help matters. 

Edited by Levant Mir Celestia
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10 minutes ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

Well, General might be fun for novelty factor, but novelty only means so much when I have to go through training from hell to access said novelty (I dunno about you, but I'm not willing to stomach another tier of being a lance-locked unit with only 4 move).

Oh, I do know that Paladin isn't as good as it was in Elibe. But even with WTC, General is still inferior. I don't see much need for hand axes when Amelia already has access to javelins no matter what. The lack of defense chapters in SS doesn't help matters. 

This goes back to the Mage Knight or Sage argument. Better magic caps, or move more. Betters caps or more Con. Will sage is always better, some still like the inferior trashy version on a horse. Generals are better than their counterpart (GK), and in this case is better than Paladin. I know that many would rather have a general than another dang rider in 8, if you want a rider in 8, you are already using one, so another one is just a waste especially when said one can't even hold up compared to Franz, Kyle, and so on. 

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24 minutes ago, Kazuya said:

inferior trashy version on a horse.

Umm...

According to the data on SF's main side, the Mage Knight promotion gives one point more magic and one point less defense than Sage. Sure, MK caps magic at 25, but Sage!Lute will only reach that at level 20/10, which is basically endgame unless you're heavily grinding. And even then, the higher Con as a MK allows Lute to wield Thunder magic without speed penalty (and the heavier tomes with higher attack speed, too, of course) to negate that advantage. Sure, inferior trashy version.

Seriously, caps are not a factor in Sacred Stones before the postgame. Hitting caps before then is the exception, not the rule, so the difference between promotions in combat terms is almost exclusively based on promotional gains and weapon ranks. And really, the differences aren't that impactful. It's not like FE8 is a game in which you have to scrape the barrel for every point of damage in combat, so it's not absurd to value much higher movement and moving after an non-attack action over two points of strength and four points of defence, even moreso when you factor in the time as a knight/cavalier.

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1 hour ago, Kazuya said:

This goes back to the Mage Knight or Sage argument. Better magic caps, or move more. Betters caps or more Con. Will sage is always better, some still like the inferior trashy version on a horse. Generals are better than their counterpart (GK), and in this case is better than Paladin. I know that many would rather have a general than another dang rider in 8, if you want a rider in 8, you are already using one, so another one is just a waste especially when said one can't even hold up compared to Franz, Kyle, and so on. 

Bold: If I were you, I'd be careful about saying stuff like this, lest you make a fool out of yourself.

Everything else: So caps are all you look at? Not the other miscellaneous perks that a class might offer? That's pretty simple minded, especially since you most likely won't be seeing much, if any, capped stats before the postgame. Anyway, I'd rather not have to work harder to get Amelia up to speed, especially when the extra effort isn't even adequately compensated. So I don't care that Amelia as a Paladin might not measure up to Franz, Kyle, or what have you - I care that Paladin's actually a good class, and that General is still inferior, and NWI.

Edited by Levant Mir Celestia
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8 hours ago, Kazuya said:

This goes back to the Mage Knight or Sage argument. Better magic caps, or move more. Betters caps or more Con. Will sage is always better, some still like the inferior trashy version on a horse. Generals are better than their counterpart (GK), and in this case is better than Paladin. I know that many would rather have a general than another dang rider in 8, if you want a rider in 8, you are already using one, so another one is just a waste especially when said one can't even hold up compared to Franz, Kyle, and so on. 

She can't even hold up compared to Gilliam or Duessel, which shouldn't come as a surprise. And besides, you're only getting 2 def total on top of complete WTC as a General. This may seem fine on paper. In practice? Amelia's lancelock as an Armor Knight puts her at risk from axe users. And if gets caught by one as an Armor Knight, she's SoL because she can't get away from one without being rescued. It doesn't help that Armor Knight and General is a consistently bad class in the series either. But if she's a Cavalier, she doesn't have that same worry because not only can she get away due to higher movement, but she also has E Swords, giving her WTA against those same axe users. And it's not like axes are a must have weapon. She could very much live without them like Franz, Kyle, and Forde all can.

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • 2 weeks later...

tfw i like gilliam :'(

I used to make Amelia a general for the gimmick of it, but paladin suits her better. FE8 is ez mode though, so just go with what you like or need more! (Which you already picked armor soooo).

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  • 2 weeks later...

Of all of the trainee/recruits, Amelia is just the worst. I have never trained her up and thought: Wow, this was a positive use of my time. And in a no-grind run, AKA the only way to play sacred stones with any hint of a real challenge, she's just unusuable. Franz is the best Cavalier you will need come endgame, Generals are useless because of movement, Great Knights just don't offer enough for me either -- though if you need that weapon triangle control, you should have Duessel. You don't need any other GK after Duessel. Paladins are just more useful. 

As for the Sage vs Mage Knight argument -- Do you need staff utility? If yes (meaning your aren't using Artur/Moulder/Sayleh/Natasha or they died) then go Sage. In every other situation, Mage Knight is just more useful because of the Con boost and mobility. In Sacred Stones caps really don't mean shit, you won't reach them until the Creature Campaign, and IMO the endgame is a novelty with no real driving reason to complete. At least SoV's endgame had some form of lore/plot around Totally-Not-Grima. They tried.

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  • 3 weeks later...

I get that some people prefer immediate usability, but you know what? I just think Amelia's cute. And I love her enough to give her the time to prove herself. And I support her with Duessel so she can reunite with her mother because I'm cry

I've always made her a Great Knight, for the same reason going into Knight, but I'm starting to think >Cav>Paladin might actually be more viable just because movement does tend to be a small problem at times for GK Am

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