New characters leaked

[Fireball260]

16 minutes ago, The DanMan said:

Watch us all get thrown for a loop and them go "Kyeduh" for that faithful Latin pronunciation (Caelum is Latin for sky/heaven).

They just never call her by name to keep the mystery going 

[Tolvir]

50 minutes ago, Nanima said:

As far as the leak being true goes (which I am still not convinced of), this would be KTs dumbest move. Sure, crushing everyones hopes and dreams with the "too many swords" argument of limiting the cast to three base games was clumsily done, but at least it came early enough in the marketing cycle so people couldn't get too hyped for their favourite Lord (which they still did admittedly). After all this time, revealing themselves as liars and putting in 2 Lords outside of Fates/Awakening/SD anyway would be.. I don't want to be on any FE forum when the news hit. People would be crying foul over Lyn and Celica getting in over Ike/Roy/Hector etc.. "Why them and not others?" would be their rallying cry, and KT would have lost all credibility with no way of saving face. So yeah, really hoping this isn't real even though I have nothing against Lyn and would like playing as Celica.

Agreed, this leak if true might hurt the game more. It really throws their ideas for a loop. First off, why not Hector instead? Just as popular as Lyn, but an Axe user. Why Celica? At all? SoV was announced after Warriors was already more than halfway done. On top of that, it is just an odd choice to throw in Celica randomly. Why not Ike? Ephraim? Hell, Sigurd? Why Celica of all people?

If this is the roster, it leaves way too many questions and seems like a total clusterfuck from Hell. The 4chan one seems a little more reasonable, but even then the characters themselves seem off. No armors, no infantry lancers. And the DLC seems off too. While I can see DLC from other games, it seems a little too optimistic? They talked about sequels, so I really cant see them tapping too much into the other game's character pools and spreading themselves too thin. The only one I can see them really getting into is SoV, only because it was a recent release, and a remake. Perfect material for DLC, maybe not so much for being a main focus of a game that may release 4 years from now.

[Florete]

29 minutes ago, Nanima said:

Before this leak, almost no one was really questioning that the main game would be limited to SD/Awakening/Fates, with most hoping for an expansion through dlc. KT now revealing outsiders after all would reignite many people's fury over their favourite being excluded, and KT retreating to a "Well, technically we never said only" wordgame wouldn't help their case.

I don't disagree with anything you've said here, but it wouldn't be lying on their part. It would be the fans' faults for assuming, and there also have still occasionally been people hoping for the likes of Ike or Roy in the base game because deep down we knew that the chances for them weren't completely shot.

And honestly, I don't care about this causing whining "because Ike/Hector/Roy/Alm isn't in!" No matter who gets revealed there will be whining. It's how these things work.

Just now, Tolvir said:

SoV was announced after Warriors was already more than halfway done.

Why the hell do people keep saying this? Do you not realize that the dev team would have known of Echoes existence long before it was announced to the general public?

[Tolvir]

7 minutes ago, Florete said:

I don't disagree with anything you've said here, but it wouldn't be lying on their part. It would be the fans' faults for assuming, and there also have still occasionally been people hoping for the likes of Ike or Roy in the base game because deep down we knew that the chances for them weren't completely shot.

And honestly, I don't care about this causing whining "because Ike/Hector/Roy/Alm isn't in!" No matter who gets revealed there will be whining. It's how these things work.

Why the hell do people keep saying this? Do you not realize that the dev team would have known of Echoes existence long before it was announced to the general public?

Why if it wasnt going to be a main title? What would be the point if their main 3 picks were Awakening, Shadow Dragon, and Fates? What would be the point of throwing, randomly, a SoV character in. And on top of it, just Celica? I could maybe understand it if there was Alm as well, but considering its just Celica its a little weird. I could understand this if it was literally any other game's lord. Sigurd? FE4 does have more of a following in Japan. Roy? Smash popularity would be a good reason. Ike? Again, Smash. But Celica? Just Celica, in a game where she serves as a dual protagonist? It makes no sense at all. From either a game considered the black sheep of Fire Emblem, or a remake that wasnt exactly certain to sell well.

See my point? It is a very odd choice.

Edited September 12, 2017 by Tolvir

[FiyaaEmburem]

4 minutes ago, Tolvir said:

Why if it wasnt going to be a main title? What would be the point if their main 3 picks were Awakening, Shadow Dragon, and Fates? What would be the point of throwing, randomly, a SoV character in. And on top of it, just Celica? I could maybe understand it if there was Alm as well, but considering its just Celica its a little weird. I could understand this if it was literally any other game's lord. Sigurd? Little more understandable. Roy? Smash popularity would be a good reason. Ike? Again, Smash. But Celica? Just Celica, in a game where she serves as a dual protagonist? It makes no sense at all. From either a game considered the black sheep of Fire Emblem, or a remake that wasnt exactly certain to sell well.

See my point? It is a very odd choice.

Maybe Alm is unlockable and not in the box ? (like Smash Bros. maybe it will have secret unlockables)

Edited September 12, 2017 by FiyaaEmburem

[Florete]

Just now, Tolvir said:

Why if it wasnt going to be a main title? What would be the point if their main 3 picks were Awakening, Shadow Dragon, and Fates? What would be the point of throwing, randomly, a SoV character in. And on top of it, just Celica? I could maybe understand it if there was Alm as well, but considering its just Celica its a little weird. I could understand this if it was literally any other game's lord. Sigurd? Little more understandable. Roy? Smash popularity would be a good reason. Ike? Again, Smash. But Celica? Just Celica, in a game where she serves as a dual protagonist? It makes no sense at all.

I don't know. Maybe they only wanted to include one and they thought Celica was more interesting (which I would completely agree with). But what does it matter? If she's in she's in and whatever reasoning we can come up with won't change that.

Allow me to reiterate that I do not think this leak is real. I just think a lot of the reasons people are pulling out are grasping at straws and/or inaccurate.

[YotsuMaboroshi]

1 minute ago, Florete said:

Why the hell do people keep saying this? Do you not realize that the dev team would have known of Echoes existence long before it was announced to the general public?

Maybe.  The dev team belongs to KT, not Nintendo, while Echoes was developed by IS, which is one of Nintendo's studios.  IS could have shared details of Echoes with the FEW dev team, but there's no reason to assume that they would share an early development project with a third party studio.  And before anyone brings up Roy and Smash, both studios in that case were first party under Nintendo, which is not the same as a third party being informed of something being developed in-house.  It doesn't preclude the possibility, but dev interviews have said Fates was chosen because it was the most recent, which sort of implies they didn't know about Echoes.

FWIW, there was a similar situation in HW development.  After the release of Link Between Worlds, there were questions about including characters from that in HW, and the answer was that the dev team didn't know about LBW until it's announcement, which was after the HW roster was finalized.  There is precedent for Nintendo not sharing in-dev projects with the Warriors development team (FEW is the same team as HW).

[Tolvir]

4 minutes ago, FiyaaEmburem said:

Maybe Alm is unlockable and not in the box ? (like Smash Bros. maybe it will have unlockables)

Then why show Celica at all? What would be the point if the other just as important character is hidden in the game, and one is not? Wouldnt it actually be the opposite? Alm be on the front, and Celica be hidden considering you play Alm first? It just doesnt add up.

On top of it her sprite doesnt look like Celica's from SoV. If they knew about SoV, they would of had the sprite. Considering that isnt, that means they used a custom sprite for a character from Gaiden, probably the most unpopular game in the series before the remake, outside of maybe FE5. But at least Thracia was playable.

Edited September 12, 2017 by Tolvir

[Nanima]

8 minutes ago, Florete said:

I don't disagree with anything you've said here, but it wouldn't be lying on their part. It would be the fans' faults for assuming, and there also have still occasionally been people hoping for the likes of Ike or Roy in the base game because deep down we knew that the chances for them weren't completely shot.

And honestly, I don't care about this causing whining "because Ike/Hector/Roy/Alm isn't in!" No matter who gets revealed there will be whining. It's how these things work.

Why the hell do people keep saying this? Do you not realize that the dev team would have known of Echoes existence long before it was announced to the general public?

So it wouldn't be lying on a technicality. They would certainly know how people would take these words, have taken these words, in many cases. Why set themselves up like that besides crappy marketing? Why play coy, knowing it would result in ridiculous backlash? They could have said something like "We'll be mostly pulling from these 3 games, but there might be a few surprises." which would still have caused whining, but not to the extent of them hiding behind vague wording all this time. If this leak is true, they'll have two big shitstorms over this topic instead of one. And this one will be much closer to release, so probably all the more damaging.

I am not saying this guarantees them not doing it (considering the PR team has screwed up so much already), but I am saying it would be yet another stupid PR move on their part.

[Medeus]

18 minutes ago, YotsuMaboroshi said:

Maybe.  The dev team belongs to KT, not Nintendo, while Echoes was developed by IS, which is one of Nintendo's studios.  IS could have shared details of Echoes with the FEW dev team, but there's no reason to assume that they would share an early development project with a third party studio.  And before anyone brings up Roy and Smash, both studios in that case were first party under Nintendo, which is not the same as a third party being informed of something being developed in-house.  It doesn't preclude the possibility, but dev interviews have said Fates was chosen because it was the most recent, which sort of implies they didn't know about Echoes.

FWIW, there was a similar situation in HW development.  After the release of Link Between Worlds, there were questions about including characters from that in HW, and the answer was that the dev team didn't know about LBW until it's announcement, which was after the HW roster was finalized.  There is precedent for Nintendo not sharing in-dev projects with the Warriors development team (FEW is the same team as HW).

Honestly, the fact that IS shared Roy with Sakurai does lend to the possibility of them sharing Celica with Koei. Yes Sakurai was working between companies with strong Nintendo ties, but we know that IS is working closely with Koei to the point that things like character suggestions are being contributed to the game through them. So it's not like there's a strict boundary between the companies that is hard to cross, IS can and has had an influence for which characters are playable such as with Lucina, and if they do have that much influence they can easily suggested adding in one of the two Echoes protagonist as promotion.

Also, we can't just look at what happened with HW and use that as a strict guideline for how IS will act. The Zelda team and FE team are both under Nintendo, but they're still two different teams with potentially different ideologies and directions and we already see that with the more hands-on approach that the latter seems to be taking relative to the former. Theoretically, IS could be more open with their upcoming projects with Koei and thus they knew beforehand Echoes existed unlike what happened with LBW .

Edited September 12, 2017 by Medeus

[Lord-Zero]

1 hour ago, Florete said:

I and many others didn't put any stock in it for good reason, but they technically never said it would be only SD/Awakening/Fates, just that it was going to focus on those three. It wouldn't be lying if they did decide to include a few characters from other games.

You and many people are forgetting one very important detail regarding that: the OCs. 

This is Hyrule Warriors all over again instead of having people crying and moaning for Groose, Vaati and many others, it's about Ike, Roy, and Lyndis. 

As for the leaks themselves: Lyn and Celica of all people? No, no, no, no, no, no....both can can get Valflame'd for all I care. Celica getting in over Alm is already ridiculous as it is. 

The 4ch leak is far more reasonable. We'll know for sure tomorrow. 

Edited September 12, 2017 by Lord-Zero

[YotsuMaboroshi]

11 minutes ago, Medeus said:

Honestly, the fact that IS shared Roy with Sakurai does lend to the possibility of them sharing Celica with Koei. Yes Sakurai was working between companies with strong Nintendo ties, but we know that IS is working closely with Koei to the point that things like character suggestions (ex. Lucina) are being contributed to the game through them. It's not like there's a strict boundary between the companies that is hard to cross, IS can and has suggested characters be added in, and if they do have that much influence they can easily suggested adding in one of the two Echoes protagonist as promotion.

Also, we can't just look at what happened with HW and use that as a strict guideline for how IS will act. The Zelda team and FE team are both under Nintendo, but they're still two different teams with different ideologies and directions and we already see that with the more hands-on approach that the latter seems to be taking relative to the former. So just because Koei wasn't aware with LBW with Zelda's team doesn't mean they weren't aware with Echoes with IS.

There is a fairly large difference between sharing in-dev information between two first party studios, and sharing first party in-dev project details with a third party studio.  The former still has one controlling factor, both are still Nintendo.  Sharing with a third party means the information goes to a party Nintendo doesn't have as much control over.  There is also a difference between making character suggestions based on known games, and saying 'we're developing these characters, use them'.

We can't say whether KT knew about Echoes before announcement or not, until someone asks the question at an interview and it is answered.  There is no evidence whether they knew or not at this time.  We do know that they didn't know about Heroes until they presented their OC designs and had to change them due to looking too much like Alfonse/Sharena, so it seems more likely to me that they didn't know about Echoes until after the roster was done.

Edited September 12, 2017 by YotsuMaboroshi

[Truthblade]

Lyn I could understand (somewhat). But Celica without/instead of Alm of all people makes me doubt its legitimacy. 

 

But somehow, the fact it is so unbelievable makes me think it could be real. (I am still putting my money on it being fake though.)

[Lord-Zero]

It doesn't have Wrys as the joke character. Both are fake to me. 

 

[Vespinae]

I guess I just don't understand why people are mad at the inclusion of Lyn and Celica. Lyn is THE most popular character in the entire franchise, at least according to the CYL poll, why wouldn't people want her, or think it's fake because she's in. It seems like KT knew, and included her since she's obviously insanely possible. Plus, Hector or ELiwood or both could be DLC, it just seems obvious that she'd be in.

In addition, Celica's game was the most recent one. It makes a lot of sense for them to put the characters from their most recent game. She also uses a combination of magic and swords, so since the devs wanted to distance themselves from sword users, her inclusion also makes more sense than Alm's, who could also be DLC as well.

[Jedi]

8 minutes ago, Vespinae said:

I guess I just don't understand why people are mad at the inclusion of Lyn and Celica. Lyn is THE most popular character in the entire franchise, at least according to the CYL poll, why wouldn't people want her, or think it's fake because she's in. It seems like KT knew, and included her since she's obviously insanely possible. Plus, Hector or ELiwood or both could be DLC, it just seems obvious that she'd be in.

In addition, Celica's game was the most recent one. It makes a lot of sense for them to put the characters from their most recent game. She also uses a combination of magic and swords, so since the devs wanted to distance themselves from sword users, her inclusion also makes more sense than Alm's, who could also be DLC as well.

I think people are more upset because Lyn isn't coming with Ike and Roy, and Celica isn't coming with Alm than them being included, although I do know a fair number of people who dislike both characters. 

Lyn for her overall irrelevance in FE7 and Celica for her stupidity in Part 4 onward.

Edited September 12, 2017 by Jedi

[Azure Sen]

2 minutes ago, Vespinae said:

Lyn is THE most popular character in the entire franchise, at least according to the CYL poll,

The CYL poll wasn't used to decide the roster. I think part of the reason why Lyn (and Celica maybe too)'s inclusion is considered feasible is that people don't realize that the roster has long since been finalized, well before the CYL poll happened..

[Lord-Zero]

2 minutes ago, Jedi said:

I think people are more upset because Lyn isn't coming with Ike and Roy, and Celica isn't coming with Alm than them being included, although I do know a fair number of people who dislike both characters. 

Lyn for her overall irrelevance in FE7 and Celica for her stupidity in Part 4 onward.

I happen to dislike both. 

As for Lyn, not only her irrelevance in FE7 but also her and pretty much every Myrmidon-like character constantly dying to axe users in every FE game I've played.

Celica, yes, her stupidity didn't do her any favors. I'd rather have Faye or Tobin. Heck, Rudolf would be ideal. 

 

[Quintessence]

Just watched the post of the leaked image and I feel quite good about it. Celica, Tiki (it was obvious), Anna and Lyn seem like a pretty good choice to me despite all the complaints.

I think choosing units "out of the box" is smart because it won't topple the more "important" ones. Shadow Dragon, Awakening and Fates characters are the ones getting more focus and choosing units like Ike, Hector, Roy, etc., will probably steal their spotlight (as people will be more interested on these ones rather than the first characters introduced).

[Azz]

9 minutes ago, AzureSen said:

The CYL poll wasn't used to decide the roster. I think part of the reason why Lyn (and Celica maybe too)'s inclusion is considered feasible is that people don't realize that the roster has long since been finalized, well before the CYL poll happened..

I agree. People also seem to forget that Rowan and Lianna had to be redesigned because they Askr twins happened (Rowan and LIanna having been made first but being revealed later than the Askr twins). The roster was never gonna e based on the CYL poll. If anything, the only polls that were probably taken into account were the Awakening and Fates polls.

Edited September 12, 2017 by Azz

[Truthblade]

8 minutes ago, Vespinae said:

I guess I just don't understand why people are mad at the inclusion of Lyn and Celica. Lyn is THE most popular character in the entire franchise, at least according to the CYL poll, why wouldn't people want her, or think it's fake because she's in. It seems like KT knew, and included her since she's obviously insanely possible. Plus, Hector or ELiwood or both could be DLC, it just seems obvious that she'd be in.

In addition, Celica's game was the most recent one. It makes a lot of sense for them to put the characters from their most recent game. She also uses a combination of magic and swords, so since the devs wanted to distance themselves from sword users, her inclusion also makes more sense than Alm's, who could also be DLC as well.

 

2 minutes ago, Jedi said:

I think people are more upset because Lyn isn't coming with Ike and Roy, and Celica isn't coming with Alm than them being included, although I do know a fair number of people who dislike both characters.

I wouldn't be mad about Lyn and Celica at all, but it seems like they have came far from the left field. Especially giving the criteria they are using for character decisions (being that character relations play a large role), having Celica in there without Alm is extremely jarring,  (same with Lyn without Eliwood/Hector, but probably not to the same extent), combined with the fact that she and Lyn are just standing there in a sea of Fates, Awakening, and Shadow Dragon characters, all of which make the "leak" seem very dubious. Of course, the unpredictability could make it seem more authentic, but I'm still betting on it being fake

[Medeus]

32 minutes ago, YotsuMaboroshi said:

There is a fairly large difference between sharing in-dev information between two first party studios, and sharing first party in-dev project details with a third party studio.  The former still has one controlling factor, both are still Nintendo.  Sharing with a third party means the information goes to a party Nintendo doesn't have as much control over.  There is also a difference between making character suggestions based on known games, and saying 'we're developing these characters, use them'.

We can't say whether KT knew about Echoes before announcement or not, until someone asks the question at an interview and it is answered.  There is no evidence whether they knew or not at this time.  We do know that they didn't know about Heroes until they presented their OC designs and had to change them due to looking too much like Alfonse/Sharena, so it seems more likely to me that they didn't know about Echoes until after the roster was done.

Except we also know Nintendo has suggested characters as well, so it's not like Nintendo would be out of the loop. If IS wanted Koei to use Celica, they'd know and probably approved it, so I don't believe it would've made that much of a difference in the long run since Nintendo still has a presence for both projects. Additionally, character suggestions have happened between different parties as well and for advertising reasons on top of that. Part of the reason PlayStation All-Star had a questionable roster was reportedly because other companies kept saying 'no, we're not giving you this character, we'll give you this one', which is why we got things like Raiden for Metal Gear Revengeance rather then Snake, Dante from the reboot rather then his classic form, etc.

As for the OCs, that depends on how early they were presented as the only detail we know is that they weren't aware at the time, with the exact time not being known to us. Theoretically it could've been before the roster was decided and they were just starting to plan out everything for the game, with Celica being a late addition a la Roy.

Edited September 12, 2017 by Medeus

[Tolvir]

4chan leak confirmed to be fake. The person who created it posted the original on twitter claiming he created it out of boredom, and that someone took it and posted it on 4chan as a "leak". Or himself, not sure. On mobile right now but will post a link and some screenshots when I can get my laptop.

Edited September 12, 2017 by Tolvir

[Truthblade]

4 minutes ago, Tolvir said:

4chan leak confirmed to be fake. The person who created it posted the original on twitter, he created it out of boredom, someone took it and posted it on 4chan as a "leak". On mobile right now but will post a link and some screenshots when I can get my laptop.

Just saw that a minute ago. Not surprised.

[Jedi]

10 minutes ago, Tolvir said:

4chan leak confirmed to be fake. The person who created it posted the original on twitter claiming he created it out of boredom, and that someone took it and posted it on 4chan as a "leak". Or himself, not sure. On mobile right now but will post a link and some screenshots when I can get my laptop.

Ok so thats out. Good to know.