Clones and Default Movesets

[Tolvir]

1 minute ago, Peaceful_User said:

They better! It'd make no sense otherwise! Plus I want to see Cain + Abel and Gordin + Draug finally get supports for once! New Mystery fucked them over in terms of interaction. The OGs like Cain and Abel for example couldn't even interact with each other! (Cain trying to comfort a hurt Abel for betraying his country would've been grand). That is one of my many problems with New Mystery. 

Jagen is the Frederick to Marth's Chrom.

Cain and Abel started an entire archetype making them landmarks and they're at the beginning of Marth's tale too. No excuses.

That's what I was saying. Camus might've been made first tho since he's a villain and has a bigger role in the story. 

He also may not have a role in the story at all. Considering he was only an antagonist because he held a duty to his kingdom first. If the bad guy of Warriors has no attachment to his kingdom or the story of SD as a whole, there is really no reason for him to be an antagonist outside of History Mode.

[Seazas]

6 minutes ago, Tolvir said:

He also may not have a role in the story at all. Considering he was only an antagonist because he held a duty to his kingdom first. If the bad guy of Warriors has no attachment to his kingdom or the story of SD as a whole, there is really no reason for him to be an antagonist outside of History Mode.

They might find an excuse. As long as he's actually competent I'm good.

Plus you never know they might throw the twin's in Marth's word at the point where Camus encounter happens.

After all from one of the scenes they showed the Fire Emblem receiving the first piece from Chrom instead of Marth. Chrom did have the blue energy orb thing after all. 

Edited September 15, 2017 by Peaceful_User

[Tolvir]

15 minutes ago, Peaceful_User said:

They might find an excuse. As long as he's actually competent I'm good.

Plus you never know they might throw the twin's in Marth's word at the point where Camus encounter happens.

After all from one of the scenes they showed the Fire Emblem receiving the first piece from Chrom instead of Marth. Chrom did have the blue energy orb thing after all. 

True, who knows. Its kind of a wait and see thing at this point. I do hope he is in though, can see why he wouldnt.

[SMinairo]

1 hour ago, Deva Ashera said:

I'd rather have more characters over less, I don't care if a few share a handful of animations. We've already seen that with Elise and Sakura having their own moves. Leo also has generic moves if equipped with any other Tome (granted, the casting animation is the same regardless), which you have been shown able to do in this game.

It's only lazy if it was done out of laziness, I feel this was done more out of a desire to have a large roster like in Fire Emblem. 

Would you call the main Fire Emblem series lazy due to characters sharing animations?

I explained myself poorly in my first comment, so I'll try again.

Obviously I prefer having a character as a clone than not having it at all, and I'm fine with clones... on lesser characters. My issue is: characters like Leo or Takumi should have a moveset on their own, Elise and Sakura doesn't have a legendary weapon, so it isn't that bad, but imo Leo should use more brynhildr and less "random tomes", and Sakura, or the archer moveset, a bit slower (but that's me thinking that the strongest show doesn't suite her).

I know they do it for efficiency, the reason I called it lazy wasn't the clones themself or the animations, but the combination of the point above (the unique movesets) and not having enough clases and clones to pull it off right now imo.

I hope this time I've explained better.

1 hour ago, Tolvir said:

I agree with you on the important characters. Lords should have unique movesets, as they do in their own game. But I really do not think you can call this lazy.. Not every character needs to be really unique, as my point was we have 5 potential heroes in Fates without taking into account reclassing. Do each of those 5 potential Heroes need their own unique moveset, or should we create a Hero moveset that each of them use with a small amount of variation in each? Option 1 means maybe 2 of those characters  actually make the cut, option 2 means that potentially all 5 make the cut. I think I would take option 2. Keep in mind we are dealing with a series here that has upwards of 300+ characters and growing as its overall roster. Thats not including remake and sequel variations.

Its not called being lazy. Its called being efficient. It only becomes lazy once the motivation behind it was wanting to cut corners. But if the motivation was an attempt to get every Fire Emblem character as possible into the game, can you really call that lazy?

I'm fine with your example of 5 heroes, they would be included in the "lesser characters" tag, read above to see what I meant with lazy, it probably can be resumed in "I'd be fine with the system, but I'm not with the one from the game as of now".

[Deva Ashera]

2 minutes ago, Sbuscoz said:

I explained myself poorly in my first comment, so I'll try again.

Obviously I prefer having a character as a clone than not having it at all, and I'm fine with clones... on lesser characters. My issue is: characters like Leo or Takumi should have a moveset on their own, Elise and Sakura doesn't have a legendary weapon, so it isn't that bad, but imo Leo should use more brynhildr and less "random tomes", and Sakura, or the archer moveset, a bit slower (but that's me thinking that the strongest show doesn't suite her).

I know they do it for efficiency, the reason I called it lazy wasn't the clones themself or the animations, but the combination of the point above (the unique movesets) and not having enough clases and clones to pull it off right now imo.

I hope this time I've explained better.

I'm fine with your example of 5 heroes, they would be included in the "lesser characters" tag, read above to see what I meant with lazy, it probably can be resumed in "I'd be fine with the system, but I'm not with the one from the game as of now".

Don't Leo & Takumi still have the same animations as other male mounted mages and archers respectively though? I forget since I don't really use either of them. That said, it's possible that they taught Elise and Sakura how to use tomes/yumi.

[Tolvir]

14 minutes ago, Sbuscoz said:

I explained myself poorly in my first comment, so I'll try again.

Obviously I prefer having a character as a clone than not having it at all, and I'm fine with clones... on lesser characters. My issue is: characters like Leo or Takumi should have a moveset on their own, Elise and Sakura doesn't have a legendary weapon, so it isn't that bad, but imo Leo should use more brynhildr and less "random tomes", and Sakura, or the archer moveset, a bit slower (but that's me thinking that the strongest show doesn't suite her).

I know they do it for efficiency, the reason I called it lazy wasn't the clones themself or the animations, but the combination of the point above (the unique movesets) and not having enough clases and clones to pull it off right now imo.

I hope this time I've explained better.

I'm fine with your example of 5 heroes, they would be included in the "lesser characters" tag, read above to see what I meant with lazy, it probably can be resumed in "I'd be fine with the system, but I'm not with the one from the game as of now".

Ok, makes more sense. I agree fully, important characters like that should be unique. There is no reason Takumi and Sakura should have the same moveset. At the very least Takumi should have a unique moveset while using Fujin Yumi, and a base Archer moveset with any other weapon. I think Sakura could get away with a base archer set though, given she has no PRF weapon or obvious canon class that Takumi and Leo have.

I think it should mostly be reserved for Lords and characters with PRF weapons, like Hector, Lyn, Black Knight, Leo, etc.

Edited September 15, 2017 by Tolvir

[Nanima]

We have yet to see Sakura use anything but the most basic attack string. It's too early to say there is too much similarity. I agree that Leo should use Bryhildr more and actually produce trees with it, like in the game. Otherwise the elemental distinction between Siegfried and Brynhildr is way too narrow. 

As for Sakura's weapon style, while I do think giving her a more grounded style would be better (as a nod to priestess' fighting animations) it's ultimately not too big of a deal. Many people here are leaning in the direction of "she is too weak of a fighter for the style to suit her.". Besides this argument being ridiculous in a game where Lissa can use Frederick as a hammer, you are also not giving Sakura enough credit here. She had a higher strength growth than average for a healer in Fates, stood in Corn's way during Chapter 6 despite not even being able to fight, and was later perfectly willing to shoot them in the face. Plus it's more than reasonable to assume Takumi would be the one to train her in archery. 

Again, she has only used the same basic attack string yet, which doesn't even involve that many crazy stunts. It's safe to assume that she won't do the same amount of crazy flips as Takumi nor turn her arrows into a lightsaber to whack enemies. I get wanting characters to be more unique movement wise but using the argument of "this little girl would never fight like that." is ridiculous when you give Lissa a free pass.

[Jedi]

11 hours ago, Tolvir said:

I can definitely understand where that would be annoying, and definitely as lazy, but I think we have a bit of a different scenario here. Fire Emblem has never really had unique movesets for most characters. That is typically reserved for the Lord and maybe some villains. Even Xander and Ryoma used the default moveset of their class with a few exceptions. Fire Emblem has always put more emphasis on class movesets being what is unique, not the character. You could have 3 different sword wielders in Fire Emblem, but each of them has different animations, for example Swordmaster, Hero, and Master of Arms in Fates.

So why not translate that over to Warriors as far as FE Warriors is concerned? Instead of each character getting their own unique moveset, cutting down a potential roster, why not have each character use a default moveset of the class they are, with slight variations between them? Not only would this open up possiblities for characters that stood no chance, but also allow for multiple of each type without really harming a roster. Instead of splitting a cast by X game, now you split it up by class. All your Paladins here, all your Heroes here, Swordmasters there, etc. Fire Emblem has always handed out multiples of a class in the past, as I said in the original post in Fates alone you have 3 mercenaries at base, with another 2 capable of going into the Hero class, making for an effective 5 heroes before looking at reclassing. How would this really be any different?

Would that really be considered lazy from a development standpoint? Especially when you are looking at a character roster from each game that is enough to fuel 1 maybe even 2 Warriors games on their own?

EDIT: To really clarify what my mean, what if a FE Warriors was set up like this. You have a base of 10 classes. Lets say Paladin, Fighter, Hero, Swordmaster, General, Archer, Sage, Thief, Wyvern Rider, Pegasus Knight. From there they develop about 5 characters for each subtype, which right there is technically a 50 character roster, but as far as development was concerned only 10 unique movesets were created. So in reality only 10 characters. Would that really be a bad design as much as a smart one that really allows for Koei to tap into the Fire Emblem roster?

I just don't like people fighting the exact same, and they may as well be character skins at that point instead of full on characters, I see it as a lack of effort and a lack of trying to incorporate a characters traits into their moveset.

Dynasty Warriors & Samurai Warriors are based loosely on historical events and they go balls to the wall and ham with the movesets, and even with  Guest characters like Ryu Hayabusa they are faithful to his moveset when he shows up like in Orochi 3, but also incorporate some different moves that still feel uniquely his without taking inspiration from another character.  Than having an overly bloated samey roster.

I really dislike the thought of having more people if they are simply going to have the same base as each other. I'd rather every character be 80 to 100% unique from one another, which some Warriors games HAVE achieved in the past.   

While I do get what you're saying from an FE point of view, I'm trying to see this from both a FE and Warriors fan PoV and I'd rather have the best of both worlds, like most of the mechanics seem to be doing outside of the movesets.

Edited September 15, 2017 by Jedi

[SMinairo]

7 hours ago, Deva Ashera said:

Don't Leo & Takumi still have the same animations as other male mounted mages and archers respectively though? I forget since I don't really use either of them. That said, it's possible that they taught Elise and Sakura how to use tomes/yumi.

Probably, but imo they should use this opportunity to gave them a moveset with personality, I don't care if Leo cast his spell in the same pose as the others but make the attack, or at least the effect, unique, as he doesn't has a reason to use any other tome that isn't Brynhildr.

3 hours ago, Nanima said:

We have yet to see Sakura use anything but the most basic attack string. It's too early to say there is too much similarity. I agree that Leo should use Bryhildr more and actually produce trees with it, like in the game. Otherwise the elemental distinction between Siegfried and Brynhildr is way too narrow. 

As for Sakura's weapon style, while I do think giving her a more grounded style would be better (as a nod to priestess' fighting animations) it's ultimately not too big of a deal. Many people here are leaning in the direction of "she is too weak of a fighter for the style to suit her.". Besides this argument being ridiculous in a game where Lissa can use Frederick as a hammer, you are also not giving Sakura enough credit here. She had a higher strength growth than average for a healer in Fates, stood in Corn's way during Chapter 6 despite not even being able to fight, and was later perfectly willing to shoot them in the face. Plus it's more than reasonable to assume Takumi would be the one to train her in archery. 

Again, she has only used the same basic attack string yet, which doesn't even involve that many crazy stunts. It's safe to assume that she won't do the same amount of crazy flips as Takumi nor turn her arrows into a lightsaber to whack enemies. I get wanting characters to be more unique movement wise but using the argument of "this little girl would never fight like that." is ridiculous when you give Lissa a free pass.

I can only spek for myself, but when I said that the style doesn't suit her I was talking about her personality and, as you said, the priestess ainmation, that's why I don't care about Lissa, her moveset suits her upbeat personality. And yeah, we have only seen her basic string, but it still seems a little bit over the top to me, jumping and turning around (but that's more a personal opinion).

[Nanima]

52 minutes ago, Sbuscoz said:

Probably, but imo they should use this opportunity to gave them a moveset with personality, I don't care if Leo cast his spell in the same pose as the others but make the attack, or at least the effect, unique, as he doesn't has a reason to use any other tome that isn't Brynhildr.

I can only spek for myself, but when I said that the style doesn't suit her I was talking about her personality and, as you said, the priestess ainmation, that's why I don't care about Lissa, her moveset suits her upbeat personality. And yeah, we have only seen her basic string, but it still seems a little bit over the top to me, jumping and turning around (but that's more a personal opinion).

We will have to agree to disagree I guess, since personally, with her "silk hiding steel" attitude I can still see her having a more aggressive moveset while fighting. Granted I don't think it will be entirely too aggressive anyway.

But if you are still worried, here is an interesting fact: In a recent Famitsu article, one the writer's who got to play the game for a bit (including as Sakura and Takumi) stated that (paraphrased) "Takumi's normal movement animation is unlike anyone else's, to the point of moving like a figure skater when dodging". Since the same is apparently not true of Sakura, we can already see that she is less crazy in the agility department.

[Deva Ashera]

1 hour ago, Sbuscoz said:

Probably, but imo they should use this opportunity to gave them a moveset with personality, I don't care if Leo cast his spell in the same pose as the others but make the attack, or at least the effect, unique, as he doesn't has a reason to use any other tome that isn't Brynhildr.

He doesn't, but you can equip him with different tomes that aren't Brynhildr in both Fates and Warriors so having a few non-Brynhildr attacks makes sense while also adding a bit more variety to his attacks.

[Tolvir]

5 hours ago, Jedi said:

I just don't like people fighting the exact same, and they may as well be character skins at that point instead of full on characters, I see it as a lack of effort and a lack of trying to incorporate a characters traits into their moveset.

Dynasty Warriors & Samurai Warriors are based loosely on historical events and they go balls to the wall and ham with the movesets, and even with  Guest characters like Ryu Hayabusa they are faithful to his moveset when he shows up like in Orochi 3, but also incorporate some different moves that still feel uniquely his without taking inspiration from another character.  Than having an overly bloated samey roster.

I really dislike the thought of having more people if they are simply going to have the same base as each other. I'd rather every character be 80 to 100% unique from one another, which some Warriors games HAVE achieved in the past.   

While I do get what you're saying from an FE point of view, I'm trying to see this from both a FE and Warriors fan PoV and I'd rather have the best of both worlds, like most of the mechanics seem to be doing outside of the movesets.

Understandable. I can definitely see why a lot of clones would be annoying, especially since you are coming from both sides of the two games. I would rather they be fully unique as well, but from what I can see with what would be the best path for FE, I dont see it being really all that possible. Unless Koei goes the typical Smash route and takes 5 or more years on a single game to have a roster of 70+ that is unique.

Going with a smaller cast to have a more unique playstyle for each really bars a lot of characters. And I really mean a lot here. Just look at the scenario we have here with Fates. More than likely, Fates only roster is going to be its most important characters. The royals, Corrin, and Azura. Hell, there is a chance Azura doesnt even make it. Characters like the various retainers are already at a disadvantage, let alone anyone who isnt even that important like Benny, Charlotte, etc. Then you take into account that not just do we have 3 games being focused on, but Lyn's inclusion means more games are possible. A lot of these side characters dont stand a single chance, and unfortunately its the large and varied cast that makes Fire Emblem so enjoyable. A character like Bastian might be lucky enough to take a clone slot in FE Warriors 6.

In my opinion, for a FE Warriors game to work really well, they either need to choose only 1 game at a time, which ruins part of the fun of the concept, or they really need to find a way to implement a sizable enough cast. Fire Emblem is a series with a massive roster, and the amount of characters that will get shafted is literally in the hundreds. Its inevitable, not every character will make it in, but if we have to sacrifice a bit of uniqueness for each character for someone outside of the main character slot to stand a chance, I would gladly take it.

I do think maybe a compromise could be made between the two. As I said in an earlier post, Lords and main characters should have a unique moveset, especially anyone with a PRF weapon like Ike, Xander, Camus, Hector, etc. And maybe a mostly generic class based moveset is used, but variations can be made based on the character to make it more unique.

Edited September 15, 2017 by Tolvir

[Troykv]

For a franchise based around tons of characters where the most important differences between them are the personalities and the stats... I think it's understandable to see semi-cloned characters.

[Deva Ashera]

1 hour ago, Troykv said:

For a franchise based around tons of characters where the most important differences between them are the personalities and the stats... I think it's understandable to see semi-cloned characters.

Ditto.

I don't mind characters sharing movesets anyway since, in this game's case, it gives me an option of using a character I do like, or prefer, even if I love the base moveset whereas if I'm forced to use a character I don't like, there's a chance I'll be mostly familiar with their moveset from a character I do like that shares it.

[TheSS]

My 2 cents on this issue is that it's very important for them to make a game that doesn't just have fire emblem fan service, but also capture what people really love about fire emblem at a core level and use it to spice up a warriors game. They did a good job with adding things like History Mode, which outright incorporates the gameplay of FE games.

In terms of roster, it's pretty important that the game have a lot of characters. Not just because fire emblem games have a lot of characters, but because those characters are central to the appeal. So much of the game is about choosing to use your favorite units and growing attached to them on a personal level as the they grow stronger. You want everyone to have their favorite character in this game, because personal attachment to characters is so central to the experience. So many people have a different favorite character they want to play as, so covering as much ground as possible is necessary. 

For this reason, I DO like how they chose to focus on games everyone has played (Awakening and Fates) rather than older ones. The majority of fans (many of whom have only played those two and echoes) are likely to have their personal favorite from one of those games. Combined with some fan favorites from older games (Lyn, probably Ike), you can get most fans with their favorite.

However, if we can afford the inclusion of clones via generic movesets, that's a huge advantage. You can include a much larger percentage of the cast of Awakening and Fates and cover much more territory. 

And, more to the point, God damn you I want to send Elise and Odin into battle together because I am shipping trash.

8 hours ago, Jedi said:

I just don't like people fighting the exact same, and they may as well be character skins at that point instead of full on characters, I see it as a lack of effort and a lack of trying to incorporate a characters traits into their moveset.

Dynasty Warriors & Samurai Warriors are based loosely on historical events and they go balls to the wall and ham with the movesets, and even with  Guest characters like Ryu Hayabusa they are faithful to his moveset when he shows up like in Orochi 3, but also incorporate some different moves that still feel uniquely his without taking inspiration from another character.  Than having an overly bloated samey roster.

I really dislike the thought of having more people if they are simply going to have the same base as each other. I'd rather every character be 80 to 100% unique from one another, which some Warriors games HAVE achieved in the past.   

While I do get what you're saying from an FE point of view, I'm trying to see this from both a FE and Warriors fan PoV and I'd rather have the best of both worlds, like most of the mechanics seem to be doing outside of the movesets.

The thing is that it's very much a choice between 30 unique characters and 60 characters, 30 of whom are unique. A single moveset takes a huge amount of time to create and playtest. If anything, adding the clones is going the extra mile, even more so if there are slight differences in their moveset. 

I can see how, while playing,if most of the characters are clones, it would get frustrating. I think this can be fixed by simply backloading all of the clones. Have them be bonues for things you do after the main story, and make it clear that they aren't their own characters in every way, but are a fun bonus.

[Jedi]

20 minutes ago, TheSS said:

My 2 cents on this issue is that it's very important for them to make a game that doesn't just have fire emblem fan service, but also capture what people really love about fire emblem at a core level and use it to spice up a warriors game. They did a good job with adding things like History Mode, which outright incorporates the gameplay of FE games.

In terms of roster, it's pretty important that the game have a lot of characters. Not just because fire emblem games have a lot of characters, but because those characters are central to the appeal. So much of the game is about choosing to use your favorite units and growing attached to them on a personal level as the they grow stronger. You want everyone to have their favorite character in this game, because personal attachment to characters is so central to the experience. So many people have a different favorite character they want to play as, so covering as much ground as possible is necessary. 

For this reason, I DO like how they chose to focus on games everyone has played (Awakening and Fates) rather than older ones. The majority of fans (many of whom have only played those two and echoes) are likely to have their personal favorite from one of those games. Combined with some fan favorites from older games (Lyn, probably Ike), you can get most fans with their favorite.

However, if we can afford the inclusion of clones via generic movesets, that's a huge advantage. You can include a much larger percentage of the cast of Awakening and Fates and cover much more territory. 

And, more to the point, God damn you I want to send Elise and Odin into battle together because I am shipping trash.

The thing is that it's very much a choice between 30 unique characters and 60 characters, 30 of whom are unique. A single moveset takes a huge amount of time to create and playtest. If anything, adding the clones is going the extra mile, even more so if there are slight differences in their moveset. 

I can see how, while playing,if most of the characters are clones, it would get frustrating. I think this can be fixed by simply backloading all of the clones. Have them be bonues for things you do after the main story, and make it clear that they aren't their own characters in every way, but are a fun bonus.

I'd see that as a very cheap bonus, Dynasty Warriors 6 did that method to a degree (to a bunch of characters who had unique movesets to begin with) who didn't have their own story modes.

a vast majority of the Warriors fandom despises DW6 for that and many other reasons.

also imagine how tedious it would get for completionests, they'd have to use the same moveset again, and again and again, and again.

I mean I know I'm in the minority here apperently but that's probably because I have actual experience with the Warriors side of things.

[TheSS]

6 minutes ago, Jedi said:

I'd see that as a very cheap bonus, Dynasty Warriors 6 did that method to a degree (to a bunch of characters who had unique movesets to begin with) who didn't have their own story modes.

a vast majority of the Warriors fandom despises DW6 for that and many other reasons.

also imagine how tedious it would get for completionests, they'd have to use the same moveset again, and again and again, and again.

I mean I know I'm in the minority here apperently but that's probably because I have actual experience with the Warriors side of things.

A cheap bonus in most contexts, sure, but this is an FE game. The huge cast and being able to use your favorites is a part of the appeal. Doing this actively plugs up a hole in the game's design. If they can do that for 'cheap', then I say let them.

It would definitely be a move for the fire emblem fans, not for the warriors fans. Since it doesn't outright take away from anything, I think it's for the best that it gets done, but I could understand how it could annoy some people (completionists, etc.)

[Jedi]

3 hours ago, TheSS said:

A cheap bonus in most contexts, sure, but this is an FE game. The huge cast and being able to use your favorites is a part of the appeal. Doing this actively plugs up a hole in the game's design. If they can do that for 'cheap', then I say let them.

It would definitely be a move for the fire emblem fans, not for the warriors fans. Since it doesn't outright take away from anything, I think it's for the best that it gets done, but I could understand how it could annoy some people (completionists, etc.)

The nice thing is, I see your point, it's just weird being a fan of both right now because I have certain expectations on both ends.

It'd be nice to see more fan favorites and favorites of people in general, I just have bad experiences with samey movesets in some previous games. Which is why it's a mild triggering point.

[SMinairo]

11 hours ago, Deva Ashera said:

He doesn't, but you can equip him with different tomes that aren't Brynhildr in both Fates and Warriors so having a few non-Brynhildr attacks makes sense while also adding a bit more variety to his attacks.

Ryoma can wield lots of sword/katanas, should they give him a steel katana and make him use raijinto only for a couple of moves?

Also, I'd say earth, gravity and trees is enough variety.

Edited September 15, 2017 by Sbuscoz

[TheSS]

1 hour ago, Jedi said:

The nice thing is, I see your point, it's just weird being a fan of both right now because I have certain expectations on both ends.

It'd be nice to see more fan favorites and favorites of people in general, I just have bad experiences with samey movesets in some previous games. Which is why it's a mild triggering point.

I still think it's a good idea, but I can see where you'd dislike it. I hope that if it does come that it's implemented in a way you find unobtrusive.

[Jedi]

36 minutes ago, TheSS said:

I still think it's a good idea, but I can see where you'd dislike it. I hope that if it does come that it's implemented in a way you find unobtrusive.

We can hope! I honestly feel people wouldn't be overall as annoyed as I'd be, but I can live with it, as it'd make people happier overall probably.

[TheSS]

Just now, Jedi said:

We can hope! I honestly feel people wouldn't be overall as annoyed as I'd be, but I can live with it, as it'd make people happier overall probably.

Presentation is definitely an important part of reception if they include this. I'm thinking something like, in a direct, they mention it in its own little category. Enough spotlight so you know what to expect and you can get excited, but not so much people expect much from it as a feature. That way it has that feeling of 'a fun little bonus' that is key to its reception.

[saisymbolic]

2 hours ago, Jedi said:

The nice thing is, I see your point, it's just weird being a fan of both right now because I have certain expectations on both ends.

It'd be nice to see more fan favorites and favorites of people in general, I just have bad experiences with samey movesets in some previous games. Which is why it's a mild triggering point.

If it makes you feel better, it annoys me as well as someone coming from DW/SW/WO series. I still flinch a little when I revisit DW7 at times.

That said, I can understand the usage of clones, but I'll always give them the side eye because I know Koei can do better because they have done better in the past. If it were possible, I would have taken a 2018 release if it meant movesets could be unique and the game could be polished.

[Tolvir]

2 hours ago, saisymbolic said:

If it makes you feel better, it annoys me as well as someone coming from DW/SW/WO series. I still flinch a little when I revisit DW7 at times.

That said, I can understand the usage of clones, but I'll always give them the side eye because I know Koei can do better because they have done better in the past. If it were possible, I would have taken a 2018 release if it meant movesets could be unique and the game could be polished.

I definitely agree here. I am fully behind a game taking years to make if it means it is releasing in its best possible state. I have been waiting patiently for about 4 years now, probably will go on 5, for Cyberpunk 2077. CDProjekt RED is taking their time to make the best possible game they can, and I am fully ok with waiting that long for it, as both a ProjektRED fan and a Cyberpunk fan. I have the same mentality with Fire Emblem. If I was told Fire Emblem Warriors was going to be a long production with the possiblity of a few years before release, so that the game can have each and every character with their own unique moveset and as much content as possible, I would be entirely ok with that.

Unfortunately I dont think Koei really has that mentality as far as Warriors games go, but its a quality I wish more game companies had. Quality of quantity any day of the week.

Edited September 16, 2017 by Tolvir

[Reese Balaski]

I'm not opposed to clone characters or alts. I was fine with it in smash, I'll be fine with it here. Besides, I don't think they're full clones, really(Aside from the alt genders for Corrin and Robin, but that's obvious).

I believe some characters have the same general attack string, but different numerical stats and special attacks. At least, that's what I'm assuming from the footage that's been released so far.