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Why Speedrun of Thracia 776 only held in Japan


wewwew
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Speedrun of Thracia 776 is only held in Japan

I hope all international tacticians start this

Record is:

1: 2:03:14 magu https://www.twitch.tv/videos/85953080

2: 2:09:31 ryuta http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm29397654

3: 2:18:33 harigane

 

Rule is:

New Game ~~~ display of "FIN" in ED (Ending movie is about 12 minutes and it's included)

No Glitch

No Paragon Mode

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Molotov and Marsha on youtube, right

I know some of people here did good playthrough of Thracia, so I want some of them challenge this hardest playthrough.

 

Molotov's Malita main chart is kinda slow

Ideal main character is Nanna, Asbal or Fergus in order, but

Most stable main character is Asbel, Fergus or Malita

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8 minutes ago, wewwew said:

C'mon somebody confident of Thracia 

Show me great record and chart

I'd rather you reread the Code of Conduct, since double-posting is not allowed.

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I would consider this but I only have access to emulators, and I dislike speed running without actual hardware due to unfair timing differences (mostly lag). I don't think that the FE speedrunning community is all that big because the strategies for going fast start out interesting but then getting a little boring on the last half of the game (due to putting all the experience into a few units) and then just powering through and in the case of FE5, using the warp staff. This is especially true of using the Japan speedrun category for Fe5 and playing the game without doing all the recruits

The only weird thing I notice with the JPN record is chapter 20. I feel like blocking the spawn points would save animation time. Although on the other hand I think so many units are captured that you can't block enough of them. Not sure if the 16ish minutes of Chapter 20 would go down enough with the animation time blocked out to justify the time spent not letting people get captured. 

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12 hours ago, Reality said:

without doing all the recruits

The only weird thing I notice with the JPN record is chapter 20. I feel like blocking the spawn points would save animation time. Although on the other hand I think so many units are captured that you can't block enough of them. Not sure if the 16ish minutes of Chapter 20 would go down enough with the animation time blocked out to justify the time spent not letting people get captured. 

Actually There is 47 units recruit speedrun, and the record was 3:45:00

speaking of chapter 20, that's interesting idea. Maybe there must be better way to go since this takes too much time itself apparently.

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Ok so I was a little bored today and decided to look into some things. First thing I noticed is the runs use RNG manipulation which is kinda tricky in Thracia. Thracia's RNG relies on a timer that picks one of 64 different seeds. It's impossible for a human player to manipulate this. They appear to have calculated when the RNG from different seeds ends up lining up in order to get things like Safy's hammerne misses. I don't know if the runners have some tool publicly available but I would be able to code one up probably to find areas where RNG lines up across multiple seeds for other unreliable strats.

Looking at the routes in general I think using Felgus would be optimal. Magu while having the faster run is almost 8 minutes behind ryuta after Manster. While he does make up this time a lot of that is due to ryuta doing some questionable strategies around the mid game like picking up the charge manual and Tina in 12x and recruiting Ced in 23 which ended up losing him all his time he saved compared to Magu. Felgus isn't an ideal boss killer but assuredly a route can be found where he's faster than all the time lost by getting Asbel. Felgus only struggles to kill the boss of 21 and 22. If he gets a single point in magic which could probably be easily rigged during the manster chapters he reliably kills the boss of 22. 21 boss would be the big issue here since he has 17 magic and 44 hp. I think Fliers can attack the boss here at one range so Dean or Eda can do it with the killer lance. Dean would be ideal but I think it might be better to ditch him since I don't see any reason save Linoan and she wastes a unit slot. Eda killing him has about a 50% chance of success so it might be possible to manipulate that to 100%.

Also Another idea for the chapter 22 boss might be picking up Illios or Misha.

On 9/18/2017 at 4:47 PM, Reality said:

The only weird thing I notice with the JPN record is chapter 20. I feel like blocking the spawn points would save animation time. Although on the other hand I think so many units are captured that you can't block enough of them. Not sure if the 16ish minutes of Chapter 20 would go down enough with the animation time blocked out to justify the time spent not letting people get captured. 

This is tricky. The only way really do this to save time would be to manipulate move stars. And the only units that likely have a reliable enough move star rate that it wouldn't take too long to reliably manipulate would be Ronan, Sara, Perne, and Sleuf. Also Tina but I don't think recruiting her is worth the time cost. It certainly would be something to look into though.

Sub 2 hours should be possible just looking at the mistakes made by both runners.

Edited by Valkama
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6 hours ago, Valkama said:

hracia's RNG relies on a timer that picks one of 64 different seeds. It's impossible for a human player to manipulate this. They appear to have calculated when the RNG from different seeds ends up lining up in order to get things like Safy's hammerne misses. I don't know if the runners have some tool publicly available but I would be able to code one up probably to find areas where RNG lines up across multiple seeds for other unreliable strats.

Actually there is stable numbers which doesn't change in any seeds.

They used that technique. Like as doing hammerne misses, you adjust your RN to address 33, then you always get 94 number.

With this number, you could miss Hammerne anytime unless Saffy's skill is above 8.

JPN runners do that way. Also, address 42 is always 12. You could use those to make Tina grow without consuming thief.

 

Also, every chapter's initial RNG is stable. It saves a little time when you adjust RNG.

 

6 hours ago, Valkama said:

Looking at the routes in general I think using Felgus would be optimal. Magu while having the faster run is almost 8 minutes behind ryuta after Manster. While he does make up this time a lot of that is due to ryuta doing some questionable strategies around the mid game

Actually, Fergus is really unstable to beat bosses chapter 10, 16~22 since they have big shield.  That is why Fergus needs charge.

Asbel, Marita is quite stable, and Asbel could be trained in chapter 5, so magu chose it. Also Asbel doesn't need Fire Sword Hammarned. 

Marita has no time to train.

Nannna is actually until chapter 18, she is really stable with her magic sword. But after that, because of her lack of critical rate, she can't get through.

 

JPN Thracia speedrun has lot of history, they used even Dagda, Brighton, Orwen, and many others as main character.

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Ok so I couldn't figure out how to decipher that RNG map you linked but I decided instead to map it myself. When I was looking into the games RNG I found the positions for 94 and 12 but they were located at positions 35 and 47. Not sure why there is a discrepancy there but upon testing it I confirmed those as being the correct positions so I'm going to roll with it. I should be able to develop a program to search these RNG strings for similarities and maybe find positions where Felgus can reliable hit through Great Shield. I'd also probably look into reliably getting a 2 star movement star or a 1 star movement star but I see that as unlikely to happen. Worth a shot though cause it could save a lot of time. Not sure what all strings would be relevant but if I can develop a program to solve this I should be able to get away with almost anything provided it doesn't take to long to find a reliable position.

I definitely think Felgus is the best way to go about this. He costs no time to recruit, has reliable crit setups, and needs to be trained a little bit anyways so it makes sense. For avoiding the Hammerne on the fire sword a viable option may be to grab the fire sword in chapter 10. The armor is a little difficult to capture so I'll look into a reliable way of doing that. Might be worthwhile to grab the Armorslayer in chapter 3.

Edit: Ok so I did some quick testing with the seeds and found 2 more points of interest. At position 270(If a reset is treated as position 1) the game always rolls a 9. This means this position could be used to get Felgus his magic proc as well as proc move stars on 2 star units. At position 641 the game always rolls a 0. This position could be used to get a move star on 1 star units as well as get a unit a move growth. It takes a decent amount of time to reach the latter point(As well as it being difficult to keep track of) so I don't know how helpful it would be.

Edit2: Ok so I found out at certain positions I can get Fergus to get a success rate of 85-90% against the midgame bosses which is great. Against bosses that can counter he wants to attack from position 45 which can probably be setup.

Edited by Valkama
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15 hours ago, Valkama said:

Ok so I couldn't figure out how to decipher that RNG map you linked but I decided instead to map it myself.

great!! As you said I informed wrong addresses, sorry.

15 hours ago, Valkama said:

For avoiding the Hammerne on the fire sword a viable option may be to grab the fire sword in chapter 10. The armor is a little difficult to capture so I'll look into a reliable way of doing that. Might be worthwhile to grab the Armorslayer in chapter 3.

That is really difficult thing as you mind....

Coz after you suceeded to grab the fire sword in chapter 10, you face to difficult boss.

But yes worth thinking about it.

15 hours ago, Valkama said:

At position 641 the game always rolls a 0. This position could be used to get a move star on 1 star units as well as get a unit a move growth. It takes a decent amount of time to reach the latter point(As well as it being difficult to keep track of) so I don't know how helpful it would be.

great! you already made it.

Well to reach that number precisely, reset the RNG to 0 at first by opening status menu, and show "prediction of battle" to consume  RNG by 3 each time as Ryuta did in the beginning of chapter 3. He resets RNG to 0, and use Leaf's Light sword to show "prediction of battle" 11 times ( first one & 10 times right or left click) then set RNG to 33, and miss Hammerne.

16 hours ago, Valkama said:

Ok so I found out at certain positions I can get Fergus to get a success rate of 85-90% against the midgame bosses which is great. Against bosses that can counter he wants to attack from position 45 which can probably be setup.

You noticed it that fast, that's great, but actually not right.

Thracia RNG is consumed by 3 with each 1 attack. If skill occurs, plus 1, but determined after it really happens.

Also, you know you can see the battle prediction after you select "attack" and cursor the target. When that shows up, in Thracia, RNG will be consumed as if that battle had done once. With this "battle prediction", nobody knows if skill occurs or critical occurs.

 

This means

1: If you have skill and critical when you attack, you can't adjust RNG precisely , because "battle prediction" must be shown up.

2: But just stochastically, success rate would get little higher.

3: If you don't have any skill and critical, you can adjust RNG precisely.

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So since there's no challenge:

1. I'm going to lock this topic.
2. I do not want to see a repeat of this topic for the next two months.

If there's no interest, then there's no point in constantly bringing up the subject.

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