The Class You Hate the Most

[Emperor Hardin]

4 minutes ago, Lau said:

I dislike Knights and Generals. Low movement, poor aesthetic design...they're strong, but by the time they reach the battle, it's already over.

Personally I think aesthetic design is the main thing they have going for them...except in Awakening, that is a unsalvageable mess of a design.

[Dismissed]

18 minutes ago, Emperor Hardin said:

Personally I think aesthetic design is the main thing they have going for them...except in Awakening, that is a unsalvageable mess of a design.

At least Awakening's knights don't have toilethead armor like the cavaliers.

[Emperor Hardin]

7 minutes ago, Purple Mage said:

At least Awakening's knights don't have toilethead armor like the cavaliers.

They trip though, because everyone loved it in brawl..

[Mackc2]

1 hour ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

Perhaps, but frankly, I generally find they both have the same weakness, that being relying on their lesser stat for offense, Libra especially.

The levin sword isn't exactly rare and it basically makes Anna one of the most efficient units to field since she can fill the role of healer, offensive powerhouse and healer. Libra though does kinda suffer because the bolt axe is way rarer.

As for classes I hate it would have to be Pegasus knights because it just feels like I have to baby them. The problem is they have unrivalled mobility at the cost of every archer being a death sentence and generally low attack stats stop them from reliably killing their targets even if they are guaranteed a double, and they barely have the defence to survive a round of physical combat. So they are basically only good for baiting mages (And in awakening mages have wind tomes.) which other mages do better anyway since they can counterattack when they are hit. 

Lets add to that list dancers (except in heroes), I never saw the point of having a unit that who is incredibly weak to the point that they will crumble if attacked once that I consequently had to protect, just so I could allow another unit another hit to kill another enemy, I mean it could be useful if you happen to leave a unit in the range of an enemy that could kill it, but 90% of the time that means leaving the dancer in the enemies range instead which guarantees her death. Instead of going to all that hassle I could just field one more unit to help kill things.

In regards to armours I think they where pretty shit up until fates. In conquest they are a godsend because once they get wary fighter they are outright impossible to kill (especially if there name happens to be Benny.) especially since magic is fairly weak in fates. This also means they are the most annoying enemy units ever but that happens.

Edited September 17, 2017 by Mackc2

[Emperor Hardin]

42 minutes ago, Mackc2 said:

In regards to armours I think they where pretty shit up until fates. In conquest they are a godsend because once they get wary fighter they are outright impossible to kill (especially if there name happens to be Benny.) especially since magic is fairly weak in fates. This also means they are the most annoying enemy units ever but that happens.

Good in Conquest and Radiant Dawn. 

Just as Radiant Dawn's buffs didn't stick, Fates buffs disappeared in Echoes: Shadows of Valentia where Armors got even more weaknesses then the original.

[Infinite Dreams]

Knights/Generals.

I think they're mostly kinda ugly and too slow.  I bench most of them because they get left behind. 

Lukas was an exception.  He was so cool that I just couldn't bench him.

[Mackc2]

15 minutes ago, Emperor Hardin said:

Good in Conquest and Radiant Dawn. 

Just as Radiant Dawn's buffs didn't stick, Fates buffs disappeared in Echoes: Shadows of Valentia where Armors got even more weaknesses then the original.

I think that more has to do with SoV being a faithful Gaiden remake and they sucked in gaiden. I believe the next non-remake will keep Wary fighter in some form for the poor buggers. (Or I hope they do because it is the perfect buff for them.) 

[The Geek]

8 hours ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

Speaking of which, I generally tend to not have anything to do with Oni Chieftain, Malig Knight, or Basara (the former in particular has only one character who can be in it without seal shenanigans... and she sucks. I find it hard to warrant promoting someone into the other two, either - most potential Malig Knights are physically inclined (this includes Camilla, who starts off in said class), and Basara has the same problem of the units that can access it being specced such that they can only use one of its weapon types well. Oh, and the skills they have to offer are nothing special, either).

Uh... I might be wrong, but isn't Rend Heaven (the skill that level 5 Basaras get) considered the best proc skill in Fates?

[Moblin Major General]

25 minutes ago, The Geek said:

Uh... I might be wrong, but isn't Rend Heaven (the skill that level 5 Basaras get) considered the best proc skill in Fates?

Only in conjunction with Quixotic, which breaks almost all proc skills.

[Shadow Mir]

7 hours ago, Emperor Hardin said:

Most enemies in FE6 are slow Knights/Generals, Wyvern Riders/Lords, and Cavaliers/Paladins with Lances, giving a high chance for people like Geese and Gonzales to get good hits in with their axes. Fast and dodgy enemies with swords are a minority in the game.

Sea terrain is in a lot of maps in both Shadow Dragon and Mystery, crossing it is very useful, particularly because Pirates/Berserkers are much harder to hit on them.

Except they still don't have enough in the way of clear advantages to make up for axe accuracy - Geese is middling across the board and Gonzales is blind as a Zubat, which really doesn't do it for me, especially when accuracy is at a premium. And this is ignoring the competition for Hero Crests...

Fair enough, I suppose.

10 hours ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

Master of Arms - This one bothers me for a different reason. It should be a cool class. Unfortunately being stuck with E ranks in a game where weapon ranks build as slowly as Fates means they're not much of a master at all. Give them base weapon ranks of D, give them Discipline as a skill at Level 1, do something. Wasted potential.

Hey, it could've been worse - I'd hate to imagine them in FE6, where leveling up weapons is sloooooooooooow, even compared to Fates.

6 hours ago, Mackc2 said:

The levin sword isn't exactly rare and it basically makes Anna one of the most efficient units to field since she can fill the role of healer, offensive powerhouse and healer. Libra though does kinda suffer because the bolt axe is way rarer.

Only 3 copies without merchant or Spotpass shenanigans doesn't add up to "not exactly rare", if you ask me. And note that one of those happens to be right before endgame, and another is in a paralogue (specifically, Severa's paralogue). . .

4 hours ago, The Geek said:

Uh... I might be wrong, but isn't Rend Heaven (the skill that level 5 Basaras get) considered the best proc skill in Fates?

I don't buy it when Rend Heaven is hit-or-miss (good against Berserkers and little else on the physical side (most other physical classes have enough defense that Rend Heaven wouldn't be doing much better than Luna), and pretty much useless for magic units since most melee units have a big fat goose egg (or 1, which might as well be a goose egg) for their magic stat).

3 hours ago, Hylian Air Force said:

Only in conjunction with Quixotic, which breaks almost all proc skills.

Which would be significant if Quixotic wasn't a gimmicky double-edged sword, which it is.

Edited September 17, 2017 by Levant Mir Celestia

[Moblin Major General]

1 hour ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

Which would be significant if Quixotic wasn't a gimmicky double-edged sword, which it is.

It's a whole lot more useful and a lot less dangerous than Life and Death, especially if it's cancelled out by Duelist's Blow (now I want to do this with Hinata/Oboro). 

Anyway, I don't really like Soldiers/Spear Fighters, as a lot of classes that use lances can use other weapons either at base (cavaliers) or upon promotion(General, Basara).

[Shadow Mir]

50 minutes ago, Hylian Air Force said:

It's a whole lot more useful and a lot less dangerous than Life and Death, especially if it's cancelled out by Duelist's Blow (now I want to do this with Hinata/Oboro). 

Less dangerous, sure, but useful, I highly doubt it when the player clearly gets the short end of the stick (unless you're on the bad end of a breaker skill, chances are you're not seeing the full accuracy boost, which the enemy gets). And this is ignoring that this is a level 15 skill we're talking about, meaning it's even more useless because it comes too late to be relevant for long.

Edited September 17, 2017 by Levant Mir Celestia

[Interdimensional Observer]

10 hours ago, Purple Mage said:

Personally, Pegasus Knights are too fragile for me unless I'm playing FE1/2/3/11/12/15. I use Heath over Florina and Cormag over Vanessa and Tana. If they are designated to be mage killers, there are viable alternatives:

Pegasus Knights on a game-by-game basis probably go something like:

FE1- No airborne rivals (since Dracoknight is a direct upgrade), the Whitewings come late, I heard the Dragon Whip to promote them comes late, and Caeda has damage issues. But they're okay overall.

FE2- Broken on Celica's side, not so much on Alm's, but Clair can be a good investment.

FE3- Book 1 is the same as FE1 for the most part, Book 2, they're (Palla and Catria) goddesses.

FE4- The only fliers you get barring the late coming and eh Altena (Gae Bolg is heavy, and she has poor Res, which is about to become an important stat) in Gen 2, so they have great exclusive utility in this. Femina is awful, but Erinys and Fee do wonderfully with the Brave Lance and Fee with a magic daddy can swing a magic sword well too, Claud even lets her use nice staffs like Physic.

FE5- The first game where we have real Pegasus vs. Wyvern competition. Karin has availability and I heard she can be good with a little investment like Wrath (I know, everyone like Wrath), and I like dismounting helps her right? I never hear much of Misha, but her stats don't look too bad, and both Pegs have good Magic, I don't know how much that resistance helps though. On the Wyvern side, Deen is an outdoors monster with his own personal lance that rocks, and Eda is a total Est. Overall- I'd guess they're roughly equal here?

FE6- Shanna and Thite have availability over Melady, but otherwise Melady trashes them. Zeiss is an Est who I'm guessing is generally inferior to the Pegs. Juno? A waste of unit space restricted to being a ferrybot. Winner- Melady.

FE7- The Pegs are fragile, and even with a Slim Lance I found their avoid vs. Wyverns to be dangerously close to 50%, they butcher magic users though and Florina is still the best use of the Lyn Mode Robe and Ring. Heath comes late, very underleveled, and despite his better Con being a Wyvern, it isn't enough to mitigate AS loss from some common weapons and he has doubling issues. This is accompanied by not having all that tanky a Defense stat, even if it is better than the Pegs. He's also hurt by so many desert mages in a chapter you'd want to field him in, and later NoF's plentiful status staffs and Sonia's Bolting. Vaida comes just too late. Winner- Pegasus Knights.

FE8- Vanessa's Str is shoddy, Tana is an amazing growth unit who needs babying, Syrene is underleveled. Cormag is very nice, but comes late on Eirika's route. Winner- Pegs.

FE9- Winner- Pegs. Marcia > Jill until probably the lategame, and Tanith > Haar for sure. This said, field them all! Jill is only numero tres on the typical tier list, thats not bad in the least. The real winner- all fliers with a mount!

FE10- Winner- Wyverns. Haar and Jill rock, both have good availability, the former chops heads from beginning to end, Jill does so once invested. The Pegs are hamstringed by bad availability and meh units in Sigrun and Tanith, while Elincia does need some babying in P4 and Marcia could use some too. Caps-wise they're still good though.

FE11- Winner- the Wing Spear! More seriously, the classes were merged once again, but with the addition of Falcoknight. On the higher difficulties, the extra 2 Spd of Falco might make the difference, but on the lower ones, Draco wins out. I'd call this a Draco win since Elysian Whips are online only, but the classes are balanced-ish.

FE12- Same deal as FE11, except now you get Elysian Whips normally.

FE13- Winner- Pegs, if only because Dark Flier can use Magic and Cordelia and Sumia have availability over Cherche- but WR!Panne exists I admit. So it's close to a draw (GF can be used with any class).

FE14- Wyverns for sure. Beruka, though bad statistically, still outdoes the pitiful Subaki. Percy > Caeldori and Shigure. And Camilla > Hinoka (but they both rock). Reina is an interesting Jagen though- rather balanced for a change of pace. Malig and Lord outdo Kinshi and Falco. I should add that Pegs can't be good anti-mages in this game since magic is 1-2 range and Javelins can't double.

FE15- Falconknights lost their brokeness from FE2, but they're still very helpful for Celica's late Act 3 and Act 4. Clair is once again a worthwhile serious investment for Alm's route, but sadly Faye isn't too special as one. Hard Mode keeps them fairly balanced with enemy bow users having bows. DFs beat them out as the best class.

[Emperor Hardin]

7 hours ago, Mackc2 said:

I think that more has to do with SoV being a faithful Gaiden remake and they sucked in gaiden. I believe the next non-remake will keep Wary fighter in some form for the poor buggers. (Or I hope they do because it is the perfect buff for them.) 

SOV did a lot of changes like making Dread Fighters halve all magic damage or adding anti armor weapons.

The Baron characters were ok in the original and the remake nerfed them even more.

Armored units having more weapons then most other classes and good resistance didn't stick nor did the nerfs to Cavalry, so I'm doubtful wary fighter will.

4 hours ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

Except they still don't have enough in the way of clear advantages to make up for axe accuracy - Geese is middling across the board and Gonzales is blind as a Zubat, which really doesn't do it for me, especially when accuracy is at a premium. And this is ignoring the competition for Hero Crests...

30% critical is absurd and most enemies aren't going to be dodging anyhow. Geese's skill isn't bad and there's little completion for secret books. There is a reason they are high on tier lists.

20 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

FE5- The first game where we have real Pegasus vs. Wyvern competition. Karin has availability and I heard she can be good with a little investment like Wrath (I know, everyone like Wrath), and I like dismounting helps her right? I never hear much of Misha, but her stats don't look too bad, and both Pegs have good Magic, I don't know how much that resistance helps though. On the Wyvern side, Deen is an outdoors monster with his own personal lance that rocks, and Eda is a total Est. Overall- I'd guess they're roughly equal here?

Dean is great, but Eda is terrible outside of being used as a taxi in certain chapters. Her constitution is so low she gets slowed by lances.

Edited September 17, 2017 by Emperor Hardin

[Shadow Mir]

10 minutes ago, Emperor Hardin said:

30% critical is absurd and most enemies aren't going to be dodging anyhow. Geese's skill isn't bad and there's little completion for secret books. There is a reason they are high on tier lists.

I'd care if they could actually hit worth a damn, but since they can't, pfft! Also, there's 2 secret books in the whole game, and one of them is route-exclusive, so that doesn't help much. On the subject of tier lists, there's this one, where both of them happen to languish in the lower tiers.

Edited September 17, 2017 by Levant Mir Celestia

[Emperor Hardin]

4 minutes ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

I'd care if they could actually hit worth a damn, but since they can't, pfft! On the subject of tier lists, there's this one, where both of them happen to languish in the lower tiers.

They can, because most enemies are slow Knights and Wyverns with Lances.

Here's one where Gonzales is high. And another.

He also gets hard mode bonuses and a very high axe rank in hard mode/certain routes.

Edited September 17, 2017 by Emperor Hardin

[Shadow Mir]

1 minute ago, Emperor Hardin said:

They can, because most enemies are slow Knights and Wyverns with Lances.

Here's one where Gonzales is high.

>2009

Nice try. Also, Knights are pretty uncommon after the earlygame.

Edited September 17, 2017 by Levant Mir Celestia

[Emperor Hardin]

1 minute ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

>2009

Nice try.

The one you got was based off fan votes, so yeah.

2014 tier list

Edited September 17, 2017 by Emperor Hardin

[Shadow Mir]

6 minutes ago, Emperor Hardin said:

The one you got was based off fan votes, so yeah.

2014 tier list

Perhaps, but it was more recent than any of the others you posted.

8 minutes ago, Emperor Hardin said:

He also gets hard mode bonuses and a very high axe rank in hard mode/certain routes.

Guess what? So does the enemy, meaning Gonzales's performance only sees marginal improvement overall. And I see you still failed to address Hero Crest competition.

Edited September 17, 2017 by Levant Mir Celestia

[Emperor Hardin]

3 minutes ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

Perhaps, but it was more recent than any of the others you posted.

Guess what? So does the enemy, meaning Gonzales's performance only sees marginal improvement overall.

2014 isn't a long time ago.

No, he sees a vast improvement based on fan consensus. Bases much higher then his actual level is nothing to sneeze at.

Edited September 17, 2017 by Emperor Hardin

[Shadow Mir]

9 minutes ago, Emperor Hardin said:

2014 isn't a long time ago.

No, he sees a vast improvement based on fan consensus. Bases much higher then his actual level is nothing to sneeze at.

To me, it is. After all, opinions change as time passes.

Except for the part where he's still not that accurate, and he's unrescuable because he's too big, especially after promotion, which means he has to get everywhere on his own two feet... in Horse Emblem. Have fun with that!

[Emperor Hardin]

8 minutes ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

To me, it is. After all, opinions change as time passes.

Except for the part where he's still not that accurate, and he's unrescuable because he's too big, especially after promotion, which means he has to get everywhere on his own two feet... in Horse Emblem. Have fun with that!

Thats the best expert poll we have.

Remember most enemies in FE6 suck at dodging and use Lances.

Critical emblem is a better term for FE6.

[Von Ithipathachai]

Celestia, Hardin, buddies.  I think we can all figure out that you're not going to make the other person budge no matter what you say.

Now will you guys please stop derailing the thread?  If you'd like to argue about Gonzalez's viability, you can do it anywhere else but here.

[Emperor Hardin]

5 minutes ago, Von Ithipathachai said:

Celestia, Hardin, buddies.  I think we can all figure out that you're not going to make the other person budge no matter what you say.

Now will you guys please stop derailing the thread?  If you'd like to argue about Gonzalez's viability, you can do it anywhere else but here.

Sure, I don't really want to do a FE6 tier discussion anyhow.

Edited September 17, 2017 by Emperor Hardin

[Nanima]

No class is without it's uses, but for me it's Fighters who have the least. I just despise the lack of accuracy. Hitting something reliably is one of my highest priorities in any unit, so these guys aren't doing themselves favours by missing 50% of the time.