The Class You Hate the Most

[Emperor Hardin]

4 minutes ago, Nanima said:

No class is without it's uses, but for me it's Fighters who have the least. I just despise the lack of accuracy. Hitting something reliably is one of my highest priorities in any unit, so these guys aren't doing themselves favours by missing 50% of the time.

Have you ever played FE5 or TS? In those games, Fighters have high accuracy.

I think Fighters need to have noticeably higher skill if they are too compete with Pirates. As it is, Pirates have much higher speed, but Fighters only have slightly higher, but still bad skill.

[Nanima]

10 minutes ago, Emperor Hardin said:

Have you ever played FE5 or TS? In those games, Fighters have high accuracy.

I think Fighters need to have noticeably higher skill if they are too compete with Pirates. As it is, Pirates have much higher speed, but Fighters only have slightly higher, but still bad skill.

I have not, but that does sound pretty op (unless their defence drawback is more pronounced there?). 

Well, if Pirates return at some point, that would certainly be a good way to go.

[Emperor Hardin]

7 minutes ago, Nanima said:

I have not, but that does sound pretty op (unless their defence drawback is more pronounced there?). 

Well, if Pirates return at some point, that would certainly be a good way to go.

In FE5, they promote to the Hero class. Othin/Orsin is the first good character to use an axe, rather then inspite of using an axe. He is very OP.

in Tearring Saga, they promote to Warrior which is very fast and skillful, basically an Axe wielding Swordmaster with higher strength, HP, and defense in exchange for slightly lower speed and lower skill. They are by far the best axe class and one of the best infantry classes in the game. Though of the two you get, one, the guy above is totally better then the other.

I'm also counting Brigands/Barbarians as pirates. I like Berserkers and Warriors existing alongside each other, but think they could be more balanced. Warriors need to be in more games where bows are good.

[Nanima]

That's a beautiful skill stat right there. Promoting Fighters into Warriors and Heroes has always been the way to go for me whenever I bothered using one. Berseker is however the more recommended class usually and I just don't see the appeal when they miss the mark so often.

Edited September 17, 2017 by Nanima

[Emperor Hardin]

7 minutes ago, Nanima said:

That's a beautiful skill stat right there. Promoting Fighters into Warriors and Heroes has always been the way to go for me whenever I bothered using one. Berseker is however the more recommended class usually and I just don't see the appeal when they miss the mark so often.

Definitely a great stat spread.

Warriors need to stand out more. As it is, they are much slower then Berserkers, barely more accurate, and have bows but mostly in games where Bows are a meh weapon type.

[Strawman]

I never was a myrmidon fan. Always preferred mercenaries for swords. Don't like the squishy units. 

[Von Ithipathachai]

5 minutes ago, Emperor Hardin said:

Definitely a great stat spread.

Warriors need to stand out more. As it is, they are much slower then Berserkers, barely more accurate, and have bows but mostly in games where Bows are a meh weapon type.

I would personally make them tankier.  I think that if Warriors come back in FE16, they should be made more like Oni Chieftains as more defense-oriented alternatives to Berserkers.

[Gamer1234556]

In FE5, 9, 10 and 11, Axe users are generally much more fun to use because of how insanely overpowered there are, with enough speed and defense to assist their high attack and HP along the lack of accuracy issues that plagued them in the GBA games. I had quite the fun of using Barst to crush my opponents units with his high attack and speed in Shadow Dragon as fighters can hit more accurately there.

[Shadow Mir]

2 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Malig and Lord outdo Kinshi and Falco.

I'm not seeing how Malig Knight's better than either of the Pegasus promotions when it doesn't have awe-inspiring skills to warrant having anything to do with it... Hell, it's saying something that Camilla, who starts off as a Malig Knight, is better off reclassed to Wyvern Lord immediately.

[Interdimensional Observer]

3 hours ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

I'm not seeing how Malig Knight's better than either of the Pegasus promotions when it doesn't have awe-inspiring skills to warrant having anything to do with it... Hell, it's saying something that Camilla, who starts off as a Malig Knight, is better off reclassed to Wyvern Lord immediately.

Savage Blow is certainly much better than Air Superiority (Lunge makes it rather easy to affect multiple enemies), and Trample crushes Warding Blow. Rally Speed is better I concede, and Amaterasu, well I think it's a skill that'd be more appreciated earlier in the game when you don't have so many healers, not to call it bad as is. 

And as I said, Camilla can work as a Bolt Axe unit while a Malig Knight- CQ hands you plenty of Spirit Dust and the Bolt Axe is stronger than any tome but Ginnungagap, it offers Camilla a better enemy phase than a Hand Axe would and lets her avoid eating melee physical attacks on the player phase. Plus Savage Blow is worth keeping Camilla in MK for a few levels, if she needs those WL stat points ASAP so badly, I shudder to think how the rest of the CQ cast is faring.

Plus I guess Elise could go MK if you don't have access to Ebon Wings, her Magic and Speed are amazing regardless and she's already fragile so the bow weakness isn't changing her uses that much. Felicia/Jakob/Shura can take over the healing job- although the latter two will be weaker at Freezing, Enfeebling and Entrapping (but not really healing given the heal formula being what it is).

Outside of these two characters, I agree there aren't any easy and good contenders for the class.

[Emperor Hardin]

4 hours ago, Von Ithipathachai said:

I would personally make them tankier.  I think that if Warriors come back in FE16, they should be made more like Oni Chieftains as more defense-oriented alternatives to Berserkers.

They had a good defense cap in the DS remakes despite a low base, thing is only Sedgar can reach it in the original, while there are few more in the remake, its still a small number.

[Von Ithipathachai]

5 minutes ago, Emperor Hardin said:

They had a good defense cap in the DS remakes despite a low base, thing is only Sedgar can reach it in the original, while there are few more in the remake, its still a small number.

Well, if Berserkers were able to get a little more base Skill in Fates, maybe Warriors can get more base Defense and/or Resistance in FE Switch.  (I can only hope.)

[Shadow Mir]

54 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Savage Blow is certainly much better than Air Superiority (Lunge makes it rather easy to affect multiple enemies), and Trample crushes Warding Blow. Rally Speed is better I concede, and Amaterasu, well I think it's a skill that'd be more appreciated earlier in the game when you don't have so many healers, not to call it bad as is. 

And as I said, Camilla can work as a Bolt Axe unit while a Malig Knight- CQ hands you plenty of Spirit Dust and the Bolt Axe is stronger than any tome but Ginnungagap, it offers Camilla a better enemy phase than a Hand Axe would and lets her avoid eating melee physical attacks on the player phase. Plus Savage Blow is worth keeping Camilla in MK for a few levels, if she needs those WL stat points ASAP so badly, I shudder to think how the rest of the CQ cast is faring.

Plus I guess Elise could go MK if you don't have access to Ebon Wings, her Magic and Speed are amazing regardless and she's already fragile so the bow weakness isn't changing her uses that much. Felicia/Jakob/Shura can take over the healing job- although the latter two will be weaker at Freezing, Enfeebling and Entrapping (but not really healing given the heal formula being what it is).

Outside of these two characters, I agree there aren't any easy and good contenders for the class.

To be frank, Savage Blow comes off as amazing on paper, but in actual practice, I almost never affect a number of enemies that's actually worth mentioning, because it'd likely be suicidal - no thank you (and I don't think Lunge helps much in that aspect since IIRC, Savage Blow does damage before swapping positions). Also, I find that Camilla practically needs Veteran Intuition, because she's critical bait otherwise. Trample, I'd care about were it not for being a level 15 skill, and thus coming too late to be relevant for long.

Frankly, I find spirit dusts to be the least useful stat booster since outside of gimmicky child setups, I just leave them to gather dust in the convoy. And I'd much rather have Rally Defence ASAP (and also have time to work on lance rank) than stay in MK just for a skill that's not going to be doing much of anything Poison Strike couldn't do.

I never really saw the appeal of reclassing Elise, primarily since unless you wait until she promotes, she's nearly useless.

Edited September 18, 2017 by Levant Mir Celestia

[Interdimensional Observer]

5 minutes ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

Also, I find that Camilla practically needs Veteran Intuition, because she's critical bait otherwise. Trample, I'd care about were it not for being a level 15 skill, and thus coming too late to be relevant for long.

Frankly, I find spirit dusts to be the least useful stat booster since outside of gimmicky child setups, I just leave them to gather dust in the convoy. And I'd much rather have Rally Defence ASAP than stay in MK and pick up a skill that's not going to be doing much of anything Poison Strike couldn't do.

You'd get Rally Defense one level later if waited for Savage Blow- not all that long. And leaving a stat booster sitting around is less useful than giving it to even the worst of units or selling it. As for Trample, I only brought that up b/c you said that Malig had worse skills than Falco and Kinshi, and promoted classes only have two skills.

As for Veteran Intuition- I think you're being a little too obsessed with crit evasion- Camilla isn't Arthur. With the reclass to WL you're suggesting, Camilla has 15 Luck at base, 21 by level 20. Add the +4 of Luck Tonics, and thats 9 to 12 crit evade, which is less than the 17 of Effie or Laslow I admit, but it isn't gigantic. Sure she might have few visible crit points against her, but the classes that would likely have that are: SM (she'll live if she has the Dual Club equipped), Master Ninjas (they can't ORKO her even with a crit), Spear Masters (with WTA she can live), and Snipers (which shouldn't ever be attacking her being she's a flier).

How much crit evade is enough for you? Is it 30 or bust? Sure a 5% crit will happen once in a while (Yukimura did it actually at the end of a Fort Jinya fight, forcing me to reset the entire battle), but I wouldn't consider it to be such a threat that I run from every encounter with a unit that has visible crit on one of mine. If it happens, swear and reset and move on- it was a fluke and shouldn't happen again for a long while.

[Florina's #1 Fan]

4 hours ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

I'm not seeing how Malig Knight's better than either of the Pegasus promotions when it doesn't have awe-inspiring skills to warrant having anything to do with it... Hell, it's saying something that Camilla, who starts off as a Malig Knight, is better off reclassed to Wyvern Lord immediately.

The only positive to Malig Knights that I see in my playthrough is that they give a tiny bit more of a resistance growth to my Percy and Shiro, who are my Wyverns in Revelations. Camilla!Shiro still prefers Wyvern Lord over Malig, but Percy really doesn't suffer too much luck-wise from being a Malig Knight because of his really nice luck growth (although he shouldn't stay there because his luck modifier is negative). I agree for the most part, though, that MK's are just another weak hybrid class that doesn't work that well as an end class at all, and Camilla definitely should be reclassed ASAP to Wyvern Lord.

[YingofDarkness]

I know this has been said before but the Knights and General classes low movement make me never want to field them even though I like using them in the chapter they are introduced. I also loved Lukas and Forsyth in Echoes but if they hadn't been fielded automatically then I would have never actually gotten a chance to experience their characters because they would have just been warming the bench along with Phyton.

[Shadow Mir]

2 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

You'd get Rally Defense one level later if waited for Savage Blow- not all that long. And leaving a stat booster sitting around is less useful than giving it to even the worst of units or selling it. As for Trample, I only brought that up b/c you said that Malig had worse skills than Falco and Kinshi, and promoted classes only have two skills.

As for Veteran Intuition- I think you're being a little too obsessed with crit evasion- Camilla isn't Arthur. With the reclass to WL you're suggesting, Camilla has 15 Luck at base, 21 by level 20. Add the +4 of Luck Tonics, and thats 9 to 12 crit evade, which is less than the 17 of Effie or Laslow I admit, but it isn't gigantic. Sure she might have few visible crit points against her, but the classes that would likely have that are: SM (she'll live if she has the Dual Club equipped), Master Ninjas (they can't ORKO her even with a crit), Spear Masters (with WTA she can live), and Snipers (which shouldn't ever be attacking her being she's a flier).

How much crit evade is enough for you? Is it 30 or bust? Sure a 5% crit will happen once in a while (Yukimura did it actually at the end of a Fort Jinya fight, forcing me to reset the entire battle), but I wouldn't consider it to be such a threat that I run from every encounter with a unit that has visible crit on one of mine. If it happens, swear and reset and move on- it was a fluke and shouldn't happen again for a long while.

Except Savage Blow is N.W.I. - just how often can you expect to hit a notable number of enemy units without making a dumb and/or suicidal move??? Also, I can't help being indecisive when it comes to stat boosters.

Sure, her crit evade isn't Arthur level bad, but it's still bad enough that I have to worry about grunts getting critical hits in.

I'd say "enough that you're not facing crit chances from everything under the sun", usually. Also, I wouldn't willingly put myself in a position where I could potentially lose automatically when I'm close to winning.

[henrymidfields]

Berserkers/Warriors for the same reason some people previously stated. At least Swordmasters:

• have high accuracy (alongside killer/silver weapons and/or customization) to make up for their low attack. and,
• depending on the game, high to nigh-guaranteed dodge, to make up for their lower attack power and defense. (Fir was the best example in my playthroughs. On the other hand, Navarre was a pathetic exception.)

All of my warriors class changed to Hero where I could, or permanently benched where I couldn't, except for Sacred Stones, where it didn't matter either way.

Edited September 18, 2017 by henrymidfields

[Michelaar]

Dark Knights. Why can they not use Dark Magic? I don't hate it, but it's my least favoured class.

[Von Ithipathachai]

32 minutes ago, Michelaar said:

Dark Knights. Why can they not use Dark Magic? I don't hate it, but it's my least favoured class.

Honestly, they might as well have just called them Mage Knights.

[Metal Flash]

Altough I wouldn`t say I HATE these classes, they are probably my least favourites.

 -Griffon Rider: A poor attempt at reaching a middle-ground between Wyvern Lords and Falcon Knights. I think it should be in it`s own class tree, rather than be tacked on the Wyvern Rider one. Hell, I`ve seen it done AND have come up with my own ideas.

-Kinshi Knight: Cool concept, exceution not to my liking. I just felt that Reina and Hinoka were the only GOOD Kinshi Knights in Birthright and never saw a reason to make Takumi or Setsuna (when I forced myself to use her) that over a Sniper.

-  Dark Knight: Like with Kinshi Knight, I like the concept, (especially the design), but found it lacking in action. I felt that none of the characters who could become Dark Knights ever took advantage of the higher strength (I mean, there is rarely a reason for Leo to NOT use the Brynhildr) and they suffer from the lower magic cap. Plus, they give up their normal movement in desert maps and gain a weakness to beastkillers. Shame, since I LOVE the design of the armor, now all they do is make me want Mage Knights in more games.

 -Baron: Specifically the Geneology of the Holy War ones, fuck Great Shield. And the enemy`s ability to change to a ranged weapon even if it isn`t equipped doesn`t help either (the same could be said for Arvis` Emperor class). The one in Echoes is okay, I wouldn`t mind seeing it return.

 -Great Knight (Awakening, not the Axe Paladins in FE4 and FE10): To me, it felt like a worse Marshall. The extra movement is nice, but the double weaknesses doesn`t help it. Fredrick and Stahl are the only Great Knights I`ve found work well. So yeah, I want Marshalls back.

[Von Ithipathachai]

54 minutes ago, Metal Flash said:

-Dark Knight: ...I felt that none of the characters who could become Dark Knights ever took advantage of the higher strength (I mean, there is rarely a reason for Leo to NOT use the Brynhildr) and they suffer from the lower magic cap....

 -Baron: Specifically the Geneology of the Holy War ones, fuck Great Shield. And the enemy`s ability to change to a ranged weapon even if it isn`t equipped doesn`t help either (the same could be said for Arvis` Emperor class). The one in Echoes is okay, I wouldn`t mind seeing it return.

I dunno, from my experience Odin makes a great Dark Knight, since he can actually put his high Strength for a Tome user to good use and his Magic growth is rather iffy anyway.  Then again, this is mostly in Revelation where he can have ample time to grind his Sword Rank up.

As for Barons, I'd love to see them come back as a new alternate promotion for Knights that wields Lances and Tomes, while Great Knights should lose their anti-Armor weakness and their Swords to balance that out.

[Shadow Mir]

2 hours ago, Metal Flash said:

-Great Knight (Awakening, not the Axe Paladins in FE4 and FE10): To me, it felt like a worse Marshall. The extra movement is nice, but the double weaknesses doesn`t help it. Fredrick and Stahl are the only Great Knights I`ve found work well. So yeah, I want Marshalls back.

No mention of Sacred Stones, where they instead were glorified foot units with two weaknesses? Because that's the incarnation of Great Knight I dislike.

Edited September 18, 2017 by Levant Mir Celestia

[Metal Flash]

4 hours ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

No mention of Sacred Stones, where they instead were glorified foot units with two weaknesses? Because that's the incarnation of Great Knight I dislike.

I complety forgot Great Knights were in Sacred Stones. But yeah, they suck there.

5 hours ago, Von Ithipathachai said:

I dunno, from my experience Odin makes a great Dark Knight, since he can actually put his high Strength for a Tome user to good use and his Magic growth is rather iffy anyway.  Then again, this is mostly in Revelation where he can have ample time to grind his Sword Rank up.

It`s been a while since I last played Fates and I never bothered to get Revelations, so I don`t remember. Besides, I usually made Odin a Grandmaster on my playthroughts.

[Ether]

Armour Knights, easily. Overkill defenses in exchange for piss poor offense is already a losing combination, and it doesn't even matter because after a few turns, your knight is a whole turn of movement behind your infantry, let alone cavalry or flying units. Easily the worst class for most of the series.

Wrt Great Knights, at least they aren't generals. They can keep up, and double weakness doesn't mean much when effective weapons are scarce as is, and won't kill you because you're in a defensive class with WTA to curb their effects. Great Knight is no paladin, but if you're an armour that can turn into a GK, better that than general pretty much every time.