Florina's #1 Fan

The Class You Hate the Most

Recommended Posts

So, after finding so many who disliked Archers for their inability to counterattack on enemy phase (I love them anyway), I was curious to see what class you dislike the most, and if you want, what you would change about it to balance it with other classes.

For me, that class would be Strategists. Valkyries I was okay with, I never loved them, and in Awakening, I always reclassed Maribelle. But I specifically hate Strategists, the unisex Valkyries from Fates. They just can't hit anything, which is frustrating because the payoff for training a healer is usually, upon promotion, they can participate in combat effectively, albeit without much security. It isn't just Elise, who I always bench because her skill growth is so bad, but I didn't want Leo in Dark Knight or Sorcerer, both of which also can't hit anything, so I tried him in Strategist. Nope. Still bad. He has utility as a healer, which is nice, but considering that in Revelations, Sakura was my go-to healer, that wasn't too helpful. Other times I tried Strategist included: Felicia (bad), Saizo (not bad, but much better as a butler, and awful caps held him back), Niles (never again), and Sakura (much better as a priestess). And going back to Awakening, I also tried Strategist Maribelle, but I hated it, because every single one of her caps was worse as a Valkyrie (with the exception of everyone's favorite stat, Luck) in comparison to Dark Flier, which suited her much better, because it was an offensive class and was simply better. 

To fix it, I would make them durable. There aren't any magic classes in Fates that can take a hit. Dark Knights are the closest, but really, they just have an HP cushion. A mounted unit should have better defenses than wet tissues, and should also be a little less concentrated on resistance because, it's clear that, if other mounted units are any indicator, horses have poor resistance :\ Strategists, and even Troubadours, could even bring back light magic, which would be awesome, and with their high constitution (although in Fates/Awakening that isn't a thing :dry: ) and possibly strength (again, mounted class) they would have no issue with carrying those tomes. With a lower magic stat in comparison to clerics, they wouldn't overshadow the cleric's supportive role instantaneously, either (Priscilla vs. Serra and Maribelle vs. Lissa, anyone) and with poor resistance, they could be less of a resistance sponge and more of a physical soaking magic class, something which is very rare, even though newer games are making it clear that magic will no longer be the go-to for damage because more and more enemies are given a resistance stat, and therefore not all magic units should be glass cannons.

What class do you dislike and how would you make that class better?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Knights. Their main issue is that they fall behind very easily and their strong defenses don't really make up for their flaws. Just have them move at least 6 spaces like mostly everybody else. Knights (well, Generals) should also have the added ability of halving damage from swords, axes, lances, and bows. Baron (third-tier Knights) did halve damage from bows in SoV but it didn't do much because Barons were locked to 4 mov. That and enemy Archers weren't exactly threatening, even on Hard.

I also don't like the Griffon Rider, but that just comes from it being a forgettable Class with no real advantages. All it really does is just give the flier an extra weakness. I think Griffon Riders would benefit from being a flying version of the Master of Arms. Basically, a flier with access to all three weapons of the weapon triangle.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Armagon said:

Knights. Their main issue is that they fall behind very easily and their strong defenses don't really make up for their flaws. Just have them move at least 6 spaces like mostly everybody else. Knights (well, Generals) should also have the added ability of halving damage from swords, axes, lances, and bows. Baron (third-tier Knights) did halve damage from bows in SoV but it didn't do much because Barons were locked to 4 mov. That and enemy Archers weren't exactly threatening, even on Hard.

On a ROM hack I really like, The Crimson Arm, Knights can use bows, which at least sort of remedies the movement issue, having a ranged weapon and being effective against fliers, who can't put a scratch on them anyway. I agree with the movement issue, though, Valbar was a pain to position at a chokepoint when it took him so long to get there.

11 minutes ago, Armagon said:

I also don't like the Griffon Rider, but that just comes from it being a forgettable Class with no real advantages. All it really does is just give the flier an extra weakness. I think Griffon Riders would benefit from being a flying version of the Master of Arms. Basically, a flier with access to all three weapons of the weapon triangle.

I reclassed a lot of units to Griffon Rider, but only because of Deliverer. On my FE concept blog, I set up Griffon Riders as like airborne Fighters, having high HP, good strength, the highest speed of the flier classes, awful defense and resistance, and weaknesses that both beasts and fliers have. However, I think not having an additional weapon makes them a little harder to use, because they can't counter their weapon triangle weakness, and they additionally have many weapons that are effective against them. This would make them a risky class to use, just like other weapon-locked classes, like Berserkers.

In Awakening, though, they are just worse Wyvern Lords. An airborne Master of Arms would be very interesting, actually.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't really hate any particular class, but if I had to pick a least favorite based on stats alone, it would have to be Griffon Riders, for being a class with an interesting premise and bad execution as an Axe-locked class with mediocre overall stats and no Critical bonus.  Really, their only redeeming qualities seem to be as utility units with high Movement.  The tiny little axes they wield in their class portraits also bother me for some reason.

If we're not talking about stats, then my least favorite class would have to be Paladin, just because I find most horse units in general boring.  Another reason why I'm not fond of Genealogy of the Holy War.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There are a few I don't really like/have issues with:

  • Armor Knight: I'd be fine with them if they didn't have low mobility tacked onto them.  I mean, I get that they're supposed to be slow and all, but given that they're supposed to be front line troops, it seems senseless to make them less mobile than mages and healers.  And make them much more durable than other classes.
  • Archers: I get the sentiment behind giving them two-range exclusivity, but that doesn't mean it makes any sense.  Unless all archers are using longbows, there's no reason they shouldn't be able to attack from short range unless they're just really bad archers, and the archers of history as well as modern day professional archers prove my point.
  • Cleric: This is specifically a thing that started with the GBA/Jugdral games, but what reason do I have to use foot healers when I have straight up mounted healers?  Give me more of a reason to use them than Miracle and slightly different stats, and maybe I'll give them a fairer shake.  Who am I kidding; Serra is reason enough to pick this class, at least in FE7.
  • Villager: It's less that I hate the concept behind this class and more that I wish more was done with it.  Sort of like with the trainee classes of Sacred Stones or the villager class of Echoes/Gaiden (except without the unnecessary gender exclusivity of certain classes).  I don't just want one or two paths to follow with them.  Also, their balancing could probably be worked on; it should be that they're difficult to raise up, but when you do it's more rewarding.  I shouldn't be getting just another cavalier/armor knight or whatever.  Or if I am, then make more units start in these classes.
  • Dread Fighter: These bastards have no reason to be as good as they are, yet they seem to always remain a disgustingly superior class.  They aren't nearly as bad in the games where they're DLC, but you might as well not choose any other class in the game they come from or its remake.  At least take away that dumb DF loop.
  • Beasts/Manaketes: Why can't they use weapons just for once?  Corrin's the only manakete who does.  I dunno, I just like the idea of beast people wielding spears n' stuff when they aren't transformed, mostly because of the concept art of VC Darcsens before they became Darcsens (beast people with friggin' guns, you guys).  Also, I wish more was done to differentiate the different beast classes in Fates like they did in the Tellius games.
  • Lightning Lobster: Take that damn sword away from him before he nukes the meta with it.
Edited by Ertrick36

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Florina's #1 Fan said:

On a ROM hack I really like, The Crimson Arm, Knights can use bows, which at least sort of remedies the movement issue, having a ranged weapon and being effective against fliers, who can't put a scratch on them anyway.

Fun fact: Knights (well, Generals actually) can use bows in the Jugdral games and the Archanea remakes. However, in Genealogy of the Holy War, Generals still suck because it's FE4 a.k.a the game where only mounted units matter. They can also use bows in FE5 but i have no idea if they are good or not. As for Generals using bows in the Archanea remakes, that's probably where the only games where they are actually good.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Ertrick36 said:

Lightning Lobster: Take that damn sword away from him before he nukes the meta with it.

But... without the lightning sword... he's nothing but a regular lobster.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Armagon said:

Fun fact: Knights (well, Generals actually) can use bows in the Jugdral games and the Archanea remakes. However, in Genealogy of the Holy War, Generals still suck because it's FE4 a.k.a the game where only mounted units matter. They can also use bows in FE5 but i have no idea if they are good or not. As for Generals using bows in the Archanea remakes, that's probably where the only games where they are actually good.

I usually just feed boots to knight units. That's what I did with Wendy in FE6, because I really liked her and she couldn't go very far without a boost. The other pair I had I gave to Thany because in that one desert level near Arcadia, I forgot to pick up an object in the sand all the way in the bottom left corner of the map, and you had to do that mission in a certain number of turns to go to the legendary weapon paralogue, so I got Thany to drop Chad over there through a convoluted three or four turns of Ellen warping, using boots, rescuing, and counting movement ranges. It was a nightmare, but I was not doing that level again.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I really, really dislike Cavaliers. High movement is nice and all, but I never got much use out of any of them. In fact, they become a liabilty as soon as the first Flier joins my teams.

To list off:
- They usually have middling stats, growths as well as caps, making them the best example of Jack of all trades, master of none. I prefer more specialized units that either focus on offence or defence. The middle ground might be nice for a time, but especially later down the line, you need better damage output or sponging, both of which Cavaliers really can't provide.

- They sit on horseback. While I do love horses - I think they are beautiful animals and really friendly - gameplay-wise, I find that being on a horse brings many disadvantages that I can't just overlook. First off, they are weak to Ridersbanes or Beastslayers. That's one more weapon-type you have to be careful of besides the weapon triangle. One hit from one of these, and you can kiss your Cavalier goodbye. Second, they are hampered by terrain effects. They can't cross mountains, they are useless in a forest, desert and in some games, buildings as well.

- Fliers can do everything they do, but much better. While weak to bows, Pegasus Knights and Wyvern Riders are not hampered by terrain, have similarly great movement range and a much better stat-spread with the Pegasi focusing a lot on Speed and Resistance, something Cavs don't have, while the Wyverns are basically flying Armor Knights, with high Strength and Defence, while still maintaining good Skill and a good enough Speed to not get doubled by everything that moves. 

6 minutes ago, Ertrick36 said:
  • Lightning Lobster: Take that damn sword away from him before he nukes the meta with it.

Obligatory 'Ryoma is overrated and can't solo shit' post.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Florina's #1 Fan said:

I usually just feed boots to knight units. That's what I did with Wendy in FE6, because I really liked her and she couldn't go very far without a boost. The other pair I had I gave to Thany because in that one desert level near Arcadia, I forgot to pick up an object in the sand all the way in the bottom left corner of the map, and you had to do that mission in a certain number of turns to go to the legendary weapon paralogue, so I got Thany to drop Chad over there through a convoluted three or four turns of Ellen warping, using boots, rescuing, and counting movement ranges. It was a nightmare, but I was not doing that level again.

Honestly I always just give it to the Elffin or Larum, it makes both the chapter and the rest of the game so much easier.

Anyways, I've always disliked Armor Knights, both for being far behind others on attacking maps and usually being statistically bad. I've only really used them in the Archanea games and Fates, otherwise I tend not to go near them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Infantry axe users in general. They have good HP and Strength, but most of them tend to be lacking everywhere else. Needless to say, that's NOT a recipe for a good unit. Most infantry axe users tend to be horrid as units, too. *glares at Arthur, Charlotte, Rinkah, Dorcas, Bartre, etc.* But Berserkers in Fates take the cake. They suffer a crit evade penalty (which there's no reason for them to have), which makes them a high risk class, which the reward doesn't even come remotely close to offsetting (because one critical hit, and you might as well say hasta la vista to your Berserker).

Edited by Levant Mir Celestia

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If there is one class I've strongly disliked it's Pegasus Knights. They seem so frail and weak to me. They can't take bows or axe shots well and they don't do a whole lot of damage overall. I get that they are suppose to be mage killers, but how can they do their job when there are so few of them on the enemy side 90% of the time?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Florina's #1 Fan said:

I usually just feed boots to knight units. That's what I did with Wendy in FE6, because I really liked her and she couldn't go very far without a boost. The other pair I had I gave to Thany because

My anwser to that is "there was a second pair of Boots?" I knew about the pair of Boots that you could get in Arcadia; that's the one i give to Roy because his movement is a bigger issue than his late promotion imo. I had no idea there were another pair.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Armagon said:

Fun fact: Knights (well, Generals actually) can use bows in the Jugdral games and the Archanea remakes. However, in Genealogy of the Holy War, Generals still suck because it's FE4 a.k.a the game where only mounted units matter. They can also use bows in FE5 but i have no idea if they are good or not. As for Generals using bows in the Archanea remakes, that's probably where the only games where they are actually good.

Dalshin the Axe Armor Knight is useful in four sets of chapters where you have a forced small team of specific units, then he's awful. Basically he has utility, but isn't good in the long run. 

Xavier would be good and he does have an A-rank in bows, but his recruitment is the most frustrating in the franchise for various reasons. If you do get him, he does indeed make a good bow user.

Generals in the Archanea remakes are quite good for the main game. They give a unit very high defense base and very high strength/Defense growth. Unlike Echoes, their movement has been slightly buffed. Also in the DS games, many units have very high speed growth, but low defense growth, making General perfect for them. The class does lag behind due to meh stat caps, but in Shadow Dragon no one but a General will max their defense anyhow. Also in both games, reclassing is done easily at the start of a chapter without an item and can be done infinitely.

On topic, I dislike Awakening/Fates Great Knights for not making sense and making General more of a joke.

I also dislike Taguel, Awakening!Villager, and Griffon Knight.

Also not a class I specifically dislike, but Fighters/Warriors need to be stand out more from Pirates/Berserkers. They're not a bad class, but  Berserker's critical bonus often out shows their use of bows as well as Berserker's high speed vs Warrior's slightly higher skill. Too bad, they haven't been any games with Good bows.

There are games where Warriors are very good like the Tellius games, however.

Basically Warriors need to have noticeably better skill and maybe defense then Berserkers, they also need to be in the Fire Emblem games where Bows are a good weapon type.

Edited by Emperor Hardin

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
39 minutes ago, ChaoticHoundoom said:

If there is one class I've strongly disliked it's Pegasus Knights. They seem so frail and weak to me. They can't take bows or axe shots well and they don't do a whole lot of damage overall. I get that they are suppose to be mage killers, but how can they do their job when there are so few of them on the enemy side 90% of the time?

Damn, someone beat me to it!

Also, tier one healers, as they are a right pain in the arse to train up, in comparison to units that can actually attack.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Emperor Hardin said:

Xavier would be good and he does have an A-rank in bows, but his recruitment is the most frustrating in the franchise for various reasons

Right, can someone explain this to me? I've heard horror stories of people trying to recruit Xavier but what i've heard is just "he's almost impossible to recruit" but not why.

Edited by Armagon

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, NinjaMonkey said:

Damn, someone beat me to it!

Also, tier one healers, as they are a right pain in the arse to train up, in comparison to units that can actually attack.

Oh yeah I forgot about them. I knew there was something else I didn't like. Though for me it's because they are so hard to level up in most games.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Armagon said:

Right, can someone explain this to me? I've heard horror stories of people trying to recruit Xavier but what i've heard is just "he's almost impossible to recruit" and not why.

Long post, so I'll add a show/hide.

Spoiler

80-FE5_(2)277.png

Xavier's recruitment has him with a bunch of Armor Knights with unique portraits. To recruit him, you have to not kill/capture these guys, release some civilians with unique portraits, then ensure they safely reach the soldier they're supposed to talk to. Each unique portraited civilian matches with a unique portraited armor. Like the old lady with the old man.

xavier_generals2.png.be2c15e69be27d32941a65fa92777297.png

The thing that makes it annoying is not only do the other enemy try to kill/capture the civilians, but Xavier's other soldiers will kill/capture civilians outside of their own loved one along with their fellows. Like this guy here when an enemy unit will capture his friend's loved ones, while his friend besides him, will kill the dude above with a hammer after this touching conversation.

As this video parodies, Xavier himself will mow down his own beloved soldiers himself due to his AI not distinguishing them from any other enemy.

139-FE5_(2)404.png

There's also a thing in the same chapter where you wanna get a membership card for the Secret Shop and of course LTC runners want to LTC run the chapter.

64-FE5_(2)239.png

Fans did find out a good time ago, that as long as the Armor talks to their loved one, even if they die, it'll start count as saving them for Xavier's recruitment. Thus as long as civilian lives and the Armor talks to the civilian, it doesn't matter if the Armor dies after the reunion. Like the guy above can die after this conversation and you can still recruit Xavier.

Much more recently the fandom found a new, new strategy that makes thing significantly easier where the otherwise worthless sleep sword is used. When you put the enemy armors to sleep, the civilians can still talk to them. This makes things much, much easier, but this is still one of the harder recruitment in the franchise, if not the hardest.

While Xavier himself is an above average unit despite being an Armored Class, many fans debate if he's worth it.

Edited by Emperor Hardin

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
33 minutes ago, Armagon said:

My anwser to that is "there was a second pair of Boots?" I knew about the pair of Boots that you could get in Arcadia; that's the one i give to Roy because his movement is a bigger issue than his late promotion imo. I had no idea there were another pair.

Actually, I think I cheated on that playthrough. It started when my Chad couldn't promote, and I got mad because he was so insanely good, so I turned him into a Hero. Hacking is a slippery slope. I avoided it through most of the game, but I think the second pair of boots was cheated in so I didn't have to do the level again. I'm ashamed, but I don't regret it. Actually, I might have given the cheated-in boots to Wendy, I honestly don't remember. But the boots and promoting Chad, that was it, nothing else.

EDIT: Actually, there is more than one pair of boots in FE6, you just don't get it until later. I think the boots I got in the desert were the ones I used on Thany to get her farther faster, and then I cheated a pair of boots in for Wendy before I got to the secret shop that actually sells boots.

Edited by Florina's #1 Fan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Florina's #1 Fan said:

Actually, I think I cheated on that playthrough. It started when my Chad couldn't promote, and I got mad because he was so insanely good, so I turned him into a Hero. Hacking is a slippery slope. I avoided it through most of the game, but I think the second pair of boots was cheated in so I didn't have to do the level again. I'm ashamed, but I don't regret it. Actually, I might have given the cheated-in boots to Wendy, I honestly don't remember. But the boots and promoting Chad, that was it, nothing else.

You know movement growth should be brought back.

Of all the things for Shadows of Valentia to bring back from Thracia 776 why fatigue, and not movement growth?

High movement growth at least gives a chance in Tearring Saga, your General can be good with effort.

Edited by Emperor Hardin

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, Emperor Hardin said:

Also not a class I specifically dislike, but Fighters/Warriors need to be stand out more from Pirates/Berserkers. They're not a bad class, but  Berserker's critical bonus often out shows their use of bows as well as Berserker's high speed vs Warrior's slightly higher skill. Too bad, they haven't been any games with Good bows.

There are games where Warriors are very good like the Tellius games, however.

Basically Warriors need to have noticeably better skill and maybe defense then Berserkers, they also need to be in the Fire Emblem games where Bows are a good weapon type

Are there any games outside of Fates (which doesn't have Warrior as a promotion for Fighter, as Berserker replaced it... for worse) where Bows are a good weapon type? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Emperor Hardin said:

Long post, so I'll add a show/hide.

  Reveal hidden contents

80-FE5_(2)277.png

Xavier's recruitment has him with a bunch of Armor Knights with unique portraits. To recruit him, you have to not kill/capture these guys, release some civilians with unique portraits, then ensure they safely reach the soldier they're supposed to talk to. Each unique portraited civilian matches with a unique portraited armor. Like the old lady with the old man.

xavier_generals2.png.be2c15e69be27d32941a65fa92777297.png

The thing that makes it annoying is not only do the other enemy try to kill/capture the civilians, but Xavier's other soldiers will kill/capture civilians outside of their own loved one along with their fellows. Like this guy here when an enemy unit will capture his friend's loved ones, while his friend besides him, will kill the dude above with a hammer after this touching conversation.

As this video parodies, Xavier himself will mow down his own beloved soldiers himself due to his AI not distinguishing them from any other enemy.

139-FE5_(2)404.png

There's also a thing in the same chapter where you wanna get a membership card for the Secret Shop and of course LTC runners want to LTC run the chapter.

64-FE5_(2)239.png

Fans did find out a good time ago, that as long as the Armor talks to their loved one, even if they die, it'll start count as saving them for Xavier's recruitment. Thus as long as civilian lives and the Armor talks to the civilian, it doesn't matter if the Armor dies after the reunion. Like the guy above can die after this conversation and you can still recruit Xavier.

Much more recently the fandom found a new, new strategy that makes thing significantly easier where the otherwise worthless sleep sword is used. When you put the enemy armors to sleep, the civilians can still talk to them. This makes things much, much easier, but this is still one of the harder recruitment in the franchise, if not the hardest.

While Xavier himself is an above average unit despite being an Armored Class, many fans debate if he's worth it.

God damn, that is the most cryptic and frustrating thing in the entire series. I'm glad i stopped playing Thracia honestly, because i like to recruit everybody (even if i wouldn't use them) and i would've tried so hard to recruit Xavier. I think that+Ch.24x has just completely killed any chance of me picking up Thracia again.

4 minutes ago, Florina's #1 Fan said:

Actually, I think I cheated on that playthrough. It started when my Chad couldn't promote, and I got mad because he was so insanely good, so I turned him into a Hero. Hacking is a slippery slope. I avoided it through most of the game, but I think the second pair of boots was cheated in so I didn't have to do the level again. I'm ashamed, but I don't regret it. Actually, I might have given the cheated-in boots to Wendy, I honestly don't remember. But the boots and promoting Chad, that was it, nothing else.

God damn it, you brought my hopes up. And here i was thinking "in my next Binding Blade playthrough, i'll give Fae an extra pair of Boots so she doesn't fall behind in Ch.24". Nope, that ain't happening.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

Are there any games outside of Fates (which doesn't have Warrior as a promotion for Fighter, as Berserker replaced it... for worse) where Bows are a good weapon type? 

Gaiden/Echoes: Shadows of Valentia.

They're also comparatively better then usual in Radiant Dawn and New Mystery of the Emblem.

Edited by Emperor Hardin

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Armagon said:

God damn it, you brought my hopes up. And here i was thinking "in my next Binding Blade playthrough, i'll give Fae an extra pair of Boots so she doesn't fall behind in Ch.24". Nope, that ain't happening.

Well, good news! You get Hugh and his silver card can give you access to a secret shop in Chapter 21 where they sell boots! I edited my post to say that there is a way to get more boots.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.