FE Warriors at TGS

[Lau]

Just now, NoirCore said:

UUUUUUUUGGGGGGGHHHH.

I'm very happy Celica's in, even as she is, but, apologies for being blunt, I want no part of this disappointment bug.

I get it. Celica uses a sword, most of the cast is Awakefateswhatever, Azura's not in, too many swords, etc. They're good complaints with decent reasons against the bad PR. However, this complaining is really making me apathetic towards the fanbase.

Maybe it's just me, but I'd rather not get hung up on negatives and search for positives. Maybe that's why I quickly got over the whole "only Awakefates with SD" thing and stopped caring for weapons. Maybe that's why I stopped setting high expectations for reveals. Maybe that's why I'm accepting of Celica as she is.

Sorry if I seem overly harsh against the general criticisms here, but...yeah.

THANK YOU. Someone gets it. I could hug you, seriously.

[Truthblade]

3 minutes ago, Saint_Stahn said:

Every single character in the roster was expected. They are all main characters from their respective narrative and appear in cutscenes. with only 2 excetions. Fredo and Cordy.

And the only one that got the boot. was Azura...

Do you... do you play fire emblem ONLY for the main character? isn't the point of the series is to use some of the B team characters to enjoy the game?
Just asking.

Fe Warriors was stated as a game that was gonna feature many characters from the 3 picked franchises. They didn't deliver and ''half heartedly'' gave us Lyn and Celica. when other spots could've been Ephraim, Hector or even Sigurd himself. Oooor give us some shepherds, feroxi characters or retainers from fates.

Basically Koei didn't commit to the original goal and half-assed the whole process. Who can really be happy about that?

I like Chrom, Ryoma, and Xander... but I'm not buying a game with almost 30 characters JUST to use 3 dudes. I'm sure other people feel that way.

You really can't defend this roster... you just can't, it lacks variety and integrity. As of the moment thanks to the leak. It's Waifu Warriors. 5 more women than the men while claiming ''gender balance'' by using female Corrin. and 2 of those extra girls are sword users... one of them confirmed a half clone of one of the main character. Come on...

Are you assuming that the boxart has the entire roster? I still think there's likely more.

 

10 minutes ago, SlipperySlippy said:

Frederick and Lissa are extremely unremarkable and hold very little presence to the series. That isn't opinion, that's fact. Choosing a roster that's meant to celebrate an entire series based on character interrelationships is an already horrible design decision (it would be mitigated by the fact that they done it for the story, however Lyn and Celica are inconsistent with this and let's be real here, Warrior games generally have terrible story).

Also the Sumia and Cordelia choice was also moronic, since they decided to include Lissa and Frederick purely because of their relationship with Chrom and yet choose Cordelia over Sumia due to popularity. That's exactly the same as including Jagen and Elice in the game due to their relationship with Marth - both of which, would be terrible character additions. Regardless, the point is... they're very inconsistent. 

Similarly, their initial choice to not include Lucina was also extremely stupid. 

And what is your basis for these claims? The fact you don't like them? I find Awakening to have a very weak cast overall, yet I think most of the inclusions make sense. It sounds like you are saying character inclusions should be based on how well written they are (sorry if I am putting words in your mouth, but that's the impression I am getting)....which is problematic because that is as subjective as what the best color is, because people have different ideas of what is well written or not (there are people who even like Fates' Story). Choices like these should be set on an objective view, like story relationships in a game, or which games have the higher milestones in the franchise.

[Folt]

16 minutes ago, Saint_Stahn said:

Every single character in the roster was expected. They are all main characters from their respective narrative and appear in cutscenes. with only 2 exceptions. Fredo and Cordy.

And the only one that got the boot. was Azura...

Do you... do you play fire emblem ONLY for the main character? isn't the point of the series is to use some of the B team characters to enjoy the game?
Just asking.

Fe Warriors was stated as a game that was gonna feature many characters from the 3 picked franchises. They didn't deliver and ''half heartedly'' gave us Lyn and Celica. when other spots could've been Ephraim, Hector or even Sigurd himself. Oooor give us some shepherds, feroxi characters or retainers from fates.

Basically Koei didn't commit to the original goal and half-assed the whole process. Who can really be happy about that?

I like Chrom, Ryoma, and Xander... but I'm not buying a game with almost 30 characters JUST to use 3 dudes. I'm sure other people feel that way.

You really can't defend this roster... you just can't, it lacks variety and integrity. As of the moment thanks to the leak. It's Waifu Warriors. 5 more women than the men while claiming ''gender balance'' by using female Corrin. and 2 of those extra girls are sword users... one of them confirmed a half clone of one of the main character. Come on...

As far as I know, a third of the Fates siblings are main characters who don't use swords. Why should I be sad that they got in over a bevy of other sword lords? The fact that only two sword lords from other games got in is honestly a relief since I was worried they'd be picking more of them.

Also, the fact that the two were as low priority as could get is fine by me since that tells me that they didn't waste time focusing on games that shouldn't be focused on in the first place. Most likely, they were simply characters that was worked in in their own spare time when the important stuff was finished/mostly finished because heaven forbid they're fans of the series.

[FoxyGrandpa]

i don't understand why people even think sigurd being in this game would generate any hype when 

a) he has never appear internationally in any form outside of some obscure toys and awakening dlc

b) his games haven't been relevant for some time

c) His popularity isn't amazingly high

With Lyn and Celica, it at least made some sense to include them since the former is insanely popular and the latter is relevant with shadows of valentia. People are 10x more likely to get hyped for these 2 then they ever would be for sigurd, in spite of them being sword infantry.

As for Celica, her being a Marth clone probably has something to do with her being rushed into the game right around when SoV was annocunced. I'm not happy for this being a reason for her being a clone, but I can somewhat understand it. Her model does look really good though and I think her being a marth clone is a bit more understandable based on her animations (she definetly attacks with more grace than Alm, pretty similarly to Marth).

[?????]

1 minute ago, NoirCore said:

UUUUUUUUGGGGGGGHHHH.

I'm very happy Celica's in, even as she is, but, apologies for being blunt, I want no part of this disappointment bug.

I get it. Celica uses a sword, most of the cast is Awakefateswhatever, Azura's not in, too many swords, etc. They're good complaints with decent reasons against the bad PR. However, this complaining is really making me apathetic towards the fanbase.

Maybe it's just me, but I'd rather not get hung up on negatives and search for positives. Maybe that's why I quickly got over the whole "only Awakefates with SD" thing and stopped caring for weapons. Maybe that's why I stopped setting high expectations for reveals. Maybe that's why I'm accepting of Celica as she is.

Sorry if I seem overly harsh against the general criticisms here, but...yeah.

You have to understand this isn't complaining without reason. Game companies aren't charitable organizations that bless you with ''videogames''.

Nintendo ''can't do no wrong'' is just a myth.

If they do a crap job... You have to call it out. This game is that. It's like this. I like Mario. but remember that OCEAN of lifeless ''new super mario'' games that came out for a while before FINALLY we got Odyssey? Thats what I mean.

This game isn't some sort of blessing for the fanbase. It's marketing tactic for new fans that played awakening and fates. While throwing a bone to old fans with Lyn.... Celica is just advertisement. Just as Roy was in Melee. As a FILTHY uninspired clone.

[bethany81707]

6 minutes ago, SatsumaFSoysoy said:

I was hype about Celica for about two seconds, until I realized (and heard the presenter say) that her moveset was just a clone of Marth's, and thus has nothing Celica-like in it other than that one Ragnarok Musou (that almost took 15 fucking seconds while Celica stands in place).

It's such a fucking shame that the game system looks extremely solid, yet the game fails almost every aesthetic/fanservice expectation.

Wait, you understood the Japanese? Could you confirm the part where they mentioned that it would be weird if Celica used tomes in Warriors?

[Fireball260]

6 minutes ago, Glennstavos said:

Now I just want to liken FEW characters to MvC Infinite character choices. Spencer, Marth, your spinoff appearances have been better than your last attempt at a main game ten years ago, go home. Let's call Tellius the missing X men cast, since I'd say Ike and Wolverine are equally bizarre exclusions. Doctor Doom can represent really any FE villain that would be fun to boost guard as. Hinoka is Firebrand, because you totally forgot who they were and what game they're from. Corrin is Monster Hunter where you didn't previously associate this character to be canonically a woman. And Camilla is Morrigan due to that grating voicework and design.

Hey now Camilla doesn't have a vanishing accent like Morrigan 

[TheWill]

1 minute ago, Truthblade said:

And what is your basis for these claims? The fact you don't like them? I find Awakening to have a very weak cast overall, yet I think most of the inclusions make sense. It sounds like you are saying character inclusions should be based on how well written they are (sorry if I am putting words in your mouth, but that's the impression I am getting)....which is problematic because that is as subjective as what the best color is, because people have different ideas of what is well written or not (there are people who even like Fates' Story). Choices like these should be set on an objective view, like story relationships in a game, or which games have the higher milestones in the franchise.

Sorry if I didn't make my basis clear. Lissa and Frederick aren't acceptable inclusions as their relation to Chrom does not provide a strong base to take up roster slots for this game. It is the exact same situation as making Jagen or Elice playable due to their (same) relationship with Marth. These aren't strong foundations to be included and since neither of them are popular, they don't help make the roster healthier. 

[LoboKD001]

btw how do u guys no lyn and celica are low in priority?

[Lau]

2 minutes ago, Saint_Stahn said:

You have to understand this isn't complaining without reason. Game companies aren't charitable organizations that bless you with ''videogames''.

Nintendo ''can't do no wrong'' is just a myth.

If they do a crap job... You have to call it out. This game is that. It's like this. I like Mario. but remember that OCEAN of lifeless ''new super mario'' games that came out for a while before FINALLY we got Odyssey? Thats what I mean.

This game isn't some sort of blessing for the fanbase. It's marketing tactic for new fans that played awakening and fates. While throwing a bone to old fans with Lyn.... Celica is just advertisement. Just as Roy was in Melee. As a FILTHY uninspired clone.

You have a point, people don't like clones, people freaking hate the roster, the same old reasons we've heard for months. But can you not let people be happy about the game? It's not a crap job, the game looks amazing. So what if it's a marketing tactic? If it gets more fans, I don't see why that's such a bad thing-- oh wait, the Awakening and Fates pandering, whoop-dee-doo, big deal.

I'm sorry, it just frustrates me so goddamn much that people can't get over a few little issues.

"Celebrating the franchise" fair enough, but I don't think this fanbase deserves anything of the sort at its current state.

[SatsumaFSoysoy]

7 minutes ago, Lau said:

Oho, man that's harsh, and completely unnecessary. I'll have you know that my opinion matters very little to game developers, as does the opinions of others who like clones, so stop spouting shit like that.

 

Honestly, aren't you all overreacting a tad? We have what, four clones? Sakura, Elise, Lucina and Celica, yet they aren't complete clones? Calm down. I actually agree with what they said about including Celica, how she doesn't use tomes and it'd be wrong to give her some so they made her focus on her sword. Look at Melee, it had about six. It could be worse. Jeez louise.

Hinoka/Cordelia are also clones of each other. Class movesets is just lazy in a Musou game with a relatively tame roster. Why couldn't they afford to give people unique basic moves, such as letting Celica and Robin be hybrid sword/magic attackers? Why couldn't they NOT make Sakura jump around shooting three arrows in a skirt?

6 minutes ago, NoirCore said:

UUUUUUUUGGGGGGGHHHH.

I'm very happy Celica's in, even as she is, but, apologies for being blunt, I want no part of this disappointment bug.

I get it. Celica uses a sword, most of the cast is Awakefateswhatever, Azura's not in, too many swords, etc. They're good complaints with decent reasons against the bad PR. However, this complaining is really making me apathetic towards the fanbase.

Maybe it's just me, but I'd rather not get hung up on negatives and search for positives. Maybe that's why I quickly got over the whole "only Awakefates with SD" thing and stopped caring for weapons. Maybe that's why I stopped setting high expectations for reveals. Maybe that's why I'm accepting of Celica as she is.

Sorry if I seem overly harsh against the general criticisms here, but...yeah.

I agree that there have been some people whose reactions have screamed entitlement, but I don't think Nintendo and Koei should be immune from this criticism either. There are positives, and this reveal has shown us more negatives. Unfortunately, most of the positives related to the map system were presented in Japanese, so people aren't immediately getting that info.

2 minutes ago, phineas81707 said:

Wait, you understood the Japanese? Could you confirm the part where they mentioned that it would be weird if Celica used tomes in Warriors?

Wait, you don't know I can understand Japanese?

Yes, they talk about it from about 0:45 to until Celica uses Ragnarok.

[Crubat]

5 minutes ago, FoxyGrandpa said:

i don't understand why people even think sigurd being in this game would generate any hype when 

a) he has never appear internationally in any form outside of some obscure toys and awakening dlc

b) his games haven't been relevant for some time

c) His popularity isn't amazingly high

It's funny cause a recent poll showed that Japan's favorite FE game is Genealogy of the Holy War lol

[Lord-Zero]

4 minutes ago, Lau said:

Oho, man that's harsh, and completely unnecessary. I'll have you know that my opinion matters very little to game developers, as does the opinions of others who like clones, so stop spouting shit like that.

 

Honestly, aren't you all overreacting a tad? We have what, four clones? Sakura, Elise, Lucina and Celica, yet they aren't complete clones? Calm down. I actually agree with what they said about including Celica, how she doesn't use tomes and it'd be wrong to give her some so they made her focus on her sword. Look at Melee, it had about six. It could be worse. Jeez louise.

I'm just being honest. I'm aware that a fan's opinion matters very little to developers. The people who like clones? Sorry but I have a very negative view and opinion on them. 

I'm sick of this hollow attempt at padding a roster for the sake of padding. It's a disservice to the characters and to the fans as well. One clone is already too much. 

[FoxyGrandpa]

1 minute ago, SlipperySlippy said:

Sorry if I didn't make my basis clear. Lissa and Frederick aren't acceptable inclusions as their relation to Chrom does not provide a strong base to take up roster slots for this game. It is the exact same situation as making Jagen or Elice playable due to their (same) relationship with Marth. These aren't strong foundations to be included and since neither of them are popular, they don't help make the roster healthier. 

Difference is that Elice and Jagen barely had any story presence in Shadow Dragon, with jagen remaining mute for most of the game and Elice not appearing until, like chapter 23. Lissa and Fredrick, had a much stronger presence in Awakening's story, appearing frequently in cutscenes.You could make an argument for jagen having a presence due to his role in NME, but since thats not a game being focused on, it doesn't pertain too much weight.

 

 

[Fireball260]

1 minute ago, LoboKD001 said:

btw how do u guys no lyn and celica are low in priority?

While I don't know for certain the evidence seems to line up 

A) Celica is a Clone (Lyn might be one too)

B) they seem to have next to no story presence. The new TGS trailer the first half which focused on story had no scene with Lyn or Celica

C) Probably the most important thing in Musou games are their side modes. Before Lyn was leak History mode was announced. You really can't have that mode with only one character from their game you need at the very least 4 which Lyn and Celica don't have. 

[FoxyGrandpa]

2 minutes ago, Crubat said:

It's funny cause a recent poll showed that Japan's favorite FE game is Genealogy of the Holy War lol

Still doesn't hold much weight given that the game hasn't released overseas. 

[?????]

6 minutes ago, Lau said:

You have a point, people don't like clones, people freaking hate the roster, the same old reasons we've heard for months. But can you not let people be happy about the game? It's not a crap job, the game looks amazing. So what if it's a marketing tactic? If it gets more fans, I don't see why that's such a bad thing-- oh wait, the Awakening and Fates pandering, whoop-dee-doo, big deal.

I'm sorry, it just frustrates me so goddamn much that people can't get over a few little issues.

"Celebrating the franchise" fair enough, but I don't think this fanbase deserves anything of the sort at its current state.

Please don't misunderstand. Forget the awakening and fates ''pandeing''. That wasn't even done right. Where are the other fan favorite's that people use?

Lonqu, Gaius, Tharja, Nowi, Henry, Donnel... ALL these 6 idiots, were on the top 20. I don't even like em, but the fact that NONE OF THEM Are in the base game repping awakening... well isn't that a bit sad?

And then there's Virion... who like Fredderick. Has plot armor, and is somewhat important on the Valm arc. WHERE IS HE??? Another archer that we could've added... but no.

Do you expect me to believe everyone just grabbed, Lissa, Fredo and Cordelia and called it a day? You think the other characters in the game don't have fans?

Also on Fates... wasn't Oboro supposed to be insanley popular? Jakob as well? a lancer and a knife user.
Oh wait... there's no knives in this game. And Oboro doesn't get in cause we gotta put Azur--- oh...
 

Edited September 21, 2017 by Saint_Stahn

[MMXZero]

No Olivia, no Charlotte, no Owain and no Basilio. 

Something tells me someone from Nintendo/Koei Tecmo/whoever was reading the forums and saw the reactions to the character roster and panicked when they discovered that the roster was incredibly predictable. 

Celica's addition over Alm is a huge head scratcher due to some of the KT staff wanting to write a bond conversation between Cordelia and Chrom. You would think a "fanservice" game would prioritize a bond conversation between the Hero King and The Other Hero King instead of his waifu.

[TheWill]

6 minutes ago, FoxyGrandpa said:

Difference is that Elice and Jagen barely had any story presence in Shadow Dragon, with jagen remaining mute for most of the game and Elice not appearing until, like chapter 23. Lissa and Fredrick, had a much stronger presence in Awakening's story, appearing frequently in cutscenes.You could make an argument for jagen having a presence due to his role in NME, but since thats not a game being focused on, it doesn't pertain too much weight.

Debatable. Whilst Lissa and Frederick were notable during earlier chapters, their story presence quickly diminished (especially during the Say'ri arc). Regardless, both are very forgettable. 

Lissa has as much story presence as Mist, and at least the latter develops after her father died (unlike Lissa and her sister). 

Edit: Oops, I feel I should clarify. I'm saying that it's debatable their story presence provides them an excuse to be included, not that Jagen or Elice had more. Although Jagen was much more memorable in New Emblem than Frederick/Lissa/Elice, however I've replayed New Emblem multiple times and Awakening only once, so possibly cognitive bias. 

Edited September 21, 2017 by SlipperySlippy

[bethany81707]

3 minutes ago, SatsumaFSoysoy said:

Wait, you don't know I can understand Japanese?

Yes, they talk about it from about 0:45 to until Celica uses Ragnarok.

You're not one of the big translators, so it's not on my mind frequenty.

You're also the second person I've seen who's been translating anything for the benefit of this thread.

4 minutes ago, SatsumaFSoysoy said:

I agree that there have been some people whose reactions have screamed entitlement, but I don't think Nintendo and Koei should be immune from this criticism either. There are positives, and this reveal has shown us more negatives. Unfortunately, most of the positives related to the map system were presented in Japanese, so people aren't immediately getting that info.

(The first person gave me that impression, and if it was a way to hedge "We made Celica a clone because we ran out of time", they honestly would've been better off with the truth, because that is the worst thing I have ever heard out of this game.)

[NoirCore]

3 minutes ago, Saint_Stahn said:

You have to understand this isn't complaining without reason. Game companies aren't charitable organizations that bless you with ''videogames''.

Nintendo ''can't do no wrong'' is just a myth.

If they do a crap job... You have to call it out. This game is that. It's like this. I like Mario. but remember that OCEAN of lifeless ''new super mario'' games that came out for a while before FINALLY we got Odyssey? Thats what I mean.

This game isn't some sort of blessing for the fanbase. It's marketing tactic for new fans that played awakening and fates. While throwing a bone to old fans with Lyn.... Celica is just advertisement. Just as Roy was in Melee. As a FILTHY uninspired clone.

...I do understand, hence why I said the reasons are good. But holy crud, people stab that dead horse with their beastslayers a bunch.

Your "filthy uninspired clone" remark and reactions to Celica are, if I may be blunt, not sitting well with me. Yes, she's a clone, I get it. But I'm happy she's in over the roster being one person shorter; and yes, I do not think they would make another main roster character in place of Celica because, as you say, she's a clone.

I'm happy Celica's in, even if she has the same dang moveset as Marth. You can have your complaints, but put away the violin, man.

[SatsumaFSoysoy]

1 minute ago, phineas81707 said:

You're not one of the big translators, so it's not on my mind frequenty.

You're also the second person I've seen who's been translating anything for the benefit of this thread.

(The first person gave me that impression, and if it was a way to hedge "We made Celica a clone because we ran out of time", they honestly would've been better off with the truth, because that is the worst thing I have ever heard out of this game.)

brb bombarding Vincent with PMs

I haven't said anything about the map mechanics yet because I haven't fully taken it in yet. I'm not sure you mean with your bracketed sentence though, sorry.

[?????]

3 minutes ago, NoirCore said:

...I do understand, hence why I said the reasons are good. But holy crud, people stab that dead horse with their beastslayers a bunch.

Your "filthy uninspired clone" remark and reactions to Celica are, if I may be blunt, not sitting well with me. Yes, she's a clone, I get it. But I'm happy she's in over the roster being one person shorter; and yes, I do not think they would make another main roster character in place of Celica because, as you say, she's a clone.

I'm happy Celica's in, even if she has the same dang moveset as Marth. You can have your complaints, but put away the violin, man.

That violin comment sounds hella patronizing mate. If you think me ''complaining'' is me trying to make you not buy the game. Then you really can't read people well.

Go, buy the game. have fun. Get your special edition and support the company. It really is, none of my business.

Edited September 21, 2017 by Saint_Stahn

[Anomalocaris]

11 minutes ago, Lau said:

You have a point, people don't like clones, people freaking hate the roster, the same old reasons we've heard for months. But can you not let people be happy about the game? It's not a crap job, the game looks amazing. So what if it's a marketing tactic? If it gets more fans, I don't see why that's such a bad thing-- oh wait, the Awakening and Fates pandering, whoop-dee-doo, big deal.

I'm sorry, it just frustrates me so goddamn much that people can't get over a few little issues.

"Celebrating the franchise" fair enough, but I don't think this fanbase deserves anything of the sort at its current state.

I'm with you on that. I'm still sincerely looking forward to this game, and while I do have some disappointment in the roster/clones/sword-abundance (Which I decided to express in a silly way down in my signature), it's just a mild damper on everything else that looks really fun and really good.

Some of the overreactions here and elsewhere are just... ech.

Edited September 21, 2017 by Anomalocaris

[Truthblade]

17 minutes ago, Saint_Stahn said:

You have to understand this isn't complaining without reason. Game companies aren't charitable organizations that bless you with ''videogames''.

Nintendo ''can't do no wrong'' is just a myth.

If they do a crap job... You have to call it out. This game is that. It's like this. I like Mario. but remember that OCEAN of lifeless ''new super mario'' games that came out for a while before FINALLY we got Odyssey? Thats what I mean.

This game isn't some sort of blessing for the fanbase. It's marketing tactic for new fans that played awakening and fates. While throwing a bone to old fans with Lyn.... Celica is just advertisement. Just as Roy was in Melee. As a FILTHY uninspired clone.

The problem is that a lot people seem quick to jump on the salt bandwagon before they check to see if they is any reasons for the decision. A lot of people are angry Celica is a clone for example, and I can think of reasons why they would have done that.

 

15 minutes ago, SlipperySlippy said:

Sorry if I didn't make my basis clear. Lissa and Frederick aren't acceptable inclusions as their relation to Chrom does not provide a strong base to take up roster slots for this game. It is the exact same situation as making Jagen or Elice playable due to their (same) relationship with Marth. These aren't strong foundations to be included and since neither of them are popular, they don't help make the roster healthier. 

According to who?

That's what I mean by it being subjective. What seems weak to you and others, seems perfectly reasonable to me and others. We have no basis to determine who is right and who is not. Even lacking story presence is not inherently negative depending on the context.