FE Warriors at TGS

[bethany81707]

1 minute ago, SatsumaFSoysoy said:

brb bombarding Vincent with PMs

I haven't said anything about the map mechanics yet because I haven't fully taken it in yet. I'm not sure you mean with your bracketed sentence though, sorry.

I'm talking about the whole 'Celica doesn't use magic in Warriors because she didn't use tomes in Echoes' thing. If it was suposed to be a coverup, it was a really terrible coverup, and they would be better off with the truth (Celica was a late addition, and making her a clone is all we could do).

[TheWill]

Just now, Truthblade said:

According to who?

That's what I mean by it being subjective. What seems weak to you and others, seems perfectly reasonable to me and others. We have no basis to determine who is right and who is not. Even lacking story presence is not inherently negative depending on the context.

I'm not sure what you're trying to get across, as there is no objective definition of a 'healthy roster' (there are also multiple considerations to take into account). If it's fan satisfaction, Lissa and Frederick are most definitely not the candidates for a healthy game roster. 

[Fireball260]

2 minutes ago, SlipperySlippy said:

I'm not sure what you're trying to get across, as there is no objective definition of a 'healthy roster' (there are also multiple considerations to take into account). If it's fan satisfaction, Lissa and Frederick are most definitely not the candidates for a healthy game roster. 

I feel it is heathy in the way that these are classes that wouldn't be represented if not for these characters. As Axe wielding Great Knight and War Clerics these arc types would probably have next to Zero chance to get in and the Classes and the way they work in this setting are the most interesting things this game has going for it from the perspective of a Musou fan.  

[NoirCore]

4 minutes ago, Saint_Stahn said:

That violin comment sounds hella patronizing mate. If you think me ''complaining'' is me trying to make you not buy the game. Then you really can't read people well.

Go, buy the game. have fun. Get your special edition and support the company. It really is, none of my business.

I'm not suspecting you of trying to convince me to not get the game. However, your wording of your negative descriptions of Celica's portrayal (not simply you having an opinion, just so we're clear) left a sour taste in my mouth, and I already explained my headache with the understandable yet overpopulated, parroted roster complaints I've seen plenty make with the same reasoning and the same "feat. this guy" joke. Again, sorry for coming off as I am, but this is how I feel after I was so happy to see Celica in spite of her clone status and shaky reasoning for her sword.

[?????]

3 minutes ago, Truthblade said:

The problem is that a lot people seem quick to jump on the salt bandwagon before they check to see if they is any reasons for the decision. A lot of people are angry Celica is a clone for example, and I can think of reasons why they would have done that.

 

According to who?

That's what I mean by it being subjective. What seems weak to you and others, seems perfectly reasonable to me and others. We have no basis to determine who is right and who is not. Even lacking story presence is not inherently negative depending on the context.

Celica being a clone due to development issues is understandable yes. But why shaft Alm? He has his fans and is one of the two main characters of the game. It's funny how once Celica gets announced everyone is like ''lol screw Alm''. What kinda mentality is that?

Apparently being a main character doesn't really matter. Because proven how Celica was a clone, means that her being picked wasn't to add variety to the roster.

The fact that Alm is the only falchion user thats missing from the roster in this so called ''celebreation game'' also sits extremely bad with me. Like he doesn't matter.

Celica has no self reference of being more popular than Alm, since Alm actually was more hyped than Chrom and Corrin were and Celica herself was actually getting criticized for her poor decisions within the story.

Unless we get some Shadows of Valentia DLC episode that puts Alm and 2 or 3 other characters that AREN'T swords. Some supports, and History segments. It just feels incomplete.

I did say I was gonna change my tune for the DLC. A practice I do NOT support... but oh well. If it's the only way for ME to have fun. I don't have any other choice do I?

I did say Begrudgingly.

[Namarid]

I don't mind her inclusion at all.

Celica fans are happy. She's a clone of Marth who has one of coolest movesets in the game. That's a bigger positive than negative. The roster is not looking bad so far, as long as they release 4 more SD characters we're set. I can't wait for October 20th.

[TheWill]

1 minute ago, Fireball260 said:

I feel it is heathy in the way that these are classes that wouldn't be represented if not for these characters. As Axe wielding Great Knight and War Clerics these arc types would probably have next to Zero chance to get in and the Classes and the way they work in this setting are the most interesting things this game has going for it from the perspective of a Musou fan.  

Following that logic however, there are also many other classes to take into consideration that haven't had any representation (armoured units, lance infantry, non-axe cavaliars, monks, dark mages, ninjas, thieves, dancers, clerics, etc) and there are much better alternatives for a 'healthy' roster to choose from than Lissa and Frederick.

[Lord-Zero]

6 minutes ago, phineas81707 said:

I'm talking about the whole 'Celica doesn't use magic in Warriors because she didn't use tomes in Echoes' thing. If it was suposed to be a coverup, it was a really terrible coverup, and they would be better off with the truth (Celica was a late addition, and making her a clone is all we could do).

It was a terrible coverup on KT's part. If they REALLY wanted Celica, she was probably better off as DLC with proper development time rather than rushing to the microwave oven. She deserved better.

If anything, this pretty much spared Alm from getting a cloned moveset and it opens the possibility of a SoV DLC pack with Alm and most likely Faye as playable characters. 

[RotomGuy]

1 minute ago, Namarid said:

I don't mind her inclusion at all.

Celica fans are happy. She's a clone of Marth who has one of coolest movesets in the game. That's a bigger positive than negative. The roster is not looking bad so far, as long as they release 4 more SD characters we're set. I can't wait for October 20th.

Actually from what i've seen Celica fans aren't happy. I know personally i'd rather have her excluded, and added later with a much more unique moveset than have her be a clone.

[NoirCore]

Just now, Namarid said:

I don't mind her inclusion at all.

Celica fans are happy. She's a clone of Marth who has one of coolest movesets in the game. That's a bigger positive than negative. The roster is not looking bad so far, as long as they release 4 more SD characters we're set. I can't wait for October 20th.

Hell yeah.

10 minutes ago, phineas81707 said:

I'm talking about the whole 'Celica doesn't use magic in Warriors because she didn't use tomes in Echoes' thing. If it was suposed to be a coverup, it was a really terrible coverup, and they would be better off with the truth (Celica was a late addition, and making her a clone is all we could do).

Yeah...not really feeling that reasoning with how she uses tomes in Heroes regardless.

[SatsumaFSoysoy]

1 minute ago, Truthblade said:

Even lacking story presence is not inherently negative depending on the context.

That would be true if the roster was bigger, imo. This game has a relatively small and "focused" roster, and I don't think it's a huge stretch to claim that getting excluded from the bulk of the game's content is a big indicator of late addition. They even go against the earlier statement of SD, Awakening and Fates only.

A famous example would be Super Smash Bros. Brawl's Subspace Emissary mode, where Sonic was added to the very end of the story only as a last-minute addition, and Jigglypuff, Toon Link and Wolf are only secret characters post-game, while the rest of the 39-strong cast all fit into the story. There's additional evidence in their ordering in the game files to support the fact that they're last-minute too.

1 minute ago, phineas81707 said:

I'm talking about the whole 'Celica doesn't use magic in Warriors because she didn't use tomes in Echoes' thing. If it was suposed to be a coverup, it was a really terrible coverup, and they would be better off with the truth (Celica was a late addition, and making her a clone is all we could do).

Well, I don't think it's actually a cover-up, since with Robin, as well as other characters who have access to multiple weapon types, they've already shown that they only have one major weapon type. And they do seem to have put thought into the game, but just came up with wack ideas. It's definitely possible that clones and general lack of unique multi-weapon movesets were due to time, but.. Who knows.

[Fireball260]

1 minute ago, Saint_Stahn said:

Celica being a clone due to development issues is understandable yes. But why shaft Alm? He has his fans and is one of the two main characters of the game. It's funny how once Celica gets announced everyone is like ''lol screw Alm''. What kinda mentality is that?

Apparently being a main character doesn't really matter. Because proven how Celica was a clone, means that her being picked wasn't to add variety to the roster.

The fact that Alm is the only falchion user thats missing from the roster in this so called ''celebreation game'' also sits extremely bad with me. Like he doesn't matter.

Celica has no self reference of being more popular than Alm, since Alm actually was more hyped than Chrom and Corrin were and Celica herself was actually getting criticized for her poor decisions within the story.

Unless we get some Shadows of Valentia DLC episode that puts Alm and 2 or 3 other characters that AREN'T swords. Some supports, and History segments. It just feels incomplete.

I did say I was gonna change my tune for the DLC. A practice I do NOT support... but oh well. If it's the only way for ME to have fun. I don't have any other choice do I?

I did say Begrudgingly.

I feel that Celica was added because Beloved Zofia resembles a rapier while Alms does not. Think about it there is no character that he could be a clone of. Also considering Celica probably won't have a history map in 100% certain there will be a SoV DLC 

[?????]

4 minutes ago, Lord-Zero said:

It was a terrible coverup on KT's part. If they REALLY wanted Celica, she was probably better off as DLC with proper development time rather than rushing to the microwave oven. She deserved better.

If anything, this pretty much spared Alm from getting a cloned moveset and it opens the possibility of a SoV DLC pack with Alm and most likely Faye as playable characters. 

Alm Dlc sounds extremely likely now. And as you said, he was spared a much worse fate. As much as I hate Faye. if we get Alm as DLC with better treatment. Well. Can't complain.

Day 1 Purchase when he's announced. Unless Ike and Roy beat him to the punch.

Or in the likely scenario. Fates retainers. And we actually get Arthur.

Thats a purchase with Gusto.

Edited September 21, 2017 by Saint_Stahn

[Fireball260]

3 minutes ago, SlipperySlippy said:

Following that logic however, there are also many other classes to take into consideration that haven't had any representation (armoured units, lance infantry, non-axe cavaliars, monks, dark mages, ninjas, thieves, dancers, clerics, etc) and there are much better alternatives for a 'healthy' roster to choose from than Lissa and Frederick.

Yea but removing them only exasperates the issue not fix it. Opening the roster doesn't fix the issue either, they obviously want to have variety and it is something we do have take away the 5 clones and we have 12 characters and with the expectation of the 3 lords all of them are different classes and bring something unique to the table. 

[NoirCore]

6 minutes ago, RotomGuy said:

Actually from what i've seen Celica fans aren't happy. I know personally i'd rather have her excluded, and added later with a much more unique moveset than have her be a clone.

I'm happy, and I'd rather her be a clone than not be in the game. Tell me, can you confirm those said Celica fans you mentioned share your view that she shouldn't be in the game at all now for her cloned moveset?

[Thane]

42 minutes ago, RotomGuy said:

No, going against it was not a good choice. The whole point of picking 3 games was to get members of the B cast, but what happened was is that Fates has too many main characters and SD got boned, and the only B cast characters we got were Lissa, Frederick and Cordelia. It's just a main character fest and it's so incredibly boring.

I think the worst part is that the rosters wouldn't differ that much even if they adhered strictly to the main cast.

So far, we've got:

Sword: 11 – Rowan, Lianna, Marth, Navarre, Celica, Lyn, Chrom, Lucina, Corrin, Ryoma, Xander

Lance: 3 – Caeda, Cordelia, Hinoka

Axe: 3 – Lissa, Frederick, Camilla

Bow: 2 – Takumi, Sakura

Tome: 3 – Robin, Leo, Elise

Breath: 1 – Tiki

But if they had stuck solely to the protagonists/core cast of each game, we'd get: 

Sword: 12 - Marth, Alm, Sigurd, Leif, Seliph, Roy, Eliwood, Lyn, Eirika, Ike, Chrom, Lucina

Axe: 1 - Hector

Lance: 1 - Ephraim

Tome: 3 - Celica, Micaiah, Robin

Breath: 1 - Corrin

I feel like the differences aren't that big aside from the lack of archers in the latter list. And it would make sense for them to expand upon it with characters like Takumi anyway.

[DefaultBeep]

1 minute ago, RotomGuy said:

Actually from what i've seen Celica fans aren't happy. I know personally i'd rather have her excluded, and added later with a much more unique moveset than have her be a clone.

I'm gonna say that this is a case of not all fans of a character feeling the same way. I'm glad to see her in this game at all. I would much prefer to have her be present in the base game than to make her DLC. Of course, I would prefer the third option, which is to give more characters unique movesets in the base game and have the game come out later; but, if it's between being in the base game at all or being DLC, I still prefer the former.

I do agree that having her and not Alm is kinda shady though. I'm still hopeful that there are more secret characters that aren't shown on the boxart, and that Alm is one of them but we'll have to see. I'm saving any serious judgement of the roster until we know with 100% certainty what the full roster is.

[SatsumaFSoysoy]

10 minutes ago, NoirCore said:

Yeah...not really feeling that reasoning with how she uses tomes in Heroes regardless.

That was honestly more of a technical limitation due to how SI works. They had to make an actual Owl tome since it had to be passed on, and you could give the Echoes mages other tomes, and they would have to have them show up. It was just easier to do a mini-retcon for that game.

As a Celica fan, wasn't happy about her tome in Heroes, not happy about Celica now.

Edited September 21, 2017 by SatsumaFSoysoy

[Truthblade]

7 minutes ago, Saint_Stahn said:

Celica being a clone due to development issues is understandable yes. But why shaft Alm? He has his fans and is one of the two main characters of the game. It's funny how once Celica gets announced everyone is like ''lol screw Alm''. What kinda mentality is that?

Apparently being a main character doesn't really matter. Because proven how Celica was a clone, means that her being picked wasn't to add variety to the roster.

The fact that Alm is the only falchion user thats missing from the roster in this so called ''celebreation game'' also sits extremely bad with me. Like he doesn't matter.

Celica has no self reference of being more popular than Alm, since Alm actually was more hyped than Chrom and Corrin were and Celica herself was actually getting criticized for her poor decisions within the story.

Unless we get some Shadows of Valentia DLC episode that puts Alm and 2 or 3 other characters that AREN'T swords. Some supports, and History segments. It just feels incomplete.

I did say I was gonna change my tune for the DLC. A practice I do NOT support... but oh well. If it's the only way for ME to have fun. I don't have any other choice do I?

I did say Begrudgingly.

The bolded is likely the answer.  Alm probably would need more investment to develop as he does not fight like Marth in anyway, unlike Celica, whose style is similar to his. I also think the fact that he is left handed would warrant new animations as well.

 

7 minutes ago, Lord-Zero said:

It was a terrible coverup on KT's part. If they REALLY wanted Celica, she was probably better off as DLC with proper development time rather than rushing to the microwave oven. She deserved better.

If anything, this pretty much spared Alm from getting a cloned moveset and it opens the possibility of a SoV DLC pack with Alm and most likely Faye as playable characters. 

Have you considered that Celica might have been one of the characters IS requested?

 

 

[LoboKD001]

1 minute ago, NoirCore said:

I'm happy, and I'd rather her be a clone than not be in the game. Tell me, can you confirm those said Celica fans you mentioned share your view that she shouldn't be in the game at all now for her cloned moveset?

I do know someone that he hoped celica wouls be in the game and wouls actually buy it but lost interest when hr learnt that celica is a clone and uses a sword

[?????]

3 minutes ago, Truthblade said:

The bolded is likely the answer.  Alm probably would need more investment to develop as he does not fight like Marth in anyway, unlike Celica, whose style is similar to his. I also think the fact that he is left handed would warrant new animations as well.

 

Have you considered that Celica might have been one of the characters IS requested?

 

 

I cannot believe I COMPLETELY forgot about that. Alm being left-handed.

Well. Alm Dlc. here's hoping.

Shame for Celica. She deserved better. I guess now we can all at least hope for the best on the DLC. Whatever may come out of it.

Edited September 21, 2017 by Saint_Stahn

[Lord-Zero]

5 minutes ago, Saint_Stahn said:

Alm Dlc sounds extremely likely now. And as you said, he was spared a much worse fate. As much as I hate Faye. if we get Alm as DLC with better treatment. Well. Can't complain.

Day 1 Purchase when he's announced. Unless Ike and Roy beat him to the punch.

Or in the likely scenario. Fates retainers. And we actually get Arthur.

Thats a purchase with Gusto.

Yes. It's probably safe to assume that SoV and Blazing Blade will get DLC packs within a year. Anyway, with Celica being confirmed, people will definitely want Alm. 

This also means that Eliwood was also spared from becoming either a Marth clone or a Xander clone so a Blazing Blade pack could have him, Hector and...probably Nino. 

SoV will most likely have Alm, Faye and maybe Berkut. 

 

 

[?????]

1 minute ago, Lord-Zero said:

Yes. It's probably safe to assume that SoV and Blazing Blade will get DLC packs within a year. Anyway, with Celica being confirmed, people will definitely want Alm. 

This also means that Eliwood was also spared from becoming either a Marth clone or a Xander clone so a Blazing Blade pack could have him, Hector and...probably Nino. 

SoV will most likely have Alm, Faye and maybe Berkut. 

 

 

A while back I thought Lyn was carrying Durandal. if Eliwood makes it in after all the crap he's been through. Thats a miracle in itself.

Ike, Roy, Alm... these 3 have amiibos. DLC is almost guaranteed for them. Hector is popular juggernaut and the 2nd most popular blazing sword character.

if Eliwood makes it in, thats a cause for rejoice no matter what.

[DefaultBeep]

Just now, Truthblade said:

The bolded is likely the answer.  Alm probably would need more investment to develop as he does not fight like Marth in anyway, unlike Celica, whose style is similar to his. I also think the fact that he is left handed would warrant new animations as well.

I forgot Alm was left handed; if Celica really was a late addition (which I currently believe she was), it would be much easier to have her copy another moveset since she's not left handed. I'm glad you're here to provide a calmer outlook in the midst of all this emotion right now, all of your observations have seemed spot-on so far.

[Lord-Zero]

9 minutes ago, Truthblade said:

Have you considered that Celica might have been one of the characters IS requested?

Like Lucina before her? Yes.

What made you think otherwise?