FE Warriors at TGS

[bethany81707]

13 minutes ago, Thane said:

I think the worst part is that the rosters wouldn't differ that much even if they adhered strictly to the main cast.

So far, we've got:

Sword: 11 – Rowan, Lianna, Marth, Navarre, Celica, Lyn, Chrom, Lucina, Corrin, Ryoma, Xander

Lance: 3 – Caeda, Cordelia, Hinoka

Axe: 3 – Lissa, Frederick, Camilla

Bow: 2 – Takumi, Sakura

Tome: 3 – Robin, Leo, Elise

Breath: 1 – Tiki

But if they had stuck solely to the protagonists/core cast of each game, we'd get: 

Sword: 12 - Marth, Alm, Sigurd, Leif, Seliph, Roy, Eliwood, Lyn, Eirika, Ike, Chrom, Lucina

Axe: 1 - Hector

Lance: 1 - Ephraim

Tome: 3 - Celica, Micaiah, Robin

Breath: 1 - Corrin

I feel like the differences aren't that big aside from the lack of archers in the latter list. And it would make sense for them to expand upon it with characters like Takumi anyway.

And if the situation got that dire (this is a cast of 18 Lords, so there's room), they could've given out alternate weapons to some of the swordies a la HW (thought that Ike was safe to send your Ephraim at? SURPRISE URVAN!). But honestly, at either point, it's better just to scrap the triangle.

[?????]

1 minute ago, Lord-Zero said:

Like Lucina before her? Yes.

What made you think otherwise? 

Why would they request her knowing they might turn her into a clone with the lack of dev time they had left? Couldn't they just wait for DLC to get more creative with her?

I guess they didn't mind her as a clone and wanted her asap in the base roster. Didn't really help her case.*shrugs*

They also probably thought it would attract the Echoes audience on the surface. Which it did. I guess.

[WyvernLord]

I think Intsys expected an earlier FEW release. So they threw Celica in there to sell a few more copies of SoV

[Gaia093]

Celica was a disappointment, though not an unexpected one. She would have had a far more interesting moveset if, say, her Y attacks were sword moves and the X ones were magic, ranging from Fire to Ragnarok. She is just clone-ish and boring like this, so I doubt I'll be using her much.

Edited September 21, 2017 by Gaia093

[Namarid]

50 minutes ago, RotomGuy said:

Actually from what i've seen Celica fans aren't happy. I know personally i'd rather have her excluded, and added later with a much more unique moveset than have her be a clone.

Of course that's assuming that she would've even been added later as DLC and given her a unique moveset.

If I was a Celica fan I would prefer her to be in the base game as a clone than hope that somewhere down the line she's available as DLC.

[Etrurian emperor]

Celica is in the game so I'm quite happy with that but I just do not understand the thought behind her moveset. If her late addition ensured she'd be a clone then why is she one of Marth? Celica can use swords but she's always been more of a mage so why not make her a Robin clone instead?

I'm not grumpy about cloned movesets getting in. If clones ensures that more character can enter the game then I'm all for it. Its a cheap and efficient way to buff up the roster. But there is one big flaw that presents itself. I can live with clones to expand the roster but if Koei went that way then why is the roster still so lacking? Where is Hardin riding around as a modified Xander? Why hasn't Minerva flown in as a slightly different Camilla? Putting in Walhard by making him a reskin of Frederik with a lot more power behind his blows would make him very easy to put into the game.

If they take the easy way out by adding clones then they lose much of the justification for essential characters not being there. If they can do it for Celica, Lyn and the little sisters they could do it for lots more characters.

[Gaia093]

4 minutes ago, Etrurian emperor said:

Celica is in the game so I'm quite happy with that but I just do not understand the thought behind her moveset. If her late addition ensured she'd be a clone then why is she one of Marth? Celica can use swords but she's always been more of a mage so why not make her a Robin clone instead?

Exactly. I'm not mad she's a clone, either - it's choosing swordplay as her main trait even though she could just be a magician's clone that disappoints me a lot. Magic was a far more pivotal part of Celica as a unit than the sword ever was.

 

By the way, who's Lyn a clone of? I have to admit that, other than several characters I like, I haven't been paying too much attention to gameplay.

Edited September 21, 2017 by Gaia093

[Etrurian emperor]

Also With both Celica and Lyn being into the game the leak is pretty much confirmed to be true. This means we can expect Anna which is something I'm really not feeling. I don't mind that she's in but that she's an archer is a very poor decision. She could have been a foot axers because Awakening and Shadow dragon just don't have any good options for that class. Anna would get in as a nice bit of tradition while filling a niche in the roster without standing in the way of any promising character. But the archers are different. Virion is one of the deeper Awakening characters and for once the possible Shadow dragon characters are actually promising. By entering as an Archer Anna is hindering better characters like Virion. Jeorge or even Gaggles.

[Folt]

49 minutes ago, phineas81707 said:

And if the situation got that dire (this is a cast of 18 Lords, so there's room), they could've given out alternate weapons to some of the swordies a la HW (thought that Ike was safe to send your Ephraim at? SURPRISE URVAN!). But honestly, at either point, it's better just to scrap the triangle.

They couldn't because the lords are just that established with their main weapon type.

[bethany81707]

4 minutes ago, Folt said:

They couldn't because the lords are just that established with their main weapon type.

Huh? ...Oh, thought it was clearer that I was talking about alternative accompanying movesets. My mistake.

[Lord-Zero]

@Saint_StahnProbably they didn't care as long as she was in. 

21 minutes ago, Etrurian emperor said:

I'm not grumpy about cloned movesets getting in. If clones ensures that more character can enter the game then I'm all for it. Its a cheap and efficient way to buff up the roster. 

Quality being thrown out the window for the sake of padding. Personally, I find such practice to be quite disgusting. This is so unlike Hyrule Warriors' roster that now I question if these same people actually worked on Hyrule Warriors. It's such a stark contrast. 

[Tenzen12]

2 hours ago, Truthblade said:

The problem is that a lot of this sounds like your own personal opinion. What exactly makes Fred and Lissa "moronic" when they are the servant and sister of the main protagonist of Awakening. I think that's a perfectly logical reason to include them . Same with Corrin's siblings. As for Cordelia, it was going to either be her or Sumia since they wanted to have pegasus rider for each focused game, but Cordelia won due to being more popular. 

 

Its because Magic In SoV does not work the same way as it does in the other games, so they Thought Celica would look odd fighting with a tome.

I also Think you just nailed it in your second sentence. Celica probably was chosen over Alm BECAUSE she can be cloned off Marth and would take less time to develop (since she was probably a late addition.)

Why she should have tome though? I mean all you need is make her clone of other magic users without book. 

Well, I dislike Celica so I don't give a damn how she fight, but for sake of argument I think it would be valid option. 

[Etrurian emperor]

3 minutes ago, Lord-Zero said:

@Saint_StahnProbably they didn't care as long as she was in. 

Quality being thrown out the window for the sake of padding. Personally, I find such practice to be quite disgusting. This is so unlike Hyrule Warriors' roster that now I question if these same people actually worked on Hyrule Warriors. It's such a stark contrast. 

Well, that's my problem. Not the practice but that cloning is used for padding rather then to fill essential slots in the roster.

[Lord-Zero]

4 minutes ago, Etrurian emperor said:

Well, that's my problem. Not the practice but that cloning is used for padding rather then to fill essential slots in the roster.

I'd rather have them take their time and make a quality roster instead of rushing to the microwave oven so often. 

[Folt]

1 minute ago, phineas81707 said:

Huh? ...Oh, thought it was clearer that I was talking about alternative accompanying movesets. My mistake.

In which case we'd have to downsize the roster because making movesets does take it's own share of resources. Which would leave us with these weapon types as the characters' main movesets:

Sword: Marth, Alm, Celica, Sigurd, Seliph, Leif, Roy, Lyn, Eliwood, Eirika, Ike, Chrom, Lucina, Corrin

Lance: Ephraim

Axe: Hector

Tome: Micaiah, Robin

Which is honestly extremely unbalanced in terms of reps for both classes and main weapons.

[bethany81707]

1 minute ago, Folt said:

In which case we'd have to downsize the roster because making movesets does take it's own share of resources. Which would leave us with these weapon types as the characters' main movesets:

Sword: Marth, Alm, Celica, Sigurd, Seliph, Leif, Roy, Lyn, Eliwood, Eirika, Ike, Chrom, Lucina, Corrin

Lance: Ephraim

Axe: Hector

Tome: Micaiah, Robin

Which is honestly extremely unbalanced in terms of reps for both classes and main weapons.

...I'm not really seeing where the issue here is.

[Yexin]

i find hilarious how i'm only recently starting to appreciate the game, with lyn's and celica's announcements, while this is the exact same reason why a lot of people stopped defending this game and being negative about it

i am honestly, deeply, sincerely happy about what this game is becoming, because it's what we have been promised with the original premise: "a warriors game featuring a lot of characters from different games except not actually"

if this game ends up being a complete failure, i'll be very happy

otherwise, i'll be very happy anyway

PS: still waiting to see dlc

Edited September 21, 2017 by Yexin

[Folt]

4 minutes ago, phineas81707 said:

...I'm not really seeing where the issue here is.

That Ephraim is having a ridiculous advantage over the majority of the roster because most of their primary weapons are swords. Hector is the big loser as well, wielding a type a majority of the roster have type advantage against.

Also, it's so cluttered with swords that there's really no reason to have the character switching mechanic either because there's no reason to have the weapon triangle. No reason to have a complex weapon system. No reason to deploy multiple characters per map either. Also, no real reason to have the mounted guys use horses because there's too effing few of them by default in this roster. No need for supereffective damage against certain types either because there's also too effing few of them.

Which honestly means there's no real reason to have secondaries in the first place, come to think about it.

The current main roster by contrast actually has multiples of Lances and Axes and actual Bow users and if we don't count the outliers (Lyn and Celica, but I'm being generous and am assuming that Navarre is playable) the sword count is actually one short of 10 which is great. Even with counting them (and I'm being generous to you and including Navarre in that), the amount of sword users isn't actually half of the roster yet, which is awesome.

[Noir]

I think Lyn and Celica are clearly last minute additions added when the developers noticed how salty the fanbase was getting over the game choices. But even if they've got the same movesets, they could have different properties (maybe Lyn can juggle better than Navarre, or is faster but has a weaker attack, or whatever...enough to make them feel different enough) Their inclusion seems to be like marmite, though...you're either really pleased or really annoyed.

So if the leak is true (and Navarre and Ceada are playable) the 'base' roster honestly isn't that bad. There's room for loads more expansion in Awakening (I don't like her, but Tharja was popular, then there's all the kids), Fates ( We put the little sisters in over Azura? Wut. She's arguably as important as Corrin, and we put in the two sisters.) and we don't know how much Shadow Dragon is in the roster (Navarre could be hope for secret characters...) and there's famous ones like Camus and Minerva to be added in there.

We're getting the expected crap out the way, so i'm hoping for some genuine surprise reveals out of TGS. I mean, it does strike me as odd we don't have a lance user that's not on a Pegasus, a thief class (we've seen chests and the like, so how do you open them?), and that we added dragonstones as a slot in the convoy exclusively for Tiki...

[LoboKD001]

Well im not upset anymore and the unneeded rage towards celica and her moveset has disappeared. Just need to scream a bit irl lol. Now i dont mind too much. Hopefully we can see something that we don't know such as new gameplay of history mode and etc

[bethany81707]

24 minutes ago, Folt said:

That Ephraim is having a ridiculous advantage over the majority of the roster because most of their primary weapons are swords. Hector is the big loser as well, wielding a type a majority of the roster have type advantage against.

Also, it's so cluttered with swords that there's really no reason to have the character switching mechanic either because there's no reason to have the weapon triangle. No reason to have a complex weapon system. No reason to deploy multiple characters per map either. Also, no real reason to have the mounted guys use horses because there's too effing few of them by default in this roster. No need for supereffective damage against certain types either because there's also too effing few of them.

Which honestly means there's no real reason to have secondaries in the first place, come to think about it.

The current main roster by contrast actually has multiples of Lances and Axes and actual Bow users and if we don't count the outliers (Lyn and Celica, but I'm being generous and am assuming that Navarre is playable) the sword count is actually one short of 10 which is great. Even with counting them (and I'm being generous to you and including Navarre in that), the amount of sword users isn't actually half of the roster yet, which is awesome.

...Did I miss something in Hyrule Warriors? Most of those got covered in some way or another. Hell, if a triangle is that important, use something akin to the Elemental system in Warriors instead of relying on swords->axes->lances. Use the fact there are generics enemies. And hey, if we don't need alternates, pegasus knights and horses are probably top of the list for additional character additions.

[Folt]

Just now, phineas81707 said:

...Did I miss something in Hyrule Warriors? Most of those got covered in some way or another. Hell, if a triangle is that important, use something akin to the Elemental system in Warriors instead of relying on swords->axes->lances. Use the fact there are generics enemies. And hey, if we don't need alternates, pegasus knights and horses are probably top of the list for additional character additions.

Except we're going by relationships to the main characters (and also importance and slight popularity factors). So we add Caeda, Tiki, Zephiel, Elincia, Black Knight, Ryoma, and Xander since those guys are pretty important and come from fairly well-known games (or in Caeda and Tiki's case, from the very first game)

Sword: +5

Lance: +1

Stone: +1

... Stiiiill missing a bow user. And I think the Swords issue got worse.

[Zangetsu]

I'm whining because I'm whining. I see no other reason to whine to whine. I like to whine because I'm whiny. I'm whining cuz I want to whine.

[TheWill]

I mean, speaking for plausibility sake... let's be real here people.

Warriors gameplay isn't exactly the most difficult to handle. Even though the weapon triangle is present, it is by no means going to be detrimental to gameplay. You'll be able to beat a hoard of lance users as Ryoma spamming the same combo just as you would if you were Camilla. What I'm guessing is going to happen is a small multiplicative factor that increases/decreases your damage, depending on the weapon triangle. But this is purely conjecture, I haven't been keeping up to date if it affects other things (hit stun, etc).

Edited September 21, 2017 by SlipperySlippy

[bethany81707]

6 minutes ago, Folt said:

Except we're going by relationships to the main characters (and also importance and slight popularity factors). So we add Caeda, Tiki, Zephiel, Elincia, Black Knight, Ryoma, and Xander since those guys are pretty important and come from fairly well-known games (or in Caeda and Tiki's case, from the very first game)

Sword: +5

Lance: +1

Stone: +1

... Stiiiill missing a bow user. And I think the Swords issue got worse.

Well, what bow user would you put in? It comes down to Takumi, Innes and maybe Jeorge or Evyel.

I think you're still pretty hung up on the "Too many swords=bad" thing. Really, the weapon triangle is rooted in fast versus bulky versus whatever lances are, so why not choose a system where someone like the light Lyn has an advantage over the bulky Ike, where he has an advantage over the intermediate Ephraim? The weapon triangle has only brought this game into disrepute whether it was followed religiously or disregarded in favour of popularity, so why are we still pretending it's a good idea?