FE Warriors at TGS

[omegaxis1]

6 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

Exactly. That's why I brought up Darius being the only possibility, because he looks like a heavy hitter himself AND even has a huge ass sword. But that's only if he's playable.

I'd prefer that Ike not be a clone, but I'd be okay with him getting cloned off of Darius if the moveset is cool enough and fits. And so long as Ike got his Aether animation in there somewhere too.

 

4 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

You don't know this for sure. Though that being said, I am losing hope of Ike being in the base game at all. Which is bullshit, because he deserves to be in especially if Lyn is there. It's really stupid and insulting to Ike fans to include the most popular female, but leave him out when he's the most popular male.

But now it looks like us Ike fans would have to shell out extra money for him. Again, bullshit. I wouldn't have minded if Lyn and other non-3DS characters were DLC too, but this just feels scummy.

I don't think that Ike is gonna be skipped over. Given that this is supposed to be picking characters from games that are popular due to how they were sold, and how Lyn got in because she's the most popular female character, Ike being in should be a definite as he's the most popular male and overall character. 

5 minutes ago, Folt said:

Navarre.

It's the other way around. Navarre is being shown after at best. So Navarre is the clone of Lyn.

[Lau]

1 minute ago, Anacybele said:

You don't know this for sure. Though that being said, I am losing hope of Ike being in the base game at all. Which is bullshit, because he deserves to be in especially if Lyn is there. It's really stupid and insulting to Ike fans to include the most popular female, but leave him out when he's the most popular male.

But now it looks like us Ike fans would have to shell out extra money for him. Again, bullshit. I wouldn't have minded if Lyn and other non-3DS characters were DLC too, but this just feels scummy.

Lyn was most likely a rushed, last-minute addition. She has a rather easy moveset to make, especially if it turns out she's very similar to Navarre. Ike, however, is a heavy hitter. Do we have one of those yet? Maybe Chrom, but he isn't quite...Ike-ish. You wouldn't want him to be rushed, right?

And it's not just you and the rest of the Ike fans who will have to 'shell out' extra money, the Roy fans will, the Ephraim fans, so on so forth. Just calm down. We could all be wrong and Ike could actually be in the base game, but we don't know yet. Wait until we're closer to the Japanese release because I guarantee you that someone will get an early copy and leak the entire roster.

[omegaxis1]

Way too much negativity here. 

[TheSS]

I'm pretty damn sure there's a bunch of characters we don't know about yet. I mean, even if we include Validar, there's only 16 fucntionally unique movesets across the characters we know about. That's tiny. Plus, we already know we're getting at least one knight.

[Anacybele]

4 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

I don't think that Ike is gonna be skipped over. Given that this is supposed to be picking characters from games that are popular due to how they were sold, and how Lyn got in because she's the most popular female character, Ike being in should be a definite as he's the most popular male and overall character. 

Yeah, but at this point, it's really looking like that box leak is the entire roster. Navarre could just be an NPC. I'm still holding onto hope that this isn't the case and that Ike and Azura are secret characters, but I'm not getting those hopes up too high.

4 minutes ago, Lau said:

Lyn was most likely a rushed, last-minute addition. She has a rather easy moveset to make, especially if it turns out she's very similar to Navarre. Ike, however, is a heavy hitter. Do we have one of those yet? Maybe Chrom, but he isn't quite...Ike-ish. You wouldn't want him to be rushed, right?

And it's not just you and the rest of the Ike fans who will have to 'shell out' extra money, the Roy fans will, the Ephraim fans, so on so forth. Just calm down. We could all be wrong and Ike could actually be in the base game, but we don't know yet. Wait until we're closer to the Japanese release because I guarantee you that someone will get an early copy and leak the entire roster.

No, I wouldn't want Ike to be rushed, no. That's why I'm hoping he wasn't and still made the base roster.

And those characters didn't win the CYL poll. Ike did. I assumed he would be in because Lyn is, since both won that poll and that seemed to be the reason Lyn was picked. So basically, Koei upped the hopes of Ike fans everywhere, only to seemingly shatter them at this point.

Edited September 21, 2017 by Anacybele

[The DanMan]

1 minute ago, omegaxis1 said:

It's the other way around. Navarre is being shown after at best. So Navarre is the clone of Lyn.

It's likely Navarre was added before Lyn, due to being from one of the focus games. Supplementary material often shows Navarre dual wielding-- something Lyn has been shown to do in a render. Lyn has never been shown dual wielding.

[TheSS]

Just now, Anacybele said:

Yeah, but at this point, it's really looking like that box leak is the entire roster. Navarre could just be an NPC. I'm still holding onto hope that this isn't the case and that Ike is a secret character, but I'm not getting those hopes up too high.

No, I wouldn't want Ike to be rushed, no. That's why I'm hoping he wasn't and still made the base roster.

And those characters didn't win the CYL poll. Ike did. I assumed he would be in because Lyn is, since both won that poll and that seemed to be the reason Lyn was picked. So basically, Koei upped the hopes of Ike fans everywhere, only to seemingly shatter them at this point.

We know for a fact it's not the whole roster. We were confirmed to be getting an armored knight with a lance. Besides, across the characters on the box art, there're only 15 unique movesets.

[Anacybele]

Just now, The DanMan said:

It's likely Navarre was added before Lyn, due to being from one of the focus games. Supplementary material often shows Navarre dual wielding-- something Lyn has been shown to do in a render. Lyn has never been shown dual wielding.

She uses her GBA animations though, something Navarre never had.

[Fireball260]

13 minutes ago, The DanMan said:

It's looking like a carbon copy of the affinity system from DW8, which actually has a very real effect on the gameplay-- it's the difference between blowing through officers and gradually grinding away at them while they get in good hits on you.

Honestly, Celica is the first reveal for the game I'm just disappointed in. She could've been so unique, but she's just a clone.

The Weapon Triangle have a large impact on damage in this game. During the demo we saw Camilla almost completely die to one combo from Lyn and at GamesCom we saw Hinoka lose almost half her heath to a generic fort captain, as well as doing significantly less damage to him than he did to her. 

Edited September 21, 2017 by Fireball260

[Anacybele]

1 minute ago, TheSS said:

We know for a fact it's not the whole roster. We were confirmed to be getting an armored knight with a lance. Besides, across the characters on the box art, there're only 15 unique movesets.

I don't remember any confirmation of this. Only that armors appear in the game at all, which could easily mean only as enemies or NPC generic allies.

[The DanMan]

Just now, Fireball260 said:

The Weapon Triangle have a large impact on damage in this game. During the demo we saw Camilla almost completely die to one combo from Lyn and at GamesCom we saw Hinoka lose almost half her heath to a generic fort captain.as well as doing significantly less damage to him than he did to her. 

Lances and magic reign supreme and axes get screwed, it seems. Definitely an authentic FE experience.

1 minute ago, Anacybele said:

She uses her GBA animations though, something Navarre never had.

In her musous and her map start/end animation. Like Celica with magic.

[omegaxis1]

Sometimes it feels like Lyn's inclusion might have been a mistake. When it was revealed that only SD, Awakening, and Fates characters were in, people judged it, but people began to gradually warm up to it. But with Lyn, it added something that feels now fans demanding their favorites to be in, from Ike, Ephraim, and so on. I think we should all calm down and relax ourselves. Take it as it comes, rather than let the tension, anger, and anxiety get to us. 

It leads to toxicity otherwise.

[Lau]

Let's just wait and see what the rest of TGS has in store for us, shall we? I am 95% positive that Navarre is playable, he's well known for being an enemy then being recruitable, which leads me to believe that Koei has a few secrets that, ffs, should have been revealed a lot earlier.

[Anacybele]

5 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

Sometimes it feels like Lyn's inclusion might have been a mistake. When it was revealed that only SD, Awakening, and Fates characters were in, people judged it, but people began to gradually warm up to it. But with Lyn, it added something that feels now fans demanding their favorites to be in, from Ike, Ephraim, and so on. I think we should all calm down and relax ourselves. Take it as it comes, rather than let the tension, anger, and anxiety get to us. 

It leads to toxicity otherwise.

I understand Ike fans' frustration since he has literally been the winner of multiple polls, including Japanese ones (Famitsu), and Azura fans being frustrated because MAIN FATES CHARACTER THAT HAS A LANCE, COME ON, but asking for others outside the three main games in the base roster at this point is kind of silly. Hell, I think Celica's inclusion was silly.

And it was never said that ONLY characters from those three games would be in, people kept forgetting that it said MOSTLY those three games. There's a difference.

So yeah, while the complaints about Ike and Azura being excluded here are legit to me, I agree, the toxicity is ridiculous.

And yes, we do need to calm down. I'm doing my best to, especially since I have a job interview later today.

Edited September 21, 2017 by Anacybele

[TheSS]

10 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

I don't remember any confirmation of this. Only that armors appear in the game at all, which could easily mean only as enemies or NPC generic allies.

There was an interview (Don't know where) where they said they made Frederick an axe unit because the on-foot armored knight used a lance.

[Folt]

1 minute ago, omegaxis1 said:

It's the other way around. Navarre is being shown after at best. So Navarre is the clone of Lyn.

No. Several things about Lyn makes it more likely that she was created after.

1. Navarre appears in the story. Lyn has had no scenes shown of her contributing or appearing in the story.
2. Lyn's clones only appear in her Musou Attack. We got to see some of Lyn's regular moveset as an opponent (and some snippets in some of the videos), and it focuses way too much on dual-swords (which is something Navarre has been associated with before Lyn).
3. Celica's showcase and her moveset indirectly implies that characters who weren't part of the focus games were likely late additions as extras to the roster thanks to her moveset being cloned from Marth (except for the specials) and similiarly not being shown appearing in any capacity in the game's story.
4. History Mode: Navarre is a character who comes from one of the focus games: Shadow Dragon, which is confirmed to have their own portion in History Mode so Navarre will likely have a not-so-little role there as well. Shadow Dragon having it's own portion in History Mode already implies that there's more characters from Shadow Dragon than just Marth, so it's highly likely that he's been planned as one of the SD reps in the roster since early/mid development as one of the Shadow Dragon reps.

And when characters get shown or when we find them plays no role into this: Duck Hunt Duo in Sm4sh was one of the earliest conceived newcomers but was one of the last revealed. Navarre might be a similiar case in that he's a character whom Tecmo Koei is keeping secret as a surprise for players to find when the game is released.

[omegaxis1]

1 minute ago, Anacybele said:

I understand Ike fans' frustration since he has literally been the winner of multiple polls, including Japanese ones (Famitsu), and Azura fans being frustrated because MAIN FATES CHARACTER THAT HAS A LANCE, COME ON, but asking for others outside the three main games in the base roster at this point is kind of silly. Hell, I think Celica's inclusion was silly.

And it was never said that ONLY characters from those three games would be in, people kept forgetting that it said MOSTLY those three games. There's a difference.

So yeah, while the complaints about Ike and Azura being excluded here are legit to me, I agree, the toxicity is ridiculous.

Mhm. Azura should be in because of how important she is in Fates. How she would work out in the Dancer Class for a Warriors game, no idea. However, if we can ask for just one character outside of the three main ones in, then it should be Ike. Ephraim's popularity aside despite my hatred for him, or Hector's, we should agree that out of those three, Ike has to be in, since this Warriors game should by all means be considered fanservice as well. 

Warriors crossover with Fire Emblem? Of course its fanservice.

[Armagon]

12 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

But now it looks like us Ike fans would have to shell out extra money for him. Again, bullshit. I wouldn't have minded if Lyn and other non-3DS characters were DLC too, but this just feels scummy.

Wait, so you'd complain if Ike was DLC but you wouldn't have minded it if Lyn and other non-3DS characters were DLC as well? *inhales* Yeah, i'm gonna have to point out the flaw in that argument. Because you'd still be paying for Ike regardless if this was the case.

And honestly, i don't see how DLC in this particular case is scummy. It's a Warriors game, DLC is to be expected. Saying that this game's DLC is scummy is like saying Hyrule Warriors' DLC was scummy. Azura's my most wanted character in this game, and if for some reason, she ends up as DLC, i'll gladly pay $5 for her.

The next thing you'll say is "but Ike is one of the most popular Fire Emblem characters. He shouldn't be DLC." Remember that Hyrule Warriors' DLC also had popular Zelda characters that weren't in the base game.

Also, you're making it sound like Ike would be the only DLC character.

 

6 minutes ago, The DanMan said:

Lyn has never been shown dual wielding

Actually

Spoiler

Lyn's Awakening artwork shows her dual-wielding.

 

 

[Anacybele]

3 minutes ago, TheSS said:

There was an interview (Don't know where) where they said they made Frederick an axe unit because the on-foot armored knight used a lance.

I remember that interview, but I don't remember them saying this in it.

1 minute ago, Armagon said:

Wait, so you'd complain if Ike was DLC but you wouldn't have minded it if Lyn and other non-3DS characters were DLC as well? *inhales* Yeah, i'm gonna have to point out the flaw in that argument. Because you'd still be paying for Ike regardless if this was the case.

And honestly, i don't see how DLC in this particular case is scummy. It's a Warriors game, DLC is to be expected. Saying that this game's DLC is scummy is like saying Hyrule Warriors' DLC was scummy. Azura's my most wanted character in this game, and if for some reason, she ends up as DLC, i'll gladly pay $5 for her.

The next thing you'll say is "but Ike is one of the most popular Fire Emblem characters. He shouldn't be DLC." Remember that Hyrule Warriors' DLC also had popular Zelda characters that weren't in the base game.

Also, you're making it sound like Ike would be the only DLC character.

No, you're misreading my words here. I said I wouldn't mind Ike being DLC if Lyn and Celica here were DLC too. But they're not, which makes me believe Ike also shouldn't be DLC in this case. But since Lyn and Celica are in the base roster, I don't like the idea of Ike being relegated to DLC when if they can be in the base roster, he can too.

[Folt]

3 minutes ago, TheSS said:

There was an interview (Don't know where) where they said they made Frederick an axe unit because the on-foot armored knight used a lance.

Found it: http://nintendoeverything.com/fire-emblem-warriors-devs-chrom-was-made-first-lissa-lucina-frederick-robin-talk-much-more/2/

Quote

Usuda: That’s correct. Frederick is not in the S rank, but he was projected to be added in the end. After all, when we are to choose important characters from Awakening, when including relations between characters into consideration, first of all it would have to start from the Shepherds. And the weapon type is also a big factor. When we lined up the character candidates, we didn’t have enough axe characters.

Character-wise, Great Knights have the trait of mounting a horse while armored. I think a lot of people would think Frederick fits with the Silver Lance, but it was a class that could use three weapon types [in the original game]. And since we also have the non-mounted and armored Knight that will use a spear, Great Knights shall end up appearing with an axe.

Besides, his conversations also have things like ‘definitely protecting Lord Chrom’ and ‘picking pebbles’, so due to those easily understandable traits, I had been sure to pick him from the beginning.

 

1 minute ago, Armagon said:

Actually

  Reveal hidden contents

Lyn's Awakening artwork shows her dual-wielding.

 

 

Which is probably one of the reasons for why they figured they could simply clone her from Navarre. Her character was already slapped over the generic (technically carrying dual blades) swordmaster unit from Awakening (and is dangerously close to being a regular Myrmidon/Swordmaster in ability) even if she doesn't actually have that ability in her mainline game.

[The DanMan]

@Armagon Okay, once in the Awakening DLC art. That's hardly Navarre dual wielding in both TCGs and the manga.

You know, there's something they could've done with Celica that wouldn't have been much extra work but made her a lot more unique: give her charges elemental properties. Then at least she stands out more as a spellblade type character. 

[HK Motendra]

2 minutes ago, The DanMan said:

@Armagon Okay, once in the Awakening DLC art. That's hardly Navarre dual wielding in both TCGs and the manga.

You know, there's something they could've done with Celica that wouldn't have been much extra work but made her a lot more unique: give her charges elemental properties. Then at least she stands out more as a spellblade type character. 

You mean like basically using the Flamberge combat arte?

Yo, that'd be lit

[Armagon]

17 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

No, you're misreading my words here. I said I wouldn't mind Ike being DLC if Lyn and Celica here were DLC too. But they're not, which makes me believe Ike also shouldn't be DLC in this case. But since Lyn and Celica are in the base roster, I don't like the idea of Ike being relegated to DLC when if they can be in the base roster, he can too.

What i am understanding here is that you'd think it'd be unfair if Ike were DLC but Lyn and Celica weren't. Which is understandable. Unfortunately, this unfairness would've happened regardless. If Ike was in the base game (which he still very well may be) but Lyn was DLC, would you still complain? Or let's say both Ike and Lyn are in the base game but Roy is DLC. Would you still complain then?

[ZeManaphy]

Seems unusual they focus on Celica, and not Alm, since he's the King of Valentia, but I guess they wanted more female representation/Magic users. It would be nice to see a conversation between Marth, Alm, or Celica, can considering Echoes happens few years after Shadow Dragon.

[Troykv]

1 hour ago, Folt said:

No. Several things about Lyn makes it more likely that she was created after.

1. Navarre appears in the story. Lyn has had no scenes shown of her contributing or appearing in the story.
2. Lyn's clones only appear in her Musou Attack. We got to see some of Lyn's regular moveset as an opponent (and some snippets in some of the videos), and it focuses way too much on dual-swords (which is something Navarre has been associated with before Lyn).
3. Celica's showcase and her moveset indirectly implies that characters who weren't part of the focus games were likely late additions as extras to the roster thanks to her moveset being cloned from Marth (except for the specials) and similiarly not being shown appearing in any capacity in the game's story.
4. History Mode: Navarre is a character who comes from one of the focus games: Shadow Dragon, which is confirmed to have their own portion in History Mode so Navarre will likely have a not-so-little role there as well. Shadow Dragon having it's own portion in History Mode already implies that there's more characters from Shadow Dragon than just Marth, so it's highly likely that he's been planned as one of the SD reps in the roster since early/mid development as one of the Shadow Dragon reps.

And when characters get shown or when we find them plays no role into this: Duck Hunt Duo in Sm4sh was one of the earliest conceived newcomers but was one of the last revealed. Navarre might be a similiar case in that he's a character whom Tecmo Koei is keeping secret as a surprise for players to find when the game is released.

I find the Smash!Duck Hunt and Navarre relationship funny because Navarre is Sakurai's Favorite Fire Emblem Character.

Edited September 21, 2017 by Troykv