FE Warriors at TGS

[SatsumaFSoysoy]

57 minutes ago, The DanMan said:

Stuff the core fandom finds controversial doesn't really matter to the broader one; that's something I thought would be obvious, considering FE's recent history.

So your point is that not that many people actually care? Not trying to be confrontational btw, but idk how else to phrase it lol.

[Arthur97]

Just now, LoboKD001 said:

Or perhaps they were a little interested in the game but they were 100% on it but if their fav character is in it then it gives them a reason to try the game.

Its like me with kingdom hearts 3. I am kinda interested in the game but i'll probably buy it if sephiroth comes back again cuz im not that big of a kingdom hearts fan

As a tipping point sure, but if the only reason you're getting it is Lyn, you should probably save your money. Especially since she'll probably not show up in story mode.

[LoboKD001]

Just now, Arthur97 said:

As a tipping point sure, but if the only reason you're getting it is Lyn, you should probably save your money. Especially since she'll probably not show up in story mode.

... Replay story mode with lyn perhaps?

Though we dont know if we can do that in few yet and u still got a point there

[maybe]

1 minute ago, Arthur97 said:

I meant that she contributes nothing to the plot as far as we can tell and is in likelihood, a clone.

It still seems odd to me to make such a large purchase for one character.

the plot isn't exactly something people care about in these games, and i sure as hell don't care about whatever they're doing with it

whether she's a "clone" or not isn't really relevant to what people are gonna think, since the only character so far who she might have similar moves to is navarre, who hasn't been officially revealed yet and isn't being pushed at all, to the point that the only reason we know he's in the game is because they forgot to edit out a pic where part of his outfit was visible behind marth. they might have similar moves, but people certainly aren't going to be disappointed that lyn has the same moves as navarre (if she does), at most people will probably think "oh wow navarre has the same moves as lyn". calling lyn a clone would be like calling marth a clone of roy in smash bros melee

either way, the big draw of this game is the characters, so even if the gameplay looks cool not as many people are gonna go for it if it doesn't have characters they like. i thought it looked neat, but there was only one character i sorta liked out of all the revealed characters.  now that there's a character who i'd really want to play as i'm definitely convinced that I want to play it

[EricaofRenais]

53 minutes ago, Tolvir said:

I dont think anyone is complaining about Lyn and Celica being included. I think what is being misunderstood is that people, and rightfully so, are upset with the developers of the game. They claimed early on that the game was limited to reduce the amount of swords in the game. That answer was completely reasonable. Some had an issue with it because all we had at the time were sword users, but as some of the other weapon users started rolling in things were clearing up a bit. Their comment made sense.

Then they announce not 1, but 2 more sword users. On top of this, a lot of SD fans are, again rightfully upset, because while being one of the 3 main games, they feel that it is getting pushed to the side. We know of Tiki and Caeda, but if that is all SD gets then the SD fans have an entirely legitimate reason to be pissed.

I personally think this was a product of bad timing. I think SD's cast should of been revealed by now, leaving only these "surprise" announcements for TGS. That way all the characters expected are out of the way, and it leaves Lyn, Celica, Anna, etc. for actually surprising announcements. Unfortunately, the leak also had an unfortunate effect on it all.

The problem isnt with Lyn and Celica, it never was. Its with Koei and their atrocious PR for this game.

this is how I feel I like Lyn (same name as my big sis), but the PR is horrid.  I had resigned myself to the fact that most of my favorites would not be in the game after them stating that only three games would be used, then out of left field comes Lyn and Celica.  The only character I was holding out hope for was Minerva but I don't have much hope left.  I am still going to buy and play the game, but the PR has made me go from planing to buy the LE to just buying the regular edition with a coupon.

[Interdimensional Observer]

14 minutes ago, Arthur97 said:

I meant that she contributes nothing to the plot as far as we can tell and is in likelihood, a clone.

Well they can always go back and invent a side role for her. As in "While X was happening to Blonde Sun Shangxiang and her brother Odin's Second/Third/Fourth Child and their crew, Celica and Lyn were going around doing Y, which actually played a role in Z, which was important to the plot".

And having Lyn means we can have history battles from FE7. Well at the least the 11 Lyn Mode fights, and maybe Noble Lady of Caelin, which I do think would make for a great Musou battlefield, possibly even better if we juxtaposed with it The Distant Plains.

Edited September 21, 2017 by Interdimensional Observer

[Arthur97]

1 minute ago, LoboKD001 said:

... Replay story mode with lyn perhaps?

Though we dont know if we can do that in few yet and u still got a point there

Free play is almost guaranteed I'd say.

1 minute ago, unique said:

the plot isn't exactly something people care about in these games, and i sure as hell don't care about whatever they're doing with it

whether she's a "clone" or not isn't really relevant to what people are gonna think, since the only character so far who she might have similar moves to is navarre, who hasn't been officially revealed yet and isn't being pushed at all, to the point that the only reason we know he's in the game is because they forgot to edit out a pic where part of his outfit was visible behind marth. they might have similar moves, but people certainly aren't going to be disappointed that lyn has the same moves as navarre (if she does), at most people will probably think "oh wow navarre has the same moves as lyn". calling lyn a clone would be like calling marth a clone of roy in smash bros melee

either way, the big draw of this game is the characters, so even if the gameplay looks cool not as many people are gonna go for it if it doesn't have characters they like. i thought it looked neat, but there was only one character i sorta liked out of all the revealed characters.  now that there's a character who i'd really want to play as i'm definitely convinced that I want to play it

Actually, in this situation, calling Lyn the clone would almost certainly be accurate. 

As you say, characters are the main draw, but the question still stands: why buy it for one character? If you only want to play Lyn, why subject yourself to those you don't want to play as who greatly outnumber the one.

2 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Well they can always go back and invent a side role for her. As in "While X was happening to Blonde Sun Shangxiang and her brother Odin's Second/Third/Fourth Child and their crew, Celica and Lyn were going around doing Y, which actually played a role in Z, which was important to the plot".

And having Lyn means we can have history battles from FE7. Well at the least the 11 Lyn Mode fights, and maybe Noble Lady of Caelin, which I do think would make for a great Musou battlefield, possibly even better if we juxtaposed with it The Distant Plains.

History battles with one character?

[Interdimensional Observer]

Just now, Arthur97 said:

History battles with one character?

Well the player can fill in on Lyn Mode battles. And for NLoC, have the player fill in for Eliwood and Hector's team, and throw some appropriately named generics to Lyn, or staff her with player units too.

[bethany81707]

Next stream is at noon? I might actually make that...

It'll be close, though.

[Arthur97]

2 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Well the player can fill in on Lyn Mode battles. And for NLoC, have the player fill in for Eliwood and Hector's team, and throw some appropriately named generics to Lyn, or staff her with player units too.

So...Lissa in place of Hector? She can a lift a grown man in armor and his armored horse and swing them around like they're nothing so it may fit better than you'd think.

Anyways, I wouldn't expect much from Blazing Blade or Echoes.

[The DanMan]

13 minutes ago, SatsumaFSoysoy said:

So your point is that not that many people actually care? Not trying to be confrontational btw, but idk how else to phrase it lol.

Really, what I was trying to say was it's not a huge deal overall and people should probably start to settle down.
Of course, going on a ramble about that is in some ways hypocritical...

[maybe]

1 minute ago, Arthur97 said:

Actually, in this situation, calling Lyn the clone would almost certainly be accurate. 

As you say, characters are the main draw, but the question still stands: why buy it for one character? If you only want to play Lyn, why subject yourself to those you don't want to play as who greatly outnumber the one.

my point isn't that she's a "clone" or not

it's that it doesn't actually matter, it's just two characters sharing the same moves. and as of now, to people who haven't been thinking far too deeply about a single frame of a red outfit visible in one version of a trailer, they're lyn's moves

even in a hypothetical world where lyn was the only character I wanted to play as, I'd probably still buy the game because there's no way to only buy the part where I play as lyn

sure I wouldn't care about anyone else in the game, but I wouldn't want to pass up an opportunity to play as a character I love, so I'd buy the game anyway

[NeonZ]

18 minutes ago, Arthur97 said:

History battles with one character?

They can throw Robin to stand in for Mark (considering the Awakening conversation where she claims that the avatar is Mark) and give someone for her to interact with, and then play out a summarized version of her tutorial story with generics replacing the named villains (or even some unique NPCs if she isn't as last minute as she looks at this point). Deal with brigands, deal with assassins, learn about her identity, go to her kingdom and retake it.

As I understand it, troop deployment isn't really limited based on the story aside from specific cases, so you'll just use other units of your choice to fill in the rest  of the army.

Edited September 21, 2017 by NeonZ

[Arthur97]

Just now, NeonZ said:

They can throw Robin to stand in for Mark and play out a summarized version of her tutorial story with generics replacing the named villains (or even some unique NPCs if she isn't as last minute as she looks at this point). Deal with brigands, deal with assassins, learn about her identity, go to her kingdom and retake it.

As I understand it, troop deployment isn't really limited based on the story aside from specific cases, so you'll just use other units of your choice to fill in the rest  of the army.

Except Mark couldn't fight.

[Anomalocaris]

Just now, NeonZ said:

They can throw Robin to stand in for Mark and play out a summarized version of her tutorial story with generics replacing the named villains (or even some unique NPCs if she isn't as last minute as she looks at this point). Deal with brigands, deal with assassins, learn about her identity, go to her kingdom and retake it.

As I understand it, troop deployment isn't really limited based on the story aside from specific cases, so you'll just use other units of your choice to fill in the rest  of the army.

Turn Batta the Beast into a generic? Your blaspheme will not go unpunished.

[Zangetsu]

2 hours ago, The DanMan said:

@omegaxis1 @Zangetsu Virtually nobody outside of the core fandom is complaining about Lyn's and Celica's inclusion; there's a far more positive slant in general outside this little bubble of the fandom.

 

So in other words the casual fanbase is more or less taking it in strides? Do you have any idea how pathetic it is that only those who trying to just enjoy what FE Warriors are the ones being more reasonable than the dedicated fandom?

 

1 hour ago, Tolvir said:

I dont think anyone is complaining about Lyn and Celica being included. I think what is being misunderstood is that people, and rightfully so, are upset with the developers of the game. They claimed early on that the game was limited to reduce the amount of swords in the game. That answer was completely reasonable. Some had an issue with it because all we had at the time were sword users, but as some of the other weapon users started rolling in things were clearing up a bit. Their comment made sense.

Then they announce not 1, but 2 more sword users. On top of this, a lot of SD fans are, again rightfully upset, because while being one of the 3 main games, they feel that it is getting pushed to the side. We know of Tiki and Caeda, but if that is all SD gets then the SD fans have an entirely legitimate reason to be pissed.

I personally think this was a product of bad timing. I think SD's cast should of been revealed by now, leaving only these "surprise" announcements for TGS. That way all the characters expected are out of the way, and it leaves Lyn, Celica, Anna, etc. for actually surprising announcements. Unfortunately, the leak also had an unfortunate effect on it all.

The problem isnt with Lyn and Celica, it never was. Its with Koei and their atrocious PR for this game.

& Why the hell should there be unfortunate effect to begin with? It's one thing when someone is complaining the moveset of a character but it's another when that character has been fan favorite to begin with. Let Shadow Dragon have their Hardin. God knows no 1 gives 2 shits about Validar. Everyone has the right to complain about something but there's a difference between complaining & over reacting.

 

1 hour ago, Folt said:

There were also plenty outside of the core fandom who also didn't care either way. There's certainly people who did go that far, but if anything, they were a very vocal minority. Either way, the affect of their inclusion or noninclusion towards the game's sales is uncertain, but they'd be about equal either way.

Once again, pathetic on the fandom but what else is new in the FE community?

 

45 minutes ago, Arthur97 said:

As a tipping point sure, but if the only reason you're getting it is Lyn, you should probably save your money. Especially since she'll probably not show up in story mode.

& yet Lucina is the only reason why I want to get this game with Lyn being a bonus. O wait Lucy a clone, guess I can't get the game anymore.

 

30 minutes ago, The DanMan said:

Really, what I was trying to say was it's not a huge deal overall and people should probably start to settle down.
Of course, going on a ramble about that is in some ways hypocritical...

Maybe I wouldn't have if people didn't start over reacting to begin with. But whatever, I can at least admit I'm a kettle

[Jedi]

1 hour ago, Arthur97 said:

As a tipping point sure, but if the only reason you're getting it is Lyn, you should probably save your money. Especially since she'll probably not show up in story mode.

I've seen people buy fighters and other games just for the chance of being able to play as one character, even in dedicated Team based fighters. The value of being able to play as ones favorite even if they don't care for the rest of it, has a sway for some.

I knew some fellow DoA players who actually played Ninja Gaiden 3 Razors Edge just because of the Kasumi and Ayane stuff too. Despite not being fans of tough action games like I am.

Edited September 22, 2017 by Jedi

[SMinairo]

40 minutes ago, Arthur97 said:

Except Mark couldn't fight.

What? Of course he could, we just didn't play the right outrealm. Why do you think that the emblem blade (mark's sword in japanese) exist?

Outrealms are so convenient.

[Tolvir]

25 minutes ago, Zangetsu said:

So in other words the casual fanbase is more or less taking it in strides? Do you have any idea how pathetic it is that only those who trying to just enjoy what FE Warriors are the ones being more reasonable than the dedicated fandom?

 

& Why the hell should there be unfortunate effect to begin with? It's one thing when someone is complaining the moveset of a character but it's another when that character has been fan favorite to begin with. Let Shadow Dragon have their Hardin. God knows no 1 gives 2 shits about Validar. Everyone has the right to complain about something but there's a difference between complaining & over reacting.

 

Once again, pathetic on the fandom but what else is new in the FE community?

 

& yet Lucina is the only reason why I want to get this game with Lyn being a bonus. O wait Lucy a clone, guess I can't get the game anymore.

 

Maybe I wouldn't have if people didn't start over reacting to begin with. But whatever, I can at least admit I'm a kettle

What? Just. What?

My point of unfortunate was that it ruined the surprise that originally was a Lyn and Celica reveal. That was my point by saying that.

Again. I am not against the inclusion of Lyn. I am not against the inclusion of Celica. BUT I think this could of been handled a hell of a lot better, and that is for the entirety of FE Warriors PR.

Edited September 22, 2017 by Tolvir

[Zangetsu]

1 minute ago, Tolvir said:

What? Just. What?

My point of unfortunate was that it ruined the surprise that originally was a Lyn and Celica reveal. That was my point by saying that.

Again. I am not against the inclusion of Lyn. I am not against the inclusion of Celica. BUT I think this could of been handled a hell of a lot better, and that is for the entirety of FE Warriors PR.

Leaks are always disappointing but those 2 characters shouldn't be deal breaker. I won't for the life of me understand why Alm isn't in the game but that's not a good excuse slam Celica like that. It's the outburst on Lyn that's pissing me off to no ends.

[Interdimensional Observer]

15 minutes ago, Sbuscoz said:

What? Of course he could, we just didn't play the right outrealm. Why do you think that the emblem blade (mark's sword in japanese) exist?

Outrealms are so convenient.

Mark did actually have stats hidden in FE7, but they aren't pretty.

Spoiler

Tactician

Class: Prince (Tactician)
Affinity: None
Weapon Ranks: None
Notes: Has generic growth rates (the class name is likely a placeholder), also has data as a Mage

Base Stats/Caps

Type	HP	S/M	Skl	Spd	Lck	Def	Res	Con
Tactician base	10	0	0	0	0	0	0	1
Stat addition	0	0	0	0	0	2	-1	0
Base stats	10	0	0	0	0	2	-1	1
Tactician caps	/60	/20	/20	/20	/30	/20	/20	/20

Growth Rates

HP	S/M	Skl	Spd	Lck	Def	Res
85%	25%	60%	10%	25%	15%	15%

 

[Tolvir]

7 minutes ago, Zangetsu said:

Leaks are always disappointing but those 2 characters shouldn't be deal breaker. I won't for the life of me understand why Alm isn't in the game but that's not a good excuse slam Celica like that. It's the outburst on Lyn that's pissing me off to no ends.

That.................wasnt my point yet again. My point was that the leak ruined what was meant to be a cool reveal. I am really not understanding what you are getting at here. Either you are agreeing with me and I just am not realizing it, or you are arguing with me. Cant tell here.

Either way it isnt that those 2 are the deal breaker, I think a lot of people have a legitimate reason to be upset because of everything KOEI said. It isnt the characters, its Koei. If we had a reverse situation, where we got all the other character announcements first. We got our other lance users besides pegasus knights. We got our Armor. We got a few more axes. And THEN we announced Celica and Lyn, the reaction would of been completely different.

Edited September 22, 2017 by Tolvir

[Zangetsu]

1 minute ago, Tolvir said:

That.................wasnt my point yet again. My point was that the leak ruined what was meant to be a cool reveal. I am really not understanding what you are getting at here. Either you are agreeing with me and I just am not realizing it, or you are arguing with me. Cant tell here.

Either way it isnt that those 2 are the deal breaker, I think a lot of people have a legitimate reason to be upset because of everything KOEI said. It isnt the characters, its Koei. If we had a reverse situation, where we got all the other character announcements first. We got our other lance users besides pegasus knights. We got our Armor. We got a few more axes. And THEN we announced Celica and Lyn, the reaction would of been completely different.

Crappy marketing strategy, but there's only so much I can take regarding people so called "rightful reaction"

I appreciate you taking time to explain all this to me & I'm sorry I'm being antagonistic but I'm just pissed off at the community. So what better way to vent out then lashing out on the community & reddit?

[SMinairo]

14 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Mark did actually have stats hidden in FE7, but they aren't pretty.

  Reveal hidden contents

Tactician

Class: Prince (Tactician)
Affinity: None
Weapon Ranks: None
Notes: Has generic growth rates (the class name is likely a placeholder), also has data as a Mage

Base Stats/Caps

Type	HP	S/M	Skl	Spd	Lck	Def	Res	Con
Tactician base	10	0	0	0	0	0	0	1
Stat addition	0	0	0	0	0	2	-1	0
Base stats	10	0	0	0	0	2	-1	1
Tactician caps	/60	/20	/20	/20	/30	/20	/20	/20

Growth Rates

HP	S/M	Skl	Spd	Lck	Def	Res
85%	25%	60%	10%	25%	15%	15%

 

Wow, THAT is an avatar, finally someone who I can relate with, not a dragon or the bringer of destruction.

[Tolvir]

11 minutes ago, Zangetsu said:

Crappy marketing strategy, but there's only so much I can take regarding people so called "rightful reaction"

I appreciate you taking time to explain all this to me & I'm sorry I'm being antagonistic but I'm just pissed off at the community. So what better way to vent out then lashing out on the community & reddit?

Sure, a lot of the complaints happening, especially over on reddit, has been pretty bad. Out of maybe the 2 or 3 legitimate arguments, you have another 10 that are just people complaining to complain.

Its all good though, I can understand. I was one of the people really trying to defend this game early on, through all of the sword arguments and jokes were being thrown around, and people getting pissed about how it was just the 3 games. So I know how it feels.

Edited September 22, 2017 by Tolvir