Tolvir Posted September 23, 2017 Author Share Posted September 23, 2017 With Azura being confirmed to be out, I am starting to wonder about any "surprise" announcements. Im thinking we may very well have just a 25 roster at the start, with Anna being the only one left to be announced. Im thinking Navarre is likely a NPC, considering they can throw bullshit reasons to cut characters out without any issue. Who says they just suddenly decided to care about too many swords, and cut Navarre? Its entirely possible at this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeonZ Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 Why would they go out of their way to remove Navarre from a video and never feature any stages with him as an enemy though? They'd probably just have done a low key reveal like Validar's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightchao42 Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 3 minutes ago, Tolvir said: With Azura being confirmed to be out, I am starting to wonder about any "surprise" announcements. Im thinking we may very well have just a 25 roster at the start, with Anna being the only one left to be announced. Im thinking Navarre is likely a NPC, considering they can throw bullshit reasons to cut characters out without any issue. Who says they just suddenly decided to care about too many swords, and cut Navarre? Its entirely possible at this point. I think Celica was meant to be a surprise announcement, but the boxart kind of ruined that. They might've cut Navarre after being told to include Lyn after the CYL poll, and they gave his moveset to her because a) they didn't want too many swords and b) so the time spent on him wouldn't be wasted. If this is true, he was left as an NPC because he was already modeled and they didn't want to change any cutscenes. Given the reasons for Azura's exclusion I could see it happening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tolvir Posted September 23, 2017 Author Share Posted September 23, 2017 2 minutes ago, Lightchao42 said: I think Celica was meant to be a surprise announcement, but the boxart kind of ruined that. They might've cut Navarre after being told to include Lyn after the CYL poll, and they gave his moveset to her because a) they didn't want too many swords and b) so the time spent on him wouldn't be wasted. If this is true, he was left as an NPC because he was already modeled and they didn't want to change any cutscenes. Given the reasons for Azura's exclusion I could see it happening. Im meaning surprise as in characters past the 25 mark. Im really starting to doubt we go above 25 for our base roster, which would honestly be dissapointing. Why have so many clones if you arent planning on really pushing some limits on the roster. Clones in this game are starting to go from reasonable to get more characters in, to just pure laziness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightchao42 Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 Just now, Tolvir said: Im meaning surprise as in characters past the 25 mark. Im really starting to doubt we go above 25 for our base roster, which would honestly be dissapointing. Why have so many clones if you arent planning on really pushing some limits on the roster. Clones in this game are starting to go from reasonable to get more characters in, to just pure laziness. Well technically it would only be 23 characters since female Robin and male Corrin aren't counted separately. How much I mind clones depends on a case by case basis, but I think Celica deserved better than being a Marth clone, and Sakura and Elise are hardly necessary even disregarding the fact that Azura wasn't included because of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tolvir Posted September 23, 2017 Author Share Posted September 23, 2017 (edited) 1 minute ago, Lightchao42 said: Well technically it would only be 23 characters since female Robin and male Corrin aren't counted separately. How much I mind clones depends on a case by case basis, but I think Celica deserved better than being a Marth clone, and Sakura and Elise are hardly necessary even disregarding the fact that Azura wasn't included because of them. Considering all their other BS excuses, they could easily go out and say that Corrin and Robin count towards the roster count at this point. Even though they said otherwise earlier. Edited September 23, 2017 by Tolvir Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeonZ Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Lightchao42 said: Given the reasons for Azura's exclusion I could see it happening. Eh? They said they cut Azura because Fates already had too many characters. That's definitely not the case for Shadow Dragon. Fates has 9(10) characters, significantly more than even Awakening at this point. Regarding cutting the younger sisters for her, Azura would need an unique moveset though, she wouldn't be able to be a clone. Edited September 23, 2017 by NeonZ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightchao42 Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 3 minutes ago, NeonZ said: Eh? They said they cut Azura because Fates already had too many characters. That's definitely not the case for Shadow Dragon. Fates has 9(10) characters, significantly more than even Awakening at this point. I know that, it was mostly in reference to "Half the roster is already swords, let's cut one and add a more popular one instead" But my main point is "generally poor decision making thus far" (they already cut Azura for a dumb reason so why wouldn't they cut Navarre for a dumb reason) They admitted that Shadow Dragon is only included because of Marth so I don't think giving it proper representation is a high priority. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Etrurian emperor Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 36 minutes ago, Lightchao42 said: They admitted that Shadow Dragon is only included because of Marth so I don't think giving it proper representation is a high priority. I really think developers should let go of the idea that they are beholden to Marth and his crew. They aren't. I'm pretty sure many Western fans will actually prefer other lords and while the Japanese might have stronger feelings on the matter I doubt they would boycott the game on mass if he wasn't there. But did they ever really put it like that? I recall them saying something like that Marth being the original one ''of course'' makes him a likely pick but the way you put it its sounding as if they admitted in a more negative way that they couldn't afford to get rid of him. From what I recall the statement didn't sound that negative towards Marth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lau Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 ^You guys are seriously wounding me here. Don't remind me about Marth's declining popularity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Etrurian emperor Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 8 minutes ago, Lau said: ^You guys are seriously wounding me here. Don't remind me about Marth's declining popularity. Oh Marth's popularity doesn't strike me as undeserved. But its this reverence to his character and status which strikes me as a bit artificial. As a character Marth still seems appreciated and for good reasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noir Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 Like, i've tried to defend the really bad roster choices at almost every turn, but if our base roster is really 25 with two Robins and two Corrins, three identical pegasi, two Marths, two Leos and two Takumis, there's not really much to be said. uhh. I guess the fact that some of the best movesets in Hyrule Warriors come from DLC could be a positive...? If this game will do DLC there's an awful lot of potential. Just like the potential that a roster of SD/Awakening/Fates originally had. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lau Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 4 minutes ago, Etrurian emperor said: Oh Marth's popularity doesn't strike me as undeserved. But its this reverence to his character and status which strikes me as a bit artificial. As a character Marth still seems appreciated and for good reasons. Putting my bias aside... I'll admit, IS and everyone should let him take a break, his had his run for 27 years now, let him rest for a bit. But I feel like...it wouldn't be Fire Emblem without him. He's the original lord, he set the standards, and while multiple lords have surpassed those standards, I'm just really glad that he has managed to remain relevant. But I go around different forums, and I see people spouting negativity about him and saying that he's being shoved in their faces when he really isn't. The ones being shoved in our faces are two other lords who I won't mention. And...idk. I have a really strong attachment to Marth - he was the one who got me into FE, and he's who I main in Smash. He was also my first nendoroid and amiibo... But that's just getting off topic. Sorry about that, I needed to get that out. When they said that SD would be one of the main games in Warriors, I was excited because...development for the SD cast! I'll get to see them in glorious HD! And now they're getting shafted, which I was prepared for, but...not like this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightchao42 Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 49 minutes ago, Etrurian emperor said: But did they ever really put it like that? I recall them saying something like that Marth being the original one ''of course'' makes him a likely pick but the way you put it its sounding as if they admitted in a more negative way that they couldn't afford to get rid of him. From what I recall the statement didn't sound that negative towards Marth. The exact quote was: Quote Hayashi: Yes. So among those three titles, the reason why we chose Shadow Dragon is simple. A Fire Emblem without Marth is not a Fire Emblem after all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeonZ Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 (edited) The Marth situation could be solved if IS made an original title that were a direct sequel to FE3 (to avoid making yet another remake), but if something like that doesn't happen it does create a fairly big split, since his games are seen as irrelevant in the West, due to the only localized one being Shadow Dragon, which was problematic in multiple ways. Maybe they could make it a FE3-type package again, with a new game and another remake of FE1 using recycled assets from the new game (so, missing some content from the original) in the new engine in the same package. Edited September 23, 2017 by NeonZ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wissenschaft Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 I thought awakening was the sequel......sort of. :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSS Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 Honestly, there better be a ton of characters not yet announced. We only have 15 unique movesets. 17 if you count the knight and the dark mage. Hyrule Warriors had 24. Now, I don't think FEW needs to have exactly as many, but it should have 20 at the least. And more clones, damnit. I want my favs in the game. I don't even care if you make heroes clones of Chrom, just give me Inigo and Odin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interdimensional Observer Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 10 hours ago, DefaultBeep said: Don't remind me about Bandana Dee, I'm still upset about that. Sakurai failed us all. My sympathies, the Kirby trio (K KD3 and MK) has become a Kirby quartet and Smash should acknowledge this. That Validar may seriously be part of the roster is just tone deaf to me, and is a real turnoff. What, just what has been going through the development process with this game? Hopefully a post-release interview will spill the beans on what has been total absurdity to the outside world. Well, I don't like Draug, or Kellam, or Effie, but I'm just going to lean back and hope however gets in fights interestingly. If they get in, they never outright said an Armor would be playable (they could invent a "they're not player friendly, so we didn't try" excuse). I'm sad that Lissa is the lone axe infantry so far. She'll be fun sure, but what about a more standard axe user? We need a fighter, or a hero even. And how haven't we been shown a Lance Cav? You'd expect one of those by a metaphorical day four at the latest. Part of me just wishes that KT is hiding a metric ton of good stuff until the game launches, SoV did carefully avoid showing Zeke for forever after all. 12 minutes ago, NeonZ said: The Marth situation could be solved if IS made an original title that were a direct sequel to FE3 (to avoid making yet another remake), but if something like that doesn't happen it does create a fairly big split, since his games are seen as irrelevant in the West, due to the only localized one being Shadow Dragon, which was problematic in multiple ways. Just how would that work? Marth is king of the continent by the end of FE3, and Alm is too good to war with Marth. Does Marth suddenly have to defeat Loptyr reborn in Jugdral? It'd be a rectal grab. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pizzaface Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 So, do you think they will reveal Anna today (tomorrow depending on time zone) ? Or do you think they want to keep her secret? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSS Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 Oh, crap. You know how we've been predicting that dark mage moveset? Well, from what we've seen, Validar uses the same dark magic attack that looks like it's probably Robin's C5. We haven't seen a player use it, but Robin used as an enemy shortly after his C4, Thoron, and there's a place in his combo after his 4th attack that's too perfect for it. But... wouldn't that mean Validar can use light magic? That doesn't seem right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tolvir Posted September 23, 2017 Author Share Posted September 23, 2017 What time is tonight's show? And do we know what they are covering? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medeus Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 31 minutes ago, NeonZ said: The Marth situation could be solved if IS made an original title that were a direct sequel to FE3 (to avoid making yet another remake), but if something like that doesn't happen it does create a fairly big split, since his games are seen as irrelevant in the West, due to the only localized one being Shadow Dragon, which was problematic in multiple ways. Maybe they could make it a FE3-type package again, with a new game and another remake of FE1 using recycled assets from the new game (so, missing some content from the original) in the new engine in the same package. Honestly I think they should do that, as you say there's a huge disconnect between Japanese and Western fans when it comes to his games and only releasing a remake that's generally regarded as mediocre by both audiences didn't help. Bringing over what's considered his stronger game and giving it the updates it needs would be perfect for reintroducing his story and could get both it and the characters within it a lot more fans similar to what happened with Echoes. Granted, I doubt it'd be a high priority since a new game is in the pipeline and in terms of remakes FE4 or FE6 seem to have more popularity backing them, but it's something worth considering if they want to keep Marth as their main lord of the series. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azz Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Pizzaface said: So, do you think they will reveal Anna today (tomorrow depending on time zone) ? Or do you think they want to keep her secret? I hope so. I mean they can't really keep her a secret since we have already seen her. 4 minutes ago, TheSS said: Oh, crap. You know how we've been predicting that dark mage moveset? Well, from what we've seen, Validar uses the same dark magic attack that looks like it's probably Robin's C5. We haven't seen a player use it, but Robin used as an enemy shortly after his C4, Thoron, and there's a place in his combo after his 4th attack that's too perfect for it. But... wouldn't that mean Validar can use light magic? That doesn't seem right. TBH, I think this whole 'dark mage moveset' doesn't exist. From everything we have seen of Validar, he seems just like Robin with a different skin and a different musou/awakening if he is playable. @Tolvir GMT=7:00 a.m. (8 a.m. for those in UK or Ireland like me) Australia is 5:00 p.m. They are gonna be doing previews for all playable characters with Xander and Lianna's VA's guest starring. Relevant link to stream on YT. Edited September 23, 2017 by Azz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tolvir Posted September 23, 2017 Author Share Posted September 23, 2017 That's a little too early in the morning for me. I'll have to just check in the morning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lau Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 8am is perfect. I can actually get my sleep schedule back in order. You know what I'd love? An alliance between Archanea and Valentia. IS, do with it as you will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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