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Azura deconfirmed


The DanMan
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1 minute ago, Iridium said:

and yet they're still pushing all eight royals when literally only camilla even comes close so

I'd say they're only pushing the Nohr royals. Heroes has completely shafted the Hoshido ones. Also bullshit imo.

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 Well, this excludes all other Fates characters then. Not that they stood much of a chance anyways, but we can take this as confirmation that they are all out. Probably even for DLC.

Why make a game one of your focus games if you arent willing to go all in? Same thing with SD here.

Edited by Tolvir
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My only hope here is that this means they at least have a hard limit on how many characters from any specific game will be in Warriors.

If the roster truly is about 25-30 characters, then it means at least we probably won't see anymore Fates or Awakening characters. Which means the last handful of characters they have yet to reveal will probably be non-Awakening/Fates characters that ranked highly in CYL(As per IS' request).

As sad as it is to lose out on a spear dancer in an action game, this might mean good things(At least for people who don't want MORE Fates characters) in the long run.

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5 minutes ago, Slumber said:

My only hope here is that this means they at least have a hard limit on how many characters from any specific game will be in Warriors.

If the roster truly is about 25-30 characters, then it means at least we probably won't see anymore Fates or Awakening characters. Which means the last handful of characters they have yet to reveal will probably be non-Awakening/Fates characters that ranked highly in CYL(As per IS' request).

As sad as it is to lose out on a spear dancer in an action game, this might mean good things(At least for people who don't want MORE Fates characters) in the long run.

It's also kind of a slap in the face for weapon balance. There are not very many infantry lance users, and throwing in someone like Nephenee with no other Tellius character would be weird. Azura' exclusion pretty much puts all of the non armor infantry lancers out of the question until DLC. And even then.

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1 hour ago, Dengres said:

I feel like this was a lose lose situation for the devs anyway. Include her and people would be disappointed because even more Fates. Don't include her and people are disappointed because she held so much potential.

While this is entirely true, this is a situation that they created completely for themselves, and not one I (or anyone else) should feel obligated to feel sympathy for. They made a deliberate choice to focus on Fates, the game with the Royals. They made a deliberate choice to include every single other Royal, even the ones that were unpopular (Hinoka, Male Corrin pending implementation), could reasonably be excluded (Elise, Sakura), or could otherwise be removed for balance reasons (Leo, w.r.t. Hinoka.) They then made a deliberate choice to exclude her anyway in favor of characters from previous games, despite the fact that the end result of doing so appears to have been so meager that the only people satisfied with it are the people who would buy any game with Lyndis in it -- which has nothing to do with the original M.O. to begin with.

The circumstances behind Azura's exclusion were created based entirely upon a series of bad decisions that they themselves made, and the only people that can be held accountable are them and, to a far lesser extent, anyone responsible for the creation of the royals in the first place. Don't go trying to pin this on anyone else.

Edited by Iridium
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11 minutes ago, Tolvir said:

It's also kind of a slap in the face for weapon balance. There are not very many infantry lance users, and throwing in someone like Nephenee with no other Tellius character would be weird. Azura' exclusion pretty much puts all of the non armor infantry lancers out of the question until DLC. And even then.

That's at least reflective of how units are in the franchise. Until Ephraim, there wasn't a single non-Armor lance infantry unit. And Ephraim promotes to a mounted lance unit.

It's not until Nephenee that we get a totally lance-locked unarmored infantry unit. In all of Fire Emblem, there are 5 non-armored lance infantry units: Nephenee, Devdan/Danved, Aran, Azura and Oboro.

Edited by Slumber
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1 minute ago, Slumber said:

That's at least reflective of how units are in the franchise. Until Ephraim, there wasn't a single non-Armor lance infantry unit. And Ephraim promotes to a mounted lance unit.

It's not until Nephenee that we get a totally lance-locked unarmored infantry unit. In all of Fire Emblem, there are 5 non-armored lance infantry units: Nephenee, Devdan/Danved, Aran, Asura and Oboro.

Shiro?

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26 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

I feel like more people would've been happy to have her than not though.

I canceled my special edition pre order. I no longer care enough about the game to get it. I still have a regular copy on hold though. But I don't know if I'll even keep that.

Even your Freddy Bear and Ryoma aren't enough, huh? :P Good thing I like most of the cast.

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9 minutes ago, Iridium said:

While this is entirely true, this is a situation that they created completely for themselves, and not one I (or anyone else) should feel obligated to feel sympathy for. They made a deliberate choice to focus on Fates, the game with the Royals. They made a deliberate choice to include every single other Royal, even the ones that were unpopular (Hinoka, Male Corrin pending implementation), could reasonably be excluded (Elise, Sakura), or could otherwise be removed for balance reasons (Leo, w.r.t. Hinoka.) They then made a deliberate choice to exclude her anyway in favor of characters from previous games, despite the fact that the end result of doing so appears to have been so meager that the only people satisfied with it are the people who would buy any game with Lyndis in it -- which has nothing to do with the original M.O. to begin with.

The circumstances behind Azura's exclusion were created based entirely upon a series of bad decisions that they themselves made, and the only people that can be held accountable are them and, to a far lesser extent, anyone responsible for the creation of the royals in the first place. Don't go trying to pin this on anyone else.

I'm still not sure if it's IS or Koei Tecmo making these decisions.

Because if it's IS, then they also set themselves up for this bad PR situation a long time ago by giving us too many primarily Sword-wielding characters throughout the series and not enough regular Lance or Axe-wielding infantry.

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23 minutes ago, Slumber said:

That's at least reflective of how units are in the franchise. Until Ephraim, there wasn't a single non-Armor lance infantry unit. And Ephraim promotes to a mounted lance unit.

It's not until Nephenee that we get a totally lance-locked unarmored infantry unit. In all of Fire Emblem, there are 5 non-armored lance infantry units: Nephenee, Devdan/Danved, Aran, Azura and Oboro.

That is definitely true. Why lance infantry hasn't become a more regular thing I don't know. It was extremely common in medieval days due to its ability to stop charges and hold certain defensive points. But FE decided they are nothing but cannon fodder to mow down. IS ever heard of the Spartans? The Romans? They weren't exactly cannon fodder.

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13 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

One or two characters doesn't really justify spending $80.

I was going to preorder the SE, but once all this PR mess happened I decided I would just get the regular game with the coupon I will have at that time.  After no Minerva and now no Azura I am really not happy about the game like I was this summer.  I hope players in Japan leak the full roaster next week so that I know for sure who is in.

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28 minutes ago, Slumber said:

That's at least reflective of how units are in the franchise. Until Ephraim, there wasn't a single non-Armor lance infantry unit. And Ephraim promotes to a mounted lance unit.

It's not until Nephenee that we get a totally lance-locked unarmored infantry unit. In all of Fire Emblem, there are 5 non-armored lance infantry units: Nephenee, Devdan/Danved, Aran, Azura and Oboro.

 

17 minutes ago, Von Ithipathachai said:

Because if it's IS, then they also set themselves up for this bad PR situation a long time ago by giving us too many primarily Sword-wielding characters throughout the series and not enough regular Lance or Axe-wielding infantry.

The tragedy of FE's weapon favoritism and lack of more experimenting with classes more is affecting it in Heroes and Warriors alike. Infantry Lance is probably not going to exist in the base game of Warriors and it will be faced with a Sword glut. Heroes has to deal with the issue of their Dagger idea being half-baked and the fact we'll probably never have Bow Armors, Mage Armors, and that not all classes are equally popular, with axes generally getting the shaft.

 

Just how many unique movesets are there going to be in this game? With them not bothering with Azura despite her very unique potential, I'm afraid the number is going to be rather low. 

 

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4 minutes ago, Tolvir said:

That is definitely true. Why lance infantry hasn't become a more regular thing I don't know. It was extremely common in medieval days due to its ability to stop charges and hold certain defensive points. But FE decided they are nothing but cannon fodder to mow down. IS ever heard of the Spartans? The Romans? They weren't exactly cannon fodder.

@blah the Prussian might know this better than I do, but wasn't the spear usually the go-to weapon back in those days? Hell, wasn't that the case in Japan as well?

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I'm worried if Tharja will make in the game now, surely the only magic users in the game  won't be Robin, Elise, Leo, and Celica (in specials moves). She was 3rd in the CYL poll. Please make it in the game. Oh yeah, sorry Azura fans, maybe she could be DLC.

Edited by Jingle Jangle
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1 hour ago, Von Ithipathachai said:

I didn't think Azura was that popular (compared to Camilla, at least), but okay.

Still a shame that she got cut, though.  If anything, they should've cut Cordelia for being a clone and not being as relevant to her game as Caeda or Hinoka.

Technically Cordelia was revealed first and the other would be clones of her. And besides Cordelia being bae in my eyes, she's the only non-story character (by that I mean lord(s) or plot important members that show up often) and didn't some of us want non-lord units in the game?

Anyways utter bs that she didn't get in, balance and all, story relevance, yeah fates would have the largest cast (doesn't it already) but gee it's got like 60ish playable characters so 10 reps isn't too bad, given awakening has something in the 40ish and is getting 6 reps (also I'm not counting Corrin/Robin as alternate forms as characters). Of course shadow dragon is getting the shaft with having close to 60 characters yet 3 reps. So there better be hidden characters in the game and mostly shadow dragon based to balance it out. As roughly each game is getting nearly 1/6 of it's cast if we do the math (9/60ish with fates, 6/40ish with awakening) so that's the only way I can see shadow dragon getting more reps in.

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2 minutes ago, Thane said:

@blah the Prussian might know this better than I do, but wasn't the spear usually the go-to weapon back in those days? Hell, wasn't that the case in Japan as well?

Yeah. Especially in a setting like Fire Emblem, where a very few units are actually well trained knights, most units are randos picked up on the way. A fair chunk being normal villagers.

In the middle ages, axes and pikes(Improvised spears) were the go-to for poor villagers, due to their access. Pikes/spears especially due to their ease of use. Using an axe as a weapon properly is difficult and risky, but using a spear is relatively easy and safe. If Fire Emblem wanted to reflect reality(Which, in all honestly, has never been the case), axe and spear infantry would FAR outnumber sword infantry. Swords were way more expensive than axes and spears, and their uses are far more limited.

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You know what, I think Awakening has too many characters, they should've cut Robin.

Not just that, why does Smash 4 have ten Mario characters anyway? Sakurai should cut Luigi in the next game, nobody likes him.

7 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

The tragedy of FE's weapon favoritism and lack of more experimenting with classes more is affecting it in Heroes and Warriors alike.

Just how many unique movesets are there going to be in this game? With them not bothering with Azura despite her very unique potential, I'm afraid the number is going to be rather low. 

Did you ever hear the tragedy of FE's weapon favoritism? I thought not, it's not a story IS would tell you. It's an Advance Wars legend...

Right now there are 15 unique movesets. For comparison, Hyrule Warriors' base release had 20.

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5 minutes ago, Thane said:

@blah the Prussian might know this better than I do, but wasn't the spear usually the go-to weapon back in those days? Hell, wasn't that the case in Japan as well?

Lance is kind of a general term really. Spears, javelins, pike, Pilum, lot of variations in their designs for different use. It's like saying swords. Lot of different types in there, katana, longswords, gladius, kukri, falchion. 

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1 minute ago, Tolvir said:

Lance is kind of a general term really. Spears, javelins, pike, Pilum, lot of variations in their designs for different use. It's like saying swords. Lot of different types in there, katana, longswords, gladius, kukri, falchion. 

The main difference is that the use of spears and spear-like weapons is very easy to translate, almost completely regardless of what form it is. It's by and large point and thrust. Obviously there are polearms made for cutting, cleaving or even throwing, but those were far more obscure than the ones made for poking. If you knew how to pike hay, you could stab a man with a spear.

Compare a broadsword with a katana with a shortsword with a rapier with a claymore, and the case-by-case uses for swords is a lot more diverse. Some could cut and stab. Some could only cut. Some could only stab. Some had to be used with a bit more finesse. Some were so heavy that you just needed to get it above your head for it to be effective.

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39 minutes ago, Iridium said:

Male Corrin pending implementation

Male Corrin/Female Robin were confirmed alt costumes in the day 2 stream of TGS.

7 minutes ago, Thane said:

@blah the Prussian might know this better than I do, but wasn't the spear usually the go-to weapon back in those days? Hell, wasn't that the case in Japan as well?

Not him, but spears took far less time and resources to make; in Japan in particular, which isn't exactly ore rich, that meant a lot. Heck, Samurai were primarily spear users + archers, with katanas being more ceremonial and of limited use on the battlefield (due to how flimsy they were-- the stuff you see people make nowadays is pure steel, while Japan only really had impure iron).

 

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Just now, Slumber said:

Yeah. Especially in a setting like Fire Emblem, where a very few units are actually well trained knights, most units are randos picked up on the way. A fair chunk being normal villagers.

In the middle ages, axes and pikes(Improvised spears) were the go-to for poor villagers, due to their access. Pikes/spears especially due to their ease of use. Using an axe as a weapon properly is difficult and risky, but using a spear is relatively easy and safe. If Fire Emblem wanted to reflect reality(Which, in all honestly, has never been the case), axe and spear infantry would FAR outnumber sword infantry. Swords were way more expensive than axes and spears, and their uses are far more limited.

That might actually be it: Spears and pikes and the like were generally seen as the rank-and-file infantry weapon since it was easy to use and relatively safe. So soldiers, the general mook class in Fire Emblem, wield lance-type weapons because the common rank-and-file infantry is exactly the kind of mook you'd see appear in number to be easily overrun/slaughtered by your elite unique snowflakes.

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