Azura deconfirmed

[Slumber]

Just now, Folt said:

That might actually be it: Spears and pikes and the like were generally seen as the rank-and-file infantry weapon since it was easy to use and relatively safe. So soldiers, the general mook class in Fire Emblem, wield lance-type weapons because the common rank-and-file infantry is exactly the kind of mook you'd see appear in number to be easily overrun/slaughtered by your elite unique snowflakes.

This is true and very likely IS' reasoning for making spear-wielding soldiers the standard low-tier enemy for so many games.

But the problem is most of your army is composed of people even less experienced and skilled than those soldiers.

[Interdimensional Observer]

16 minutes ago, Thane said:

might know this better than I do, but wasn't the spear usually the go-to weapon back in those days? Hell, wasn't that the case in Japan as well?

I believe it was but I'm no expert, but to offer you some quick words. Once a Greco-Roman soldier lost/threw their spear or things got too close, then it was the sword they turned to. It helps that spears are much cheaper to make since you need far less metal. The spear even goes back to Paleolithic times, humans invented them long before the bow and arrow and certainly before the sword, which is a human v. human weapon through and through.

And as an aside, I heard the Japanese katana was originally invented for slashing on cavalry of all things. What does Hoshido conspicuously lack? Horses for some strange reason. I guess the katana just became that popular on foot that everyone forgot its origins.

 

9 minutes ago, Lightchao42 said:

Did you ever hear the tragedy of FE's weapon favoritism? I thought not, it's not a story IS would tell you. It's an Advance Wars legend...

Right now there are 15 unique movesets. For comparison, Hyrule Warriors' base release had 20.

What is this "Advance Wars" you speak of?

So not that bad actually, does that include Tiki? HW had its own issue of too many Linksets, but beyond that it was good.

Of course, our rage is more directed at the weapon type diversity of the movesets, the character selection, and the PR Tempest in a Teapot (are we sure KT didn't cause Tellius's Great Flood?).

 

1 minute ago, Slumber said:

This is true and very likely IS' reasoning for making spear-wielding soldiers the standard low-tier enemy for so many games.

You know what class they almost never use for low-tier baddies. Sword ones! Lances are for imperial mooks, axes are for barbarian mooks, but swords never get the god awful baddies treatment.

[Forpocalypse]

Sorry, but no, fuck this and whoever was responsible for this GARBAGE decision.

You include Hinoka, a character with dirt popularity who is also a semi-clone that brings nothing to the table...To balance out the fact that you included Camilla, a popular character who is also extremely unique? To be fair to the Hoshidans? No. Just put in Camilla and Takumi (who beat Leo in popularity in CYL). The older brothers both had to be in, of course, but I wish they didn't. They're BOTH less popular than the younger brothers too. Make them DLC. Azura is way more popular than Hinoka. Hinoka is irrelevant. She was included for no reason. Why am I harping on Hinoka? Because she's the least popular of all the Fates royals AND the most irrelevant to the story. Filth. I'm actually fuming over a video game roster and I gave this game the benefit of the doubt from Day 1. Include JUST Azura and Corrin (F) and you'd have a better roster! Azura is more popular, more relevant, has better moveset potential, and isn't a sword unit like your Walmart discount Alfonse and Sharena. SURE, I'm an Azura fangirl, but I don't think that I'm being unreasonable. If that text legitimately deconfirms Azura, oh man. I will still get this game the second it releases. But I won't be happy. When I heard that they were focusing on Fates, I was happy for one reason: I knew Azura would be in. 

I could go on about this trash. I don't want to sound like I'm straight out of GameFAQ's or anything, but they just deconfirmed my water goddess and I'm not having it. 

Fine, Koei. Add Ogma and Navarre too while you're at it, yeah? And why not Sword Gray, Saber, Sword Tobin, and Sword Kliff too? Make sure they're all Marth clones! Whoever chose to not include Azura is dead to me. Don't care. Not exaggerating. No wonder people threatened to quit over this trash roster! Putting Hinoka in over Azura must've had something to do with that. Screw Koei Tecmo. Add Azura as DLC immediately. 

Edited September 23, 2017 by Forpocalypse

[Etrurian emperor]

20 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

and that not all classes are equally popular, with axes generally getting the shaft.

I think this has to do with most axe users falling into character types that just aren't very popular in Japan. Most axe users that spring to mind are older and more bulky characters. That compares poorly to the prettyboys who tend to wield swords. Boyd, Nolan and Hector aside most don't seem very attractive either which loses them additional points. Because they are a more ''vulgar' type of weapon compared to swords this doesn't seem likely to change. 

Historically speaking there may also seem to be a general lack of effort when it comes to axe users. The only relevant axe users of Archenea is a lance user who got her weapon switched, genealogy seemed to have only Lex and the Dozel brothers and Gaiden didn't have them at all. Binding blade also didn't really have an axe user that would ever have the potential to be a fan favorite. 

Hector might have been the first time axe users have been given some respect by giving an axe to an undeniably prominent character. 

Edited September 23, 2017 by Etrurian emperor

[Lau]

People are cancelling pre-orders now? Good for you.

This honestly sounds like an early decision, and if it was, they could have changed their minds. I wouldn't get too worked up about this until we know the full roster.

I will piss myself if she actually is in the game, though.

[Thane]

5 minutes ago, The DanMan said:

Not him, but spears took far less time and resources to make; in Japan in particular, which isn't exactly ore rich, that meant a lot. Heck, Samurai were primarily spear users + archers, with katanas being more ceremonial and of limited use on the battlefield (due to how flimsy they were-- the stuff you see people make nowadays is pure steel, while Japan only really had impure iron).

Yeah that's basically what I've heard. Of course, perhaps the status of the sword is the very reason as to why it's featured so heavily in geek culture.

It's too bad we don't have many infantry lance-wielders we can expect in this game though. Shit, I just guaranteed we'll get Donnel, didn't I?

Quote

I believe it was but I'm no expert, but to offer you some quick words. Once a Greco-Roman soldier lost/threw their spear or things got too close, then it was the sword they turned to. It helps that spears are much cheaper to make since you need far less metal. 

Reminds me of the Seven Samurai and how they armed the peasants with bamboo spears.

[The DanMan]

1 minute ago, Lau said:

People are cancelling pre-orders now? Good for you.

This honestly sounds like an early decision, and if it was, they could have changed their minds. I wouldn't get too worked up about this until we know the full roster.

I will piss myself if she actually is in the game, though.

This was from an interview in yesterday's Nintendo Dream magazine.
Not exactly any chance for a reversal.

[Lau]

2 minutes ago, The DanMan said:

This was from an interview in yesterday's Nintendo Dream magazine.
Not exactly any chance for a reversal.

From yesterday? I didn't know that. Well then...

DLC it is then.

[Slumber]

1 minute ago, Etrurian emperor said:

I think this has to do with most axe users falling into character types that just aren't very popular in Japan. Most axe users that spring to mind are older and more bulky characters. Boyd, Nolan and Hector aside most don't seem very attractive either which loses them additional points. Because they are a more ''vulgar' type of weapon compared to swords this doesn't seem likely to change. 

Historically speaking there may also seem to be a general lack of effort when it comes to axe users. The only relevant axe users of Archenea is a lance user who got her weapon switched, genealogy seemed to have only Lex and the Dozel brothers and Gaiden didn't have them at all. Binding blade also didn't really have an axe user that would ever have the potential to be a fan favorite. 

Hector might have been the first time axe users have been given some respect by giving an axe to an undeniably prominent character. 

Thracia put decent emphasis on axe users.

The Jeigan of that game is a Warrior, and his right-hand is a Barbarian. Arguably the most powerful physical unit in the game is a Fighter who gets a busted prf weapon in the first chapter of the game, and he has a counterpart who gets a Hero Axe in the first chapter. You get frontloaded with absolutely ridiculous axe units who can and likely will carry you through a lot of the game.

The leader of the group who comes in to save Leif from imprisonment and execution early in the game is an Axe Cavalry(Although he's sword-locked until you get to outdoor maps).

After that they kind of taper off and it becomes sword/magic central. They get a much better treatment than lance users in that game, though. Not a single infantry unit in the whole game that uses lances specifically(Knights are axe units in the game, and don't gain lances until promotion, and any lance using cavalier that isn't Finn is borderline not worth using due to the nerf they get with dismounts). The only lance units that get any sort of respect are fliers, who can save you a lot of trouble, but are generally too risky to rely on consistently.

[Pizzaface]

3 minutes ago, Forpocalypse said:

Sorry, but no, fuck this and whoever was responsible for this GARBAGE decision.

You include Hinoka, a character with dirt popularity who is also a semi-clone that brings nothing to the table...To balance out the fact that you included Camilla, a popular character who is also extremely unique? To be fair to the Hoshidans? No. Just put in Camilla and Takumi (who beat Leo in popularity in CYL). The older brothers both had to be in, of course, but I wish they didn't. They're BOTH less popular than the younger brothers too. Make them DLC. Azura is way more popular than Hinoka. Hinoka is irrelevant. She was included for no reason. Why am I harping on Hinoka? Because she's the least popular of all the Fates royals AND the most irrelevant to the story. Filth. I'm actually fuming over a video game roster and I gave this game the benefit of the doubt from Day 1. Include JUST Azura and Corrin (F) and you'd have a better roster! Azura is more popular, more relevant, has better moveset potential, and isn't a sword unit like your Walmart discount Alfonse and Sharena. SURE, I'm an Azura fangirl, but I don't think that I'm being unreasonable. If that text legitimately deconfirms Azura, oh man. I will still get this game the second it releases. But I won't be happy. When I heard that they were focusing on Fates, I was happy for one reason: I knew Azura would be in. 

I could go on about this trash. I don't want to sound like I'm straight out of GameFAQ's or anything, but they just deconfirmed my water goddess and I'm not having it. 

Fine, Koei. Add Ogma and Navarre too while you're at it, yeah? And what not Sword Gray, Saber, Sword Tobin, and Sword Kliff too? Whoever chose to not include Azura is dead to me. Don't care. Not exaggerating. No wonder people threatened to quit over this trash roster! Putting Hinoka in over Azura must've had something to do with that. Screw Koei Tecmo. Add Azura as DLC immediately. 

Spoiler

 

[Florete]

In a way I'm not even surprised. There's been so much craziness in their decisions and their explanations for them.

 

2 hours ago, LoboKD001 said:

where is that text from may i ask?

I'd like to know this, too. Can anyone answer?

[Folt]

Just now, Slumber said:

This is true and very likely IS' reasoning for making spear-wielding soldiers the standard low-tier enemy for so many games.

But the problem is most of your army is composed of people even less experienced and skilled than those soldiers.

And your characters are never the typical rank-and-file soldier: They have characterization that goes beyond that, helped by the games never giving you control of an actual rank-and-file army, instead having it be composed of characters who learn and grow different from each other even if they ostensibly have the same class. The typical rank-and-file soldier never improves beyond that.

[Anacybele]

30 minutes ago, EricaofRenais said:

I was going to preorder the SE, but once all this PR mess happened I decided I would just get the regular game with the coupon I will have at that time.  After no Minerva and now no Azura I am really not happy about the game like I was this summer.  I hope players in Japan leak the full roaster next week so that I know for sure who is in.

Yeah, same here. No Minerva, no Azura, possibly no Ike either even though fucking Lyn is there. I can only hope the last day of TGS and then a datamine of the game at release can salvage things. But I'm not holding my breath.

24 minutes ago, Lightchao42 said:

You know what, I think Awakening has too many characters, they should've cut Robin.

Not just that, why does Smash 4 have ten Mario characters anyway? Sakurai should cut Luigi in the next game, nobody likes him.

...Dude, I seriously hope you're joking here.

[Slumber]

Just now, Folt said:

And your characters are never the typical rank-and-file soldier: They have characterization that goes beyond that, helped by the games never giving you control of an actual rank-and-file army, instead having it be composed of characters who learn and grow different from each other even if they ostensibly have the same class. The typical rank-and-file soldier never improves beyond that.

Right, but at that point, the idea behind having mooks use spears has no meaning. It's meant to show a lack of skill and rank, not a lack of character or depth.

[Nanima]

I am actually sad Azura gor scrapped. Her story role and character execution therein were complete crap, but there was still enough compelling about her for me (plus I like her design). Not to mention, her gameplay would have probably been pretty fun too. Someone I'd actually use, unlike Corn and all of Nohr.

Let's hope she is dlc. She is popular enough to warrant it. I am not changing anything about my plans to buy the game, but I can understand people who do (would have done the same without Takumi).

[Etrurian emperor]

2 minutes ago, Pizzaface said:

You include Hinoka, a character with dirt popularity who is also a semi-clone that brings nothing to the table...

I don't think Hinoka was a particularly good add for this game either but I don't think she's actively unpopular. She's not very relevant and most people notice she was a very late addition but I don't think people outright don't like her. Saying she's the least popular royal doesn't mean much considering they are all in the upper tier of the popularity poll.

Hinoka has her flaws and detractors but her popularity is hardly dirt. 

[W.F.Jiel]

Im very sad about it cause Azura have such a huge potential as a playable character

let's hope that they will add her as a DLC 

[omegaxis1]

Oh what the hell man! No Azura? Seriously, this is utter bullshit. Wow, I'm really peeved. Sigh... well, though I am upset about this, I'll work through this. Positive.

[maybe]

probably wouldn't have played as azura, so i'm not really disappointed, but I do think she would've been a really cool addition

the only character who's been shown so far who I think could've been more interesting to play as is celica and she's....

yeah this is a pretty lame decision even as someone who doesn't care about the character and has barely played the game she's from

she and ike will definitely be dlc at some point (probably roy too), but it's so weird that she's not in the base game, even if they did have to have literally every fates royal

Edited September 23, 2017 by unique

[Tolvir]

No one has said yet about where it's from. Someone posted it on discord.

mayve she stands a chance as DLC. Rena Strober recorded lines as Azura for something, and it wasn't Heroes, and probably not a Fates 2. 

Edited September 23, 2017 by Tolvir

[Armagon]

4 minutes ago, Tolvir said:

No one has said yet about where it's from. Someone posted it on discord.

About that

19 minutes ago, The DanMan said:

This was from an interview in yesterday's Nintendo Dream magazine.

 

[Interdimensional Observer]

4 minutes ago, Thane said:

Yeah that's basically what I've heard. Of course, perhaps the status of the sword is the very reason as to why it's featured so heavily in geek culture.

It's always been a popular weapon type through history. How many legendary spears can you name? How many axes? Bows? The Sword being such an artisanal and expensive craft has lent it the majesty it possesses to this day.

But I want more incredible lance users in media! I get why an axe isn't glorious, but a spear can be plenty awesome. And a bow can suit someone who doesn't quite live by society's standards. I might not like Zhao Yun or Yukimura that much, but at least they bring the spear to coolness.

6 minutes ago, Slumber said:

and any lance using cavalier that isn't Finn is borderline not worth using due to the nerf they get with dismounts)

Dismounting losses don't look that bad outside of Dragon Knights. Though you're right for the most part on weapon ranks, which I hear are really sluggish to develop.

 

9 minutes ago, Folt said:

And your characters are never the typical rank-and-file soldier: They have characterization that goes beyond that, helped by the games never giving you control of an actual rank-and-file army, instead having it be composed of characters who learn and grow different from each other even if they ostensibly have the same class. The typical rank-and-file soldier never improves beyond that.

What makes Aran any different from the enemies he's recruited from? They're all humans being who would likely grow in the same situations. It isn't like you have an army of 108 Stars of Destiny.

[Etrurian emperor]

If they worried about to many Fates characters then they should just have cut Elise and add Azura in her place. Azura has her own things to add bring to the table while Elise is redundant considering she shares Leo's moves and the cute little sister persona already done by Lissa. 

I don't really think the siblings should have parity with each other either. The brothers have a clear rivalry but I don't think any of the sisters are in any way defined by the rivalries they have with their counterparts. Even if Sakura would lose out by Elise not being there then that could be fixed by just having her interact with Lissa. 

Edited September 23, 2017 by Etrurian emperor

[The DanMan]

@Tolvir @Florete @LoboKD001 The person who posted it in the Discord followed up and said that it was from the most recent issue of Nintendo Dream. Normally it takes some time for the interviews to get translated, but it seems a juicy tidbit like that started making the rounds almost immediately. 

[Slumber]

1 minute ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Dismounting losses don't look that bad outside of Dragon Knights. Though you're right for the most part on weapon ranks, which I hear are really sluggish to develop.

There's a slight nerf to your max stats(A point or two from strength and speed) while dismounting, but it's still noticeable in a game where everything caps at 20, and the blow to weapon ranks is what makes mounted units who aren't Felgus or Diarmuid so hellish to use. You always have to keep weak, low-level swords on hand, even in late game, just so your non-sword mounted units have something to even use. It's always a significant downgrade, and the endgame is a lot of indoor maps. Their extra movement on outdoor maps rarely comes in handy enough to really try using any mounted units who aren't Finn, who can't fly, or don't inherently use swords.