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I finished the game and my heart got hit with the feels train at 9000000 mph.

My thoughts, taken from the Xenoblade subreddit (i'm just linking to it there since it contains spoilers, which i have marked)

(It's just easier for me to do this as that way i don't have to seperate the spoilers from the not spoilers here).

 

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I'm not even done with the game yet and I'm already depressed by the idea of it ending soon, especially since this is likely the last XC2 content we'll get. That aside its time for more impressions before I get Community to level 4 (which I still don't mind).

Spoiler
  • Immediately Auresco is under attack by the evil forces of Malos! The Gargoyles here are understandably stronger than the one fought by Jin and Lora at the beginning. Maybe that one was already weakened by Addam and Mythra?
  • Finally our heroes confront Malos himself. His boss fight is essentially the same as when he was fought in Chapter 7 of the main game. Did you know that the eShop description says that his weapon is the Monado? It was obvious before but it wasn't explicably called that until now.
  • Malos deducts that Addam is illegitimate based on his golden eyes, as most Tornans have blue eyes. Presumably this is where Malos's "Ah, but those eyes..." comment about Rex comes from. Later scenes confirm that the King had an affair with a farmer while out on a military campaign (the King was like Addam in terms of going about to help the people, which is why Addam is so popular). For some reason I have a feeling his mother is from Leftheria...
  • Malos thinks that humans are naturally suicidal idiots and he's doing humanity a favor by destroying them. I'm getting Persona 3 vibes from him now.
  • Azurda makes a surprise appearance to save our heroes (of course I was expecting him to appear eventually, just not so soon). We learn that he was born from the Tornan Titan and that he already knows Jin (though Jin of course doesn't remember him). Addam calls him "nuncle", and since Azurda is Rex's Gramps does this mean that Addam is also Rex's uncle?
  • As all villains must advance their plot to the final stage for dramatic tension, Malos gets away with Torna's seal. Fortunately for our heroes (and me), he's delaying the end of the world because he doesn't want the game to end just yet (neither do I).
  • Lora gets knighted as thanks for helping against Malos and its time for another scene from the base game, making memories that surely won't end well. We learn that Lora made Jin's mask as a way to hide his identity since he's technically stolen property, but as Lora is a knight he doesn't need to wear it anymore. It's also neat how Jin's cooking icon and the save icon change depending on if Jin is wearing his mask at the time.
  • Zettar tried to resonate with Mythra's Core Crystal but failed, so Addam got her instead (after going all the way to Uraya apparently). He'll probably end up betraying the heroes at some point, but when?
  • Everyone talks about how Malos is the incarnation of the Architect's will as an explanation for his destructive nature (though players of the base game will know the real reason), though nobody says the same about Mythra. Maybe Malos's Driver being Indoline has something to do with it.
  • Speaking of Indol, Rhadallis will have to die at some point so Amalthus can become Praetor. Gort is also unaccounted for, so will we fight him as a Blade Eater abomination before fighting Malos?
  • Oh yeah, and we still haven't seen or heard of Ophion yet.

I'm actually almost done getting Community to level 4, and the lead up to the endgame is looking very interesting. I heard there's a New Game Plus and I still haven't finished everything in the main game, so I at least have those to look forward to once I'm done.

Edited by Lightchao42
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I decided to take a quick break from Torna to play a bit of the main game and claim the free items.

Using about 20 Legendary Core Crystals, I got myself a KosMos! I managed to get Perdido, Obrona, and Azami as well. Now all I am missing are 4 blades (aside from one DLC blade and Elma).

Speaking of Elma, her fight is rough! I thought I could get away with using the classic crit-heal setup with a focus on driver combos (Rex, Tora, Zeke). However, Elma likes to evade a lot and is rather resistant to Break (even though I have two Beta Scopes equipped). I think I'll need to rethink my strategy and get some more Dark Blades so I can seal the reinforcements...

I also found a crash. If trying to send out QTπ on a merc mission and she is the main Blade on Tora, the game closes itself due to an error. Luckily I wasn't set too far back, but it did worry me when it did.

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I beat the Torna DLC last night so I guess I'll give my impressions

The Good

Spoiler

The plot is overall excellent in terms of emotional storytelling.  There's a good reason why so many people say that the ending destroyed them emotionally.  And man, that ending.  Oof.  That was a heavy hitter.  Mythra's scream when she comes to and realizes that she's destroyed everything is absolutely heart-wrenching.  Skye Bennett nearly puts Adam Howden (Shulk) to shame at that moment. 

The gameplay is great too.  They took the already excellent battle engine from the base game and added so much to it.  Talent Arts returning from Xenoblade 1, the streamlining of Blade Combos, and the ability to actively command your computer party members.  Also, the fact that you switch between controlling Drivers and Blades giving an actual workaround for Blade/Driver Bind is really nice.  That final battle too with the Siren command also excellent.

The Bad

Spoiler

I, personally, am not a fan of the game locking story progression behind completing sidequests.  While I definitely planned on doing all the sidequests on my own time, I just don't really like the idea of it, especially because the game doesn't really give a good story explanation of why you have to.

Also, while the story is mostly excellent, I feel like there is still a lot that is left unexplained.  Mostly in regards to Amalthus and Malos' motivations.  I got the general idea that Amalthus believes humans are evil and beyond redemption because of his mother getting killed (pretty unclear) and that Malos is influenced by Amalthus' mind (seemingly to a much larger degree than most Blades are affected by their Drivers) but I feel like there should be more explanation than this.  I at least wanted more scenes with them.

And one last minor thing that'll probably be fixed soon.  During the aforementioned Siren fight (Phase 2 of the final fight against Malos) I experienced a glitch on my first attempt where the Siren cutscene moved incredibly slowly, seemingly unending.  It was quickly fixed when I reset my system, but it's still a major issue.  And from what I've heard, other people have experienced this same glitch

Overall, I really liked Torna, and I think it's well worth the price, especially since you also get all the other DLC for the main game alongside it if you buy the Season Pass.

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On 10.9.2018 at 4:26 PM, Lightchao42 said:

To celebrate Torna's launch, Monolith Soft is giving out free items to all players, even those who don't have the Expansion Pass. The items are 15 Legendary Core Crystals and some pouch items. To redeem the items, you need to register XC2 on My Nintendo before September 30, and afterwards you'll receive an email with a code to redeem on the eShop starting from September 14 (the same day that 2.0.0 releases).

To come back to this; did anyone else not get a E-Mail with the code? I registered XC2 quite a while ago but I have yet to receive any kind of code for this.
It seems like this issue comes up quite a bit, several others have yet to receive it.

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So the "intended" order to play Torna is between Chapters 7 and 8? Maybe I'll try that the next time I do a playthrough.

And it's confirmed that Torna is the last content we're getting, which I expected. It's sad that it won't be updated anymore, but at least Xenoblade 2 had a great DLC run! Now let's get some more Xenoblade content in Smash Ultimate.

Quote

Does anything carry over from Torna to Xenoblade Chronicles 2, or vice-versa?

Takahashi: While we don’t have any save data or gameplay that carries over directly from the main game into Torna, we do have some visual surprises cued up for those that clear both games.

This is something I'm curious about. I'm right before the final boss of the base game in New Game Plus (since I was waiting to finish Torna first so the games end on a happy note), so should I finish XC2 or Torna first, or does it not matter? Or will I get the bonus already because I cleared the main game once?

Edited by Lightchao42
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9 minutes ago, Lightchao42 said:

This is something I'm curious about. I'm right before the final boss of the base game in New Game Plus (since I was waiting to finish Torna first so the games end on a happy note), so should I finish XC2 or Torna first, or does it not matter? Or will I get the bonus already because I cleared the main game once?

So long as you have beaten each game once, you get the bonus.

Said bonuses are viewed from the main game's cutscene viewer.

Edited by Armagon
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10 minutes ago, Armagon said:

So long as you have beaten each game once, you get the bonus.

Said bonuses are viewed from the main game's cutscene viewer.

Thanks, I'll keep that in mind. Speaking of cutscenes, Torna's tendency to clump plot important scenes together makes me wish that the cutscene viewer had a fast forward option...

Back to the article, I'll say that I prefer the ending we got to any of the alternatives.

Spoiler

Though it's a shame that Coffee with Milk can never show up again, unless Pyra and Mythra can somehow fuse back together temporarily. And when are they going to make "Pneuma" her official name already?

 

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1 hour ago, Armagon said:

So Torna was meant to be in the game? That explains how it was released so fast. As I said before, I wish they held it back it’s release at peast a year more, for Torna to have more content.

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Finished Torna a few days ago. Felt great jumping back into Alrest after so many months of being away from it.

I don't feel like saying too much, but there's two things I want to say: Lora is one of the best female leads from Nintendo, and the OST for Torna is fucking out of this world.

Lora > Rex > Shulk.

Edited by DodgeDusk
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I took some detours and did some extra stuff to end up with around 18/19 hour of total playtime. This easily ranks amongst one of the best dlc's put out and I believe the dlc did a lot of things better then the main game. Its status as expansion does give the game some flaws of its own though. Its understandable since its not a full game. Still like some others said I would't have minded if they gave the dlc a bit more time to make it bigger.

The good

Spoiler

First of all the removal of the Gacha system works wonders for both battle and exploration. Making both driver and blades playable gives a much more satisfying feel then the blades just standing around until its time for a special. But the biggest pro is that field skills are not a gigantic pain anymore. With fewer blades they are things to work towards, instead of feeling random. It also helps you don't have to waste so much time getting all those random blades in and out of your party to pass the field checks.

The story and characters are both very good. Mythra especially turned out to be much better then in the main game. Her role in the ending was amazing, but I also felt her getting no respect from a lot of people made her a much more fun character. Lora/Adam/Hugo worked great too and it was nice to see Aegeon join the main cast. Even the kid characters where pretty good.

I also liked how the cast had unique dialogue in a lot of sidequest. It made doing them a lot more rewarding since you could always hear the characters chime in on a thing or two. The midpoint would be a lot weaker if all sidequests just had generic lines or if only the npc's talked in them.

The not so good

Spoiler

The forced sidequests are a much heard complaint and I agree to some extend. The sidequests themselves are actually pretty well done. A lot of them give the main cast something to work with and you don't need to grind affinity/pass absurd field skill checks anymore. My main problem is that the game doesn't really give you much of a break between sidequest roadblock one and sidequest roadblock two. Its sidequests, followed by one fight with Malos and then sidequests again. The lack of heart to hearts and Camp convo's not updating did't help either. It just feels like the entire midgame consists of nothing happening.

On the whole I really liked the story and characters, but I felt some area's fared a bit worse then others. Not Metal Face in particular was placed a bit oddly in the story. I know its a way to wrap up Lora's story, but I don't think placing him after such a great climax was a good move. 

There is also Minoth and I like him, but he feels a bit of an afterthought. He joins right when the sidequests start and he has no role in any of the important scenes. I could be remembering wrong, but I don't believe he even says anything in the ending.

 

 

Edited by Sasori
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Finally managed to beat Torna. Final time was 18 hours and 30 minutes.

Long story short, I loved every minute of it. My main criticism is the sidequest requirements for the main story to progress. That aside, my main wish is that Torna was longer and we could explore more with these characters. At the very least, having some voiced Heart to Hearts and/or having them playable in the original game would have been cool...

As for my impressions...

Spoiler

 

1. I absolutely loved the combat. I found the combat in Torna to be more refined than in the base title. Tossing Orbs on enemies and performing Chain Attacks are much easier and intuitive, with the "elemental combos" being more of a bonus. I also enjoyed the fact the "support" actually did something instead of just stand there and channel energy. Talent Arts are also a welcome addition, even though I think I only use Lora's and Minoth's regularly. I believe I also finally picked up on "auto-attack" canceling, where I simply move a little to constantly spam the first auto attack.

2. Blades in Torna are just so much better. I believe the "quality vs quantity" argument can easily be made here. Field Skills are less of a pain and each Blade has a defined role. In the base title, there are plenty of Blades to choose from, but they overlapped and some were just better than others. Raising all of the Blades to experience their storylines is also a pain.

3. I loved all the small details, such as what the party says when taking on a quest or saying when a pouch time has expired (or refilling one). The references Torna has to the main game are also pretty cool.

4. Sidequests are definitely an improvement to XC2's as they remind me a bit of the better sidequests in the original Xenoblade Chronicles. I loved the sidequest chains and the mini-stories they had with the NPCs. Blade Quests were cool in XC2, and while they are generally better sidequests, what sets them apart is the voiceover work. However, the fact that Sidequests were a requirement to progress does take away some of the enjoyment. I liked the Community System as it reminded me of XC1's affinity chart, but just bring back the original affinity chart.

 

For some spoiler talk...

Spoiler

1. I think that Gort is a bit meh. I understand why he is there as he is deeply connected to Lora storywise, but showing up as a midboss and an "epilogue boss" sorta takes away the moment. Gort would probably have made a great "Metal Face" character who constantly terrorizes Lora's party before he is finally defeated if the DLC was longer, but as it is Gort is just there. My main complaint is his appearance as the epilogue boss. I know the story is always about Lora and not Adam, but the Malos fight should have been the end. Gort showing up afterwards disrupts the pacing in my opinion.

2. As for the ending, while I was hit with some feels, it didn't not impact me as much as I thought it would. Then again, I did know what was coming and had expectations with the Malos fight (I thought we would have some Skell combat from X when Siren went up against Malos' Artifice, but all it was used for was a replacement for Chain Attacks). I didn't get much hyped during the fight as I was more focused on trying to stay alive and beat up Malos instead of experiencing the awesomeness.

While we know what happens after the events of Torna to the characters, I wish we saw a bit more of an epilogue. Currently things are a bit vague and I guess that is intentional to lead players to play the base game, but I would have liked more closure. I wanted to see more of Adam sealing Pyra away and Adam returning to his family. I wanted to see an imperial funeral scene of Hugo in Mor Ardain. I wanted to see what actually happened to Lora and company. How did Haze and Mik get captured? Can we get an extended scene of Lora's demise and her final thoughts? While we already know the answers, some more elaboration would have been nice.

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I'm now on Malos's doorstep (I think) but I'm waiting until tomorrow to progress, so let's get some last thoughts before I fight him.

Spoiler
  • Before we can have a climatic battle we need to leave the the kids in Torna's capital, but Milton isn't having any of it. While Addam and Jin fail to convince him, Mythra is the one who explains that they need to stay safe so everyone can fight their hardest. Who knew that she would be the one to talk sense into him? Jin promises to kill Malos and bring Addam back.
  • Mythra makes an observation on the latest journal writing tread, as even Poppi will get in on it 500 years later. Jin explains that its better to write a journal in the hopes of eventually finding it later than to do nothing, in order to maintain his memories of his Driver. Mythra doesn't get it, and Jin speculates that she hasn't found her true affinity yet, but she will in the future. Hmm... I like this scene because it develops Jin and Mythra's friendship, which makes the main game all the more tragic.
  • Mythra is the one to see the boys off when the party leaves, just to show how far our girl has come. Of course, her mental state will probably come tumbling down shortly. Malos finally moves on with his plot and awakens the Tornan Titan's true form.
  • Once the party reaches the entrance to the Titan's Core (which I had accidentally stumbled across beforehand), Hugo takes the time to speculate on Malos's motives. Addam asks Mythra's opinion, but she doesn't know because she and Malos have nothing in common beyond being Aegises. Personally I think Malos and Mythra do have a good idea of the other's thought process, but maybe not in this respect. Addam theorizes that Malos could be a reflection of Amalthus's mind. Hmm... Addam, accurately, has a bad feeling about what's coming next.
  • What RPG would this be without a final dungeon? It comes with three stages and many bugs (insects, not programming errors) There are many enemies and the queens are particularly bothersome to defeat. I also stumbled across a secret area which had some useful treasure.
  • When I said I was on Malos's doorstep, I meant that I'm on the landmark right in front of the quest marker, though I might check out the last camp conversation before I progress.

Based on what I've heard about the ending, I should probably find myself some tissues...

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I didn't expect to have positively changed my mind on the community system. Making it forced is still very silly but after the sidequests stopped being awful MMO lithe quests I started liking it a lot more. Its got a lot of charm to walk through the Tornan capital and see Lora's fanbase grow bigger and bigger. When walking through town you see townspeople gushing to each other about Lora and Adam, family members of quest givers can tell the party how happy they are that you helped their loved ones and some NPC's even get quite personal like the ones attending Lora's knighting ceremony.

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I finished Torna earlier today and as expected it ends badly for everyone. How badly? Let's review...

Spoiler
  • Seriously, the only named character whose life doesn't get worse as a result of this game is Amalthus, and maybe Zettar if you think he founded Tantal. Maybe some NPCs escaped to Leftheria, Indol, or Genbu, but most of them were probably killed by Malos, Mythra, or Amalthus at some point.
  • Haze feels sorry that Minoth's Driver is Amalthus and can't imagine serving someone as terrible as him. Hmm...
  • I'm surprisingly glad the writers didn't forget about Ophion. Malos subdues it quickly, but its the effort that counts.
  • Malos attacks Auresco to provoke Mythra, but he should've known that goading the hero into unleashing their true power by attacking their loved ones never goes well.
  • Mythra goes berserk and calls upon Aion's power to summon the third sword, which Addam is helpless to do anything about. There's an amazing Siren vs. Siren battle, and even Drifting Soul comes back to show that the cutscene means business. I was hoping Drifting Soul would play at some point but I didn't think it would.
  • Mythra loses control of her power in her grief and rage and ends up destroying the Torna, as well as almost killing Malos. She borrows her brother Ontos's power and has a premonition of our old friend Rex.
  • I said before that Hugo would probably survive the game and return to Mor Ardain after defeating Malos, but while playing I remembered a scene where Brighid says her journal didn't have any information on the period after the Aegis War, so she speculates that she returned to her core by that time. I still didn't think he would actually die.
  • I expected Milton to be caught up in Amalthus's Blade Eater experimentation like Mikhail, so him actually being killed by Malos was surprising.
  • Anyone who doesn't want to give Mythra a hug is heartless. She rivals Melia in the amount of trauma she goes through.
  • We see that Milton's death (or more specifically, how Mikhail blames Mythra for it) was the final straw that led to Mythra creating Pyra. Pyra seems to represent everything people wanted Mythra to be, though her creation doesn't seem like something Mythra did consciously. She doesn't have any dialogue though, and soon she goes off with Addam to seal away the third sword. Overall Torna did a great job at elaborating on both Pyra and Mythra's characters.
  • Gort comes back as a Blade Eater abomination straight out of Resident Evil as the "real" final boss. It's impossible to lose though, so its more akin to tying up loose ends (and reminding the player that Lora is the real main character).
  • The final scenes play during the credits, which I didn't expect. Amalthus poisons Rhadallis to death and eliminates his rivals to become Praetor before immediately ordering an attack on the remaining Tornans on Spessia (wait, they have more of those Blade Eater abominations?). Lora, Jin, Haze, and Mikhail are all unaware of their impending fate...
  • I find it interesting that they don't show Lora's final fate, just the approaching Indoline forces. It gives players an incentive to play the main game if they haven't already, and avoids redundancy if they did. It doesn't explain how Amalthus ended up resonating with Haze in particular, but maybe he heard about her special power somehow and wanted it for himself? It's possible she was captured alongside Mikhail before she returned to her Core Crystal.
  • We see the Ancient Ship containing Pyra sink beneath the Cloud Sea, while Addam goes off to parts unknown. I liked the ending but I also would have liked to see more of how Pyra views her situation.
  • Jin, now a Flesh Eater, burns his journal and the photo the team took earlier to bury the past. He has one last conversation with Azurda before departing. We don't know when he eventually joins forces with Malos.
  • Our last shot of the game is Pyra sealed within the Ancient Ship with a certain salvager entering the room, properly leading into the main game. The room where Pyra is sealed is also the title screen upon completing the game.
  • If I'm counting correctly, between beating Malos and the final scene, the ending is about 30 minutes long.

The story covered just about everything I wanted it to (except maybe learning more about Judicium), and overall I am very happy with the experience and the DLC as a whole. The book on Xenoblade Chronicles 2 has closed, so I'm looking forward to seeing what Monolith Soft has in store next. And Sakurai please add Rex and Pyra to Smash Ultimate.

Spoiler

I would have liked Malos and permanent Pneuma as usable Blades though...

 

Edited by Lightchao42
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7 hours ago, Lightchao42 said:

And Sakurai please add Rex and Pyra to Smash Ultimate.

I think Rex and Pyra would be a more well rounded choice than Elma because Xenoblade 2 seems a bigger phenomenon than X was and Rex + Pyra could be more interesting mechanically. If they got in then Malos could be a fairly easy Echo character of Shulk. But there is also a lot of talk that Xenoblade 2 started development far too late into the planning phase of Smash Ultimate to make it into the base game. 

Interestingly Morag's VA let it slip that we can all expect to see more of Morag but the lead dev of Xenoblade also says that Torna was the last update to Xenoblade 2. Morgag for Smash!....or probably just an assist trophy. 

Edited by Etrurian emperor
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Just finished Torna.

Spoiler

The story was extremely fast-paced. I was expecting a longer story, to be honest, since this was being made as a standalone game after all, but nope. Guess this is what one should expect from what can basically be considered Xenoblade 2.5. 

But my god, that ending. Makes all the hinting they did in Xenoblade 2 make sense as to why that battle was so horrific. The way that Mythra tried to reach out to Milton's dead body before Mikail pulled him away from her reach. 

And this pretty much confirms that Jin actually wouldn't be able to match Malos at full power, since Pneuma's power allows Rex to overpower Jin, and Mythra using her full power allowed her to go toe to toe with Malos. 

 

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So I've been playing Torna and I've been enjoying it a lot. Maybe even more than the main game, I'll give my thoughts about it when I'll finish it.

Got a little question here about the side quests though

Spoiler

When the game forced me to do some side quests in Torna till I got a higher community level I completed a few of them but left some undone. Then Malos attacked and know I can't do them anymore. Will I be able to continue them at some point or did I screw myself?

 

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1 hour ago, Hekselka said:

So I've been playing Torna and I've been enjoying it a lot. Maybe even more than the main game, I'll give my thoughts about it when I'll finish it.

Got a little question here about the side quests though

  Hide contents

When the game forced me to do some side quests in Torna till I got a higher community level I completed a few of them but left some undone. Then Malos attacked and know I can't do them anymore. Will I be able to continue them at some point or did I screw myself?

 

You can still finish them, especially since some Affinity Chart nodes require all sidequests to be done.

This is the first Xenoblade game where you can't permanently lock yourself out of sidequests.

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On 9/19/2018 at 12:26 AM, Armagon said:

I finished the game and my heart got hit with the feels train at 9000000 mph.

My thoughts, taken from the Xenoblade subreddit (i'm just linking to it there since it contains spoilers, which i have marked)

(It's just easier for me to do this as that way i don't have to seperate the spoilers from the not spoilers here).

4

So I read it and wrote my thoughts on it:

Spoiler

I have just completed Torna just now, and man, that ending where she seals herself as Pyra makes perfect sense. It's easy to say how much destruction that power caused, but the more personal things, the little things in life, like Milton, was what really drove Mythra over the edge.

This game also does at the very least establish another thing, where we realize just how brutal and powerful a battle between the Aegis is. When we played Xenoblade Chronicles 2, I always had a hard time believing that Malos was stronger than Jin, cause Malos couldn't beat Mythra, whom Jin could, or even beat the group while Jin very easily had. But here, it is clear that Jin's power isn't actually up to par with Malos's, since Mythra had to go full power as Pneuna, while still retaining Mythra form, to truly fight against Malos. Hell, Haze tried to block Malos's power, but he easily broke out of it.

Also, despite how Mikail didn't say much at all, the idea of how he was always told to smile and how they wanted him to talk more speaks so much volume on how he ended up doing just that later on, where he smiles a lot and is a chatterbox. I always felt that he was doing it in honor of Milton, his friend that had tried to urge him the most to open up more.

The story was incredibly short, and it does hurt it overall. However, it was still very fun, and that ending battle with the Siren was just top-notch. I was really on the edge of my seat as I was getting confused in the extremeness.

I honestly rank Shulk higher than Rex. Rex was neither a chosen one, nor was he of a lineage. Zanza even says that the only reason Shulk had become his vessel was due to a whim. And Shulk also wasn't so pure that he had no ill thoughts. He was driven by the desire for revenge, but his journey made him realize that revenge was pointless. That moment he stopped Dunban from killing Mumkhar was what drove it home for me.

Another thing that I should add:

Spoiler

You mention how Mythra gets a vision and sees Rex and such. However, I should point out that when Mythra is having this, she's more in a subconscious state of mind. The release of the full extent of her powers rendered her be on autopilot mostly, hence why she went so wild that she caused most of the damage on the Tornan Titan that ultimately killed it. So Mythra has no conscious awareness that she would meet Rex. 

However, given that a lot of the things here are in regards to fate and destiny, and how the power of the Monado that gets its power from the Conduit, allows one to see the Ether flow and therefore possibly understand the movements of everything in the future, Mythra should theoretically have this power, beyond what her Foresight that she's used to is able to. So she did see the future but doesn't remember seeing it.

 

 

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1 hour ago, omegaxis1 said:

So I read it and wrote my thoughts on it:

  Reveal hidden contents

I have just completed Torna just now, and man, that ending where she seals herself as Pyra makes perfect sense. It's easy to say how much destruction that power caused, but the more personal things, the little things in life, like Milton, was what really drove Mythra over the edge.

This game also does at the very least establish another thing, where we realize just how brutal and powerful a battle between the Aegis is. When we played Xenoblade Chronicles 2, I always had a hard time believing that Malos was stronger than Jin, cause Malos couldn't beat Mythra, whom Jin could, or even beat the group while Jin very easily had. But here, it is clear that Jin's power isn't actually up to par with Malos's, since Mythra had to go full power as Pneuna, while still retaining Mythra form, to truly fight against Malos. Hell, Haze tried to block Malos's power, but he easily broke out of it.

Also, despite how Mikail didn't say much at all, the idea of how he was always told to smile and how they wanted him to talk more speaks so much volume on how he ended up doing just that later on, where he smiles a lot and is a chatterbox. I always felt that he was doing it in honor of Milton, his friend that had tried to urge him the most to open up more.

The story was incredibly short, and it does hurt it overall. However, it was still very fun, and that ending battle with the Siren was just top-notch. I was really on the edge of my seat as I was getting confused in the extremeness.

I honestly rank Shulk higher than Rex. Rex was neither a chosen one, nor was he of a lineage. Zanza even says that the only reason Shulk had become his vessel was due to a whim. And Shulk also wasn't so pure that he had no ill thoughts. He was driven by the desire for revenge, but his journey made him realize that revenge was pointless. That moment he stopped Dunban from killing Mumkhar was what drove it home for me.

Another thing that I should add:

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You mention how Mythra gets a vision and sees Rex and such. However, I should point out that when Mythra is having this, she's more in a subconscious state of mind. The release of the full extent of her powers rendered her be on autopilot mostly, hence why she went so wild that she caused most of the damage on the Tornan Titan that ultimately killed it. So Mythra has no conscious awareness that she would meet Rex. 

However, given that a lot of the things here are in regards to fate and destiny, and how the power of the Monado that gets its power from the Conduit, allows one to see the Ether flow and therefore possibly understand the movements of everything in the future, Mythra should theoretically have this power, beyond what her Foresight that she's used to is able to. So she did see the future but doesn't remember seeing it.

 

 

Spoiler

About Shulk, while Zanza does say he chose him on a whim, right before the final battle, this exchange happens

Quote

Dunban: Though you feign omnipotence, the High Entia still confined you to Prison Island! That is how limited you are.

Zanza: "Confined me? I was merely resting there for a while. I was wounded in the battle with Meyneth's vessel and rested there until a new vessel, revealed to me in a Vision, would be born.

Shulk: Until i was born?

Zanza: Percisely.

So was Shulk chosen on a whim or not? Either way, Zanza brings down Shulk's character and it's the reason Rex ranka higher for me. 

In Mechonis Core, when Zanza is ressurected, he states that "all of this waa predestined ever since i came to reside within Shulk" and then, my least favorite exchange in the whole game happens

Quote

Dunban: "So then, Shulk's ability to use the Monado"

Sharla: "And those Visions he used to save us."

Dickson: "It was all because of Lord Zanza. Lord Zanza can see the passage of fate, he simply lead you to the inevitable."

You know how Shulk goes on preaching about how he can change fate? Yeah, Zanza just took a shit on all of that. All that stuff Shulk did didn't even matter because it was gonna happen anyway. Changing fate only matters for the last 20% of the game and that shouldn't happen.

That's the main reason why i rank Rex aboce Shulk. His growth and journey just feels more natrual. And about Mythra's foresight, you're right. While i still don't like that it happened, i like the subversion of it. A prohfecy no one knew actually existed so as far as anyone was aware, everything they did was of their own will.

 

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I've completed the game last Saturday so like everyone I should probably give my thoughts about it. Overall its really good. Probably the best example of DLC I know of. I'd say the comparison of it being the Majora to the main games OOT would be pretty accurate. Its on a smaller scale but has a tighter design, tries more interesting things and feels more personal. 

The really good:

Spoiler

 

The main cast: I found it notable that every single character in the cast came off really well. The only weak link is Bridget and that's not because she's a bad character but because she doesn't get to do anything. I liked all the three teams and switched pretty regularly because I liked all of them. While I still don't like Jin he didn't get on my nerves in Torna like he did in the main game either. 

Addam: Addam's just really, really good. I was surprised this boring man with his boring cloak who only said boring things in the main game turned out to be such a great guy. He's likable, bombastic and casual while still showing he's fully deserving of the praise everyone throws his way. Despite not being the focus of the game I'd easily place him next to Shulk and Rex.

Mythra: The ending showed really nicely what Mythra went through and justifies her issues in the main game. She's also just far more enjoyable overall. Her less likable traits don't go unchallenged this time around and everyone responding to Mythra's bad behavior makes her much more enjoyable.

Team Hugo: Sadly poor Hugo didn't get a lot of focus but he still came off really well. I liked how Hugo was more than just your typical good boy ruler. He actually seems very interested in scenarios where he can let his hair down which makes him more sympathetic. Hugo sometimes being less princely than he appears while his buddy Addam is more princely than his bombastic behavior implies makes for some good chemistry and might explain why they are so close. Ageaon was also greatly helped by his Torna addition. He was nothing more than a solid Blade for Morag in the main game but here he's so much more than that. Its cute how he awkwardly flirts with the female party members or thinks he needs to babysit his master despite Hugo being a very capable adult. 

Malos: Malos once again steals the show. His voice actor was clearly having a lot of fun in the booth again so I had a lot of fun watching Malos. His lacks of complexity retroactively makes him more complex in the main game. His goal hasn't changed but you can tell Malos has been doing some soul searching between the game. 

The ending: Just a really, really strong ending. I already knew what was going to happen and some jerk spoiled certain things for me but I was still on the edge of my seat.  

 

The bad

Spoiler

 

- Amalthus: I really like Amalthus. He turned out to be a surprisingly competent villain while also managing the feat appearing very reasonable for most of the game despite being a JRPG Pope. In Torna Amalthus does neither of those things. He's not important enough to be a main villain but he also completely fails at pretending to be a good guy. From his first scene to his last he's obviously evil and everyone knows this. Cole hates his guts, Addam and Mythra don't trust him and Haze is repulsed by him. He doesn't even really help the heroes since Cole is there on his own accord rather than being sent by Amalthus, and in his sole meeting with the whole team he just sits on a chair saying nothing. All in all Amalthus moves away from what made him such a good character. Also his design is just bad. He looks like an evil mailman. 

- Prince Zettar: There really, really should have been a scene where he isn't obviously in the wrong, even if its just a single time. Making the rival of the main character 100% wrong every time he speaks is NOT how you write a compelling conflict. Even in the scene where he fears for his brother its his cowardice that gets contrasted to his brothers dignity.  

- There seems to be....missing a part of the story. The first and second fight against Malos are separated only by a blockade of sidequests. Surely they could have managed to squeeze one small story aspect between those fights. There was a perfectly capable evil pope they weren't using at the moment. The current Praetor trying to kidnap Mythra to make up for Malos going rogue seems in character for him. Alternatively something with a focus on Hugo could also have worked. 

 

 

Edited by Etrurian emperor
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21 minutes ago, Armagon said:
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About Shulk, while Zanza does say he chose him on a whim, right before the final battle, this exchange happens

So was Shulk chosen on a whim or not? Either way, Zanza brings down Shulk's character and it's the reason Rex ranka higher for me. 

In Mechonis Core, when Zanza is ressurected, he states that "all of this waa predestined ever since i came to reside within Shulk" and then, my least favorite exchange in the whole game happens

You know how Shulk goes on preaching about how he can change fate? Yeah, Zanza just took a shit on all of that. All that stuff Shulk did didn't even matter because it was gonna happen anyway. Changing fate only matters for the last 20% of the game and that shouldn't happen.

That's the main reason why i rank Rex aboce Shulk. His growth and journey just feels more natrual. And about Mythra's foresight, you're right. While i still don't like that it happened, i like the subversion of it. A prohfecy no one knew actually existed so as far as anyone was aware, everything they did was of their own will.

 

Spoiler

However, think about this. Zanza has always followed most of the things through the passage of fate in that he believes everything is set in stone. Shulk doesn't believe that and has proven that it wasn't always set in stone. The entire reason that Zanza began his attempt at genocide was because of how he could not see things in the future and feared that they grew beyond his ability to see, and thus would spell his own end. Even at the end, he's struggling with the idea of being unable to see everything despite having two Monados.

In all honesty, I felt the one that truly developed and grew a lot was Shulk, not Rex. Shulk started his entire journey as a quest on hatred. He experienced loss on the first Mechon fight, but after finding Fiora again, he began to change his quest, realizing how Shulk is not so different from the Mechon. Though Rex has lost Vandham and Haze, both characters appeared as new figures in Rex's life and thus didn't last long enough, whereas with Shulk, losing Fiora and the Emperor were things that happened in visions and Shulk has to deal with the fact that despite everything, and seeing it happen, he couldn't prevent it. 

This can just go down to personal preference, though I still do like Rex.

1

Another thing I realized.

Spoiler

The fact that Addam's uncle is revealed to be alive at the end and likely became the ruler of Tantal, wouldn't this basically mean that Zeke actually IS a descendant of Addam, albeit an indirect one? 

Also, Addam having revealed to have a wife that's pregnant might give the implication that Rex is his descendant, and the thing is... anyone notice that Addam and Rex have the same colored eyes? Malos pointed it out, how Malos pointed out that Tornans have blue eyes, but Addam has golden eyes, hinting that Addam is an illegitimate child. So Rex having golden eyes means that he's likely Addam's descendant. 

 

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