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Xenoblade Chronicles 2


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1 hour ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Not being able to jump and climb

You can do that though. Granted, there isn't much of it in Torna but in the main game, there's quite a few platforming sections that are either optional pathways or mandatory.

 

1 hour ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

It feels like the map could use a few extra landmarks,

I think that part is actually intentional for Gormott anyway. In Torna, Gormott is an underdeveloped land where in the main game, it's a thriving province, so it has more landmarks (and it's also just bigger in the main game, in Torna, Gormott is limited to just the Upper Right region).

The Kingdom of Torna has 5 regions, including the capital so there's a lot more landmarks there.

 

 

1 hour ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Hope there are auto attack accelerator accessories/cores eventually, even if they're rare.

While there aren't, leveling up Arts does accelerate the recharge rate. And each Driver has three Skills that let you start a battle with the Arts already charged, one for each button (and they also have a skill that lets them cancel Arts into Arts).

 

There's also a trick that you can do where, after the first auto-attack, quickly flick the control stick in any direction. This resets the auto-attack animation and allows you to fill up Arts more quickly compared to just auto-attacking normally. Doesn't work with every character though.

1 hour ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Also, what are these 16 critical paths for Chain Attacks the game speaks of? It says one of them, but doesn't inform me of any other. Is it just expecting me to mash Specials together and hope for the best? Could I at least have a little log keeping track of which ones I have pulled off?

And the game speaks of elemental strengths and weaknesses. Are they fixed relationships? Or does it vary on an enemy by enemy basis? Is Earth always effective on Wind, or can one enemy that uses Wind be weak to Earth, and a different Wind enemy weak to Thunder?

The 16 critical Blade Combos (the Chain Attacks are something else entierly, i'll get to that later) are basically most of the Blade Combos from the main game and these have specific names as oppsed to just "Fire, Fire II, Fire III". A big difference between the main game and Torna is that the former's Blade Combos have to be initiated in a specific order (and the required paths will show up on the top right) while the latter's Blade Combos can be done in any order. The Critical Blade Combos just have a fancy name and animation and also deal more damage.

As for elemental weaknesses, yes they are fixed. Fire monsters will always be weak to Water and so on.

 

Anyway, you've been confusing Blade Combos with Chain Attacks. You know those Orbs that appear circling an enemy whenever you land a Special? Chain Attacks are used to break them to deal massive damage. Chain Attacks are mostly the same as they did in XC1, except instead of going all out with Arts, you go all out with the Specials. Each Orb has three HP and using an opposing element deals 2 points of damage to that Orb. Opposing elements also prioritize, meaning if there's a fire Orb and you use a water Special, it will always target the fire Orb. Breaking an Orb extends the Chain Attack, so unlike XC1, Chain Attack extensions are actually reliable.

If you manage to break enough Orbs (i think 5 is the minimum), you enter Full Burst where any remaining Orbs break automatically, adding to the damage multiplier as everyone simultanously attacks the target while the one responsible triggering the Full Burst finishes it off with a Lv.4 Special. Super powerful and really satisfying to pull off. It's harder to do in the main game though, as the Orbs will only appear when a Blade Combo is complete, not when a Special is preformed.

I don't think you can do them yet though. I don't remember but just like the main game, Torna probably won't let you do Chain Attacks until it teaches you how to do it.

Edited by Armagon
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So come to think of it....where exactly did Malos get his robot army from when he attacked Torna? Its easy to tell where he got them from in the main game

Spoiler

Malos sending them to raid Alrest only after making it up the world tree suggests he hijacked the Artifice army of the space station

But in Torna he shouldn't have access to that robot army since he hasn't climbed Elysium yet. 

Edited by Etrurian emperor
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5 minutes ago, Etrurian emperor said:

So come to think of it....where exactly did Malos get his robot army from when he attacked Torna? Its easy to tell where he got them from in the main game

  Hide contents

Malos sending them to raid Alrest only after making it up the world tree suggests he hijacked the Artifice army of the space station

But in Torna he shouldn't have access to that robot army since he hasn't climbed Elysium yet. 

Spoiler

They did say that Malos commanded an army of Artifices in the Aegis War in the main game. However, I do agree that I don't get why he controls so many when Mythra controls only 2, being Ophion and Siren.

Hell, apparently Malos didn't even know about Aion until he took data from Mythra's core to restore himself. Mythra is apparently directly linked to Aion, the strongest Artifice, while Malos isn't.

Since in Torna and Main game, when Mythra tapped into her true power as Pneuma, Aion is shown to activate somehow. 

Perhaps it could be seen as this:

Logos commands 1 Siren, and legions of lesser Artifices. 

Pneuma controls another Siren, Ophion, and is linked to the strongest Artifice, Aion. 

Basically, Pneuma gets the better toys. No wonder she's overall stronger than Logos.

 

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58 minutes ago, Etrurian emperor said:

So come to think of it....where exactly did Malos get his robot army from when he attacked Torna? Its easy to tell where he got them from in the main game

  Reveal hidden contents

Malos sending them to raid Alrest only after making it up the world tree suggests he hijacked the Artifice army of the space station

But in Torna he shouldn't have access to that robot army since he hasn't climbed Elysium yet. 

Controlling Artifices is one of the abilities of the Aegises. Pyra in Chapter 6 knows the Artifices are from Elysium but not much else (Nia in particular wonders how Elysium is both a divine paradise and a "scary weapon stash"), so presumably the Aegises can call them down from Elysium at will.

Spoiler

Malos lost his ability to control them when his Core Crystal was damaged, so he couldn't regain his army or hijack Ophion until it was repaired.

It's likely that controlling the Artifices was another of the Trinity Processor's functions back before the experiment (in addition to controlling the Conduit). We don't know for sure if Ontos, Logos, and Pneuma had specific functions, but commanding the Artifices might have been Logos's specialty while Pneuma got Aion.

 

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3 hours ago, Lightchao42 said:

Controlling Artifices is one of the abilities of the Aegises. Pyra in Chapter 6 knows the Artifices are from Elysium but not much else (Nia in particular wonders how Elysium is both a divine paradise and a "scary weapon stash"), so presumably the Aegises can call them down from Elysium at will.

  Hide contents

Malos lost his ability to control them when his Core Crystal was damaged, so he couldn't regain his army or hijack Ophion until it was repaired.

It's likely that controlling the Artifices was another of the Trinity Processor's functions back before the experiment (in addition to controlling the Conduit). We don't know for sure if Ontos, Logos, and Pneuma had specific functions, but commanding the Artifices might have been Logos's specialty while Pneuma got Aion.

 

Spoiler

It is. Notice that Artifices all have two things in common. A Zohra/Conduit shaped Core and a halo. Thus, they draw their power from the Conduit or at the very least, the Conduit is required for activation.

 

5 hours ago, omegaxis1 said:
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They did say that Malos commanded an army of Artifices in the Aegis War in the main game. However, I do agree that I don't get why he controls so many when Mythra controls only 2, being Ophion and Siren.

Hell, apparently Malos didn't even know about Aion until he took data from Mythra's core to restore himself. Mythra is apparently directly linked to Aion, the strongest Artifice, while Malos isn't.

Since in Torna and Main game, when Mythra tapped into her true power as Pneuma, Aion is shown to activate somehow. 

Perhaps it could be seen as this:

Logos commands 1 Siren, and legions of lesser Artifices. 

Pneuma controls another Siren, Ophion, and is linked to the strongest Artifice, Aion. 

Basically, Pneuma gets the better toys. No wonder she's overall stronger than Logos.

 

Spoiler

It is possible that most of the Artifices that Mythra could've controlled had already been destroyed in the Savorite War (let's call it that for now). They specifically made a point of "Echelon Siren loses" reaching 60%. The Siren that Malos had is probably a different model and likely the last one remaining.

So theory time: Logos commands the Black Siren, the Gargoyles and the Colossuses. Pneuma commands the Echelon Sirens, the Ophions and a third, unknown Artifice. Most of the Echelon Sirens, all but one of the Ophions and all of the third, unknown Artifices were destroyed while the Black Siren, Gargoyles and Colossuses remained.

Aion likely isn't inheritlt linked to any of them but Mythra temporarily awakend it when she went berserk and broke the limits of her power.

What Artifices Ontos would've had are a mystery but let's say all of them were destroyed.

 

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9 minutes ago, Armagon said:
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It is. Notice that Artifices all have two things in common. A Zohra/Conduit shaped Core and a halo. Thus, they draw their power from the Conduit or at the very least, the Conduit is required for activation.

 

  Hide contents

It is possible that most of the Artifices that Mythra could've controlled had already been destroyed in the Savorite War (let's call it that for now). They specifically made a point of "Echelon Siren loses" reaching 60%. The Siren that Malos had is probably a different model and likely the last one remaining.

So theory time: Logos commands the Black Siren, the Gargoyles and the Colossuses. Pneuma commands the Echelon Sirens, the Ophions and a third, unknown Artifice. Most of the Echelon Sirens, all but one of the Ophions and all of the third, unknown Artifices were destroyed while the Black Siren, Gargoyles and Colossuses remained.

Aion likely isn't inheritlt linked to any of them but Mythra temporarily awakend it when she went berserk and broke the limits of her power.

What Artifices Ontos would've had are a mystery but let's say all of them were destroyed.

 

Spoiler

The odd thing is that it feels like Aion is apparently supposed to "represent" both Pyra and Mythra, the right blade/red side being Pyra, and the white/green side being Mythra. It's kind of odd to say that, when I felt that it was meant to actually represent light and darkness, therefore Malos and Mythra. However, thinking back on it, doesn't Aion have a Core Crystal on is that resembles Mythra's? In which case, Mythra was always meant to command Aion. This is because Malos's Artifices have the same core crystal as himself.

 

 

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46 minutes ago, Armagon said:
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It is. Notice that Artifices all have two things in common. A Zohra/Conduit shaped Core and a halo. Thus, they draw their power from the Conduit or at the very least, the Conduit is required for activation.

 

  Hide contents

It is possible that most of the Artifices that Mythra could've controlled had already been destroyed in the Savorite War (let's call it that for now). They specifically made a point of "Echelon Siren loses" reaching 60%. The Siren that Malos had is probably a different model and likely the last one remaining.

So theory time: Logos commands the Black Siren, the Gargoyles and the Colossuses. Pneuma commands the Echelon Sirens, the Ophions and a third, unknown Artifice. Most of the Echelon Sirens, all but one of the Ophions and all of the third, unknown Artifices were destroyed while the Black Siren, Gargoyles and Colossuses remained.

Aion likely isn't inheritlt linked to any of them but Mythra temporarily awakend it when she went berserk and broke the limits of her power.

What Artifices Ontos would've had are a mystery but let's say all of them were destroyed.

 

If we're theorizing

Spoiler

I think each of the Aegises can do everything the other Aegises can, but each of them might have a specialty.

The fact that Malos is capable of seizing control of Ophion in Mythra's absence, and that the Sirens raining destruction on Alrest during Chapter 10 are the same as Mythra's version, makes me think that controlling the "minor" Artifices is his specialty. Black Siren could be a particular model that was somehow customized by him, since it's beam uses Malos's dark energy instead of beams of light like the rest of the Sirens.

Mythra can also control Artifices, but she only has two that Malos did not "claim" for himself: her own personal Siren and Ophion, the last of which may be one-of-a-kind. Pyra having a vague memory of Elysium makes me think that maintaining the space colony as a whole was one of Pneuma's primary functions.

Lastly, using the Conduit's reality warping abilities might have been Ontos's specialty. If Ontos is Alvis, it would explain why he remembers the experiment while none of the other Aegises do.

Aion, a superweapon that draws power from the Conduit much like Xenogears's Deus, seems to need all three Aegises to operate at full power. Mythra might've regained knowledge of it during the incident at the end of TTGC, which is why it represents the power she fears so much.

Theorycrafting is fun!

31 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:
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The odd thing is that it feels like Aion is apparently supposed to "represent" both Pyra and Mythra, the right blade/red side being Pyra, and the white/green side being Mythra. It's kind of odd to say that, when I felt that it was meant to actually represent light and darkness, therefore Malos and Mythra. However, thinking back on it, doesn't Aion have a Core Crystal on is that resembles Mythra's? In which case, Mythra was always meant to command Aion. This is because Malos's Artifices have the same core crystal as himself.

 

 

Actually

Spoiler

The black and red half of Aion has the same jagged red wings as Malos's Artifices (rather than the smooth green wings of Mythra's Siren), so if anything it represents Logos and Pneuma. Or it might not represent any of the Aegises, since Ontos has no representation, and the duality is symbolic of its potential nature as the world's savior or destroyer. The minor Artifices all have green cores, aside from Malos's personal Siren, so the color might not mean anything in their case.

 

Edited by Lightchao42
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31 minutes ago, Lightchao42 said:

 

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The black and red half of Aion has the same jagged red wings as Malos's Artifices (rather than the smooth green wings of Mythra's Siren), so if anything it represents Logos and Pneuma. Or it might not represent any of the Aegises, since Ontos has no representation, and the duality is symbolic of its potential nature as the world's savior or destroyer. The minor Artifices all have green cores, aside from Malos's personal Siren, so the color might not mean anything in their case.

 

 
Spoiler

That's exactly what I was thinking. Yet in the vision with Rex, it has Pyra standing in front of the right side of Aion, and Mythra on the left side, as if showing that it's to represent them. Which is weird, because I think it's supposed to be Malos and Mythra.

 

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On 10/8/2018 at 2:28 PM, Armagon said:

I don't think you can do them yet though. I don't remember but just like the main game, Torna probably won't let you do Chain Attacks until it teaches you how to do it.

When I checked the tutorials, I noticed there were none for Chain Attacks in my options, so then I realized I mustn't have unlocked them yet.

My confusion likely stemmed from from the Blades having skills that require they perform Chain Attacks to unlock and me being frustrated I wasn't making progress on getting them. The game is nice enough to "???" requirements with killing enemies whose areas you haven't reached yet, but they didn't do this with Chain Attacks.

 

Hope nobody minds if I continue to post all my rambling comments about this game here. I’ll throw it in spoilers to save visual space. Plus I mention XC1 spoilers in this particular set of musings.:

 

Spoiler
  • The one sparring scene was cool; in the main game I heard before the Blades just kinda chill and give over their power to the Driver to use? Sounds a little boring by comparison (I should enjoy it anyhow). And assigning such random, innocent roots to so massive a changeover is well... funny I guess. If in its own way realistic. IRL, not all of human progress has come from intelligent examination and refinement, more than a few developments in all sorts of fields have derived from big happy accidents and little realizations.
  • There is one little thing I don't yet have an answer to, but will find out later once I play the main game. Hugo's two Blades sounded like they were passed down through the generations, which would mean these Blades are hundreds if not thousands of years old. Are Blades immortal to age? Or does being inactive for a long enough time cause memory loss? Or maybe they have a reset function? At least three of these Blades appear in the main game right? Leaves me wondering.
  • Liked the music for the Chain Attack tutorial boss battle, and getting Addam’s other Blade. Finally all introductions are past and I have the entire set of heroes. 
  • Could’ve done without the lighthearted anime joke scenes they’ve tossed in here. They’re the epitome of cliched, if still much better than the Lin and Tatsu schticks, into the gut of the Telethia for the both of them.
  • At first I thought the new guy (haven’t had him long enough to remember his name) was Darkness, but then noticed it was Gravity. I didn’t think Gravity would be an element in this game, and I sorta assumed I wouldn’t be getting a Dark Blade, since the cutscenes make it kinda clear that it Malos is Dark, in contrast to Mythra’s Light I imagine. Wonder how the main game’s Pyrrha- who is Mythra’s “sister” from little I’m aware, ties into this elemental arrangement, if at all. Brings to mind Arc Rise Fantasia, where Light and Dark were composite elements, made of two of the primary elements. Light was Fire + Wind, Dark was Fire + Earth, making the two strangely not total opposites- Ice (Water + Earth) was the opposite of Light, and Lightning (Water + Wind) was the opposite of Dark.
  • This said, Mr. Gravity is welcome to me. While the GBA SRW games introduced me to the sci-fi concept of weaponized gravity, there is came off as in a way cheap, since Original Generations 2 made gravity come off as the common mass-producible ultimate weapon power source. For some reason in XCX though, when I chose instead of Melee, Ranged, or Potential build, to go for an Attribute build, I fell in love with the concept of weaponized gravity and chose that to be the Attribute of my focus.
  • As for his fighting style, the Flesh Eater seems to be a remix of the Winged Viper/Full Metal Jaguar of XCX- dual guns and dual daggers/small swords. In gameplay, he is no blatant Elma/Phog/Murderess/Celica copy, if still leaning on offense with some support like the XCX class. The Spanish art names are neat touch, insinuating a little flair into his abilities.
  • About the guy’s background, the concept of Flesh Eater works I guess, although a prior cutscene in this game suggested to me there shouldn’t be, in theory, instability issues reconciling Blade-ness and humanity in one being. “In theory” being the key words here.
  • The personal Lora enemy- the Mumbkar inspiration is apparent. Lora’s sparing of him recalled to mind immediately the “ugh” call of Shulk to get Dunban to spare the dirtbag. Here though, it sounded as if Lora had an actual unstated reason for sparing him. Hopefully it will be stated eventually, and that it will actually be good. Although he is in a sense also your lowly brigand baddie in how crude he is.
  • And okay, the game clarified a misunderstanding of mine- assuming I’m not misunderstanding again. Thought that the new game startup exposition was saying Tourna would eventually sink, didn’t realize Malice+Chaos (unless informed otherwise, I’m going to think this is where the guy’s name came from) dropped a different Titan at the start. RIP continent I never got to know nor see. (And on the naming note, Mythra is certainly based on Mitra/Mithra the Zorastrian yazata (“angel”) of light.)
  • That blue guy Quaestor Amarthus(?) doesn’t look particular intimidating for a villain, about as intimidating as the Gazel Ministry, but it seems like the game is setting him up as a major misanthrope, with a bit of a sympathetic side so far. Haven’t gotten a real good sense of why he despairs yet, glum from reading the scriptures and general generic criticism of humanity isn’t quite enough, nothing personally despairing has arisen yet for him. 
  • Malos, to mention him once more, seems to be more a simple beast and less a nuanced human in terms of villainy. Power wishing to be exercised, smug, wanting of nothing but to see strength unleashed, ideally with him triumphing over it and perhaps adding it to his own if it opposes him. Doesn’t seem like a villain who’ll get that fleshed out, not that he has to be if Amarthus works out in the end. Or if this game is ultimately cast as just a little sidestory in reference to XC2 maingame.

 

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4 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

When I checked the tutorials, I noticed there were none for Chain Attacks in my options, so then I realized I mustn't have unlocked them yet.

My confusion likely stemmed from from the Blades having skills that require they perform Chain Attacks to unlock and me being frustrated I wasn't making progress on getting them. The game is nice enough to "???" requirements with killing enemies whose areas you haven't reached yet, but they didn't do this with Chain Attacks.

 

Hope nobody minds if I continue to post all my rambling comments about this game here. I’ll throw it in spoilers to save visual space. Plus I mention XC1 spoilers in this particular set of musings.:

 

  Hide contents
  • The one sparring scene was cool; in the main game I heard before the Blades just kinda chill and give over their power to the Driver to use? Sounds a little boring by comparison (I should enjoy it anyhow). And assigning such random, innocent roots to so massive a changeover is well... funny I guess. If in its own way realistic. IRL, not all of human progress has come from intelligent examination and refinement, more than a few developments in all sorts of fields have derived from big happy accidents and little realizations.
  • There is one little thing I don't yet have an answer to, but will find out later once I play the main game. Hugo's two Blades sounded like they were passed down through the generations, which would mean these Blades are hundreds if not thousands of years old. Are Blades immortal to age? Or does being inactive for a long enough time cause memory loss? Or maybe they have a reset function? At least three of these Blades appear in the main game right? Leaves me wondering.
  • Liked the music for the Chain Attack tutorial boss battle, and getting Addam’s other Blade. Finally all introductions are past and I have the entire set of heroes. 
  • Could’ve done without the lighthearted anime joke scenes they’ve tossed in here. They’re the epitome of cliched, if still much better than the Lin and Tatsu schticks, into the gut of the Telethia for the both of them.
  • At first I thought the new guy (haven’t had him long enough to remember his name) was Darkness, but then noticed it was Gravity. I didn’t think Gravity would be an element in this game, and I sorta assumed I wouldn’t be getting a Dark Blade, since the cutscenes make it kinda clear that it Malos is Dark, in contrast to Mythra’s Light I imagine. Wonder how the main game’s Pyrrha- who is Mythra’s “sister” from little I’m aware, ties into this elemental arrangement, if at all. Brings to mind Arc Rise Fantasia, where Light and Dark were composite elements, made of two of the primary elements. Light was Fire + Wind, Dark was Fire + Earth, making the two strangely not total opposites- Ice (Water + Earth) was the opposite of Light, and Lightning (Water + Wind) was the opposite of Dark.
  • This said, Mr. Gravity is welcome to me. While the GBA SRW games introduced me to the sci-fi concept of weaponized gravity, there is came off as in a way cheap, since Original Generations 2 made gravity come off as the common mass-producible ultimate weapon power source. For some reason in XCX though, when I chose instead of Melee, Ranged, or Potential build, to go for an Attribute build, I fell in love with the concept of weaponized gravity and chose that to be the Attribute of my focus.
  • As for his fighting style, the Flesh Eater seems to be a remix of the Winged Viper/Full Metal Jaguar of XCX- dual guns and dual daggers/small swords. In gameplay, he is no blatant Elma/Phog/Murderess/Celica copy, if still leaning on offense with some support like the XCX class. The Spanish art names are neat touch, insinuating a little flair into his abilities.
  • About the guy’s background, the concept of Flesh Eater works I guess, although a prior cutscene in this game suggested to me there shouldn’t be, in theory, instability issues reconciling Blade-ness and humanity in one being. “In theory” being the key words here.
  • The personal Lora enemy- the Mumbkar inspiration is apparent. Lora’s sparing of him recalled to mind immediately the “ugh” call of Shulk to get Dunban to spare the dirtbag. Here though, it sounded as if Lora had an actual unstated reason for sparing him. Hopefully it will be stated eventually, and that it will actually be good. Although he is in a sense also your lowly brigand baddie in how crude he is.
  • And okay, the game clarified a misunderstanding of mine- assuming I’m not misunderstanding again. Thought that the new game startup exposition was saying Tourna would eventually sink, didn’t realize Malice+Chaos (unless informed otherwise, I’m going to think this is where the guy’s name came from) dropped a different Titan at the start. RIP continent I never got to know nor see. (And on the naming note, Mythra is certainly based on Mitra/Mithra the Zorastrian yazata (“angel”) of light.)
  • That blue guy Quaestor Amarthus(?) doesn’t look particular intimidating for a villain, about as intimidating as the Gazel Ministry, but it seems like the game is setting him up as a major misanthrope, with a bit of a sympathetic side so far. Haven’t gotten a real good sense of why he despairs yet, glum from reading the scriptures and general generic criticism of humanity isn’t quite enough, nothing personally despairing has arisen yet for him. 
  • Malos, to mention him once more, seems to be more a simple beast and less a nuanced human in terms of villainy. Power wishing to be exercised, smug, wanting of nothing but to see strength unleashed, ideally with him triumphing over it and perhaps adding it to his own if it opposes him. Doesn’t seem like a villain who’ll get that fleshed out, not that he has to be if Amarthus works out in the end. Or if this game is ultimately cast as just a little sidestory in reference to XC2 maingame.

 

Spoiler

In regards to the Mumkhar one, even if Mumkhar is a scumbag, that scene where Shulk stopped Dunban from killing him was the defining moment for me that loved him, and what made Shulk such an awesome character. By stopping someone from carrying out revenge, Shulk shows how much he's grown. He hates Mumkhar as much as Dunban does for killing Fiora, but that personal hatred is something that made Shulk so awesome. He has hatred, but he learns to look past them. It's precisely why he was able to also help Egil realize the error in his ways, and also why Shulk was able to not be Zanza's puppet. 

Hell, we even see how Mumkhar consumed by his hatred made him ultimately blind to everything else that he got himself killed. 

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@omegaxis1

Spoiler

I'll admit to the choice of sparing Mumkhar being a gradual step along the progression of understanding the Mechon. This progression being:

  1. Dunban in Sword Valley- the Mechon as a brainless, leaderless, and faceless (wordplay intended) horde. 
  2. Attack on Colony 9- the Mechon gain a face- a clear, if silent and enigmatic "leader".
  3. Attack on Bionis Leg, Ether Mine, and Colony 6- another Face is shown, it speaks, and then after killing it, you see the first Face again, speaking, with a bunch of other Faces identical to the one you just killed shown in the background. Also Xord's mysterious last words.
  4. Erthy Sea Pre-Prison Island- The player gets to see Face Nemesis, it speaks, and disagrees with Metal Face.
  5. Shulk's vengeful strike on Prison Island- Forces him to reconsider everything.
  6. Valak Mountains- The true leader of the Mechon finally shows up, and Mumkhar makes his official reveal.
  7. Sword Valley- Shulk tries to save Mumkhar.
  8. Galahad Fortress- Shulk saves Fiora.
  9. Mechonis Village- Learning about the Machina and Egil.
  10. Agniratha- Discovering the Bionis-originated tragedy that led to Egil's desires. (Gadolt doesn't fundamentally change a thing.)
  11. Confronting Egil- Getting the Mechon leader's motivations from him himself. 
  12. Shulk just barely chooses to spare Egil.
  13. Zanza pops out, Egil punches the Bionis to a last-ditch attempt to help Shulk. The Mechon leader in his very last minute becomes a good guy.

Mumkhar is a step in this long chain that exists through most of the game.

But I still have issues with how Shulk acts at Sword Valley. I get it- he is very confused at the moment, because he is still reeling from Prison Island- the black and white good and evil he believed in is now gone. Nonetheless, this awkward moment of him speaks a little too much naive idealistic JRPG protag to me. To an extent, it drags down Dunban as well that he heeded Shulk's call.

Not helping is how scummy Mumkhar is, if Dunban didn't say he was a friend, we'd have zero reason to even try to like him. Not that we get any real sense of the friendship he had with Dunban and Dickson. Egil on the other hand does have shown redeeming qualities and a shown tragic past. And Dickson is nice until he starts smoking.

 

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13 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

@omegaxis1

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I'll admit to the choice of sparing Mumkhar being a gradual step along the progression of understanding the Mechon. This progression being:

  1. Dunban in Sword Valley- the Mechon as a brainless, leaderless, and faceless (wordplay intended) horde. 
  2. Attack on Colony 9- the Mechon gain a face- a clear, if silent and enigmatic "leader".
  3. Attack on Bionis Leg, Ether Mine, and Colony 6- another Face is shown, it speaks, and then after killing it, you see the first Face again, speaking, with a bunch of other Faces identical to the one you just killed shown in the background. Also Xord's mysterious last words.
  4. Erthy Sea Pre-Prison Island- The player gets to see Face Nemesis, it speaks, and disagrees with Metal Face.
  5. Shulk's vengeful strike on Prison Island- Forces him to reconsider everything.
  6. Valak Mountains- The true leader of the Mechon finally shows up, and Mumkhar makes his official reveal.
  7. Sword Valley- Shulk tries to save Mumkhar.
  8. Galahad Fortress- Shulk saves Fiora.
  9. Mechonis Village- Learning about the Machina and Egil.
  10. Agniratha- Discovering the Bionis-originated tragedy that led to Egil's desires. (Gadolt doesn't fundamentally change a thing.)
  11. Confronting Egil- Getting the Mechon leader's motivations from him himself. 
  12. Shulk just barely chooses to spare Egil.
  13. Zanza pops out, Egil punches the Bionis to a last-ditch attempt to help Shulk. The Mechon leader in his very last minute becomes a good guy.

Mumkhar is a step in this long chain that exists through most of the game.

But I still have issues with how Shulk acts at Sword Valley. I get it- he is very confused at the moment, because he is still reeling from Prison Island- the black and white good and evil he believed in is now gone. Nonetheless, this awkward moment of him speaks a little too much naive idealistic JRPG protag to me. To an extent, it drags down Dunban as well that he heeded Shulk's call.

Not helping is how scummy Mumkhar is, if Dunban didn't say he was a friend, we'd have zero reason to even try to like him. Not that we get any real sense of the friendship he had with Dunban and Dickson. Egil on the other hand does have shown redeeming qualities and a shown tragic past. And Dickson is nice until he starts smoking.

 

Spoiler

It's because at this point, if they kill Mumkhar now, knowing that he's a Homs that has been turned by the Mechon, they are willing to kill their own race. It's the case where they have to also be willing to kill Fiora, hence why Shulk mentions her when confronting Dunban. Dunban acknowledging Shulk's words and choosing to spare Mumkhar isn't an act that actually drags him down, but pushes him forward at the role he plays. He's the mentor figure for Shulk, someone that Dunban passed the torch onto. He's been seeing how much Shulk has grown over the journey and seeing how far Shulk was willing to go that he would put aside vengeance for the sake of understanding the entire point of the war, it's Dunban's way of truly acknowledging Shulk's progress.

If he didn't heed Shulk's call, it would drag Dunban's character down because he doesn't acknowledge Shulk's growth, which hurts the role that Dunban was meant to play. 

Mumkhar represents the blind fury of hatred and how much it corrupts you. He was corrupted by it so much that he got himself killed. When Dunban calmed down and heeded Shulk's call, he saw with a clear head how horrible hatred has warped the man that was once his war buddy. 

3

 

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2 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

At first I thought the new guy (haven’t had him long enough to remember his name) was Darkness, but then noticed it was Gravity. I didn’t think Gravity would be an element in this game, and I sorta assumed I wouldn’t be getting a Dark Blade, since the cutscenes make it kinda clear that it Malos is Dark, in contrast to Mythra’s Light I imagine.

Actually, Minoth (the guy you're thinking of) is a Dark element Blade. Gravity is just the name of the Lv.1 Dark Special.

Now that you have him, assuming you haven't changed any of the Driver's elements, you have all 8 elements in the game covered.

2 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

didn’t realize Malice+Chaos (unless informed otherwise, I’m going to think this is where the guy’s name came from)

I believe it actually originates from the Spanish word "malo" which means bad. Although your interpretation also works.

2 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Malos, to mention him once more, seems to be more a simple beast and less a nuanced human in terms of villainy. Power wishing to be exercised, smug, wanting of nothing but to see strength unleashed, ideally with him triumphing over it and perhaps adding it to his own if it opposes him. Doesn’t seem like a villain who’ll get that fleshed out, not that he has to be if Amarthus works out in the end. Or if this game is ultimately cast as just a little sidestory in reference to XC2 maingame.

Right now he is but to be fair, you've only experience him in Torna. After playing both this and main game, Malos actually ended up becoming my favorite Xeno villain.

2 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

There is one little thing I don't yet have an answer to, but will find out later once I play the main game. Hugo's two Blades sounded like they were passed down through the generations, which would mean these Blades are hundreds if not thousands of years old. Are Blades immortal to age? Or does being inactive for a long enough time cause memory loss? Or maybe they have a reset function? At least three of these Blades appear in the main game right? Leaves me wondering.

This bit isn't really a spoiler but i'll place it in a spoiler in case you want to find out yourself

Spoiler

Basically, Blades are immortal so long as either

  1. Their Core remains intact
  2. Their Driver is alive

When a Blade's Driver dies, a Blade returns to their Core and becomes unusable for a while. Eventually, it'll be ready for reawakening with a new Driver. However, this process wipes their memories. The only thing a Blade remembers is their name and their general fighting style. Their basic personality also remains but that doesn't stop them from evolving it during their current awakening (notice how Brighid is a bit of a smartass in Torna, usually towards Mythra. She isn't in the main game but her general way of speaking and refinement is the same).

 

Spoiler
2 hours ago, omegaxis1 said:

In regards to the Mumkhar one, even if Mumkhar is a scumbag, that scene where Shulk stopped Dunban from killing him was the defining moment for me that loved him, and what made Shulk such an awesome character. By stopping someone from carrying out revenge, Shulk shows how much he's grown.

To be honest, that growth was really dependent on Fiora being alive. If she had actually stayed dead/they didn't find out until later that she was alive, would Shulk still have spared Mumkhar or would have he just ran the Monado through him?

Shulk does have some great moments, i just don't know if this was one of them. It could've been done better, in my opinion.

 

 

Edited by Armagon
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2 minutes ago, Armagon said:

 

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To be honest, that growth was really dependent on Fiora being alive. If she had actually stayed dead/they didn't find out until later that she was alive, would Shulk still have spared Mumkhar or would have he just ran the Monado through him?

Shulk does have some great moments, i just don't know if this was one of them. It could've been done better, in my opinion.

 

1
Spoiler

We already see that he was willing to do that when he was first attacking him as Metal Face. 

Quote

 

Shulk: You will know the pain and suffering you caused the Emperor and Fiora!

 

 

It's precisely because the object of his hatred is revealed to still exist that he was able to realize that he can't look solely towards hatred. Remember that Zanza existed within Shulk and has been compelling him. 

Someone pointed it out to me, but Shulk indirectly reveals that Zanza exists inside him. Right before him and Ryen left Colony 9, Shulk says:

Quote

Shulk: In my head, there are two versions of me. One of them is saying that. It's telling me, "Listen to what Dunban said."

Ryen: What about the other one?

Shulk: It keeps shouting, "Make them pay!" "Destroy every single one of them!" And it won't stop getting louder.

It's realizing that Fiora was still alive that Shulk ended up seeing past the hatred he had, fighting Zanza more and more within him. 

 

 

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Though Torna's been out for a while now, they finally released an English version of the Japanese overview trailer.

The non-plot related content is between 0:40 and 5:12.

Edited by Lightchao42
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On 10/10/2018 at 4:32 PM, Armagon said:

This bit isn't really a spoiler but i'll place it in a spoiler in case you want to find out yourself

…And the very next scene I get when playing pretty much says Blades don’t retain their memories. Thanks for the info to clarify why this is. 

A user-initialization memory wipe be darned. But…

(Just putting possibly wrong speculation for the sake of speculation, not so much my vague predictions of what the main plot may involve, tucked away in its own space. Some spoilers included to this little game, not like it really matters here. Plus some XCX, which I flipped the sentence and its individual words of, on top of shrinking them down.)

Spoiler

…it’d make sense for keeping this story self-contained, and doesn't sound like it'd be a BS move here, finding a good place within the world's logic. Blades sound like they have a lot of DNA, why can't they store the memories in their introns? Or put the Driver in cryostasis and send their consciousnesses into mimeosomes? .emag taht ni yrtsinim eht lla er'yeht taht dezilaer tsuj ev'I dnA Not like XG invented the sci-fi concept, it’s been around long. On the plus side, it means there can't really be too much of referencing the then-under-development prequel in the main game, and for a normal player no nagging sense of "I wish I knew what they were referring to in more detail".

It also keeps Brighid from becoming the ultimate powerful pseudo-dowager empress, able to be the puppet master of every heir to the throne for as the long as the empire exists (and nobody successfully coups her). A foundation for some kind of fanfic here. And Jin from being edgy about the past. Although how did he end up with Lora then?

Although now that I think about it more, maybe resetting the memories is good for humankind. Sure Blades are forced into being pawns of intelligent naturally-derived lifeforms, and this background stuff some of these NPCs are saying of Blade treatment in Uraya amounts to abuse it sounds like. But I can see it now “for so long I have been tied to incompetent humans” says a disgruntled Blade. “I can’t stand it anymore! I WILL GET MY FREEDOM!” Letting Blades retain their memories would in a way make them more powerful than humans, for they could live much longer and gain much more wisdom, power, and experience as a result. And yet as strong as they are, they have no choice but to serve (Malos seems so far to be a semi-case of rebellion within the shackle though- Amalthus’s intentions being presently a little blurry to me). 

Although I can see avenues for escaping the shackle whilst remaining bound to an organic lifeform. Given what is said in the one scene in Blades being Mews (or are they Mewtwos? or is the DNA not theirs’ even if it is in them?), they use the DNA with and create a human form for themselves which they could then bind to. Was this the point of the Flesh Eater concept? Or they could try “evolving” from Blade to something else using that internal DNA, a more natural shift not involving a standard Blade-Driver bond at all. Or perhaps they could make an identical clone of their present Driver, and somehow a transfer of connection from the undesirable original Blade to their pliable clone, wouldn’t trigger the memory reset (I doubt it though). Since the clone would have none of the memories of the original, and would essentially at creation be a newborn baby who needs to be cared for and learn everything, the Blade could easily manipulate the clone into subservience. Again the cyrostasis idea would be viable for Blade dominance over the Driver- the Driver would be asleep in a form of imprisonment that once they’re in, they can’t escape, while still being alive and better yet, preserved for thousands of years to come.

 

…And now I’ve seen the Torna Womb scene (all of the above was typed before I saw it). Blades becoming Titans and making more Blades. Well that explains the one question I had concerning the quantity of Titans- they are infinite and can spawn more, albeit only very slowly I would think, and judging from Azurda, they rarely even then can achieve continental size. So they’re still a major loss if a giant one dies, even if in the very very long term they’re replaceable. 

The Titan evolution also frees a Blade from the Driver shackle for good, but they still get memory wiped. If they could overcome that, then they could truly rage against the world absolutely unrestrained and unstoppable. Or they don’t even need that, if they could retain just their angry will through the rebirth process, they could become basically FE’s Grima, except bigger. I can see Malos doing this, and or creating a new world.

 

And as for how my journey has gone, nearly to the end.:

Spoiler

I’ve gone up to the Torna Womb scene. My next prior is completing all the sidequests due to your prior suggestion @Armagon, the game also seems to drop a hint that I should. Haven’t done the knighting scene yet, and after that I’d hazard it’s one quick yes or no question and it’s off to the final battle. I’m missing two locations (and one secret area), despite having all the landmarks found. I assume I just missed something and that the final battle doesn’t count as a location- since that’d make the skill behind the lock quite useless.

The Torna king looks cool, why do they need the evil uncle though? I’m fine with Addam being illegitimate, but for a game so short, why throw in the archetypal bitter, incompetent throne rival? At least Lora’s personal enemy could reappear in the main game as this Blade Eater thing.

I was prepared for chaos in the capital before speaking to the guard at the castle gates, despite dying once to a Gargoyle, Malos didn’t KO out everyone a single time, quite the surprise. He is smug, but in a good way for a villain. He is Light elemental- that I did not expect, I thought he and Mythra would be opposites. Although to be fair, violet is as much light as is green and white. 

I did notice the names of his attacks, which is a good thing since XCX’s name labels for enemy attacks were too small and unnoticeable from what I remember. I recall hearing, how despite developer statements to the contrary, this game wasn’t connected to XC1, and I recall Armagon mentioning in the SSBU topic that somebody in XC2 used a Monado, so I was less surprised, and more entertained in a way. Seeing all of Shulk’s techniques flipped against me was interesting; the only time I ever fought Zanza was when I was severely overleveled b/c optional stuff, so he was no fun. But does this mean Mythra is also packing an unnamed Monado in her big green photon saber as an Aegis? Or is it an uneven split of power? -Not looking for an answer to this.

More annoying was that I decided to give the XCX soundtrack a try again (Wir Fliegen became likable when I realized it was German and not English; Black Tar I still don’t care for at all, and it’s worse when I don’t have my fighters shouting over the lyrics). And reading comments for the songs on Youtube for fun, somebody mentioned the patron saint of archers and brewers is in XC2 (to not say their name directly or make it too obvious who I mean). Egh! I’m not reading comments anymore for something like this. Oh well…. Now I’m guessing he is this “Architect” god, if he made Aegis and gave them Monado. If he resides in the World Tree, since that is where Amalthus received the Aegis, then does that mean the tree is a human invention? -Even knowing a name, I still don’t know the circumstances around it, that can produce plenty of entertainment and drama. One can know the end, and one typically expects how the end is going to work in most games- ultimately happily ever after, but the journey is still worth taking.

 

And some other stuff:

Spoiler

To speak of something else, Lora’s age. 27? When I first read in the game she and Jin met 17 years ago, I was wondering how old she could have been in those flashbacks, she certainly looked at first to be older than like 4, which I would have assumed had to be the case, since this is Japanese popular entertainment, where protags are supposed to be no older than like 21 at most. Although being more precise, I loosely interpret ages 17 = the standard, 19-18 are the older standard deviations, 16-15 are the younger standard deviations.  20-25 is mature and “adult”, but not old. 26-29 is getting old, and 30+ is OLD!. 14 and below are unusually young/kids. 

Don’t get me wrong, I actually like Lora’s age! A person’s appearances, or so I think at least, admittedly I haven’t done a detailed check for this assertion, don’t really change that much between the late teens and the late 20s. Nor do I necessarily see too much of change in aspirations, sure the 20s are less idealistic than the late teens, but they’ve still potentials not being fully realized, college with an MA can go on to like 25 (longer for med students no doubt), and even once you have it, you certainly still haven’t realized your workplace aspirations yet. So Japan can go ahead and expand the age range a bit, whilst still being able to keep a lot of the usual character tropes.

And I’ll say I like Lora’s personality, fighting style, and appearance as well. Zilch fanservice, all practical, confident, no damsel moments; and are those shoulderplates of East Asian design?

 

I’m not sure what the “golden” aspect of Torna describes though. Golden sands? There is a lot of desert. Farming? The lands don’t look particularly fertile at a first glance. Technology? Nothing truly great has been shown yet. Military might? Sounds like that is Mor Ardain’s deal. Societal bliss? Perhaps, going by what is said in Auresco of Blade and human harmony. …Wait! Auresco. “Aure/Aurum/Aurelis” is Latin for “gold”, Au on the periodic table represents gold. So it’s all in the capital. 

Although calling Torna “The Golden Kingdom” instead of “The Golden Country” would perhaps be for the descriptive better, given the name is all in the capital. “Country” to me is taking on shades of its rural adjectival meaning, of countryside, which does admittedly sound better to me than “Golden Kingdom”. Golden Kingdom can come off as a little too… strict? A little too covered in gold leaf and gold bars, but heartless beneath the metallic exterior. Of course, “golden” doesn’t have to be that way, a “heart of gold” is a “soft” use of the word; and through contrast with the word “empire”, “kingdom” can become a humbler, gentle word. A big expansionary empire can make a kingdom seem little, modest, and tightly knit by comparison.

 

In the main game, Mor Ardain is an enemy right? When I heard something about muting very vocal enemy soldiers via an update, I thought I read the soldiers were Ardainian. The generic NPC soldiers don’t look heroic, and being militant certainly doesn’t equate to friendly oftentimes. Although I doubt they’re an enemy forever, only for a time before somebody defects or the realization of some shared interests come about. Still, Hugo, whose hair at moments I’ve mistaken for a dark shade of blue (thanks FE!), I like him, and that Malos is being viewed as an international threat in need of cooperation to defeat, but assuming he isn’t by magic still alive in the main game, what was the point of including this friendly emperor, when he isn’t Tornan? Is a good Mor Ardain so lacking in the main game that merely having this guy around is enough to be cool/make some fans smile? Uraya sounds presently like it’d too be an antagonist nation, but there is nothing to say you can’t have two evil countries of fighting each other, besides hounding the heroes, and possibly being manipulated by a greater evil.

To go back the capital of Auresco, a Japanese design was unexpected. Yet there is nothing wrong with it, this is a fictional world where Japan doesn’t exist, in such a world, it is wholly feasible that European-looking people could make Japanese aesthetics. There is no immutable reason why Japan invented Japanese aesthetics IRL (ignoring resources available to them- Europe can’t make tatami mats without bamboo) and Europe did European. It just worked out that way IRL. Of course, it would not exactly surprise me if Japanese people felt Lora and Addam were Japanese, owing to anime, manga, and like popular entertainment making “white” people “Europanese” as I see it. Able to be both Japanese and European at the same time, to be familiar to Japan allowing for personal connections to be establish, and yet exotically foreign. When it comes to Japanese games aboard, one may be able to argue that Europanese makes the familiar, foreign, and the foreign, familiar, rather ironically.

 

Lastly, some gameplay comments and questions:

Spoiler

Gameplay-wise, I’m only now totally getting the elements. Water and Fire are opposites, Light and Dark, Earth and Lightning, and Wind and Ice, correct? The last pairing seems weird, but oh well! I’ve done only a single Full Burst, as deadly and cool as it was, they seem tricky to pull off. To make sure I’m not mistaken, I can’t stack multiple orbs of the same element? 

And having the QTEs set to automatic, in Torna or the main game, won’t present any hindrances, will they? Besides losing a little face of course.

I currently have them set to manual, because they add interactivity to battles and it seems cheap to go automatic. I’ve rarely risked going for an “excellent”, I’ve generally stuck to “goods”, I am getting better though. And I’m thinking that for the most difficult of fights I might set things to automatic, since a number of my failed QTEs (thankfully they only seem to boost damage in this game as opposed to stopping the attack outright a certain point) it seems have come from the fragile wireless connection between the Switch and the Joycons being broken. Even having one of my legs crossed in front of the Joycons can block the signal.

 

I’ve noticed enemy icons are no longer color coded for level. And I try not to pick fights high above my level, but does the old level advantage making higher leveled enemies impossible to fight (without heavy preparations) remain? 

I say this because for Mythra I was trying to kill two of the snakes in the desert. IIRC, my teams were 33-34, and the first snake I slew was 38, it went down sans difficulty. But then I got to kill more snakes, at level 40, and they dealt over 2000 damage to everyone with their AoE tail attack or something. Did I just luck out and not get whiplashed by the first serpent, or did the couple extra levels on the snake result in me getting destroyed by a level curve?

A shift to big damage from the foe instead of you going “miss miss miss” sounds better than XC1 though. And unique monsters (why not reuse the XCX label of “Tyrant”? It is shorter and sounds a little cool.) like in XC1 I concluded after fighting one have significantly greater HP vis a vis standard enemies of their level. I don’t mind, they don’t feel bloated, and increasing HP reserves on standard enemies would be a questionable move given their quantity.

 

Another question, do Blade chips, when they show they boost auto-attack damage, boost Arts and Specials damage as well? Or is it strictly auto-attacks? I admittedly haven’t upgraded my weapons in a while, mostly so enemies can live longer and I’ll have more chances of Blade Comboing them to help fill in the Affinity Charts.

 

One little modification I would like- if when crafting something, provided I have access to its location, I could read the little blurb on materials I have zero presently of. Given their benefits, I’ve been trying to make all of Hugo’s and Addam’s items, and have found most of them so far, but this “Geometric Gear” is evading me. I wish I knew where to look.

Another small change- make the various types of gathering points have different icons! Not really needed with how frequent they are, but it’d make mapping the points worthwhile instead of uselessly overwhelming.

On the plus side, I’ll say I do like the field skills, a small creative evolution from XCX. That game had three field skills as well, but they almost entirely did nothing but unlock “chests”- be they White Whale remnants, xeno tech, or indigen dung. The one exception being for the Mechanical skill, which was also necessary for laying probes at the various Frontier Nav sites- rather important. Although they aren’t interactive or complex or anything, I do like the greater variety in effect that field skills have in this game. Probably my favorite little instance was the water purification, and the sequence of Jin’s Swordplay to make a tree into a bridge, and then two uses of Aegaeon’s Command Water, once to fill a lake to be able to reach a geyser, which you then shoot yourself up.

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18 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

He is Light elemental- that I did not expect, I thought he and Mythra would be opposites. Although to be fair, violet is as much light as is green and white. 

Actually Malos is Dark elemental; his health bar shows the Light icon because it's his weakness, so he and Mythra are opposites. The icon shown on each enemy's health bar is to show you the element they're weak to, not the element they possess: the elemental pairs being Fire/Water, Wind/Ice, Earth/Electric, and Light/Dark. A Fire elemental enemy will have the Water icon on their health bar, and so on.

Most of your plot related thoughts and questions will be answered once you get to the main game, so you needn't worry about that.

Edited by Lightchao42
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3 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

And having the QTEs set to automatic, in Torna or the main game, won’t present any hindrances, will they?

Uh, they are a little bit weaker but other than that, there isn't any difference. You generally want to aim for the "excellents" since that's when the Specials hit the strongest. In the main game, once you unlock Salvaging, the same rule applies. Get an excellent and your loot is bound to be better.

3 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

I’ve noticed enemy icons are no longer color coded for level. And I try not to pick fights high above my level, but does the old level advantage making higher leveled enemies impossible to fight (without heavy preparations) remain? 

Nah, they got rid of that, thank God. That was easily the worst part of XC1. I think there are some level bonuses but nothing too crazy. It's because of this that the Superbosses in main game XC2 are the best in the series. They are challenging but you're not forced to grind for rarer than rare materials to even stand a chance. Torna's Superbosses were almost as good but they have this thing called Elemental Awakening, which is basically Enrage on steroids (and also counted as a separate buff, meaning EA and Enrage can be active at the same time). Unlike Enrage, which activates at half health, Elemental Awakening activates after a Special is preformed.....but only sometimes. It's super inconsistent and it's the worst part of Torna's battle system. It's inconsistency reminds me of enemy Boosting in Xenosaga and how they could do it whenever the fuck they felt like, even in the middle of your turn, even if you haven't even selected an option yet.

Elemental Awakening is also in the main game but only in the Challenge Mode DLC (which isn't a difficulty mode btw, it's just a wide variety of special challenges). But in that case, you have Shulk to deal with it since his Lv.1 Special was exclusively made to deal with Elemental Awakening. This is all DLC though, which, since you got Torna physically, it should've come with a download code to redeem the rest of the DLC. There's some really good stuff there, Xenoblade 2 honestly has the best DLC in recent Nintendo history. There's so much effort put into it and you can tell Monolith Soft had a lot of fun making it.

 

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Weaknesses work like this:

Fire beats water

Water beats fire

Ice beats wind

Wind beats ice

Earth beats Thunder

Thunder beats Earth 

Light beats dark

Dark beats light

Another thing the elemental combo paths are almost the exact same as the main game  (I can't think of any changes off the top of my head)

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I briefly glimpsed new guide on GFAQs and saw to complete the Community I need to fight some really super superbosses. How much if any grind and how much preparation would I need to defeat them?

Related to that question, does unlocking Mythra's Girls' Talk skill require that I fight the superbosses? Or does the Community have more than 88 members? And, although it suggests it is useless, does Girls' Talk do anything at all? In particular, anything affecting the ending? Please don't tell me "Girls' Talk" just trigger chats about bust sizes.

I'm just asking these questions, because while I'm going to fill out as much of the community as I reasonably can before I fight the final battle, I don't want to have to burn hours solely on being able to fight some overpowered enemy. I want to get things over with without excessive tedium filling my time beforehand.

 

Another little change I'd like to comment on- the removal of defense stats. Everyone has fixed damaged reduction percentages now instead of solid defense numbers, plus adjustable guard rates.

I've played RPGs without defensive stats before, so this isn't odd to me, and I consider it a progression within the Xenoblade franchise.

  1. XC1 had Def and Ether Def stats, and, IHRC, it was -1 damage per point of Def/Eth Def. Stripped of all armor, Def and Eth Def on everyone was 0 at all levels. Agility and dodgetanking was very useful too.
  2. XCX kept a Def stat, just one since there is no physical-ethereal divide there. Once again, I believe it was a 1-1 points to damage reduction ratio. Def was largely useless, since all attacks have an Attribute, and you'd reduce damage far more by retooling your armor according to whatever Attributes the enemies that were giving you trouble were using. Muster adequate resistances, and you could take as low as 1 damage per hit. You also had Reflect and Decoys for alternative or supplemental defenses. Dodgetanking was nerfed. 
  3. XC2: TtGC it seems has kept the idea of percentage-based defense, but significantly toned it down with what appears to be no ability to improve them. And from what I can also see, XC2 has made evasion more viable again.
Edited by Interdimensional Observer
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20 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

I briefly glimpsed new guide on GFAQs and saw to complete the Community I need to fight some really super superbosses. How much if any grind and how much preparation would I need to defeat them?

Uh, at most, you wanna be at the same level or just a few levels higher (the highest level enemy is a Lv.100 and the level cap is the same as in XC1 and 2). There's nothing insane like grinding for rare materials like in XC1 or X. What really makes them tough is the Elemental Awakening that i mentioned before. You can't even do Blade Combos on one of the Superbosses anyway, as it'll eat the Orbs and regain health.

To unlock these Superbosses, you have to find all of the slates and remove the seal in Aletta. At the end, you'll find the Nopon Halfsage and you can unlock the Superbosses from him (have lots of gold with you).

20 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Related to that question, does unlocking Mythra's Girls' Talk skill require that I fight the superbosses? Or does the Community have more than 88 members? And, although it suggests it is useless, does Girls' Talk do anything at all? In particular, anything affecting the ending? Please don't tell me "Girls' Talk" just trigger chats about bust sizes.

Nah, Girls' Talk does aboslutely nothing at all. In the main game, there's a Blade Quest that uses it and a few Rare Blades besides Mythra have that skill, but in Torna, it's just a small way of showing that Mythra is learning to be more social.

20 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

I'm just asking these questions, because while I'm going to fill out as much of the community as I reasonably can before I fight the final battle, I don't want to have to burn hours solely on being able to fight some overpowered enemy. I want to get things over with without excessive tedium filling my time beforehand.

If you don't want to fight the Superbosses but still want to do as much of the Community as you can, then i recommend just doing all of the sidequests. You know you've done them all when you complete a quest called Community Spirit, which will always be the last sidequest. After that, the remaining two NPCs are the monster lady and the Nopon Halfsage, the former joins when all of the Unique Monsters are slain while the latter joins when all of the Superbosses are slain (pressumably).

Btw, there are no missable sidequests in this game, a first for the series, so if you want to just fight the final boss once it lets you, you can do that.

Edited by Armagon
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7 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

I'm just asking these questions, because while I'm going to fill out as much of the community as I reasonably can before I fight the final battle, I don't want to have to burn hours solely on being able to fight some overpowered enemy. I want to get things over with without excessive tedium filling my time beforehand.

I agree with Armagon that you should try complete every sidequest, though the quest with the green barrels might give you some trouble if you don't use a guide. The final boss is level

Spoiler

50

in case you don't want your party to be too much higher than that when you reach the final battle.

Also, Skye Bennett will begin streaming Torna tomorrow, on Tuesdays and Thursdays at 8:00 BST. You can watch her streams on Twitch here if you are interested.

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On 10/15/2018 at 9:24 PM, Lightchao42 said:

I agree with Armagon that you should try complete every sidequest, though the quest with the green barrels might give you some trouble if you don't use a guide.

I was amazed that I got all the barrels without a guide. The last ones I smashed for Red Pollen Orbs were in Saint's Practice Grounds, behind the UM there. (I tried fighting that thing once, lost, came back a while later (no nearby Landmark makes losing bite if you don't save first) with few levels later and won, albeit not without some near losing moments. That big energy blast, so deadly.) Turns out there are extra green barrels even- you can miss a few and still complete it.

The last sidequest's ending was unexpected.

Spoiler

Addam has an unseen pregnant wife? Well good for him and the writing, this is unusual for a game. And here I was lowkey trying to get myself into him. Won't try to steal this one.

My one criticism of this is Mythra. I'm sorry, but I just couldn't quite get past her in her skimpy clothing with Addam all the time. What I had expected the entire game in line with the oh-so-expectable is that he and her would become romantic, not helped by Jin and Lora. 

I get that Addam and Mythra, much like his relationship to Minoth, is purely one of the task at hand, coworkers one must work closely with. But I would've liked just a statement from him earlier to the effect of "I'm not into her" or even "she's more of a sister". This wouldn't have been the case though had I actually see the second Stepan Inn scene first, where it is made clear somebody a gentle shounen in the future is her perfect husband partner.

And actually, this is something to be said for the three playable teams. Addam's is coworkers, Hugo has the theme of lord and lieges. And just as in gameplay where they are the mixed group, Team Lora has two themes- a sister figure in Haze, and a lover in Jin. I like this, because it means that despite being souls bound together, Blades and their Drivers don't have to be lovers, and Mythra-Addam bring this home. Good because MinothxAddam/Amalthus sounds ohhh *shudders*.

I don't mind Jin and Lora as a couple by the way, and I was fine with them musing about running an orphanage together. Great way to get past their inability to procreate together. Kinda leaves Haze out of the matter, but I'm sure she'd willingly go along with it. Shame it doesn't get to happen.

 

I also like that Jin wasn't the only Blade who was keeping a diary as a way of pseudo-memory carryover (I'll need to play the main game though to see why he burns everything at the end- hopefully a good reason and not just edgelord). Giving one to Brighid was a nice move. Of course falsifying diaries sounds like a great way to manipulate a Blade.

Missing one of the slates though, and 2 of the Unique Monsters.

 

On 10/15/2018 at 2:12 PM, Armagon said:

You can't even do Blade Combos on one of the Superbosses anyway, as it'll eat the Orbs and regain health.

Who thought that was a good idea? Without Specials, fights feel less intense, and will end up taking more time since they pack so much damage. There would've been better ways around this. Like I don't know, give them anti-orbs that require you use the opposite or same element to shatter them before you can apply your own to the baddie? Actually, maybe that'd be good with Elemental Awakening- dispel it via powerup orb smashing. Turns the Chain Attack into a technique for defense and not just offense.

 

Overall, I think the sidequests are good in this game. Maybe not extraordinary, but good as most mass sidequests can reasonably come in games. I liked the cooking contest, went with the cake- how does the tartare play out? Does Jin win also or does it go to the NPC girl?

As whole, the franchise has done well in the sidequest department. XC1 had issues mostly of changing NPC locations and times, EXP gain from sidequests easily giving you too many levels with that awful curve to kill the challenge, and tucking away the 4th and 5th skill trees behind high levels of regional affinity. Yet XC1 was still good, and XCX makes sidequests the crux of its good writing, it certainly was lacking in the main plot. Affinity Missions were a mixed bag, some highs, some lows.

 

One little annoyance with this game, remind me if I am wrong, but didn't XC1 give you 30 seconds if you got KO'ed for your allies to revive you before losing the fight? Or did XCX? I thought one or both of the games did. This game makes you lose if you don't have a minimum of 1 Party Gauge bar filled. And I don't think allies will resurrect the other non-player ally. I'm guessing this is because Mythra and Aegaeon need to be incapacitated/incapacitated allies to activate their Talent Arts.

 

 

And now after all that, I just want to say I finished the game! Comments in the spoilers:

Spoiler

First, the interior of the Torna Titan was of no surprise like the Bionis, but by toning down the light and using totally different enemies, it was distinctive enough.

 

The final battle, Xenogears vs. Alpha Weltall (or whatev' Gundams Takahashi was referencing, I thought I remember hearing was watching Unicorn during XCX's development). Malos's Siren never got an attack off, good for me! He wasn't too bad, although I was 56 levelwise. The mecha cinematics were good, flashy, time well spent using XCX to learn how to work in HD.

 

Ending- well it was a whole mix of emotions, now wasn't it? And so very long. 

Not fond of people, male or female, going insane by grief and or anger or people forcing them into some trance or a transformation. For girls, it has the extra stigma attached of the ancient stereotype that girls are more vulnerable /emotional/hysterical. Although perhaps it is good thing that I don't like it, since it is a good guy in severe distress. As an actual plot device? More questionable and less clear cut whether it is good or bad. Mythra might the person I'll miss the least though actually, not that I hate her, I just preferred the other 8 more I think. Doesn't help I know she'll have it good in the future.

 

Now sadness- well at least one of the kids had a purpose in existing, and then dying; Mikhail didn't have any purpose besides giving Other Kid (his name escape me at the moment) a partner. More RIP for Hugo though than anyone else, they did foreshadow things with that Vill Ethelmar NPC, but I hadn't seriously thought he was certain to die. Not to say I ruled out the possibility either.

So Torna sank, I thought before I even bought the game that Torna would sink, and I mistook the game's opening as foreshadowing this. Not sure where I got the idea from, I barely read anything about this game before buying it. The game was also foreshadowing this with the "in case we need to evacuate" bit. Tragic, and it keeps Torna out of the main game I guess and self-contained. Also made the Community stuff a bit more relevant.

 

Now for the evil stuff. Creepy describes Mr. Blade Eater, the head in mouth thing got me. And fighting him alone made his fight more of a risk of me losing than Malos was. It was clearly foreshadowed he would return, I just expected it'd be in the main game, not after the "final" battle. I also thought from the way he said "my arms" that Jin had severed both after the earlier encounter. He could've been handled much better- points off here.

And using every trick in the coup book, Amalthus seized power of the Church of Scientology. And then immediately unleashed mass production Blade Eaters on Lora- that was fast going from successful prototype to final product (not sure what happened to her and Haze). Malos was probably retrieved two minutes later, or will be however long from now the main game is. Nothing was said of Minoth- either went maverick inasmuch as he could, and or was scrapped by Amalthus, for good, to the junkyard, or forever, probably not the last I'd think.

Zettar lived. Off to have Addam drawn and quartered? Or Addam lives but some public dispute or secret struggle endures that lingers into the main game hundreds of years later? Wonder if Hugo's death before reproducing also starts a power vacuum, the effects of which linger hundreds of years later?

Jin's crystal turned red- guess he is off to help the villains for the next couple hundred years until he finally set everything right. Or maybe he found a self-sustaining existence as a Flesh Eater or something and no longer needs Lora to be alive? Minoth's comments that Jin should give some thought to becoming one after a particular sidequest would be foreshadowing? Doubt that thought, since it wouldn't explain why he had to burn everything- he is clearly going to lose his memories again.

 

The light- Mythra had visions of Rex, using her Foresight for once in TtGC. Not sure where Pyrrha came from and why she was with Addam. But my guess is that she emerged as the residue of Mythra- what remained after the emotional and power breakdown. A separate person outright, but who did not exist prior to the trauma, probably not actually weaker than her though for the sake of the main game. The title screen even changes to reflect on the ending and the future hope.

For me not having played the main game though, the ending was more sad than hopeful. On the plus side, for those who had played this second, they're stuck on this sad note, even if they know the future happiness. I will end on the happy note having played this first.

 

...And that is about it. I spent ~35 hours with the game. It was very good, certainly the best DLC gameplay ever offered by 14.8 trillion lightyears. Nearly large enough to be its own independent game, but I do think that narratively, it is just a little too lacking for that. This was no lousy moneymaker DLC, that was a labor of love with heart and soul in it indeed, justifying by itself the $40 cost, never mind whatever main game bonuses I got from the season pass (and I will delight in having Elma- although I doubt whatever gives her will be battle-free and be devoid of me having to reach at least the midgame to tackle level-wise first, if not access in the first place). The gameplay was very solid, the soundtrack good, the world up to the series's standards, the plot worked, the characters were likable. I don't like to give number ratings, but a good game, no regrets at all about this buy. 

I look forward to the main game, but if I don't want to fail college in my last semester, that I can't touch until mid-late December. Playing this was... bad enough I think. I've no more leeway for a JRPG at this moment. That and spending a few months apart from this game is a good thing, give me a breather from its gameplay and world, let me rest, and maybe spend it elsewhere even when I have a moment again- Octopath Traveler, SMT: Strange Journey, or my years-old download of FFIX I'm thinking presently.

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I actually quite want to see Mythra spending time with.....

Spoiler

Addam's wife. Since Addam is kind of her dad his wife could try to either spoil Mythra or try to discipline their bratty teenage daughter. 

Oh and if anyone was looking forward to a Xenoblade X port for Switch it doesn't seem to be in the cards for now, which is a shame

 

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3 minutes ago, Etrurian emperor said:

I actually quite want to see Mythra spending time with.....

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Addam's wife. Since Addam is kind of her dad his wife could try to either spoil Mythra or try to discipline their bratty teenage daughter. 

Oh and if anyone was looking forward to a Xenoblade X port for Switch it doesn't seem to be in the cards for now, which is a shame

 

Shame. X is probably the most beautifully designed world in my opinion. 

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