Is FE 7's story really that bad?

[Spectraman]

19 hours ago, Slumber said:

It took me a second to realize because you mean that Veld and Raydrik are mostly just interested in controlling and lording over Manster. Because the stakes are relatively high in T776 for the story it's telling. Certainly more so than Lyn mode. 

 

Does Ghast hate the story or the game play? Because game play gripes are understandable. Story wise, while Ghast is known for analyzing supports, he misses the mark on stories often. He likes more character-driven stuff as opposed to stories that are more cohesive and rounded, hence why he really likes the Hector/Eliwood story of FE7 and the Lyon/Eirika/Ephraim stuff of FE8, even though neither have particularly strong narratives(I'd say FE8's story is straight up bad, honestly). Not that FE7's is bad, it's just not great outside of the Hector/Eliwood stuff. It's a pretty safe FE story with a villain who doesn't really make any sense. 

True, I mean I really like FE 8's story only because I am okay with a little bit of cartoony elements, but I completely understand why people hate FE 8's story. I mean after seeing how trash the Archanea story(not Awakening i mean FE11 and FE12) was I thought FE 8 was amazing.

Edited September 26, 2017 by Spectraman

[Paper Jam]

I don't hear very many complaints about FE7's story, or the story of any FE, probably because those who dislike it can easily skip it.

Well, for the most part. The forced moves in LNM are harder to skip (and some of the most disliked aspects of FE7's story as far as I know, which I'm sure is not a coincidence).

[Chconroy]

I've always enjoyed the structure of Blazing Blade's story. Most games are set amongst some large war between countries (in the context of Elibe, Binding Blade fills the quota), but Blazing Blade is set before the large war several years later. While some people dislike Lyn's story, the short length makes it feel focused on the character and her struggle, while the main story kept me guessing. We start out looking for Eliwood's dad, then Santaruz is acting suspicious, we learn about a man named Ephidel, then the revelation of Darin working with him and plotting a civil war against Ostia. They chase him away, bringing Lyn back into the story, and then they go to Valor and meet Nergal. The main story always felt like it was appropriately raising the stakes as you kept going and it kept me invested, curious for what was going to happen next.

I wouldn't call it perfect (some details are vague and you don't learn Nergal's motivation/backstory until a playthrough with Hector while fulfilling very obscure requires) and it's not my favorite story in the series (Path of Radiance, if only for the world development), but I wouldn't call it bad.

[Reality]

I haven't heard nearly as many people say FE7's story was bad  FE6 on the other hand

It's uneven, but I kind of like it, there are a couple stand out moments : the death of Hector's spy , EliwoodShinji doubting himself, the zephiel related charathers in Bern (even though I hate how these charathers were used in FE6), and Sophia's realization before death that she isn't a real human. 

Hector  is pretty enjoyable- He's treated like dumb brute up to about Chapter 18, but that aspect of him is limited to teasing in the latter half of the story. proving that Lyn is an awful charather totally incapable of moving on  Early on his differences from the moral paragon Eliwood are pretty interesting- Eliwood is almost shocked that Hector employs theives and spies, and  it will be Hector who comes up with the idea of going to pirates. Hector actually creates some tension with Jaffar (which i wish was followed up on). In the later half of the story, he gets fleshed out a bit by his relation to his brother Uther- Hector has the utmost respect for him and its mostly through Hector that the delicate situation of him keeping up appearances is what is keeping the Lycian league from being preyed on when some of its marquess fight among themselves. 

Eliwood himself is actually a very enjoyable lord- He is kind of moral paragon, but even though he's written very straight, I couldn't help but find him endearing. I liked that his ability to forgive others could cause limited conflict (mostly with Hector) because of how different he say the world. In the later half of the story finally being accepted by the heaven seal after initially insisting that he was no great hero is earned after what he's been through. 

Some people complain about Nergal having the chance to kill the heroes but not using it multiple times, but in fairness- the first time he is crippled by Elbert which he doesn't seem to heal from until after consuming (Chapter Four Fanged Offense linus or lloyd). The second time he gets what he wants in Nina. And the third time I feel like he has a kind of condescending affection for Athos + he gets what he wants again. I think it's actually refreshing for him to personally taunt the heroes anyway, since standard FE villains have committed such big crimes (and so far in the past) that you only ever feel the heroes personal anger at them in a somewhat abstract way. 

There isn't really much  talk about the mythology/quintessance- Some people question how Nergal had enough left over for making Morphs when he needed it for Dragons- My assumption is that actually calling Dragons wasn't a problem for Nergal (Hence calling Ninian and Nils originally) . It was only the process of controlling them that required the reserves of energy. Also the hidden city of Arcaida in Athos/Nergals backstory is kind of an interesting idea, although kind of a throwback to similiar idea with the earth dragons in Arachnea. 

Personally I think a lot of the FE6 setup hamstrings the quality of FE7 but in a few places it's actually cool : I like that when Hector and Eliwood get Urvan/Durandal, there is kind of a hint of a curse or fatal destiny is in store for those that wield them.  

FE7 is somewhat low on the list of FE games that I like, but if one thing that elevates the game for me it would be how the father/son and mentor/son figure relationships in this game are handled, esppecially with eliwood/Elbert and hector/uther, the latter being especially amazing since it's established with Uther mostly offscreen! In other FE games filial loyalty is either mishandled (Fates) or kind of hurt by the parent figure being at such a distance or achieving folk hero status to EVERYONE, not just the son himself (Leaf virtually respects Sigurd equally as much as Celice does, Greil for Titania/Oscar/Boyd as much as Ike, etc). Similiarly the way other FE handles Mentorship (or brrotherly relationshis) is pretty often dumbed down to the level of LOL Training! It isn't as rare as good parental relationships, but that still means that when I see how it's handled in FE7- with the characters palpably respecting each other, I can still approve of it. 

[kaiban]

i think it was passable enough to keep young me interested, and the gameplay and supports are what kept me coming back as a tyke playing the crap out of this gameboy game lol it isn't the greatest story ever, but I like it better than Sacred Stones' story. I don't know why, I just didn't care for Sacred Stones' story, I guess. For Blazing Sword though, there are a lot of moments and chracter interactions that worked well for me, like Uther and Hector - side note: I HATED how Sonia treated Nino, but it helped get me more invested in the game - and Matthew's story...huh...seems I am partial to Ostians lol

[Flee Fleet!]

I personally found the story boring until chapter 18, after which I got motivated enough to play it. 

um, yeah, that's it. 

Edited September 28, 2017 by Flee Fleet!

[Tuvy2]

On 9/24/2017 at 4:04 PM, Anacybele said:

The story made me drop the game entirely. So yeah, I say the story and characters are that bad. Most of it feels so generic and boring to me. The gameplay wasn't entirely that great to me either, I found it meh. But in all fairness, I DID play Tellius and even SS before FE7, so I might've been spoiled too much of those games there.

You are saying you liked the stories of those games and the characters of those games more than the ones in FE7? I get liking sacred stones's characters more but liking PoR's characters more is outrageous. None of them have that much character that is thrown at you as soon as you meet them, in FE7 you quickly learn that Lyn is kind and caring, as well as vengeful for her parents death. Ike is very similar to these things, minus the kind and caring part. I'm not defending Lyn is is at best an okay character, but to say you dropped FE7 for the plot and character and not PoR is ridiculous, because the exact crap is thrown in your face in PoR. The main character is vengeful, he drags people in to it, joins an all out war, meets a lord, saves the day, and rides off into the sunset. That's is the entire plot of the FIRST section on FE7 and the ENTIRE game of PoR

 

Edited September 28, 2017 by Tuvy2
I misspelled and meant to say more.

[Anacybele]

43 minutes ago, Tuvy2 said:

You are saying you liked the stories of those games and the characters of those games more than the ones in FE7? I get liking sacred stones's characters more but liking PoR's characters more is outrageous. None of them have that much character that is thrown at you as soon as you meet them, in FE7 you quickly learn that Lyn is kind and caring, as well as vengeful for her parents death. Ike is very similar to these things, minus the kind and caring part. I'm not defending Lyn is is at best an okay character, but to say you dropped FE7 for the plot and character and not PoR is ridiculous, because the exact crap is thrown in your face in PoR. The main character is vengeful, he drags people in to it, joins an all out war, meets a lord, saves the day, and rides off into the sunset. That's is the entire plot of the FIRST section on FE7 and the ENTIRE game of PoR

Excuse me, I can like PoR's story more if I damn well please. Also, its story is much deeper than what you made it out to be. It isn't just about Ike beating the Black Knight or helping Elincia to save Crimea. Those are the most major parts, but it was also about stopping a continent-wide war from breaking out, fighting against slavery and racism, and more. PoR (and RD to a bit of a lesser extent) is pretty much the only game in the series that deals with a bunch of real world issues here. Like I said, racism, slavery, some oppression of the lower class by the upper classes, bad/corrupt government officials, etc. Tellius also has the most spectacular world-building I've seen in any game I've played. Its timeline is extensive and well thought out and detailed and everything. It even goes back to the creation of the land itself, I believe.

Edited September 28, 2017 by Anacybele

[Tuvy]

1 minute ago, Anacybele said:

Excuse me, I can like PoR's story more if I damn well please. Also, its story is much deeper than what you made it out to be. It isn't just about Ike beating the Black Knight or helping Elincia to save Crimea. Those are the most major parts, but it was also about stopping a continent-wide war from breaking out, fighting against slavery and racism, and more. PoR (and RD to a bit of a lesser extent) is pretty much the only game in the series that deals with a bunch of real world issues here. Like I said, racism, slavery, some oppression of the lower class by the upper classes, corrupt government officials, etc. Tellius also has the most spectacular world-building I've seen in any game I've played. Its timeline is extensive and well thought out and detailed and everything. It even goes back to the creation of the land itself, I believe.

Sorry to intrude but....

Gietz and Fiora/B Supports

Fiora: Oh, wait up! Geitz, please!

Geitz: You again. If you’ve brought more thanks, tell it to my fath—that frozen old man. I’d not waste your breath on that abusive monster.

Fiora: You hate your father, don’t you? Why? He was such a good man.

Geitz: ...... Have you ever heard of a boat called a galley?

Fiora: No, I haven’t.

Geitz: Most boats use wind power to sail, right? You can move quickly with the wind, but you can’t move against it. Well, a galley is a boat moved by people rowing oars. It’s good for keeping a shipping schedule regardless of the wind.

Fiora: And that’s...

Geitz: Yes, my father used his profits to hire many rowers. They spent their days in the stifling hold of the ship, slaving like beasts. When they collapsed with exhaustion, my father just tossed them overboard.

Fiora: ......

Geitz: As a child, I loved riding on my father’s boat. I respected my father, whom everyone called master. But one day, I ventured into the hold of the ship. I saw those broken men rowing, like lost souls in hell. I saw...children...who were my age...

Fiora: ......

Geitz: I felt as if I were responsible... The boat in which I was riding... devoured children’s souls. I realized this, and the thought almost killed me...

Fiora: ......

Geitz: After that...I have had no love for my father...

[The Lord Of Gems]

I think FE7 has a good story, but it's not as good as Genealogy of The Holy War. I say that it's on the same level as Path Of Radiance and Radiant Dawn.

(Please don't kill me for voicing my opinions.)

[Anacybele]

1 minute ago, Tuvy said:

Sorry to intrude but....

Gietz and Fiora/B Supports

Fiora: Oh, wait up! Geitz, please!

Geitz: You again. If you’ve brought more thanks, tell it to my fath—that frozen old man. I’d not waste your breath on that abusive monster.

Fiora: You hate your father, don’t you? Why? He was such a good man.

Geitz: ...... Have you ever heard of a boat called a galley?

Fiora: No, I haven’t.

Geitz: Most boats use wind power to sail, right? You can move quickly with the wind, but you can’t move against it. Well, a galley is a boat moved by people rowing oars. It’s good for keeping a shipping schedule regardless of the wind.

Fiora: And that’s...

Geitz: Yes, my father used his profits to hire many rowers. They spent their days in the stifling hold of the ship, slaving like beasts. When they collapsed with exhaustion, my father just tossed them overboard.

Fiora: ......

Geitz: As a child, I loved riding on my father’s boat. I respected my father, whom everyone called master. But one day, I ventured into the hold of the ship. I saw those broken men rowing, like lost souls in hell. I saw...children...who were my age...

Fiora: ......

Geitz: I felt as if I were responsible... The boat in which I was riding... devoured children’s souls. I realized this, and the thought almost killed me...

Fiora: ......

Geitz: After that...I have had no love for my father...

One support conversation =/= the actual story.

[Tuvy]

Just now, Anacybele said:

One support conversation =/= the actual story.

Yeah. I understand. I just was pointing out that FE9 and 10 is not the only game that talks about slavery.

I didn't mean to be rude.

[Anacybele]

Just now, Tuvy said:

Yeah. I understand. I just was pointing out that FE9 and 10 is not the only game that talks about slavery.

I didn't mean to be rude.

They're the only games whose story involve it though, that's what I'm saying.

[The Lord Of Gems]

@Anacybele As for racism, does the prejudice against Loptyr's bloodline count as racism? They literally hunted them down and burned them at the stake.

Also, can we just agree that Awakening/Fates had the worse story?

Edited September 28, 2017 by Noble Of Pherae

[Thane]

I've got several major issues with the plot, most of them stemming from Nergal and the Black Fang's utter incompetence, but I think more pressing than that is the fact that I don't really care about anyone in the cast. That's not to say I dislike every single one of them, most certainly not, it's just that I rarely feel more than ambivalence towards the characters. Lyn gets quickly forgotten about and her revenge plot is dropped in an A support, Eliwood feels too cookie cutter aside from a sweet friendship with Hector, and Ninian doesn't really do much. Hector is alright but I was never as charmed by him as many others.

The minor characters, however, fare much worse than in the other games in the series I've played. I just looked over the roster and I had completely forgotten who Wil was, and before the Hero Gauntlet in Heroes I had forgotten who Priscilla was. I cannot take Jaffar, Karel or Raven seriously, and the same goes for Nino's subplot. I wouldn't be able to tell you a single thing about Kent, Dart or Erk. Sain makes me want to jump through the screen and strangle him. Florina and Lowen feel like the worst of the 3DS characters in terms of gimmicks and animoo.

With no character really sticking out, I just don't feel an emotional connection to anything that's going on in the game. If the story itself had been great, then I could've accepted that, but the villains guarantee it's not. As a final thing completely pulling me out of my immersion, sometimes the main characters turn to look at me - not some self-insert, me - and I'm always freaked out when they do this and reminded that I'm in fact playing a game.

[Anacybele]

29 minutes ago, Noble Of Pherae said:

Also, can we just agree that Awakening/Fates had the worse story?

We can definitely agree on this, yeah. :P

[Shadow Mir]

37 minutes ago, Noble Of Pherae said:

Also, can we just agree that Awakening/Fates had the worse story?

I'd disagree, because Sacred Stones and Sword of Seals exist.

[Kazuya]

I wouldn't say the plot and story is necessarily bad, it's just basic which is fine. FE 6 is also like this, but it's plot is just dumb beyond belief. 

[Dandy Druid]

It's a rather "safe" plot. Features a lot of "typical" fantasy elements, i.e. noble youth saves and falls in love with girl of an unknown origin (Eliwood x Ninian). Meanwhile, you have to deal with this shady organization that is somehow connected to said girl. Also features plot elements like "secret royalty" and such. It's by no means a bad story IMO, but it doesn't take too many risks (like FE4) nor does it tie and connect everything well (FE9).

Biggest problems is that it doesn't explain why some particular battles are even fought, Lyn's relevancy in the story, and the ending. Lyn started out as our protagonist, but in reality, she was merely a tutorial, and her significance in regards to her story involvement dramatically decreased. In Japanese version, her part of the story is cut out after you beat it. If it's skippable, why is it in? Plus Caelin is pretty much forgotten about too. As for the ending,

Spoiler

Why does the dragon come out? Couldn't we just have ONE game where it doesn't end by defeating some sort of powerful entity? The fire dragon really comes out of nowhere.

 

[DragonLord]

6 hours ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

I'd disagree, because Sacred Stones and Sword of Seals exist.

I mean Sword of Seals isn't really all that bad in the way something like Fates was bad. FE6 was a story that didn't do anything special, but also didn't do anything horribly either. 

[Shadow Mir]

5 minutes ago, DragonLord said:

I mean Sword of Seals isn't really all that bad in the way something like Fates was bad. FE6 was a story that didn't do anything special, but also didn't do anything horribly either. 

What really kills Sword of Seals' story for me is the fact that it's literally a retread of another game's story. That just doesn't sit well with me fsr.

Edited September 29, 2017 by Levant Mir Celestia

[Dark Holy Elf]

Zephiel is an order of magnitude more interesting than Hardin, and that goes a long way to making Binding Blade not bottom-tier for story in the series. For all that I'll agree it doesn't have much else. World-building is kinda okay?

I don't see the problem with Sacred Stones' story at all, it always felt to me like the most complete game of the GBA games narratively, mostly owing to the Eirika/Ephraim/Lyon emotional core of the game being solid.

FE7's story problems mostly stem from the Black Fang being a terrible and unbelievable antagonist force, Nergal somehow being even worse on both fronts, and the playable of the cast not really being anything special. I have a somewhat higher view of the supporting cast than Thane does (I think Matthew is solidly done for instance) but he doesn't make up for how Ninian is a walking plot device or the fact that the main lords are rather dull and two of them don't have much stake in the story (people bring up Lyn all the time for this, but Hector's not really much better). I think the political intrigue of the game had promise (Ephidel/Darin, Bern) but once it's a thousand-man band of assassins, zombies, and an evil-for-the-sake-of-it sorcerer, the game feels hollow.

[Interdimensional Observer]

9 hours ago, Thane said:

I wouldn't be able to tell you a single thing about Kent, Dart or Erk.

Kent has implied premarital sex with Fiora (how often does that happen in FE?) and isn't exactly a gentleman knight by the end of Lyn support. Erk's was sort of sweet with Louise, and his Pent does add a tiny bit of magic lore. As for Raven, yeah he is very edgy and is lack of a Hector support is odd, but the Lucius and Rebecca supports were pretty good. As for Karel, he's the Sword Demon, it's supposed to be radical contrast with his saintly old FE6 self. Matthew as Dark Holy Elf says was a fine guy too. I'd consider Canas and Pent noteworthy the same (just don't bring up CanasxVaida or Bartre).

I will concur Wil is lacking, Lowen is a gimmick, Ninian is a cliched plot gimmick (I like Nils though), Priscilla is very fair but very dull, and Florina is awful with Hector. Jaffar being an Angel of Death since he was a baby is extremely unrealistic and overdone, on top of him lacking for being so stoic (or should I say elliptical?). You forgot Harken for the dull category, which is sad since he is so strong.

Though I do agree with you on the stupidity of Nergal and the incompetence of the Black Fang wholeheartedly.

[Harvey]

I should also point out that since this is the prequel of FE6, the story does not really flesh out Zephiel that much. After the ending, all you get is a grown up version of him and...that's really it.

Of course, it would just end up being the same thing as what Gunivere explained in FE6 but since this happened, players now have to get their hands on FE6 to fully figure out what went wrong with Zephiel. Not a real deal breaker though...just saying.

 

[Thane]

3 hours ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

he doesn't make up for how Ninian is a walking plot device

It's weird how Fire Emblem has two teal-haired mysterious dancers who serve as exposition bots and plot devices. I mean Azura's track record is far worse than Ninian's, but still, it seems as though Intelligent Systems have a very specific taste here.