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Guest Dreamyboi

Been following this thread for a while now (only recently decided to make an account) and honestly it's infuriating we STILL don't actually have anything real to talk about yet, honestly though I think we're all just going to be let down by the actual product when it FINALLY shows up anyway. IntSys is just going to turn to the easily pleased crowd that only cares for self inserts, annoying archetypes and ham fisted writing. Followed by FE Youtubers voicing their disappointment, followed by fandom war expect to see the word "elitist" a lot, followed by non FE fans being turned off from the series, followed by FE Youtuber videos called "how to fix FE Switch", and then those of us who haven't given up by that point will wait patiently for the next one or play an FE game we actually like via emulator.

Yes, yes I know I'm being real damn negative but let's face it, even Echoes had it's fair share of problems that fans can fix by putting thought into it in minutes and that story's basic plot was written over a decade ago. For example BlazingKnight's ideas in his "how to fix Fates" video were (and I mean no offense to him when I say this) no brainers.

"Give each country flaws along with their merit"

"Don't make Garon/Mikoto one dimensional"

"Have some actual worldbuilding"

"Make the choice matter"

This is basic shit a competent writer wouldn't have trouble thinking of when coming up with the concept for this plot, but the writers for Fates ignored those while trying to make it more than what it needed to be and we got the triple-decker trainwreck we have today.

"He was possessed by another, bigger lame villain that was responsible for everything the whole time guys GASP. Let's kill him with the power of teamwork even though we just saw him summon a fucking wormhole."

I'm not saying you guys need to be as jaded as I am at this point or anything, but I will say that it's probably best to keep expectations low when it comes to writing because I don't see improvement coming anytime soon. IntSys is in a place where low effort pandering can rake them in more money and considering the series history with sales there's no reason for them not to take the cheap and easy route, and you can expect Mary Sue Emblem to return because of that.

Maybe I'm just mad we haven't seen anything yet though, that's probably it.

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Guest Dreamyboi

But you know what, I think I'll actually add something.

What I'd like to see personally is a more interesting protagonist, one who has more thought and nuance than "I just wanna help people" and maybe outgrows a serious character flaw along the way.

That way there's actually something to talk about with them y'know? It's why I like Ike (even though he's a bit on the basic side too)

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42 minutes ago, Dreamyboi said:

What I'd like to see personally is a more interesting protagonist, one who has more thought and nuance than "I just wanna help people" and maybe outgrows a serious character flaw along the way.

That way there's actually something to talk about with them y'know? It's why I like Ike (even though he's a bit on the basic side too)

I've been pointing this out a lot lately, since ideas of a new Lord have had a lot of people stating their wants, but this is Leif to a t.

He's a good guy, but he primarily wants to liberate his homeland. Helping people is essentially secondary, and he does it if he can. As the story progresses, he quickly shifts his focus to revenge. Now he wants to get rid of Raydrik, and the fact that Raydrik controls Manster is pretty much just a happy coincidence. And Leif makes no attempts to dance around what this means, as he explicitly states his desire to murder Raydrik throughout the game. 

He also fucks up multiple times in the game, and a large portion of the game is his advisors trying to get Leif to grow up and become a person who is actually worthy of what Leif is trying to do. Leif is emotional, he gets angry, he's impatient and rash, he's often overconfident/underestimates the Thracian armies, and this leads to:

- Him getting captured and his mother figure getting caught and turned to stone after they're separated

- Him constantly being on the run and only scraping by because there are enough people still loyal to Leif's family and enough deserters/dissenters in Thracia who would help liberate it

- Him often losing several key places that he works hard to capture, but can't keep because he's weak and underprepared(IE Tahra) 

- He loses an advisor because he rushes in to another fight he isn't prepared for

And he reacts as you'd expect a 15 year old to react, and he eventually learns from all this. 

So yeah I'd like another Leif. 

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Guest Dreamyboi
4 minutes ago, Slumber said:

I've been pointing this out a lot lately, since ideas of a new Lord have had a lot of people stating their wants, but this is Leif to a t.

He's a good guy, but he primarily wants to liberate his homeland. Helping people is essentially secondary, and he does it if he can. As the story progresses, he quickly shifts his focus to revenge. Now he wants to get rid of Raydrik, and the fact that Raydrik controls Manster is pretty much just a happy coincidence. And Leif makes no attempts to dance around what this means, as he explicitly states his desire to murder Raydrik throughout the game. 

He also fucks up multiple times in the game, and a large portion of the game is his advisors trying to get Leif to grow up and become a person who is actually worthy of what Leif is trying to do. Leif is emotional, he gets angry, he's impatient and rash, he's often overconfident/underestimates the Thracian armies, and this leads to:

- Him getting captured and his mother figure getting caught and turned to stone after they're separated

- Him constantly being on the run and only scraping by because there are enough people still loyal to Leif's family and enough deserters/dissenters in Thracia who would help liberate it

- Him often losing several key places that he works hard to capture, but can't keep because he's weak and underprepared(IE Tahra) 

- He loses an advisor because he rushes in to another fight he isn't prepared for

And he reacts as you'd expect a 15 year old to react, and he eventually learns from all this. 

So yeah I'd like another Leif. 

Damn, well color me surprised. Once Thracia gets a decent translation I'd be happy to try it out.

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On 3/3/2018 at 11:46 PM, IEatLasers said:

I think that the rumor is wrong and that person won’t be the art director. 

 

Anyway~ I’d like a female lord. 

 

Women got:

 

eirika who is sharing a game with the lore popular ephiraim (not by votes by all women get higher votes because “Waifu” which is another problem of not looking at us past marriage potential/sexual potential giving rise to things like Tharja and Camilla’s outfits) 

 

celica. Shared a game with Alm. 

 

Lyn. Main character for tutorial then an important character. 

 

Corrin if you choose. 

Thats it for female leads. 

There are other female important characters but no female leading roles. 

 

You forgot Micaiah and Azura. Except Micaiah gets her spotlight stolen after part 1 and Azura only gets  a slice but it never really being on her.

Some people consider Elincia a protagonist, but she's a lot like Azura in the sense she never gets the spotlight, just very close to it.

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On 3/3/2018 at 2:03 PM, DefyingFates said:

my grandma is actually shigeru miyamoto and she said that it's all bullshit

but you must know i could pay with my life bringing you this information

 

 

... well yes march 3rd was 2 days ago but even a blind one could've seen it being fake

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8 hours ago, YingofDarkness said:

It doesn't matter who has the most lines, but whom the story is revolving around. Towards the end the story is focusing on Robin regardless of Chrom still having lines. You can argue that Robin doesn't count though because, as an Avatar, they can be a male lead or a female. It just depends on what the player chooses at the beginning.

They haven't done a solid female main lord yet though. They all get shoved to the back so that their male counterpoints get the spotlight, and that is kind of annoying. Personally, I just want a well written main character regardless of whether they are male or female, but I lean more towards wanting them to be female. Also, that example is purely a Western stereotype from what I've seen. I have yet to see a Japanese dev pull this particular move with a main female character and I doubt IS would either. In fact, I doubt IS will do a main female lord at all because of reasons I stated previously. Maybe calling them sexist is too strong a word to use, but in that interview some of the main developers had in Nintendo Dream they did show some very old school type of thinking in regards to gender. To paraphrase Alm and Celica are partly meant to represent their ideas of what masculinity and femininity are. That is why Alm chooses the path of power while Celica chooses the path of love and ends up being sacrificed to Duma. If you look back at their male lords and female lords you'll find a good portion of them fit this sort of mold. Obviously there are exceptions, but it makes it difficult to ever see a female main lord actually became a reality without being shoved aside by a male one at some point.

Back on topic though it seems like that leak was wrong. If a direct was meant to occur tomorrow then they would have announced it by now. Maybe we will get a surprise one tomorrow but it definitely won't include everything that they listed. So we are back to nothing unfortunately.

You looked at one thing I said. 

 

 

The stiry heavily revolves around Chrom. 

Chrom is the main character. You don’t have to like him, but he is. Story starts and ends about Chrom. 

Avatar gets a lot of light, but isn’t main because most of the story isn’t actually about them, or developing their character, or bringing their character further. 

 

Chrom grows and develops, moves the story, and moves with the story all throughout. 

 

You may be romanticizing things! Idk. 

I played like 2 weeks ago because I felt like I forgot too much of it and yeah...it isn’t a question it’s totlaly about Chrom. 

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30 minutes ago, Dandy Druid said:

You forgot Micaiah and Azura. Except Micaiah gets her spotlight stolen after part 1 and Azura only gets  a slice but it never really being on her.

Some people consider Elincia a protagonist, but she's a lot like Azura in the sense she never gets the spotlight, just very close to it.

Well I didn’t list them because I was just listing the ones you could say “well _ is a main character/lord!” 

Michiah sets the stage like Lyn but it’s Ikes game and Ike is popular enough I didn’t think to mention that one! 

Azura...well Corrin was marketed as the first Avatar Main Character, so obviously it can’t be Azura. 

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6 hours ago, Slumber said:

I've been pointing this out a lot lately, since ideas of a new Lord have had a lot of people stating their wants, but this is Leif to a t.

He's a good guy, but he primarily wants to liberate his homeland. Helping people is essentially secondary, and he does it if he can. As the story progresses, he quickly shifts his focus to revenge. Now he wants to get rid of Raydrik, and the fact that Raydrik controls Manster is pretty much just a happy coincidence. And Leif makes no attempts to dance around what this means, as he explicitly states his desire to murder Raydrik throughout the game. 

He also fucks up multiple times in the game, and a large portion of the game is his advisors trying to get Leif to grow up and become a person who is actually worthy of what Leif is trying to do. Leif is emotional, he gets angry, he's impatient and rash, he's often overconfident/underestimates the Thracian armies, and this leads to:

- Him getting captured and his mother figure getting caught and turned to stone after they're separated

- Him constantly being on the run and only scraping by because there are enough people still loyal to Leif's family and enough deserters/dissenters in Thracia who would help liberate it

- Him often losing several key places that he works hard to capture, but can't keep because he's weak and underprepared(IE Tahra) 

- He loses an advisor because he rushes in to another fight he isn't prepared for

And he reacts as you'd expect a 15 year old to react, and he eventually learns from all this. 

So yeah I'd like another Leif. 

A man with good taste in lords I see.

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6 hours ago, Dreamyboi said:

Been following this thread for a while now (only recently decided to make an account) and honestly it's infuriating we STILL don't actually have anything real to talk about yet, honestly though I think we're all just going to be let down by the actual product when it FINALLY shows up anyway. IntSys is just going to turn to the easily pleased crowd that only cares for self inserts, annoying archetypes and ham fisted writing. Followed by FE Youtubers voicing their disappointment, followed by fandom war expect to see the word "elitist" a lot, followed by non FE fans being turned off from the series, followed by FE Youtuber videos called "how to fix FE Switch", and then those of us who haven't given up by that point will wait patiently for the next one or play an FE game we actually like via emulator.

Yes, yes I know I'm being real damn negative but let's face it, even Echoes had it's fair share of problems that fans can fix by putting thought into it in minutes and that story's basic plot was written over a decade ago. For example BlazingKnight's ideas in his "how to fix Fates" video were (and I mean no offense to him when I say this) no brainers.

"Give each country flaws along with their merit"

"Don't make Garon/Mikoto one dimensional"

"Have some actual worldbuilding"

"Make the choice matter"

This is basic shit a competent writer wouldn't have trouble thinking of when coming up with the concept for this plot, but the writers for Fates ignored those while trying to make it more than what it needed to be and we got the triple-decker trainwreck we have today.

"He was possessed by another, bigger lame villain that was responsible for everything the whole time guys GASP. Let's kill him with the power of teamwork even though we just saw him summon a fucking wormhole."

I'm not saying you guys need to be as jaded as I am at this point or anything, but I will say that it's probably best to keep expectations low when it comes to writing because I don't see improvement coming anytime soon. IntSys is in a place where low effort pandering can rake them in more money and considering the series history with sales there's no reason for them not to take the cheap and easy route, and you can expect Mary Sue Emblem to return because of that.

Maybe I'm just mad we haven't seen anything yet though, that's probably it.

My suggestion to Nintendo and IS in order to mend a problem like this is to split the series up into the mainline games and the Echoes games. This way, they need only worry about making the Echoes games decent and innovative, while the mainlines can have all the shitty writing and blatant fanservice a guy could ask for would be more geared towards appealing to a general audience. Basically, release an Echoes game 6-12 months before a mainline game is released, so the hardcore players can get their fill first, and not be so driven to attack FE16 later. 

 

The nature of FE's history has created a clear rift between hardcore and casual players of the series. A hardcore gamer who grew up on the GBA games could look in distaste to how watered down the recent games are. A casual gamer who was introduced to the series through Awakening or Fates would probably wonder to go back to the earlier parts of the series, only to find that the older games are basically Dark Souls in comparison to the older ones. The difference between the old and new has created a polarization between these groups, and Echoes is a signal from Nintendo that they recognize this rift and are willing to mend it. 

 

I've heard some say that Echoes is an attempt to compromise the rift, and that FE16 should as well. I disagree with this, as I believe that a failed compromise would do more damage to the community than no compromise at all. Instead, leave Echoes to the hardcore gamers, and the mainlines to a general audience. 

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Guest Dreamyboi
1 hour ago, ElectiveToast said:

My suggestion to Nintendo and IS in order to mend a problem like this is to split the series up into the mainline games and the Echoes games. This way, they need only worry about making the Echoes games decent and innovative, while the mainlines can have all the shitty writing and blatant fanservice a guy could ask for would be more geared towards appealing to a general audience. Basically, release an Echoes game 6-12 months before a mainline game is released, so the hardcore players can get their fill first, and not be so driven to attack FE16 later. 

 

The nature of FE's history has created a clear rift between hardcore and casual players of the series. A hardcore gamer who grew up on the GBA games could look in distaste to how watered down the recent games are. A casual gamer who was introduced to the series through Awakening or Fates would probably wonder to go back to the earlier parts of the series, only to find that the older games are basically Dark Souls in comparison to the older ones. The difference between the old and new has created a polarization between these groups, and Echoes is a signal from Nintendo that they recognize this rift and are willing to mend it. 

 

I've heard some say that Echoes is an attempt to compromise the rift, and that FE16 should as well. I disagree with this, as I believe that a failed compromise would do more damage to the community than no compromise at all. Instead, leave Echoes to the hardcore gamers, and the mainlines to a general audience. 

I started with Awakening, like many franchise newbies have and honestly I don't think an Echoes sub-series would be a bad idea. Thing is when it comes to "staying true to the original" IntSys tends to overdo it and not change things where they ought to be changed Shadow Dragon. There's a lot of things they could have fixed about the original Gaiden that were just left in. Celica's leap in logic in her argument with Alm, Rudolf's lack of screentime, don't even get me started on the incredibly bad map design. All of these thing ought to be fixed in a remake and yet none of it is, which makes me think that if they do decided to bring back older titles their going to bring their flaws along with them. A game like Gaiden being a fandom middle ground was never going to work.

Path of Radiance will still have the throwaway line about Laguz once being the ones oppressing Beorc with no exploration and never mentioned again. and have characters make obvious observations for the sake of exposition

Radiant Dawn would still have blood pacts and bad unit balancing. and Meg

Binding Blade would still have Roy be dead weight until his promotion, which is late game. 

Genealogy of the Holy War would still be horse emblem and have a giant info-dump as soon as it starts.

This isn't even going into the new stuff/characters they'd add, which were hit and miss with Echoes already.

It's a depressing thought that IntSys would go the general audience route with anything that isn't a remake but a sadly probable outcome, especially since Awakening and Fates both have excuses for their shortcomings that FE Switch simply doesn't have. We shouldn't have to resort to remakes, but I like the idea.

Poor Lief would finally get some recognition.

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Good thing about echoes; 

 

in PoR ike and Lethe had really cute supports. She even got an exclusive ending line with him. 

 

RD they have no supports and talk like once. 

An echoes added supports sooo ;) 

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1 hour ago, ElectiveToast said:

My suggestion to Nintendo and IS in order to mend a problem like this is to split the series up into the mainline games and the Echoes games. This way, they need only worry about making the Echoes games decent and innovative, while the mainlines can have all the shitty writing and blatant fanservice a guy could ask for would be more geared towards appealing to a general audience. Basically, release an Echoes game 6-12 months before a mainline game is released, so the hardcore players can get their fill first, and not be so driven to attack FE16 later. 

 

The nature of FE's history has created a clear rift between hardcore and casual players of the series. A hardcore gamer who grew up on the GBA games could look in distaste to how watered down the recent games are. A casual gamer who was introduced to the series through Awakening or Fates would probably wonder to go back to the earlier parts of the series, only to find that the older games are basically Dark Souls in comparison to the older ones. The difference between the old and new has created a polarization between these groups, and Echoes is a signal from Nintendo that they recognize this rift and are willing to mend it. 

 

I've heard some say that Echoes is an attempt to compromise the rift, and that FE16 should as well. I disagree with this, as I believe that a failed compromise would do more damage to the community than no compromise at all. Instead, leave Echoes to the hardcore gamers, and the mainlines to a general audience. 

That sounds like a very complicated way to fix an issue that doesn't necessarily affect them that much. Besides, few series can survive on fanservice for long. It's (really) good to make a quick buck, but in order to keep that kind of audience around, you have to take it up a notch with every iteration, which you can only do so many times before you're making 18+ games.

I believe that at this point their best course of action is to "simply" make an all-around excellent game. With a solid story, with good visuals, and with balanced, varied gameplay. If you think about it, Fates' marketing was very manipulative and full of empty promises, and while I liked that game, many didn't, and as such I really don't think that's a healthy thing to do.

Heroes and the Switch "drought" are giving them all the spotlight they could currently ask for, so if they can deliver and create an entry that will be remembered for the right reasons, it would be huge for the franchise's future. Sure it's a risk, but they may not get such a chance again for years, decades even.

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2 hours ago, ElectiveToast said:

My suggestion to Nintendo and IS in order to mend a problem like this is to split the series up into the mainline games and the Echoes games. This way, they need only worry about making the Echoes games decent and innovative, while the mainlines can have all the shitty writing and blatant fanservice a guy could ask for would be more geared towards appealing to a general audience. Basically, release an Echoes game 6-12 months before a mainline game is released, so the hardcore players can get their fill first, and not be so driven to attack FE16 later. 

 

The nature of FE's history has created a clear rift between hardcore and casual players of the series. A hardcore gamer who grew up on the GBA games could look in distaste to how watered down the recent games are. A casual gamer who was introduced to the series through Awakening or Fates would probably wonder to go back to the earlier parts of the series, only to find that the older games are basically Dark Souls in comparison to the older ones. The difference between the old and new has created a polarization between these groups, and Echoes is a signal from Nintendo that they recognize this rift and are willing to mend it. 

 

I've heard some say that Echoes is an attempt to compromise the rift, and that FE16 should as well. I disagree with this, as I believe that a failed compromise would do more damage to the community than no compromise at all. Instead, leave Echoes to the hardcore gamers, and the mainlines to a general audience. 

100% in full agreement there

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Guest Dreamyboi
1 hour ago, IEatLasers said:

Good thing about echoes; 

 

in PoR ike and Lethe had really cute supports. She even got an exclusive ending line with him. 

 

RD they have no supports and talk like once. 

An echoes added supports sooo ;) 

True

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5 hours ago, Cysx said:

That sounds like a very complicated way to fix an issue that doesn't necessarily affect them that much. Besides, few series can survive on fanservice for long. It's (really) good to make a quick buck, but in order to keep that kind of audience around, you have to take it up a notch with every iteration, which you can only do so many times before you're making 18+ games.

I believe that at this point their best course of action is to "simply" make an all-around excellent game. With a solid story, with good visuals, and with balanced, varied gameplay. If you think about it, Fates' marketing was very manipulative and full of empty promises, and while I liked that game, many didn't, and as such I really don't think that's a healthy thing to do.

Heroes and the Switch "drought" are giving them all the spotlight they could currently ask for, so if they can deliver and create an entry that will be remembered for the right reasons, it would be huge for the franchise's future. Sure it's a risk, but they may not get such a chance again for years, decades even.

I'm probably going to get mob-lynched for saying this, but making an occasional 18+ game isn't going to kill Nintendo's profits, especially with Fire Emblem and its already mature themes (human on human war, death, politics, social friction, etc) as well as the fact that its target audience is already quite grown up in comparison to other Nintendo fandoms. And then when you look at the sales history of the FE series, you'll find that fanservice actually reels in quite a lot of money. Game of Waifu Emblems isn't that far fetched when you think about it. Not to mention, parents are a lot more lax on what their children view than they were a generation ago; just look at all the squeakers on GTAO and TF2. 

 

Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't like this to be the fate of FE either, but Nintendo notices that blatant fanservice is a lot more profitable than a solid story or good gameplay. And Nintendo, being a business, will go for whichever path prints the most money. Nintendo also notices the rift that Awakening created, and knows that the veteran gamers make up a large portion of the community, but have conflicting tastes with the general audience. Hence, the proposition to return FE to its pre-Awakening years would detract the general audience, while doing Game of Waifu Emblems would detract the hardcore base. Nintendo would have to do a bit of both unless they want to lose out on some huge profit. 

 

On a third note, I don't think we'll see 18+ FE fanservice anytime soon, even if the scenario you describe was completely true. This means that fans of the series (who are mostly young teenagers) would be old enough to see some raunchy things by the time Game of Waifu Emblems comes rolling around. So again, no huge loss there. 

 

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30 minutes ago, ElectiveToast said:

I'm probably going to get mob-lynched for saying this, but making an occasional 18+ game isn't going to kill Nintendo's profits, especially with Fire Emblem and its already mature themes (human on human war, death, politics, social friction, etc) as well as the fact that its target audience is already quite grown up in comparison to other Nintendo fandoms. And then when you look at the sales history of the FE series, you'll find that fanservice actually reels in quite a lot of money. Game of Waifu Emblems isn't that far fetched when you think about it. Not to mention, parents are a lot more lax on what their children view than they were a generation ago; just look at all the squeakers on GTAO and TF2. 

 

Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't like this to be the fate of FE either, but Nintendo notices that blatant fanservice is a lot more profitable than a solid story or good gameplay. And Nintendo, being a business, will go for whichever path prints the most money. Nintendo also notices the rift that Awakening created, and knows that the veteran gamers make up a large portion of the community, but have conflicting tastes with the general audience. Hence, the proposition to return FE to its pre-Awakening years would detract the general audience, while doing Game of Waifu Emblems would detract the hardcore base. Nintendo would have to do a bit of both unless they want to lose out on some huge profit. 

 

On a third note, I don't think we'll see 18+ FE fanservice anytime soon, even if the scenario you describe was completely true. This means that fans of the series (who are mostly young teenagers) would be old enough to see some raunchy things by the time Game of Waifu Emblems comes rolling around. So again, no huge loss there. 

 

Maybe if 18+ themes were in the game, I wouldn't mind since FE4 does it great, but porn-game type of 18+ is something I hope never happens to the franchise. Rest assured that many will have been long gone by that point. Not that I think Nintendo would ever go that far.

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Guest Dreamyboi
24 minutes ago, ElectiveToast said:

Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't like this to be the fate of FE either, but Nintendo notices that blatant fanservice is a lot more profitable than a solid story or good gameplay. And Nintendo, being a business, will go for whichever path prints the most money. Nintendo also notices the rift that Awakening created, and knows that the veteran gamers make up a large portion of the community, but have conflicting tastes with the general audience. Hence, the proposition to return FE to its pre-Awakening years would detract the general audience, while doing Game of Waifu Emblems would detract the hardcore base. Nintendo would have to do a bit of both unless they want to lose out on some huge profit. 

That's actually a pretty good point. I mean personally I hate the idea of Fire Emblem sinking to light novel trash levels but if there's still stuff available for people who actually give a damn about the series and don't just want to see tits and ass that they could easily see by google searching rule 34 then maybe it's worth it.

Personally though I'm just hoping we don't need to resort to remakes for good writing, like I said Awakening and Fates had "excuses" for being the way they were. FE Switch has nothing like that.

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Guest Dreamyboi
3 minutes ago, MetalAmethyst said:

DXe2rpzW4AAz4w6.thumb.jpg.496fff16c43369eabd646a847d271763.jpg

I was going to say "please tell me this is real" and then I read the bit at the bottom.

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Guest Dreamyboi
2 minutes ago, ElectiveToast said:

So it's fake? 

The caption at the bottom mentions complaint comments from fans about 3DS games being announced and I don't think an official Nintendo Direct announcement would do that.

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