Worse Lugh Ever

[Pyro498]

My Lugh got a little Mag screwed

[eclipse]

That sucks. . .but what's the point of this topic?

[Ansem]

showing off his lugh

tbh i've never seen a lugh that bad before lmao. you sir have some amazing luck 

[Flee Fleet!]

Iirc, my Lugh also got magic screwed, having only 6 Mag for the rest of the game.

[Pyro498]

Yeah his base is 4 though. 15 levels and I haven't gained a single point of Mag. To the bench you go lugh

[Flee Fleet!]

2 hours ago, Pyro498 said:

Yeah his base is 4 though. 15 levels and I haven't gained a single point of Mag. To the bench you go lugh

I see.

So are you going to use Lilina or Hugh instead as your main mage now?

[Pyro498]

Probably Lilina. Im pretty sure she has the best attack based stats of the mages. Might use both though cause Hugh is pretty tanky for a mage and thats always helpful. We'll see

[thejohnmatthews]

you don't "need" an anima mage so forcing yourself to use Hugh/Lilina (who are both very mediocre units) is probably a mistake. why not use a better unit?

[eclipse]

1 hour ago, thejohnmatthews said:

you don't "need" an anima mage so forcing yourself to use Hugh/Lilina (who are both very mediocre units) is probably a mistake. why not use a better unit?

Yeah, you're right, Cecilia exists.

[henrymidfields]

Are you shipping Lilina with Roy? If so, then both units get some nice support bonuses. Roy can do with some buffs for the later chapters too.

Edited November 3, 2017 by henrymidfields

[Harvey]

Just goes to show that this game has a lot of balancing issues. RNG arguably being one of them.

Although, I think I remember someone mentioning that despite the low growths that the units have, they can still be usable. But in this case, when you have Cecilla...she won't deal a lot of damage but she's a decent staffbot I guess.

 

[ping]

2 hours ago, Harvey said:

Just goes to show that this game has a lot of balancing issues. RNG arguably being one of them.

No. No, it's not, and it's not even a matter of opinion.

[Harvey]

1 hour ago, ping said:

No. No, it's not, and it's not even a matter of opinion.

I was referring to how that the game isn't balanced if the RNG isn't in your favor.

 

[ping]

It is, though. The game hands you quite a few good prepromotes that you can use instead if a growth unit develops badly.

[De Geso]

On 11/4/2017 at 4:57 AM, Harvey said:

I was referring to how that the game isn't balanced if the RNG isn't in your favor.

 

There are plenty of great units to make up for units that get stat screwed. Sure, this Lugh is dog ass, but you get many units that can take his place later down the line. After all, the games are balanced around permadeath - you get far more than you will ever need.

[eclipse]

On 11/3/2017 at 10:57 PM, Harvey said:

I was referring to how that the game isn't balanced if the RNG isn't in your favor.

 

0% growths run says hi.  The game is arguably harder when the RNG doesn't go your way, and you may have to abandon certain characters, but it is still doable.

[Harvey]

On 11/4/2017 at 3:07 PM, ping said:

It is, though. The game hands you quite a few good prepromotes that you can use instead if a growth unit develops badly.

The issue is that you get them so late in the game. And still, an unpromote is better than a prepromote in general with the exception of few. Also what mage can take over Lugh's place and do better than him?

8 hours ago, eclipse said:

0% growths run says hi.  The game is arguably harder when the RNG doesn't go your way, and you may have to abandon certain characters, but it is still doable.

Which is why its kinda unbalanced. In no growth run, you kinda have to use the ones who reliable enough for your overall combat which are few and far between.

[ping]

5 hours ago, Harvey said:

The issue is that you get them so late in the game. And still, an unpromote is better than a prepromote in general with the exception of few. Also what mage can take over Lugh's place and do better than him?

Nonsense. Marcus joins chapter one. Deke and Rutger (no prepromotes, but with high enough bases to function well without good level-ups) join in 2 and 4. Jerrot in 7. Klein in 10 or 11. Bartre or Echidna in 11. Milady (same as Deke and Rutger) in 13. Cecilia in 14. Igrene and Perceval (and Garret, although he's not very good) in 15. Niime in 19/20. Yoder in 21, Karel in 23. And that's only the prepromotes that I consider to be good (and Garret ;) ).

You do not need a mage to beat the game. If you really want one, Lilina and Hugh (although the latter comes too late for his base stats) are alternatives, but tbh it's just as good to just not use one - you have plenty unit that can deal ranged chip damage (nomads, Cecilia, promoted healer).

5 hours ago, Harvey said:

Which is why its kinda unbalanced. In no growth run, you kinda have to use the ones who reliable enough for your overall combat which are few and far between.

I don't think you got the point. A 0% growths run is possible, which is 100% proof that bad level-ups will never render the game unwinnable. If you see it as a balance flaw that a growth (!) unit can't keep up if it does not proc a 40% Mag growth 14 times in a row, every single FE game has horrible units balance. The chances for that are 0.078%, Pyro just got incredibly unlucky.

And again - FE6's balance (which is flawed in other ways, but I'm not going to reiterate that) does allow for units to turn out bad or even worthless. As YouSquiddinMe pointed out, it takes perma-death into consideration, which is the extreme case of a unit turning out worthless.

Seriously, your determination to call every detail about Binding Blade a flaw (and usually a flaw specific to FE6, even if it is - like this example - something that's the same in every other FE game) is mind-boggling. It's almost as if, despite your assertion otherwise, you hate the game with burning passion.

[Harvey]

1 hour ago, ping said:

Seriously, your determination to call every detail about Binding Blade a flaw (and usually a flaw specific to FE6, even if it is - like this example - something that's the same in every other FE game) is mind-boggling. It's almost as if, despite your assertion otherwise, you hate the game with burning passion.

The issue that I have with FE6 isn't apparent in all the other FE games because the game tends to give you too many units that give you a hard time whom to rely on. If players ended up getting the ones you listed killed somehow, the game is practically unwinnable and that is something this game's big problem is.  I don't hate the game. I am only frustrated with its balance and that's that. If it was balanced enough that even bad units can be serviceable on hard mode, then I wouldn't be bashing it here.

Ok, sure, you don't need a mage to get someone to chip damage but they are certainly helpful nonetheless particularly in the brutal chapter 21 and the end game where you only face dragons. Saying that you don't need a mage is kinda forcing you to preserve dragon slayers and training bow users a whole lot something that sounds like a waste of time.

Also Its been so long since I played it so my bad for my loss of memory there. I'm not gonna bother arguing.

 

EDIT: As for the bad lugh...It could be worse. Atleast he's got good promotion gains so be happy at that.

 

Edited November 8, 2017 by Harvey

[ping]

Dude, this is exactly what I mean. Look at your previous post:

9 hours ago, Harvey said:

The issue is that you get them so late in the game. And still, an unpromote is better than a prepromote in general with the exception of few. Also what mage can take over Lugh's place and do better than him?

Here, you make the point that you don't get prepromotes until late in the game, which would mean that they wouldn't have much of an impact. I respond why I don't think that's true, and now your argument is that said prepromotes are so important that the game is unwinnable if they all die. (And guess what, I'll point out why that's incorrect, too) That's how arguments with you always seem to go: You claim that "FE6 is a bad game (or flawed since you keep insisting that you're not hating) because X" - someone else responds with "X is a recurring theme in FE (like for example random level-ups and growth units are thing in every fucking game of the series)", or "I diagree because Y", which causes you to flip to "FE6 is a bad game because Y". Seriously, no matter what observation one makes about FE6, your conclusion is always that it's a bad thing. Roy is a relatively weak lord/unit in general? That's bad cause you can't take him seriously as such a flawed leader. Roy makes all the right decisions in the game That's also bad, because a flawless protagonist is boring. This time, it used to be a bad thing that prepromotes join too late to be relevant, and now it's a bad thing that they're too essential to beating the game? And you still claim you don't have any irrational hatred for FE6? Really?

Anyway, now you take an extreme course of the game (i.e. the player lets multiple high-tier units die and doesn't reset) to "prove" that the game's balance is complete whack. That is, for the lack of a better term in my English vocabulary, unfair. A game of Civilization can become unwinnable fast if you start next to Montezuma and neglect your military. A game of chess can become unwinnable if you sacrifice your queen and rooks for no reason. Lyn Normal Mode can be literally unwinnable if all units exept Lyn herself die (because of the forced tutorial in Dorcas's joining chapter). Path of Radiance can be unwinnable on hard mode if you didn't train Ike at all and your dragon of choice (well, probably Ena, given the situation) is dead. You can't win the 400m olympic race if you accidently run in the wrong direction at the start. You lose games if you fuck up. And the scenario you're describing is fucking up royally.

The list of prepromotes I've given does not mean that any of them is absolutely essential. In reality, there is exactly one unit that I would consider borderline irreplaceable, and that's Marcus. And that's only on hard mode, since Allen and Lance on NM fare about as well in ch.1 as Marcus does on HM (to my memory, at least, I don't have the number ready to back that up). And only in chapter 1, since you have the necessary numbers to deal with ch2's mooks without Marcus, and Deke with the armorslayer can beat the boss quite comfortably. So it's not even possible to lose the only irreplaceable unit before the start of the only chapter he's irreplaceable in.

All other units can be replaced, although their replacement tends to be not quite as good - that's why they're replacements. The only exception might be Milady, since there's no unit that can both fight nearly as well as her and fly. But even she isn't obligatory - I remember that you were even pretty underwhelmed with her performance on NM, and while that would probably change on HM, it's still far from impossible to beat the game without her. It's just harder and more tedious.

Edited November 8, 2017 by ping

[Harvey]

On 11/4/2017 at 3:07 PM, ping said:

 

On 11/8/2017 at 12:54 AM, eclipse said:

 

Ok... I got the point.

 

Edited November 9, 2017 by Harvey