Anyone else want to see Fire, Thunder, Wind magic ranks return

[Emperor Hardin]

I thought it was an interesting idea, I was thinking it could be expanded too so the anima weapons feel much different.

Fire: Deals damage to horses in addition to beasts(if they include them).

Thunder: Deals damage to Wyverns and Dragons. Unlike RD, Wyvern riding units are still weak to bows.

Wind: Deals effective damage to Pegasus Knights.

The Fire thing could also add another complexity when using cavalry.

[Emperor Hardin]

Browser glitch duplicate.

Edited October 1, 2017 by Emperor Hardin

[Captain Karnage]

NOOOOO, it was a pain in the ass to train up my units for tome rank,

unlike swords, axes, and lances training up a weapon rank is fine, but for a mage to train up 3-4 different tomes was too much work

and I don't think the magic triangle was ever any good

[Emperor Hardin]

22 minutes ago, Captain Karnage said:

NOOOOO, it was a pain in the ass to train up my units for tome rank,

unlike swords, axes, and lances training up a weapon rank is fine, but for a mage to train up 3-4 different tomes was too much work

and I don't think the magic triangle was ever any good

Mages could start with a base non e-rank in tomes.

[Maritisa]

I would personally just like to see magic expanded further
Maybe even a game where magic is the core focus of the game rather than physical weapons as it usually stands.
And rather than Fire/Lightning/Wind, these being replaced with categories of magic on their own instead of being some interchangeable idea.

As-is though, the concept needs expanded on dramatically to separate the types, rather than being division of anima, which was always loosely interchangeable to begin with. Each type should fill a niche and serve a defining purpose, else it's redundant and pointless.

[Captain Karnage]

22 minutes ago, Emperor Hardin said:

Mages could start with a base non e-rank in tomes.

maybe they could get a small benefit from weilding the right tome

but I don't think the magic system needs to be more complicated than the physicall weapons 

[Armagon]

Hell no. Training each Tome rank up would be a pain in the ass, especially for classes that can wield Anima magic alongside Light/Dark magic. I like the idea that the OP mentioned, but do not have them be separate weapon ranks! Just keep Anima magic in one weapon rank.

 

[Shadow Mir]

Hell no. It's unnecessary complication, for one, and second, juggling three weapon ranks would be a serious pain in the ass.

[sirmola]

I don't like it because it leads to a situation where an additional weapon rank is worth a ton less on a magical unit than it is on a physical one.  For example, RD has 17 types of non-character-exclusive sword (and 7 weapon ranks), giving you access to around 2.6 new types of sword per weapon rank. whereas a user of fire, wind, or thunder magic only has 6 non-character-exclusive weapons for the same 7 ranks, giving you access to 0.85 weapons per weapon rank. There is also almost no variety within any given weapon rank. You have a 3-10 range tome, plus 5 progressively stronger tomes, whereas swords have: progressively stronger swords, progressively stronger 1-2 range swords, progresively stronger blades, plus the wo dao, killing edge, wyrmslayer and venin edge. You end up with a weapon type that essentially does 1-2 things, whereas each physical weapon type can do like 5 things.

[Corrobin]

9 hours ago, sirmola said:

I don't like it because it leads to a situation where an additional weapon rank is worth a ton less on a magical unit than it is on a physical one.  For example, RD has 17 types of non-character-exclusive sword (and 7 weapon ranks), giving you access to around 2.6 new types of sword per weapon rank. whereas a user of fire, wind, or thunder magic only has 6 non-character-exclusive weapons for the same 7 ranks, giving you access to 0.85 weapons per weapon rank. There is also almost no variety within any given weapon rank. You have a 3-10 range tome, plus 5 progressively stronger tomes, whereas swords have: progressively stronger swords, progressively stronger 1-2 range swords, progresively stronger blades, plus the wo dao, killing edge, wyrmslayer and venin edge. You end up with a weapon type that essentially does 1-2 things, whereas each physical weapon type can do like 5 things.

Which is why we need more diversity in tomes: Killer tomes, tomes that reverse the weapon triangle, tomes with status ailments, Brave tomes, etc.

[Emperor Hardin]

11 hours ago, sirmola said:

I don't like it because it leads to a situation where an additional weapon rank is worth a ton less on a magical unit than it is on a physical one.  For example, RD has 17 types of non-character-exclusive sword (and 7 weapon ranks), giving you access to around 2.6 new types of sword per weapon rank. whereas a user of fire, wind, or thunder magic only has 6 non-character-exclusive weapons for the same 7 ranks, giving you access to 0.85 weapons per weapon rank. There is also almost no variety within any given weapon rank. You have a 3-10 range tome, plus 5 progressively stronger tomes, whereas swords have: progressively stronger swords, progressively stronger 1-2 range swords, progresively stronger blades, plus the wo dao, killing edge, wyrmslayer and venin edge. You end up with a weapon type that essentially does 1-2 things, whereas each physical weapon type can do like 5 things.

Thats why I think all three ranks should be expanded with more weapons and also to avoid a situation where there is only one anima rank that matters like Wind in FE4.

Also I like the idea in Tearring saga where each mage variant got two magic ranks to start with.

[Azz]

No thanks. If they did it like FEA where we had all types but they were 1 weapon rank sure, all they would need to do is make the tomes different enough (Fire is balanced, Thunder is strong but heavy and inaccurate, Wind is weak but light and accurate) so one isn't superior to the other Looking at you Genealogy and your Wind Tomes. Or fixed weapon ranks like in Genealogy Or bring back the superior Wpn Lvl stat which IMO was the best way cause fuck yo letters.

[X-Naut]

Yes, but if they get separate ranks they better be distinctly different and have a decent variety of tomes. I also don't think the standard differences between the magic types are that great; as for how I would differentiate them:

Fire: Standard magic. It's good as the basic weapon type.
Thunder: Cannot attack at 1-range but its parameters are all better or equal to fire otherwise. Some spells may focus on extended range.
Wind: Grants an avoid bonus against enemy ranged attacks. Not as weak as it used to be but flier effectiveness is now restricted to specific spells instead of universal.

[Lord_Grima]

If it was something similar to Awakening, then I would be fine. One tome weapon rank, but each level has different tomes of each affinity. Base, El-, Arc-, etc. 

I liked Awakening's magic over Fates, because then I could choose what type of tome I wanted to give to each unit while making sure they had the highest level of it. Different bonuses for each type could be neat, but still sounds complicated.

[NekoKnight]

I'd prefer Anima/Light/Dark, but if were are sticking to Wind/Fire/Thunder, I'd only want separate weapon ranks if each magic school were diverse and interesting. Tomes that are only different because of slight stat variations don't need to be in separate schools. There should be a reason to invest more heavily into one type of magic or another.

[Yexin]

i'd love to see the magic triangle coming back!

also, FE9 had one mage for every weapon rank (soren for wind, ilyana for thunder, tormod for fire), so you don't need to train every single mage in every magic type: you just have to train them a bit so thay they can wield a decently powerful tome in order to counter mages who have tomes which are strong against your main magic type

if you train every single unit in every single weapon rank, what's the point in having more units of the same class?

that's also why a unit can reach the higher weapon rank possible with only one weapon, generally: diversification

Edited October 2, 2017 by Yexin

[Michelaar]

Please no. It was way too complicated.

[Magical Glace]

I didn't like the Fire/Thunder/Wind split much, but I do like Anima/Light/Dark having separate ranks. 

Stuff to do to make magic more interesting:

• Make tomes more varied, offer things like brave effects or killer effects
• Add unpromoted horses/flyers who primarily use a certain kind of magic
• Make stats of dark/light users more distinct from anima users and each other
• Lay the magic triangle on top of the physical one (like Heroes, only with the light/dark/anima triangle).

Saying that it was pointless before doesn't mean it has to stay that way.

Edited October 2, 2017 by Glaceon Mage

[Shadow Mir]

On October 2, 2017 at 4:36 AM, Yexin said:

i'd love to see the magic triangle coming back!

also, FE9 had one mage for every weapon rank (soren for wind, ilyana for thunder, tormod for fire), so you don't need to train every single mage in every magic type: you just have to train them a bit so thay they can wield a decently powerful tome in order to counter mages who have tomes which are strong against your main magic type

if you train every single unit in every single weapon rank, what's the point in having more units of the same class?

that's also why a unit can reach the higher weapon rank possible with only one weapon, generally: diversification

But it's all pointless if one magic type winds up superior to the others, like happened in the aforementioned Genealogy, or if tomes wind up being weak, like in the Tellius saga... The general trend of player units being faster to grow than enemy units also has something to do with the magic triangle being little more than an afterthought, as opposed to a legitimate strategic tool.

[Yexin]

2 hours ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

But it's all pointless if one magic type winds up superior to the others, like happened in the aforementioned Genealogy, or if tomes wind up being weak, like in the Tellius saga... The general trend of player units being faster to grow than enemy units also has something to do with the magic triangle being little more than an afterthought, as opposed to a legitimate strategic tool.

well, nothing stops them from making tomes a bit better and balanced in fe16

also, axes have less accuracy but higher might, when compared to swords, just like the tome thunder compared to wind

so what's the difference?

[Shadow Mir]

4 hours ago, Yexin said:

well, nothing stops them from making tomes a bit better and balanced in fe16

also, axes have less accuracy but higher might, when compared to swords, just like the tome thunder compared to wind

so what's the difference?

*points at Radiant Dawn*

Also, I'd say mentioning Path of Radiance did your argument no favours since weapon ranks were slow to rise there. And unless you had mages as more common than they tend to be, the magic triangle would be nothing but a waste of game code.

Edited October 4, 2017 by Levant Mir Celestia

[Ace Pelleas]

Personally I'd like to see the double magic trinity once again, however Light magic is too weak. A way to fix it would be adding miscelaneous strenghts to Light magic users, like enhanced sight during FoW and an extra 5% hit rate against all magic user

[KMT4ever]

I'd like to see one triangle, preferably Anima/Dark/Light, for thematic purposes and to add a degree of variety to magic, but I'd also like magic to be a bit more prominent in FE16 in general.

On the other hand two magic triangles would be unnecessarily complicated IMO, especially if all anima mages got access to all anima types. It'd be like giving mercenaries, fighters, and soldiers all access to swords, lances, and axes, except that enemy mages aren't common enough that you need to worry about having a weapon triangle disadvantage. There'd be no point to spread out proficiency rather than specialize to get the best tomes unless magic disadvantage was scaled way up in severity.

[wissenschaft]

I like how the weapon triangle works in Fates. I want magic and bows to have advantages and weaknesses. I really don't want multiple tome ranks since thats raising all those tome ranks would be a chore.

Edited October 14, 2017 by wissenschaft

[ElectiveToast]

Let's bring back RD's system of magic, where wind beats thunder, tuunder beats fire, fire beats wind, and all of the aforementioned beat light but are beaten by darkness that can only be beaten by light. If we want to expand the weapon system into physical units, lightly armored units could be susceptible to fire, heavy units to thunder, and and flying units to wind.