Why are individual characters so important?

[The DanMan]

Something that I haven't really understood are the people who have said their purchase of this game (and other broadly related titles) hinges on X character's inclusion. 
I'll use the most common example: Ike. I understand a lot of people like Ike, but if his inclusion/exclusion is the biggest deciding factor in getting the game... ? It's just so confusing to me. Ultimately, I'd think someone's buying decision would depend on how the gameplay itself is (the lacking representation of lancers is a complaint I totally get and share, for instance) and not if one or two specific characters are included or not.

Could someone explain this? I'm genuinely confused.

[Azz]

Personally, the roster didn't matter since I genuinely dislike very few characters, however, I think for a lot of people the thing is that they want to run around a battlefield wrecking shit with their favourite characters. Very few people by the looks of it go into Warrior games for their story, they go in to play as their favourites. Look at HW and Ganondorf and Zelda. Two characters you pretty much can never play in a mainline Zelda game, but in HW it is very satisfying playing as them, especially when they are characters you love.

[Interdimensional Observer]

For myself, I'm not terribly big on individual characters, but I do feel with regards to the greater cast. Not just weapon/class diversity, but also the chosen games. I don't feel connected at all to Fates's crew, and my Awakening bonds are weak, while the Archanea representation is minimal and also not of the strongest bonds either. More Archaneans would bind me tighter to the game though.

I do think people should focus first and foremost on the gameplay. I would suggest they not buy the game if the gameplay were crap but it had their favorites. Although it appears the gameplay is very solid.

Ordinary Musou fans will probably end up loving this game and won't care about the Class and Weapon type mistakes that have been made. It'll be more FE fans who complain and don't buy. They may be FE fans who like Musou gameplay already, but aren't willing to spend $40-60 on the game since thats not cheap and they won't be completely entertained. Musou likes being flashy and epic, but that isn't so easy to portray when you aren't/can't be connected to the characters within.

[thecrimsonflash]

FEW has the fire emblem name, the name alone creates an expectation of what the game should be, in this given context characters are very important, when that expectation turns into none of my favorite characters are in this game, many of us may find that the gameplay could have been average and it would have worked, I like the dynasty warriors style of gameplay, but not everyone does, for some people who are indifferent to the gameplay they may be willing to pull the lever only when their favorites are included, but when that never happens they will have no good reason to buy the game and no amount of quality could fix that.

Some also do care for the aesthetics of a game which could be as much of a deal breaker as crap gameplay and some of us are not major fans of modern FE art and that could hurt a person's enjoyment of the game.

[The DanMan]

5 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

For myself, I'm not terribly big on individual characters, but I do feel with regards to the greater cast. Not just weapon/class diversity, but also the chosen games. I don't feel connected at all to Fates's crew, and my Awakening bonds are weak, while the Archanea representation is minimal and also not of the strongest bonds either. More Archaneans would bind me tighter to the game though.

I do think people should focus first and foremost on the gameplay. I would suggest they not buy the game if the gameplay were crap but it had their favorites. Although it appears the gameplay is very solid.

Ordinary Musou fans will probably end up loving this game and won't care about the Class and Weapon type mistakes that have been made. It'll be more FE fans who complain and don't buy. They may be FE fans who like Musou gameplay already, but aren't willing to spend $40-60 on the game since thats not cheap and they won't be completely entertained. Musou likes being flashy and epic, but that isn't so easy to portray when you aren't/can't be connected to the characters within.

That's part of the deal with me-- I started with other Musou games, where you don't go in expecting to play characters you like. I went in and found the characters who'd become my favorites because of how they played. Ma Chao, for instance, is of the justice-obsessed archetype that I hate... but he's so fun to play.

Take Frederick here, for instance-- I couldn't be more neutral on him as a character, but his moveset looks awesome and he'll likely end up on my main team.

4 minutes ago, thecrimsonflash said:

FEW has the fire emblem name, the name alone creates an expectation of what the game should be, in this given context characters are very important, when that expectation turns into none of my favorite characters are in this game, many of us may find that the gameplay could have been average and it would have worked, I like the dynasty warriors style of gameplay, but not everyone does, for some people who are indifferent to the gameplay they may be willing to pull the lever only when their favorites are included, but when that never happens they will have no good reason to buy the game and no amount of quality could fix that.

Some also do care for the aesthetics of a game which could be as much of a deal breaker as crap gameplay and some of us are not major fans of modern FE art and that could hurt a person's enjoyment of the game.

If someone is so ambivalent/on the fence that a character inclusion could tip them, then I have to wonder if they'd actually enjoy the game.

I think the game's sales will have as much to say about whether there was enough demand for a Fire Emblem Warriors game as it will about the PR effecting things/roster choices.

Edited October 2, 2017 by The DanMan

[Callisto]

I pre-ordered this game solely because of the Fire Emblem name and because of the fact that some of my favorite characters are in it (Cordelia, Elise, and others). 

I've never played a Warriors game before, I hardly understand how a Warriors game works to be quite honest, but the game looks good enough, and the support conversations look like a good enough reason to play the game to me, so from my perspective, I can understand 100% why someone wouldn't want to play this game if their favorite character wasn't included.

[Lightchao42]

Insert joke about characters being functions and "just doing things" here

I suspect that a portion of the people that exclusively care about Ike (as in the above example) only know of him through Smash and have never touched a FE game, so they wouldn't be very interested in the game to begin with. I doubt all Ike supporters are like that, and certainly not any on this forum, but some of them likely are.

Using myself as an example, I think excluding Azura is dumb, they shouldn't have saved her for DLC (even if it makes sense business wise), and the roster is pretty lacking, but I'm interested in the gameplay and seeing how the characters play, and I liked Hyrule Warriors so I'm still going to get it.

[maybe]

the thing is, the reason a lot of people are gonna care about this game to begin with is because it has the "fire emblem" name on it

that's instantly gonna attract most fans of the series, regardless of the game

the gameplay being good is important too, but the big thing that makes fans including myself want to play it initially is that it's fire emblem

and if the fire emblem aspect of it doesn't meet people's expectations... then it's really just another game that may or may not be decent, and whether or not it's fire emblem is sorta irrelevant

there's a decent amount of characters in that I like, but up until lyn was announced I wasn't interested at all, since there wasn't really anyone in I cared about except chrom, and as fun as robin looked to play as, it wasn't enough to make me prioritize buying it over any of the other games I was thinking about buying

the full roster has around 3 or 4 characters I like, and I still do want to play as robin, but it's definitely not a big priority to me. on the other hand, if tobin or soren or someone else I really liked was in it, I'd probably try to get my hands on it as soon as possible because I just like those characters that much and I'd really want to play this fun looking game as them

whether the game looks fun or not, the main draw of it for a lot of people is gonna be getting to play as the characters they like, so whether the gameplay looks good or not, people won't be as interested if it doesn't have the characters they like

[Icelerate]

Well if the characters didn't matter, what's the point of making a FE themed Dynasty Warriors game in the first place? Of course, gameplay is more important but the appeal of FE Warriors is to play the game with FE characters. If they're only going to include three different games and leave out fan favourites, it will most certainly leave a bad taste for many people. 

[Interdimensional Observer]

1 minute ago, The DanMan said:

I think the game's sales will have as much to say about whether there was enough demand for a Fire Emblem Warriors game as it will about the PR effecting things/roster choices.

Everyone could agree that one was wanted. But whether they wanted one simply to extend the FE series as they see it in any way possible (as in they'd take an FE DDR game or coloring book if it extended the series), or wanted an actual Musou game, is the question to be answered.

 

6 minutes ago, The DanMan said:

That's part of the deal with me-- I started with other Musou games, where you don't go in expecting to play characters you like. I went in and found the characters who'd become my favorites because of how they played.

I get this, I did come to like a bunch of SW/DW chars based on a combination of gameplay and style. I dislike Zhang He's stereotypical personality and terrible English VA, but I love his gameplay (No's is also good), while Hanbei is eh on the gameplay side, but I like him personally. And I like Susano-o's badass awesomeness of looks and gameplay. 

I admit I'm quite the oddball, since I irrationally like to keep myself in the dark from the Fates cast. I know them only via secondhand information.

[The DanMan]

5 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Everyone could agree that one was wanted. But whether they wanted one simply to extend the FE series as they see it in any way possible (as in they'd take an FE DDR game or coloring book if it extended the series), or wanted an actual Musou game, is the question to be answered.

Inside the FE fandom it was a recurring topic, but outside of it there was hype/demand for HW2 or heck, Smash Warriors even.

14 minutes ago, Lightchao42 said:

Insert joke about characters being functions and "just doing things" here

I suspect that a portion of the people that exclusively care about Ike (as in the above example) only know of him through Smash and have never touched a FE game, so they wouldn't be very interested in the game to begin with. I doubt all Ike supporters are like that, and certainly not any on this forum, but some of them likely are.

Using myself as an example, I think excluding Azura is dumb, they shouldn't have saved her for DLC (even if it makes sense business wise), and the roster is pretty lacking, but I'm interested in the gameplay and seeing how the characters play, and I liked Hyrule Warriors so I'm still going to get it.

As much as that's become a meme, it's a position I don't entirely disagree with.

[wissenschaft]

Well, the game exist not because of any fan demand but because Koei thought it would be fun to make. Sometimes devs make games for fun.....

especially when they spam out mosu games and therefore have the spare cash

Edited October 2, 2017 by wissenschaft

[Ertrick36]

Well, that's just the FE appeal in it.  FE has been, for the past decade and a half, fairly character driven, and the last few games really emphasized that.  So it's no surprise people care so much about it.

They aren't Musou fans.  Heck, I doubt very many of them will play the game for more than a month, and it probably won't sucker them into the mainline Warriors' games.  But regardless, none of that changes the fact that this is a FE spin-off, so it naturally attracts the attention of FE fans, and most of them will care solely about the FE aspects.

I myself am not particularly a Musou fan (I don't hate them, though) and do care to some extent about the roster, but just seeing Chrom get his due was honestly enough.  The fact that it has other favorites of mine like Lucina, Frederick, or even Oboro (just the fact that she's even in the game at all) only helps hasten my decision to get it.  Not to mention that for all the "cloning" and "sword user" crap there is, there still is a nice diversity of fighters in the game without it being totally ridiculous and nonsensical.

[LucarioGamer812]

Basically Fire Emblem is built on characters, and fans expect their favorites to be in the game. Fire Emblem fans who've never played a musou game care more about the content representation more then gameplay. I myself do have roster hopes, but they don't make or break the game for me. I was going to get warriors no matter what and enjoy it, I'm just lucky Cordelia is playable. I'll be honest my experience of musou games is limited to only Hyule Warriors, which made me enjoy the game type.

[eclipse]

8 minutes ago, LucarioGamer812 said:

Basically Fire Emblem is built on characters, and fans expect their favorites to be in the game. Fire Emblem fans who've never played a musou game care more about the content representation more then gameplay. I myself do have roster hopes, but they don't make or break the game for me. I was going to get warriors no matter what and enjoy it, I'm just lucky Cordelia is playable. I'll be honest my experience of musou games is limited to only Hyule Warriors, which made me enjoy the game type.

I haven't played a Musou game, and I care more about the gameplay.  That's because the characters may drive the plot, but it's up to me to make it happen.  I'll even play as Cordy, despite my low opinion of her.

Might pick up the other Musou games if the gameplay impresses me.  But it's going to have to be on par with something like Radiant Historia.

[Interdimensional Observer]

7 minutes ago, wissenschaft said:

Well, the game exist not because of any fan demand but because Koei thought it would be fun to make. Sometimes devs make games for fun.....

especially when they spam out mosu games and therefore have the spare cash

I don't think they'll make a Musou game unless they know it has a potentially profitable fanbase to tap into, no matter how much fun they'd think it would be. And I question how large the Musou profitability margin is.

 

10 minutes ago, The DanMan said:

Inside the FE fandom it was a recurring topic, but outside of it there was hype/demand for HW2 or heck, Smash Warriors even.

Gods no to Smash Warriors! A crossover crossing into another genre, I can see it only being a total mess.

HW2 demand only exists because HW does and it was a great and unexpected success which probably helped fuel Smash Warriors hype/demand too since it opened the floodgates to Musou-izing Nintendo franchises. Once FEW is released, will we see hype/demand for FEW2 out the FE fandom?

 

1 minute ago, eclipse said:

Might pick up the other Musou games if the gameplay impresses me.  But it's going to have to be on par with something like Radiant Historia.

Well you can find one on the cheap, there are several solid Musous available on the market for a low price now. See if Gamestop has Samurai Warriors Chronicles for 3DS, or if you have a PS3 Dynasty Warriors 8. A Wii U could get you Warriors Orochi 3 Hyper.

[Zapp Branniglenn]

I once asked whether a Warriors game lives or dies by its roster. The responses were either a resounding no, or a maybe. But every time a character is confirmed or deconfirmed, this sub forum reaches def con 3. Ike isn't special in this regard.

The first day I played Hyrule Warriors, I was ready to pre-order "This, but with Fire Emblem". I heartily admit that, at this point, 80% of the reason I'm putting the money down is because it's a Warriors game on Switch, a platform that I have been loving. There are five other games that meet this criteria, but they are not in English. But hearing the way the developers talk about their game...gods that is awful. They hate this game. They hate the people who want to buy it. Months before they said Ike and Roy would be held back as sequel bait, I had been contemplating whether I should avoid this game on principle. I hate being part of the problem. But my resolve comes from my standard practice of divorcing art from artist.

Edit: Whoops, messed up the link.

Edited October 2, 2017 by Glennstavos

[eclipse]

1 minute ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Well you can find one on the cheap, there are several solid Musous available on the market for a low price now. See if Gamestop has Samurai Warriors Chronicles for 3DS, or if you have a PS3 Dynasty Warriors 8. A Wii U could get you Warriors Orochi 3 Hyper.

Would like to actually play Warriors before committing to anything.  The FE version will probably be a bit different, but the overall mechanics should be the same across Musou games.  But thanks for the suggestions!

[redtutel]

2 minutes ago, Glennstavos said:

But hearing the way the developers talk about their game...gods that is awful. They hate this game. They hate the people who want to buy it. Months before they said Ike and Roy would be held back as sequel bait, I had been contemplating whether I should avoid this game on principle. I hate being part of the problem. But my resolve comes from my standard practice of divorcing art from artist.

I REALLY hate when people question the morality of the develops just because they're not including their favorite character. With the exception of Lyn and Celica, the plan was and has always been characters from 3 (technically 6 since Shadow Dragon counts as 4) games in the series. Exactly how much of that was a creative decision or a business decision is unknown, but they are not bad people for making it. WE made the assumption that the DLC would cover other games.

They would like to make a sequel someday if the game sells well enough, and if they do they'd include characters from other games, but that doesn't mean they were twirling their mustaches and holding back content to make more money, nor does that mean they're desperately begging for sales. 

[Refa]

14 minutes ago, eclipse said:

Might pick up the other Musou games if the gameplay impresses me.  But it's going to have to be on par with something like Radiant Historia.

I don't think many games are going to meet standards that high haha.

[wissenschaft]

12 minutes ago, eclipse said:

Would like to actually play Warriors before committing to anything.  The FE version will probably be a bit different, but the overall mechanics should be the same across Musou games.  But thanks for the suggestions!

 I'll probably look into getting it as well if I like FE warriors. It should be a fun distraction.

Edited October 2, 2017 by wissenschaft

[Zapp Branniglenn]

3 minutes ago, redtutel said:

I REALLY hate when people question the morality of the develops just because they're not including their favorite character. With the exception of Lyn and Celica, the plan was and has always been characters from 3 (technically 6 since Shadow Dragon counts as 4) games in the series. Exactly how much of that was a creative decision or a business decision is unknown, but they are not bad people for making it. WE made the assumption that the DLC would cover other games.

They would like to make a sequel someday if the game sells well enough, and if they do they'd include characters from other games, but that doesn't mean they were twirling their mustaches and holding back content to make more money, nor does that mean they're desperately begging for sales. 

You're barking up the wrong tree. I never once expressed displeasure at the roster in my post. 

[eclipse]

3 minutes ago, Refa said:

I don't think many games are going to meet standards that high haha.

I didn't think TMS would, but it did.  Thus, I will give the game an honest shot.  I can't find a new favorite if I don't try~!

2 minutes ago, wissenschaft said:

I believe you'd want Samurai Warriors Chronicles 2 and skip the first one for the 3DS since the 2nd is just a better made rerelease of the first. Literally, same story, characters, etc. I'll probably look into getting it as well if I like FE warriors.

I, uh, thanks?  I hope you like Warriors, too!

(Titania for DLC maybe?  Hope will never die!)

[wissenschaft]

5 minutes ago, eclipse said:

I didn't think TMS would, but it did.  Thus, I will give the game an honest shot.  I can't find a new favorite if I don't try~!

I, uh, thanks?  I hope you like Warriors, too!

(Titania for DLC maybe?  Hope will never die!)

Ah, actually, the 2nd game was only released in japan. So never mind. lol Only the first and 3rd were released in the west. Bah, sucks. I hate when we get stuck with an inferior version. Much sad.

And I have no hope of Titania or Milady appearing in a warriors game. LOL If it happens I'll be ecstatic but if not, meh, I'll live. At least 3D Camilla is mine. (Needs more dragon riders).

Edited October 2, 2017 by wissenschaft

[Interdimensional Observer]

5 minutes ago, wissenschaft said:

At least 3D Camilla is mine. (Needs more dragon riders).

3D and Camilla should not be used in the same phrasing as that you did use methinks. It gave me the momentary impression you're drawn to her bottomless canyons and the crags that line them.

This said, if the game got 3 Pegasus Knights, we should have had more Wyverns and more Paladins, SD isn't lacking in the former, and FE as a whole not in the least in the latter. Having the divisive Camilla alone isn't all that fun. Minerva would fix that.