I’ve gotta say, Olivia is Chrom’s best wife for the story

[IEatLasers]

What’s so dismissive about my statement now? Sigh~ I don’t see how I’m dismissing anything...

though this topic is bringing up my appreciation for my ship so I’m not really mad at anyone or anything~ maybe in another time we could even share headcanons about this and other ships ^^

[eclipse]

8 minutes ago, IEatLasers said:

What’s so dismissive about my statement now? Sigh~ I don’t see how I’m dismissing anything...

though this topic is bringing up my appreciation for my ship so I’m not really mad at anyone or anything~ maybe in another time we could even share headcanons about this and other ships ^^

Because you're ignoring everyone that's contradicting your stance?

[IEatLasers]

Eh? That’s not the case at all. I’ve responded to pretty much everything 

[eclipse]

I beg to differ.

[IEatLasers]

Okay that’s fine then~ I just made the topic to give my opinions I’m not looking to fight over mostly petty stuff 

[eclipse]

You can always make a blog, and disable comments.  Then you can post your headcanon to your heart's content~!

[IEatLasers]

It’s not just headcanons. I am putting evidence from the story why I like it so much. 

 

And the major point here is me not wanting to fight about things and just have a good time. I’m not sure why you’re gettin so upset by that though 

[eclipse]

2 minutes ago, IEatLasers said:

It’s not just headcanons. I am putting evidence from the story why I like it so much. 

 

And the major point here is me not wanting to fight about things and just have a good time. I’m not sure why you’re gettin so upset by that though 

Do you know how to make me mad?  By presupposing my thoughts.  BTW, this applies to people besides me.

Don't do that again.

[Augestein]

6 hours ago, Sias said:

Quote

The comparison to Lucina can be explained in a fairly simple way actually. Because the support chains have to stay logical at all times, you can only mention characters that have to be already recruited at the time when the conversation takes place. Which means that the only child unit that you could compare him to is Lucina - all others could be dead at that point, not existing (due to their mother not marrying) or simply not yet known to the player because the paralogue wasn't completed.

 

It's still weird and unwarranted. It's very unnatural. The support shouldn't have compared Inigo to anyone. And more pressingly, we know that the writers for the games aren't above that. Elise's Arthur support has her mention Arthur trying to make Xander laugh despite the fact that the likelihood of Arthur being able to even visit Xander to make him laugh is absurd. The best part? It's support C. Meaning that they just didn't care. I mean it seems really dumb if you have a scenario where Lucina gets wrecked for instance and isn't able to be fielded. "Why can't you behave more like Lucina?" You know, the girl that was so reckless that she got herself grievously injured and can no longer fight? Sounds like a great role model. Especially when Inigo can't be dead for this support to be happening. Or even worse, the Japanese text for Morgan x Lucina supports make no attempt to make it make sense when Morgan is known for liking bugs (the localization intelligently changes it to be specifically a cockroach-- which he hates). Even using the fact that Awakening supports "make more sense," I still have issue with it. 

1 hour ago, TheSilentChloey said:

Robin is a what I would consider the strongest case for a powerful mage unit but that would ultimately depend on what classes and skills you have her have...so that part only in theory makes sense when it's Morgan saying it (also fun fact Morgan comes with an Elfire tome to start with).  It could also be a case of them saying to kill the roach with fire...

Which is sort of true, until you realize that the only reason this support even makes any kind of sense is because of efforts from the localization team. Which I know-- still counts, as this could have been pushed by the creators themselves, and this localization DOES have Nintendo's stamp of approval, but the point still stands. 

[TheSilentChloey]

2 minutes ago, Augestein said:

Which is sort of true, until you realize that the only reason this support even makes any kind of sense is because of efforts from the localization team. Which I know-- still counts, as this could have been pushed by the creators themselves, and this localization DOES have Nintendo's stamp of approval, but the point still stands. 

I suppose that's the whole point of the supports in the first place?   Mind you I never did get a chance to do the Japanese version (nor do I have enough of an understanding to play it).

Aside from that head-cannon in any form is dangerous...unless you state your head-cannon and back down when its proven wrong.  Which based on the topic here is pretty much OP stating their head-cannon and not backing down when there isn't enough evidence to support their head-cannon.

[Augestein]

35 minutes ago, IEatLasers said:

It’s not just headcanons. I am putting evidence from the story why I like it so much. 

 

And the major point here is me not wanting to fight about things and just have a good time. I’m not sure why you’re gettin so upset by that though 

No one is. But you started out with "I think it's the best pairing for Chrom." That's fine, and dandy, people just asked why. And when you gave an explanation, some people disagreed. Or even said that they didn't see certain things you did such as Chrom's bloodlust. 

I think Robin x Sumia > Any Sumia pairing in the game. And believe that Chrom's best support is with Mary. We all have our preferences for things. Even saying things like 

I think Chrom x Olivia is great because they look cute together, Inigo is adorable with Chrom's hair color, and I like they they hook up with each other like they are from a fairy tale are fine. You don't have to have a big reason for why you like them together. 

I think that Basillo x Fem!Robin is adorable. It's one of my fave pairings. Why? I think it's cute how Basillo gets so flustered around Robin trying to win her heart that he eventually just gives up. 

 

2 minutes ago, TheSilentChloey said:

I suppose that's the whole point of the supports in the first place?   Mind you I never did get a chance to do the Japanese version (nor do I have enough of an understanding to play it).

Aside from that head-cannon in any form is dangerous...unless you state your head-cannon and back down when its proven wrong.  Which based on the topic here is pretty much OP stating their head-cannon and not backing down when there isn't enough evidence to support their head-cannon.

Believe me, I love those little changes to make it make more sense. It's great. Because as I've said before, this sort of thing has happened to me in real life with my sister, except flop me being Lucina and my sister being Morgan. She doesn't have a problem with bugs, just roaches. She cannot stand them. I laughed incredibly hard, and the conversation is oddly nostalgic for me.

I wouldn't say head-canon is particularly dangerous so long as there isn't anything contradicting it. Even if it was, I still think that's fine. This game is pretty open ended and wants you to have fun first and foremost. Saying that Chrom x Olivia is your canon is fine. Going down a deranged list and insisting that it's somehow THE canon on the other hand is not fine. As long as we remember that, I think we're fine. Sort of like you getting a bit of a chuckle out of Morgan having an Elfire. That IS pretty funny. 

Edited October 5, 2017 by Augestein

[IEatLasers]

 

15 minutes ago, TheSilentChloey said:

I suppose that's the whole point of the supports in the first place?   Mind you I never did get a chance to do the Japanese version (nor do I have enough of an understanding to play it).

Aside from that head-cannon in any form is dangerous...unless you state your head-cannon and back down when its proven wrong.  Which based on the topic here is pretty much OP stating their head-cannon and not backing down when there isn't enough evidence to support their head-cannon.

I’m not mentioning most headcanons. 

 

Reason I ain’t including headcanon is because this topic I’m mostly just talking about the actual story, the character progression of Chrom, the supports in general, the specific supports with the characters I’m talking about. 

I’m putting lines from game (paraphrased) mentioning supports in games 

and giving my opinion for why those supports and Olivia’s personality with Chrom’s lead to the best overall story. 

I am not actually arguing canon. Just my opinion for what makes the story best, based on supports and lines that we see. 

There’s an objective way to see things where we can say “I think Chrom marrying the girl he meets shortly before the final battle and is shy around is best” (I mean my argument is more complicated than that obviously) 

but people got wrapped up in game mechanics and “canon” while awakening supports don’t gave a canon that it got tough and I admit I began arguing that too for a bit there, but it ain’t what my topics about. 

47 minutes ago, eclipse said:

Do you know how to make me mad?  By presupposing my thoughts.  BTW, this applies to people besides me.

Don't do that again.

Eh? Sorry if I hurt your feelings or anything like that. I’m just saying I didn’t really make this topic to fight about things like that or this. *hugs* 

[TheSilentChloey]

13 minutes ago, IEatLasers said:

 

I’m not mentioning most headcanons. 

 

Reason I ain’t including headcanon is because this topic I’m mostly just talking about the actual story, the character progression of Chrom, the supports in general, the specific supports with the characters I’m talking about. 

I’m putting lines from game (paraphrased) mentioning supports in games 

and giving my opinion for why those supports and Olivia’s personality with Chrom’s lead to the best overall story. 

I am not actually arguing canon. Just my opinion for what makes the story best, based on supports and lines that we see. 

There’s an objective way to see things where we can say “I think Chrom marrying the girl he meets shortly before the final battle and is shy around is best” (I mean my argument is more complicated than that obviously) 

but people got wrapped up in game mechanics and “canon” while awakening supports don’t gave a canon that it got tough and I admit I began arguing that too for a bit there, but it ain’t what my topics about. 

Eh? Sorry if I hurt your feelings or anything like that. I’m just saying I didn’t really make this topic to fight about things like that or this. *hugs* 

 

Then why are a majority of your posts pretty much nothing but head-canon?  Then when people give reasons why they do not agree you chose to either ignore them and keep plowing forward with head-canon that doesn't work from Awakening's cannon?

[IEatLasers]

Huh? That isn’t exactly what it’s like you know. If we keep going like this it’ll just be a circle. From post one I was talking about stuff in game and I haven’t been trying to ignore things 

[Lau]

I normally shy away from debates involving ships due to several...awful moments years ago, but this is a grand opportunity to talk about my Awakening OTP, so let little ol' Lau set you all straight. I'm just kidding, ship what you want to your hearts content, you're all beautiful people.

Chrom's best wife is Robin. While I personally prefer Chrom x Male Robin because hey, why not, but we're delving into actual gameplay stuff, so Female Robin it is.

I say Robin because she's one of the focus characters in Awakening, so much she kinda hijacks the plot near the end, but that's avatars for you. Her bond with Chrom is one of the main themes in the game. Constantly throughout, you get both of them calling themselves 'two parts of the same whole', and y'all may be like, Lau, they're just friends. Fool! But I say otherwise. This is the kind of bond you want in a relationship, but anyways. My point is that Chrom and Robin are really freaking close. Like, closer than Chrom is with his other potential wives. Robin is also the one who interacts more with Lucina, in chapter...21 if memory serves, when shit goes down, as we all know, and in the Hot Spring Scramble. This is all because Robin, again, is a main character, so it actually makes more sense for Robin to be Chrom's wife. They complete each other, the story becomes a lot more if they get hitched, it's beautiful. It's relevant and it isn't tossed aside like Chrom's other ships. In fact, I'd say that the only thing stopping Chrobin from being canon is Robin's avatar status, which is a damn shame.

Also the fact that Chrom kisses her in the Summer Scramble DLC, if you want a little tidbit.

Of course, this is not to say that Chrom's other pairings are bad, because they're not. It's just, personal preference wins out. I just really like having a Lucina that runs Aether, Galeforce, Rightful King, Ignis and Swordfaire, and Robin gives her all that. Also, Morgan looks great with blue hair.

The only thing I don't like about Chrom x Female Robin is its support chain, but if we just pretend that it was actually Chrom x Male Robin's support chain plus the S support...absolute perfection.

I know this isn't really contributing, but just let me bask in the fluffiness that is Chrobin, it's rare that I go on a ramble about ships, don't hate me :)

[IEatLasers]

You’re good. Feel free~ 

 

for me the only reason i am not so chrobin focused is because I usually playbas a guy avatar (surprisingly because I always play female when I have the choice in other games) 

and I’ve started liking the thene of strong platonic friendships that end up deeper than family sometimes in a lot of things (Also why I liked Teen wolf even though it’s pretty bad)

[shadowofchaos]

15 hours ago, IEatLasers said:

It’s not just headcanons. I am putting evidence from the story why I like it so much. 

 

And the major point here is me not wanting to fight about things and just have a good time. I’m not sure why you’re gettin so upset by that though 

You're... Kind of on a forum.

Where criticism, debate, and discussion is part of the entire point.

Argument and discourse happen when you make a topic.

Like eclipse implied: This isn't a place just to post and make a topic and not expect it to get questioned. Anything people post here is fair game to get torn apart (not implying everyone here has ill will and will jump on the train to tear something apart).

Liking a pairing is subjective. But when you say it is "better for the story" that has parts to it that is objective that people can criticize.

A thing you haven't responded to is the justification of quality with the time skip marriage. That is probably on the level of "love at first sight" with Sigurd and Deidre in FE4 (I apologize if you don't get the comparison) with less believability and visuals.

Edited October 5, 2017 by shadowofchaos

[IEatLasers]

No it isn’t so objective. What makes a story good is subjective 

what sorts of stories do you prefer to read and watch? What have you seen a lot and like/don’t like? 

 

And im open to discussion and talking about it, so yeah a forum is a fine place for me. I don’t see why you seem to think it ain’t..?

[shadowofchaos]

1 minute ago, IEatLasers said:

No it isn’t so objective. What makes a story good is subjective 

what sorts of stories do you prefer to read and watch? What have you seen a lot and like/don’t like? 

 

And im open to discussion and talking about it, so yeah a forum is a fine place for me. I don’t see why you seem to think it ain’t..?

How you take the writing is subjective.

How the story is connected via gameplay is partly objective. Using lampshading as a device to call attention to something to get your "suspension of disbelief" at ease during the time skip of the marriage can be criticized without only referencing one's own preference.

It is akin to criticizing a work of writing in an academic setting.

[IEatLasers]

I guess I should say 

 

for Chrom, Inigo, Olivia, Lucina’s established personalities, that royal family has the make up which most fits each other as well as story element and character development and the times they all take place 

 

I guess?~

[Sias]

21 hours ago, Augestein said:

It's still weird and unwarranted. It's very unnatural. The support shouldn't have compared Inigo to anyone. And more pressingly, we know that the writers for the games aren't above that. Elise's Arthur support has her mention Arthur trying to make Xander laugh despite the fact that the likelihood of Arthur being able to even visit Xander to make him laugh is absurd. The best part? It's support C. Meaning that they just didn't care. I mean it seems really dumb if you have a scenario where Lucina gets wrecked for instance and isn't able to be fielded. "Why can't you behave more like Lucina?" You know, the girl that was so reckless that she got herself grievously injured and can no longer fight? Sounds like a great role model. Especially when Inigo can't be dead for this support to be happening. Or even worse, the Japanese text for Morgan x Lucina supports make no attempt to make it make sense when Morgan is known for liking bugs (the localization intelligently changes it to be specifically a cockroach-- which he hates). Even using the fact that Awakening supports "make more sense," I still have issue with it.

That's a problem with quite a bunch of support chains though - they just go and randomly reference one of the main characters, even though it may not be all that appropriate. And if they wanted to bring Lucina up as figure of responsibility in any of the other child supports, Inigo's actually isn't a bad choice for that.

Also, I believe it's not exactly fair to criticize the support on the basis that Lucina could have "retreated" at that point. A lot of supports work off assumptions about your gameplay that may not true at all - for example, Sully being Chrom's equal or Lon'qu protecting Lissa from dangerous bandits doesn't make much sense either when you've immediately benched the former but used the latter throughout the whole game.

6 hours ago, IEatLasers said:

I guess I should say 

 

for Chrom, Inigo, Olivia, Lucina’s established personalities, that royal family has the make up which most fits each other as well as story element and character development and the times they all take place 

 

I guess?~

The problem probably is that you're still stating this as if it were a fact, but it's purely your subjective opinion.

Edited October 6, 2017 by Sias

[IEatLasers]

It’s subjective for everyone so I figured opinions were implied.  

[saisymbolic]

41 minutes ago, IEatLasers said:

It’s subjective for everyone so I figured opinions were implied.  

Unfortunately, with how the internet is with how text can't really convey emotion, it's practically required to either blatantly state your opinion is an opinion, or word it in a way that it's obvious it's an opinion.

[Augestein]

2 hours ago, Sias said:

That's a problem with quite a bunch of support chains though - they just go and randomly reference one of the main characters, even though it may not be all that appropriate. And if they wanted to bring Lucina up as figure of responsibility in any of the other child supports, Inigo's actually isn't a bad choice for that.

Also, I believe it's not exactly fair to criticize the support on the basis that Lucina could have "retreated" at that point. A lot of supports work off assumptions about your gameplay that may not true at all - for example, Sully being Chrom's equal or Lon'qu protecting Lissa from dangerous bandits doesn't make much sense either when you've immediately benched the former but used the latter throughout the whole game.

It is though. Because some of them like Path of Radiance went out of there way to ensure that things like this didn't happen. When people are dead / retreated, supports and even convos changed as a result of it. It's just really sloppy here and not at all well thought out. 

Those aren't quite the same though. Sully is Chrom's equal in combat even if you didn't raise either one on the account that this is definitely how they started out. And in the case of Lon'Qu, he's her bodyguard in those events, to make sure that she doesn't get killed. Her strength doesn't matter here, he's just there to be a buffer between her dying. A better example would be something like this: Sully's dead-- and  more specifically, her horse even if she "retreated," but Robin x Vaike still has Robin and Vaike dealing with Sully's horse. Like, why is she even still there at that point? She's not able to fight. It makes no sense. 

[ArgentSable]

Hmm, found this and read through it, but I gotta say I'm actually of the mind that they're not really that well paired. To be fair, Fates doesn't sink the Inigo ship instantly (though he does hit on Lucina knowing it's her and she knows it's him, and there's no real panick there) Truth be told there isn't enough evidence that he'd marry her in the first place.

 

First off, the game starts off by hinting at Sumia being heavily in love with Chrom (Maribelle mentions her literally staring off into the sunset waiting for him to return) and then it shoves Sumia in a bunch of missions to talk to Chrom, something no other female gets (the only other interaction with characters outside of their initial recruiting chapters is Robin helping Olivia in the Inigo recruiting mission (yes this does happen), and I forget what the other one was (outside of DLC of course, Scrambles mess this up).

Second of all, Inigo's supports require the parent to be close to Lucina. Which is quite an interesting choice. That leaves very few options, and it means it's someone close to Chrom, or Chrom himself. Considering how FE:A pushes Sumia down your gullet early game, and since it makes the best Lucina with minimal effort, I'd say she's a better shoe in for the mom. This leaves Inigo with very few parental options. Frederick, Chrom's Wary guardian. Robin, Chrom's right hand man (note I originally had no feeling for Olivia x Robin's ship at all since I actually based all my pairings on children convos, so I'm being as unbiased as humanly possible). Perhaps Gaius? (He seems close to Chrom if I recall), and I don't know who else.

The bigger picture is how Inigo perceives his father as rather cold at times, not to mention his father cares for tactics (father's tactical meeting is interrupted by Inigo not being there), and his father even compares him to Lucina (be this innocently or out of bad habbit is left to the readers imagination). This also shows that Inigo seems to hide his emotions and wants to make people smile just like his parents can, and that he feels that living up to their legacy, be it making people smile, or just helping them is far too important to him, as such he hides his pain behind his smile, the same smile Olivia seemingly showed him throughout his life. This puts Chrom into question in a way, but this only means that it's down to Fred boi or Rob since I don't know anyone who would hang out enough with Chrom to compare Inigo to Lucina, or even be angry at a tactical meeting of all things.

Now in Fates, this is a bit harder to decide. Inigo mentions the Brand, but he's shown to like Lucina a lot (or at least, he admires her a lot) and he seems to be very curious of the Brand, whether he has one or not is yet to be seen, since in the DLC it is shown that their appearances had changed once Anankos arrived, not after, so we can't sink any ships here yet. After this we have Amiibo's. Inigo and Lucina's connection begins with Inigo recognizing her, and opposed to panicking outright, he asks her that if he wins, if she'll go out on a date with him

• Laslow: Hm? Why, behold a fair maiden standing near! Care to chat? How about we slip off for a lovely stroll—just you and I.
• Lucina: Inigo?!
• Laslow: Huh? Lucina?!
• Lucina: Right! Yes! It's me! But why are you in this world?
• Laslow: Why? I could ask the same of you! By the by, could you do me the favor of not calling me by...that name?
• Lucina: Ever the man of intrigue, aren't you? Oh, you haven't changed a bit. And to be asked off for a dalliance with you—how flattering. Tell you what. If you win, I'll gladly go off with you.
• Laslow: Hmm. Really, Lucina? You're not just toying with me? All right then, I'll win that stroll fair and square. I do have a few questions I'd like to put to you in private. Are you truly the Lucina I know? You're as beautiful as she...
• Lucina: I didn't quite catch that.
• Laslow: Never mind. Brace yourself, fair maiden of mystery!

The perceived panic is only when he notices it's her, but he quickly remains steadfast in his mission to date her. And dating your sister is pretty wrong, even for Fire Emblem standards. This remains something I still find curious, but once more, they could simply be vague with this. After this, we get more info from the Inigo and Chrom convo in the beginning of the Free DLC.

• Laslow: I know it isn't the same time as when I left, but it still feels so good to be back. So good in fact, it makes me want to dance one of my mother's dances! La la la...
• Chrom: You're quite an excellent dancer.
• Laslow: What the---?! Ah, hello, Chr--- Err, I mean... You're Chrom, right?
• Chrom: Indeed I am. Who are you?
• Laslow: My names's... Laslow.
• Chrom: Laslow, huh? It's not often we see such a skilled dancer around here.
• Laslow: It's a hobby, really. I wouldn't call myself a professional by any means.
• Chrom: Really? But you're so graceful.
• Laslow: Thank you very much! I get embarrassed easily, and I don't want to be remembered... by you...
• Chrom: That's... a bit strange. But I can respect it if you want me to leave. I apologize for bothering you.
• Laslow: Oh, wait! Can I ask you one thing before you go?
• Chrom: What's that?
• Laslow: If you meet a woman one day... One who dances like me, maybe... If you meet her, could you tell her that she's an inspiration to me? Please? And that I wish all the happiness in the world for her and her family?
• Chrom: I... suppose I can do that, as strange as such a request is. You actually think I'll meet such a woman?
• Laslow: I'd bet my life savings that you will.
• Chrom: That's some confidence. All right, I promise. But in return, promise me you won't give up on your dancing and that someday... you'll come back here to entertain us all.
• Laslow: I promise.

This in turn shows Laslow asking Chrom to speak to his mother, seemingly to tell her that she's an inspiration to Laslow himself, not to hit on her (if we're looking at it plainly that is). This is however pointless since it's shown that Chrom completely forgets any of this due to the happenings of the coming days with Robin, so I see this as him simply venting about his love for his mother (though he does return after Fates ends to see her alongside Soleil so I'm pretty sure he got to say it in person). This leads us to the final bits of DLC regarding Inigo, which is the Robin Amiibo, which returns to my 2 possible options for marriages regarding Olivia. Now, I don't tend to stick Robin with anyone story related (duh, he's the MU, and those barely get official pairings, and the only one to come to mind is Kris(Katarina), Corrin(heavily hinted with Azura), and maybe Mark (if Lyn doesn't marry she follows him around, pretty much). Robin in his three chats with the children has differing tones. With Owain. He says that he feels that he knows Robin, and that his aura seems familiar (one of Owain's apparent power is to scan aura's? Maybe a mage thing), and Robin dismisses it as a false positive of sorts, to which Owain continues to ponder. Severa calls him a fake by all means, asking how he'd dare to impersonate somebody she knew. Inigo however, well his seems a bit more heartfelt to me than the other two.

• Laslow: "..."
• Robin: "What's wrong? Have you lost your interest in this battle?"
• Laslow: "No, not at all. Merely taking a moment to...observe my opponent. Let us continue. Though I'm not sure I can fight my best against...you."
• Robin: "Ha! What a line! But I'm not fooled. This is just some sort of ruse."
• Laslow: "It's true! You saw right through it, as if...you've known me forever. ... (I can do this... Old friend or not... I must battle my best!)"

This one seems much deeper than the others. Inigo stares at him for a moment, and begins to talk as honest as he ever has in most of his convos to Robin of all people, who he very clearly only spoke about his philandering too in Awakening (you can look up their non parental supports if you so wish). This one however, seems much deeper. Stating that he saw through him, and how he's known him for forever, a sentiment not shared by the others. The bigger tell (at least for me) is why Inigo wholeheartedly believes that Robin's "known him forever". And that trait, or at least, the only person from the 1st Gen to know his actual reasoning for his false personality and his real ambitions are his father.

PS; This began as a "Why I dislike Chrom x Olivia" post, but ended up as me posting what I thought made sense for Olivia. So oopsie, my bad. Also one helluva word wall.

Edited January 17, 2019 by ArgentSable