I’ve gotta say, Olivia is Chrom’s best wife for the story

[IEatLasers]

No, I commented on it. I said it isn’t like he wants to kill everything he sees, but he understands and responds well to violence. His first idea when faces with something is kill them. 

When his enemies submit, he accepts it. But he doesn’t go for diplomacy until meeting Validar after the 2 year timejump. Otherwise he jus wants to go kill. Even when Emm goes to meet Gangrel for Diplomatic purposes, Chrom just wants war. His dialogue implies he is very aggravated and wants to kill him, despite diplomacy being a reasonable solution (before hindsight tells us otherwise. And killing him from the beginning still may have been worse we will never know) 

 

also i am pretty sure the paralogues arent supposed to he canon because even Emm is in one  

but even if they are; that all happens AFTER the 2 year time jump anyway  

 

Btw...you can’t just say “this or that doesn’t count.” Because of you can just choose to ignore any arguments on the opposing side, it just means you don’t have an argument. 

 

 

[Shadow Mir]

53 minutes ago, IEatLasers said:

No, I commented on it. I said it isn’t like he wants to kill everything he sees, but he understands and responds well to violence. His first idea when faces with something is kill them. 

When his enemies submit, he accepts it. But he doesn’t go for diplomacy until meeting Validar after the 2 year timejump. Otherwise he jus wants to go kill. Even when Emm goes to meet Gangrel for Diplomatic purposes, Chrom just wants war. His dialogue implies he is very aggravated and wants to kill him, despite diplomacy being a reasonable solution (before hindsight tells us otherwise. And killing him from the beginning still may have been worse we will never know) 

 

also i am pretty sure the paralogues arent supposed to he canon because even Emm is in one  

but even if they are; that all happens AFTER the 2 year time jump anyway  

 

Btw...you can’t just say “this or that doesn’t count.” Because of you can just choose to ignore any arguments on the opposing side, it just means you don’t have an argument. 

 

 

That might've been the case when he was younger. But he's matured past that by the time the game starts.

The chapter before meeting Validar had a villager killed - I'd say that's a point where the situation has gone beyond being one that could've been resolved diplomatically. And before THAT was Gangrel - yeah, I don't think either Chrom or him would've been willing to talk things out, and frankly, Chrom has legitimate reasons for wanting to kill Gangrel. The only factions other than the Plegian army that the Shepherds had come across during the beginning were the Feroxi army, who thought Chrom and the Shepherds were bandits, and the Grimleal, who were seeking to assassinate Emmeryn.

Edited October 3, 2017 by Levant Mir Celestia

[TheSilentChloey]

1 hour ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

That might've been the case when he was younger. But he's matured past that by the time the game starts.

The chapter before meeting Validar had a villager killed - I'd say that's a point where the situation has gone beyond being one that could've been resolved diplomatically. And before THAT was Gangrel - yeah, I don't think either Chrom or him would've been willing to talk things out, and frankly, Chrom has legitimate reasons for wanting to kill Gangrel. The only factions other than the Plegian army that the Shepherds had come across during the beginning were the Feroxi army, who thought Chrom and the Shepherds were bandits, and the Grimleal, who were seeking to assassinate Emmeryn.

 

And lets not forget the bandits that attacked Southtown in the beginning of the game.  It's not like Chrom could have gone up to the leader and said, "Hey stop hurting people please?" so OP's point is moot.

 

Chrom isn't a violent person.  He's firm and fair.  So @IEatLasers you're ignoring what the game says about Chrom.  He's a paragon troupe character.  If Chrom believes it's the right thing he's going to do it.  Not because he's got "bloodlust" like your head-cannon.  This is on top of you bending the evidence to prove a point that just ain't worth pursuing because you've been comprehensively proven wrong.  And Luck +4 is useless as a skill that really only exists to be thrown to the wayside like Rightful King on someone other than Chrom or HK Marth.  Lucina can get more useful skills tbh and you are clutching at straws.

[Sias]

You started this discussion in another topic already and I had written out a nice long response to the arguments you posted there, when eclipse suddenly appeared and told everyone not to go off-topic. Luckily I still do have a save of my post, so you're getting it now:

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What you’re overlooking is that the scene actually states Chrom, at some point early on as Exalt (well he didn’t take the title) was rushed to take a bride (but he knew who she’d be) 

there’s one girl who is introduced by his friends (and that is the only girl who he actually becomes smitten with before S support, and she helps him become a leader in supports, which is what a king would need/look for) 

and she is the only one he can’t be engaged to 

Like... First of all, the blurb about him being rushed to take a bride and, I qoute: "[having] always known who that woman would be" is generic and gets applied to absolutely everyone, even the maiden. Secondly, I'd actually argue that it speaks against Olivia, as the "always known" implies a long timeframe - she however is the one he knows by far the least before the potential marriage.

Also, the bit about Chrom becoming smitten with Olivia even before S support only happens when you actually do let them S support, which is hardly a feat. A similar thing happens in his dialogue with Maribelle, for example (maybe others as well), where he states that he's been in love with her since he was a child. So yeah.
Furthermore, I could say exactly the same things about him receiving help in his other supports with potential bachelorettes. Because everyone of them actually does help him in some way (besides maybe Robin)? Sully aids him in in training, Sumia takes care of his health, Maribelle eases his royal burden... And the leadership thing with Olivia only gets mentioned in their C support btw and isn't a point ever afterwards.

Also, what does the last bit have to do with anything?

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also that’s really sketchy what you posted because I got them all to that level, and had Sumia battle by Chrom dozens and dozens of times without unlocking C support, and had Olivia and Chrom together for like 10 battles but he still married Olivia. Try it for yourself  I think the number is 14, dancing counts as 2 though  Sumia can be in 100 battles but if Olivia dances 7 times, he marries her  

Uhm... Did you even read the page I linked?
This part here...

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Special Case 1: If Chrom has obtained at least 2 points with Olivia (after rounding to the nearest integer) and hasn’t obtained a C support level with any of his other marriage candidates, he will marry Olivia.

...is the only case where Olivia actually takes any kind of priority. Simply because it would otherwise be pretty much impossible to choose this marriage option on higher difficulties (where the early battles take looong and accumulate many support points). It also enables you to effectively play the game without having to keep him away from a third of the cast for half the game.

In every single ofther situation besides the special case mentioned above Olivia has the lowest priority.

Quote

and sumia being the placeholder doesn’t really mean anything; just that you see her first  

She isn't a placeholder, she's the default option for every single marriage depending scene Chrom has. If Olivia actually was the canon choice like you claim, why doesn't she have priority in these scenes?

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and the fact that they chose to make Inigo have the brand and have nobody else mention it is significant  even if you headcanon the others do, they changed Inigos dialogue to reference it  

Sure, I do concede the point that Inigo is the only one with an explicit mention, but I still question how significant this actually is? All the children do have a different approach in their dialogue with Chrom, so it's only logical that IS wouldn't just reuse the same aspect to let him recognise them?

Additionally, it's not even me headcanonig the other children to have brands, it's you headcanoning them to not have them.

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as for supports, I’m not just talking objectively, I’m meaning that Inigo and Chrom’s father son supports actually make more sense than anyone else’s  

being compared to Lucina and Inigo becoming “invincible” by acting like nothing phases him

Yet in Lucina sibling supports They refer to Chrom as invincible  (not that he is) 

point is, Inigo modified and took on Chrom’s heroic mantle after he died so the other kids didn’t freak out, yet his dad still gets mad that he isn’t like Lucina 

They never even refer to Chrom as "invincible", the only similar word they use is "unshakeable". Which is really just you grasping at straws here and getting into headcanon territory to legitimize your parings. Like, if you searched hard enough you could find a similarity like that for any of his potential children.

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why would a random guy compare Inigo to Lucina? Why would Inigo be the one they look at to be invincible after Chrom? 

Why does Inigo look so much like Chrom?

The comparison to Lucina can be explained in a fairly simple way actually. Because the support chains have to stay logical at all times, you can only mention characters that have to be already recruited at the time when the conversation takes place. Which means that the only child unit that you could compare him to is Lucina - all others could be dead at that point, not existing (due to their mother not marrying) or simply not yet known to the player because the paralogue wasn't completed.

Also sure, you can try to support your views by pointing out a certain similarity in their looks. Other people however think that a hair colour fitting to the child's official artwork is more important for determinging "canon" parents, leading us to Henry as father. And others again try to compare the children's personalities with people in the first generation, which would point us strongly at Virion. You see where I'm going here?

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Someone at IS definitely cares about Chrom and Olivia ship...lol

Certainly, if the staff at IS hadn't cared about that it wouldn't even been an option in the game. I'm just pointing out that it's by far not as canon as you'd probably like it to be. She's like, the last-second attempt the player gets at having an usable Lucina if you forgot to build any of his wife supports beforehand.

Also, isn't it rather convenient that you completely managed to ignore this part of my arguments in your answer?

Quote

We could look at the other side of the spectrum however and see what the game tells us about Chrom/Sumia: We have them appearing as a couple in the opening cinematic, getting quite a bunch of extra scenes together during the storyline, having a cutscene at the start of chapter 3 which is basically named "lovebirds" in Japanese, mirroring the whole Marth/Caeda/Catria scenario when we include Cordelia, being both the only people with strangely limited marriage pools...

 

[eclipse]

And for those of you who don't know what spawned this topic, have some context.

Since my headcanon is Chrom x Random Person, I'm going to sit this one out.

[IEatLasers]

I don’t know how to do that so I’m just gonna respond to it all at once. 

 

-He always SAYS that in s supports. But he acts shy and timid around her since B I think it was. Also the last bit has to do with; if he’s already engaged to Sumia why was he rushed to find a bride? 

 

-okay? So in a tie Olivia has the highest priority and when the tie is broken she no longe does. Yeah...that’s what I said. 

-my canon claim was clearly me being funny once I hid her in that text of actual canon Pairings. I’m saying she’s the best (easily) (but also because Sumia is marketable and was likely designed first)

-im pretty sure they called him invincible but I don’t remember all Chrom related supports  maybe it was just a dev tweet or something  

-everyone with a brand mentions it. Why don’t the other kids? Why make Inigo the ONLY one to do so? It is a very conscious decision 

 

-opening cutscenes aren’t really canon. It is full of early game characters and Lucina. Sumia is also brown haired girl and we all know a brown haired girl. More noticeable and relatable than Olivia and they needed SOME Waifu in the trailer. Doesn’t mean the story itself doesn’t gear to Sumia. 

 

did you see the post about Fates? Had some really interesting notes 

[Junkhead]

On 2/10/2017 at 6:10 AM, IEatLasers said:

Every post I see in it convinced me further! 

Which posts are you talking about?

[Sias]

1 hour ago, IEatLasers said:

I don’t know how to do that so I’m just gonna respond to it all at once.

Click on the "Quote" under my post, then on the quotation marks in your text editor to add as many further text boxes as you'd like to have.

Quote

-He always SAYS that in s supports. But he acts shy and timid around her since B I think it was. Also the last bit has to do with; if he’s already engaged to Sumia why was he rushed to find a bride? 

That was exactly my point. Because he always says that to his future wife, you can't use it in an argument specifically for Olivia.
And of course he's more distant, reserved, maybe even shy in his supports with Olivia. The whole point of that support chain is that they aren't acquainted with each other yet because she joind his group only very recently, so they're just getting to know each other. There's no need for that with Sully/Maribelle/Sumia, whom he all knows for quite a long time already.

Also, he wasn't rushed to find a wife, but (I looked up the exact wording here) to take one. Taking a bride can very well both apply to scenarios where he just marries his fiancee and to scenarios where he meets someone new, therefore fitting to every single one of his potential brides.

Quote

-okay? So in a tie Olivia has the highest priority and when the tie is broken she no longe does. Yeah...that’s what I said. 

But this isn't true?
The standard priority for most of the game is: Sumia > Sully > Maribelle > Avatar > Olivia.

Olivia takes precedence ONLY when all three of the following conditions are met at the same time:

• you're playing chapter 11
• he hasn't obtained a support with any of his other potential wives yet
• they get 2 or more support points with each other

That's a lot of requirements for her to have any kind of priority, don't you think?

And even then, this regardless doesn't change the fact that the Olivia/Chrom support growth is still slower than that of Sumia, Maribelle and Sully while being tied with female Robin.

Quote

-my canon claim was clearly me being funny once I hid her in that text of actual canon Pairings. I’m saying she’s the best (easily) (but also because Sumia is marketable and was likely designed first)

Uh, I think it's nice of you to acknowledge that she isn't Chrom's actual canon partner (he has none), but I nevertheless regret to inform you that she isn't his best partner in gameplay performance either. That title goes again to Sumia.

Unless you meant that she's easily the best in your opinion only, in which case feel free to think that way. I just don't like when people declare their favourite pairings as canon as if it were a fact. :/

Quote

-im pretty sure they called him invincible but I don’t remember all Chrom related supports  maybe it was just a dev tweet or something  

Inigo talks about striving to be invincible in his generic father supports, but never in his sibling support with Lucina, neither as goal for him nor as description for Chrom.

Quote

-everyone with a brand mentions it. Why don’t the other kids? Why make Inigo the ONLY one to do so? It is a very conscious decision

Uuuh, I don't think Emmeryn ever mention hers?

It's also a very conscious decision that Cynthia is the only of Chrom's possible children that gets called a cute nickname by him. And that Kjelle is the only one that immediately feels a connection between them. I could go on. Surely this does mean that they must be canon choices as well, right?

Quote

-opening cutscenes aren’t really canon. It is full of early game characters and Lucina. Sumia is also brown haired girl and we all know a brown haired girl. More noticeable and relatable than Olivia and they needed SOME Waifu in the trailer. Doesn’t mean the story itself doesn’t gear to Sumia. 

I do agree that the opening custcene isn't actually canon, but if Olivia really was hinted at as Chrom's canon wife as much as you claim, she surely could've been chosen for the intro anyways?
Also sorry, but I don't buy "Sumia has brown hair" as the only reason why she's in there. And the story actually does drop a few tidbits that seem to support Chrom/Sumia. As I pointed out multiple times already.

Quote

did you see the post about Fates? Had some really interesting notes 

Uh, which one exactly?

[TheSilentChloey]

9 minutes ago, Sias said:

Uh, I think it's nice of you to acknowledge that she isn't Chrom's actual canon partner (he has none), but I nevertheless regret to inform you that she isn't his best partner in gameplay performance either. That title goes again to Sumia.

I think that title would be a tie between F!Robin and Sumia if we're being honest.  Robin gives Lucina all the skills, plus the tactician class line and skills to match.  Although if you look at the game from the default perspective then Sumia is the best Non-Robin parent for Lucina. As we all ready know.

 

I would have to point out that this is likely the OP just spouting head-cannon and getting annoyed because not many people here agree with that kind of head-cannon and straw clutching.  From a story perspective Robin makes more sense as Chrom's bride than Olivia (if IS could have made the supports M!Robin's with the S-Support tacked on that would have been the best) because Robin's involved in the story more than the others, save for of course Sumia.  So really this entire thread is nothing more than the OP's head-cannon.

[Dandy Druid]

As much as I like Chrom x Olivia, I'm going to have to disagree as well. Sumia gets the most story romance with Chrom.

1)Her introduction scene shows her being nervous around Chrom

2)She gets a special CG with Chrom complimenting her abilities

3)The "love birds" scene where she protects him

4)She, Lissa, and Robin are the only girls that try to cheer up Chrom

5)She gets an extended confessional scene after you defeat Gangrel and it's also called the "Default scene" when the game was datamined.

6)She's in the title screen trailer during the "baby" reveal scene portion of it.

Olivia and Chrom also have some edge over the remaining girls (except Robin), but it doesn't compare to how much the game wants you to set him up with Sumia.

On 10/2/2017 at 6:17 PM, TheSilentChloey said:

In other words you've failed to prove your point to anyone.  There is no reading between the lines on this one.  Olivia is the last ditch attempt to have Chrom marry a decent bride to get a good Lucina.  The point being that Olivia isn't really that great and while you might get an alright Lucina, you're not getting the best Lucina you could possibly get if you had him marry Sumia or Robin.

You do get the best Inigo though, if you're not counting Robin.

23 hours ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

I strongly disagree, because I'd EASILY argue that Virion's much more fitting as Inigo's father than Chrom ever was.

I somewhat agree. I actually think based on Inigo's father supports, his most likely father would be Frederick or Lon'qu. I'm not saying Virion is not capable of being serious, but when Inigo gets called out for being too carefree, it sounds more natural coming from Frederick or Lon'qu. Although, I do think the fathers with the best chemistry for Inigo (in no particular order) are Frederick, Lon'qu, Virion, Chrom, Robin, and Libra.

The biggest thing about Virion and Inigo is their skirt chasing ways, but that's assuming that a child's personality has to be like one of their parents. I know it happens in real life a lot, but so do situations where the child is nothing like either of their parents.

[IEatLasers]

So I can’t read all this today~ I will try to remember to come back to it tomorrow but skimming I saw one person insulting me saying I’m just spouting headcanon 

 

and I’m getting kind of tired of being treated that way because I’m not~ I’m talking about actual supports and people who read it all saw another’s poster bring in reasons why Fates helps too (though I think that’s cool it’s not my main argument)

 

I will admit that it’s opinionated. Best is subjective. I don’t like Sumia as Chrom’s bride for the story (she is a decent protector but her character is betrayed by her supports with Chrom anyway, and Cynthia and Chrom’s supports are not good for Chrom. But her sibling supports work almost as well as Inigo though Inigo is canonically scared of bugs and is canonically best friends with Owain the other royal) 

so Sumia’s story I don’t like as much for Chrom. I like it for Frederick a lot because Cynthia and Frederick trying to be stoic and stern but still loving her is very “Frederick”. He isn’t as tough as he acts as we sometimes see in his supports. He’s a sweetheart. 

 

I just think Olivias story works best for her character, Chrom’s Character, Inigo’s Character, Lucina’s mom supports, and Inigo’s character. And for the feel of the story overall. And for the chapter 11-13 stories. 

Not that everyone is going to agree, lol.

 

 

thiuh I did beat the game on insane btw and Inigo with rightful king saves the day so often. Supported him to Kjelle and it was amazing  

[Sias]

10 hours ago, TheSilentChloey said:

I think that title would be a tie between F!Robin and Sumia if we're being honest.  Robin gives Lucina all the skills, plus the tactician class line and skills to match.  Although if you look at the game from the default perspective then Sumia is the best Non-Robin parent for Lucina. As we all ready know.

Hm, I normally exclude Robin from discussions about ideal parents because they're the best father/mother for everyone, haha.

I mentioned Sumia as Chrom's best choice because on the one side, female Robin may not even exist, while on the other side Chrom arguably provides more for Cynthia than he does for Morgan.

9 hours ago, Dandy Druid said:

You do get the best Inigo though, if you're not counting Robin.

Stahl!Inigo is pretty much Chrom!Inigo who trades away 1 Spd for 1 Str. And then there are the people who claim that Magical!Inigo is better than both.

6 hours ago, IEatLasers said:

But her sibling supports work almost as well as Inigo though Inigo is canonically scared of bugs and is canonically best friends with Owain the other royal) 

[...]

thiuh I did beat the game on insane btw and Inigo with rightful king saves the day so often. Supported him to Kjelle and it was amazing  

I'm legit interested, where does it get mentioned that Inigo is Owain's best friend? I would've probably leaned towards Cynthia (for the whole Justice Cabal stuff) or maybe Lucina (because of growing up together).

And eh, Rightful King just isn't that useful as a skill in general. Ingame the additional 10% are too unreliable to really count on them (and the skill doesn't even do anything unless Inigo gets a proc in the first place), while postgame he usually runs Limit Breaker/Aggressor/Galeforce/Luna/-faire and therefore has no place for it.

[shadowofchaos]

On 10/02/2017 at 9:55 AM, Nym said:

The thing I found funny about Chrom and Olivia is this video from Shadow:

You gotta admit it's pretty accurate

I was honestly about to shitpost and link that here.

The thing is... Fire Emblem has never been good at exemplifying relationships of their characters outside of main characters.

Simply due to the permadeath culture... Even Casual Mode still holds to the tradition of cutting out characters outside of the "main character" definition. This is due to attempting to make things still make sense if characters were to have retreated, died, or NEVER recruited at all (like Callum/Kellam or Sariya/Tharja).

 

Fire Emblem Awakening S supports are worse with that due to the C-A having to be able to work with the cases of characters being able to S someone at the same time with those occurring.

Because of that... The supports naturally leave it up to the imagination of the player to develop those character's relationships.

Olivia's support with Chrom is objectively bad just from a comparison (I'm not attacking the ship itself) to his other options due to the following things:

1. The development time for a normal C-S chain is never possible without hacking. The normal S support is never viewable until after you best the game in the support log. The scene you see post Chapter is different than the unmissable S support.

2. Chrom does not have a scene before the chapter ends on the level of the other automarriage candidates.

3. Just from Sumia's modeled interaction... It's kind of apparent Olivia's interaction was rushed.

4. Liz/Lissa even lampshades it.

It heavily relies on the player imagining content to justify the marriage happening via a black screen of "They got married. Time skip time."

It is akin to relying on fan fiction/fan headcanon to make it believable.

Fire Emblem, being a series that lacks the volume of character interaction... Compared to say the absolute hundreds of skits in any one play through of a "Tales of" game... Was already hindered.

Chrom x Olivia is objectively a worse telling by the game itself by being further nerfed in believable development.

Granted 2 years from no relationship to marriage is believable. My fiance and I were practically similar in that situation. But relying on the player to build the relationship in their head for the characters alone is not better for the story.

I saw the point about Azure/Inigo having an explicitly stated brand. However while that is definitely points for your argument... It relies on a faulty foundation: them justifying the marriage that created the child in the first place.

 

Chrom x Olivia with baby Lucina is literally a modified copy paste script of the justification script for the Generic Village Girl. No matter how much material you can justify the pair with... That one thing really says bad things about the pairing "being better for the story".

 

Another note:

Azure/Inigo has a distinct speech style in Japanese. The consistency of those speech quirks in the sibling support with Lucina can be called into question.

Edited October 4, 2017 by shadowofchaos

[Augestein]

From a gameplay perspective, Chrom / Olivia is probably the worst of Chrom's pairings-- yes, it's even worse than Maiden. Because Maiden doesn't give - strength. Without grinding, at best, you could probably squeeze out a "Vantage" from Olivia for Lucina. Inigo is happy with Rightful King if only because he can eventually get Luna or use it for Sol procs. Which isn't bad but it's not great. At least Maribelle allows for interesting things like combining Demoiselle and Charm for some interesting strategies. Olivia just makes you a mediocre melee fighter that doesn't get much else outside of being able to *eventually* get Galeforce. Of which, all of Chrom's parents do the same outside of Sully and Maiden. And Lucina can make a good hard backliner because she has Dual Strike+ and access to Bowfaire anyways. So who cares? 

Storywise, the pairing is pretty stupid. he meets her and then he feels compelled to get married to her. The time skip might give a chance, but we see absolutely no chemistry with them beforehand. I don't see how anyone can call it a good pairing. Especially on the account that *all* of them have the time skip argument with them. And I have a harder time shipping that over Maribelle, Sully, or even Sumia. I find Maribelle the best IMO from a story perspective. She's already Lissa's best friend and is pretty much family already. She doesn't even have to get the approval of the siblings for the marriage. They already know and like her. Maiden isn't half bad either. Because I like that everyone in the army didn't get married to their bunk mates. 

 

50 minutes ago, shadowofchaos said:

Azure/Inigo has a distinct speech style in Japanese. The consistency of those speech quirks in the sibling support with Lucina can be called into question.

In general I find this is a problem for a lot of pairings in Awakening. I have a hard time buying that someone like Fred for instance would put up with Tharja's antics on his child. Meanwhile, I have an easier time accepting that Henry x Sumia could produce that lunatic child that is Cynthia. Although, to be fair, I find the conversation pretty lousy for Lucina's sibling  in general. The sibling claims that Lucina should use "fire magic" despite the fact that none of the mothers are known for their magical fighting. Sure, some of them are capable of using magic, but their base classes certainly aren't fighting casters. 

Edited October 4, 2017 by Augestein

[IEatLasers]

Ngh there’s so much stuff now. 

 

 

Sais I thought Harvest Scramble said that? It has Owain talking to Inigo about some deep stuff, cheering him up, and then they promise they’ll be there for each other when it matters or something like that. Then they go off to Fatesland together. 

Oah also pretty much anything I or anyone else says that isn’t objective fact has an implied (in my opinion) because I’m the one saying it. People don’t really have to say in my opinion for each thing...

mmh..the fates post I mention is on that talks about Laslo supports. In Xander’s support Xander talks about “how could I see with a mark on my eye?” And laslow said “I never figured that out myself” 

then Keaton shows him a bug collection and he’s like “not again!” But why again? It also shows that Inigo is canonically afraid of bugs. 

 

Yeah it sucks rhat Olivia got screwed outta a soecial cutscene and all that, but that doesn’t make her character and her role a worse choice for the story itself, it’s just s but less gratifying in that way 

[Shadow Mir]

3 minutes ago, IEatLasers said:

then Keaton shows him a bug collection and he’s like “not again!” But why again? It also shows that Inigo is canonically afraid of bugs. 

They call that a call-back - basically, it references that Laslow/Inigo was a potential sibling for Lucina, and thus the possibility of him getting scared by a bug.

[Augestein]

1 hour ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

They call that a call-back - basically, it references that Laslow/Inigo was a potential sibling for Lucina, and thus the possibility of him getting scared by a bug.

It's not really a call-back though if it's the same character.  When Inigo doesn't complain about his mark disappearing hypothetically, it's because he's not as vain as Severa and Owain. He, ironically enough, cares less about his base appearance than anyone else. Severa complains about her hair-- implying that it's any color besides the given red, and Owain complains about his loss of a mark-- and that's probably more in reference to Lissa for how excited she was that he had one. Inigo complains about neither despite the fact that he could.  One big thing that supports Chrom!Inigo is the parent support for instance. It really doesn't make much sense for the parent to compare to Lucina when there's no real relation. Chrom on the other hand complaining that his son can't behave more like his daughter? That's a little more sensible. These things are core parts of their character. We shouldn't dismiss that. The only thing that we can actually dismiss about the children characters for canon is that the ones in Fates clearly don't have a pairing with Robin-- as they don't have a kid already when crossing to the other world. 

The game is pretty good about respecting the various pairings. It's why even though you have Male!Robin appearing in Fates, they make it a clear point that it's Smash Robin and not Awakening Robin. 

We all ship our favorite pairings after all to some extent. For instance, I like Virion!Inigo, because I like to think that skirt chasing is like some sort of curse that gets passed down the line. It becomes more hilarious when you consider that Soleil has the same curse, despite being a woman. It's why to a certain extent, I prefer the Japanese version of that support with Corrin. 

[Sias]

5 hours ago, IEatLasers said:

Sais I thought Harvest Scramble said that? It has Owain talking to Inigo about some deep stuff, cheering him up, and then they promise they’ll be there for each other when it matters or something like that. Then they go off to Fatesland together. 

mmh..the fates post I mention is on that talks about Laslo supports. In Xander’s support Xander talks about “how could I see with a mark on my eye?” And laslow said “I never figured that out myself”

I totally agree that they probably are very close friends, I just believe that the game never really specifies who exactly is his best friend among the multiple close friends he has. They might be besties after Fates though, simply because all the others weren't really around anymore.

Sure, it's another reference to the mark, but... It never really specifies whether Inigo is just wondering about it because Lucina had one or because he himself was in possession of the brand.

4 hours ago, Augestein said:

One big thing that supports Chrom!Inigo is the parent support for instance. It really doesn't make much sense for the parent to compare to Lucina when there's no real relation. Chrom on the other hand complaining that his son can't behave more like his daughter? That's a little more sensible. These things are core parts of their character. We shouldn't dismiss that. The only thing that we can actually dismiss about the children characters for canon is that the ones in Fates clearly don't have a pairing with Robin-- as they don't have a kid already when crossing to the other world.

I did explain this one already!

Quote

The comparison to Lucina can be explained in a fairly simple way actually. Because the support chains have to stay logical at all times, you can only mention characters that have to be already recruited at the time when the conversation takes place. Which means that the only child unit that you could compare him to is Lucina - all others could be dead at that point, not existing (due to their mother not marrying) or simply not yet known to the player because the paralogue wasn't completed.

 

[IEatLasers]

Soliel Character honestly makes me uncomfortable when she married Corrin. 

Especially since the game does have a lesbian option so it’s not like they can’t do it  

Anyway~ 

I don’t feel like Inigo liking seducing women is the same as Virion. 

Virion specifically never claims to love women. He just proposes. Inigo is more of the fairy tale prince in that he thinks he falls in love with each pretty girl he saves. 

But Virion it’s part of him. 

Inigo it’s some part of his defense mechanism. He does genuinely like doing it, but he also does it to distract himself (or so, I felt like it’s inplied in his parent support when he says “well I do actually like the ladies though...” as a last minute thing. It made me think of Rick and Morty and other mean type characters, who have to make some joke to ruin a sweet moment to save their mean reputation.) 

[saisymbolic]

1 hour ago, IEatLasers said:

Soliel Character honestly makes me uncomfortable when she married Corrin. 

Especially since the game does have a lesbian option so it’s not like they can’t do it  

Anyway~ 

I don’t feel like Inigo liking seducing women is the same as Virion. 

Virion specifically never claims to love women. He just proposes. Inigo is more of the fairy tale prince in that he thinks he falls in love with each pretty girl he saves. 

But Virion it’s part of him. 

Inigo it’s some part of his defense mechanism. He does genuinely like doing it, but he also does it to distract himself (or so, I felt like it’s inplied in his parent support when he says “well I do actually like the ladies though...” as a last minute thing. It made me think of Rick and Morty and other mean type characters, who have to make some joke to ruin a sweet moment to save their mean reputation.) 

It's irrelevant if they do or don't seduce for the same reasons. A person can have similar tendencies to their parents but the reason behind these actions can be completely different.

While it's stated that Olivia was the one that caused Inigo to begin flirting to get over his shyness, it isn't that hard to imagine that Virion perhaps reinforced this behavior in him when he was young—likely both directly and indirectly. Considering Virion is a rather charismatic individual that can approach just about anyone with ease, it also isn't difficult to imagine that a young Inigo saw how easily his father interacted with others and associated his flirtatious ways with his confidence. In comes a dark future where his entire world is gone, older Inigo would fall back on these ways as a crutch to cope with his situation.

See, it's incredibly easy to spin a character's actions to fit a particular narrative. Not trying to say that you do/are but it is rather easy.

Edited October 5, 2017 by saisymbolic

[shadowofchaos]

2 hours ago, Sias said:

I totally agree that they probably are very close friends, I just believe that the game never really specifies who exactly is his best friend among the multiple close friends he has. They might be besties after Fates though, simply because all the others weren't really around anymore.

Sure, it's another reference to the mark, but... It never really specifies whether Inigo is just wondering about it because Lucina had one or because he himself was in possession of the brand.

I did explain this one already!

 

Logically speaking... Gameplay inherently inhibits the writing.

Simply because NO children can be compared to other children except for Lucina outside of the support context they are in.

Every recruitment the children have can only be compared to Lucina simply because she is the only required character. If in a support with a character, Azure/Inigo and the character they talk with can never reference any other children other than Lucina.

Due to this, there is an inherent bias for character interactions for the children to rely on a fixed character. Which means any seemingly good chemistry for relationships with Lucina... Sibling or otherwise... Is the fault of the system. And not showing any bias or quality for a particular pair.

Limitations and challenges similar to these are present in the writing for Chrom x Olivia more so than any other pairing in the game since their relationship will never be as developed as any of the others. Regardless of the child himself having more material and being better written than his parents' union.

Another thing to note:

Lucina's bug support with their sibling in Japanese is very obviously using Cynthia's speech style as a base. They modified a template from that.

You can tell Azure/Inigo, Djelle/Kjelle, and Brady's Japanese is ridiculously OFF. And Mark/Morgan's support was changed in English to justify him being scared of the bug when he loves them in Noire's support with him.

Edited October 5, 2017 by shadowofchaos

[Sias]

27 minutes ago, shadowofchaos said:

Another thing to note:

Lucina's bug support with their sibling in Japanese is very obviously using Cynthia's speech style as a base. They modified a template from that.

You can tell Azure/Inigo, Djelle/Kjelle, and Brady's Japanese is ridiculously OFF. And Mark/Morgan's support was changed in English to justify him being scared of the bug when he loves them in Noire's support with him.

That's actually very interesting and kind of makes me a little sad that I can't read Japanese. I wonder how many little things like this I may have missed?

Nice to see that you're agreeing with me on the gameplay front though, haha.

[IEatLasers]

25 minutes ago, saisymbolic said:

It's irrelevant if they do or don't seduce for the same reasons. A person can have similar tendencies to their parents but the reason behind these actions can be completely different.

While it's stated that Olivia was the one that caused Inigo to begin flirting to get over his shyness, it isn't that hard to imagine that Virion perhaps reinforced this behavior in him when he was young—likely both directly and indirectly. Considering Virion is a rather charismatic individual that can approach just about anyone with ease, it also isn't difficult to imagine that a young Inigo saw how easily his father interacted with others and associated his flirtatious ways with his confidence. In comes a dark future where his entire world is gone, older Inigo would fall back on these ways as a crutch to cope with his situation.

See, it's incredibly easy to spin a character's actions to fit a particular narrative. Not trying to say that you do/are but it is rather easy.

..if my point was irrelevant than so was what I was arguing. A person can also be completely different from their parents and often times they are   

 

Sure it’s easy enough~ But really almost any parent could because it’s some cute silly thing, or they think Olivia knows best, or they just don’t see it leading to any harm~ (and Inigo is a mommy’s boy) 

 But yeah there are many things that I have for headcanons too but if I bring them up it’s all anyone will talk about! 

 

Inigos Japanese seems fine just informal. Bug support isn’t out of character and he is canonically scared of bugs. 

[shadowofchaos]

24 minutes ago, IEatLasers said:

Inigos Japanese seems fine just informal. Bug support isn’t out of character and he is canonically scared of bugs. 

That is an awfully simply dismissive statement. Azure is informal all of the time.

 

【アズール】
そう！ ものすごく大きくて、
わさわさしてる虫が出てきたんだ…！
あの見た目ったら最悪だよ…！

【ルキナ】
じゃあ、さっきの悲鳴はそれですか？
私はてっきり敵の奇襲かと…
全くもう…
人騒がせな真似はやめてくださ…

【アズール】
うわーーーっ！ 飛んだーーー！！
こ、こっちに来るなよー！！

【ルキナ】
えぇっ！？
…きゃーーーーっ！！

【アズール】
ね？ あれは叫ぶでしょ？
ルキナ、あれ倒してよ…！

【ルキナ】
む、無理ですよあんな大きい虫…！

【アズール】
えー！？ さっきは
『私が来たからにはもう平気です』って
言ってたのに！？
虫一匹倒せないで
未来が救えるの！？

Even in times if stress... He does not speak like Cynthia the way he does here.

The fact that I'm even questioning it means that the quality if the writing isn't inherently better for the story.

Edited October 5, 2017 by shadowofchaos

[TheSilentChloey]

10 hours ago, Augestein said:

In general I find this is a problem for a lot of pairings in Awakening. I have a hard time buying that someone like Fred for instance would put up with Tharja's antics on his child. Meanwhile, I have an easier time accepting that Henry x Sumia could produce that lunatic child that is Cynthia. Although, to be fair, I find the conversation pretty lousy for Lucina's sibling  in general. The sibling claims that Lucina should use "fire magic" despite the fact that none of the mothers are known for their magical fighting. Sure, some of them are capable of using magic, but their base classes certainly aren't fighting casters. 

Robin is a what I would consider the strongest case for a powerful mage unit but that would ultimately depend on what classes and skills you have her have...so that part only in theory makes sense when it's Morgan saying it (also fun fact Morgan comes with an Elfire tome to start with).  It could also be a case of them saying to kill the roach with fire...