Las Vegas Shooting

[Captain Karnage]

So just last night we here in the United States have just experienced one of the deadliest shootings in our histoy. At least 50 are confirmed dead and we have 200 injured.

The Islamic state has claimed responsibility for the attack, though no evidence has been found for the shooters motivation.

I recommend that if you can go find your closest Red Cross and donate blood if you can.

http://www.fox5vegas.com/story/36497025/police-at-least-50-dead-400-injured-in-shooting-on-las-vegas-strip

[largebus]

Don't forget to send your thoughts and prayers, they will certainly prevent this from happening again.

[Water Mage]

First of all, let's ignore the Islamic state taking responsibility for attack. They would take responsibility for the common cold if possible. 

But anyway, did any new info came out about the shooter? All we really about him is that he is called Stephen Paddock and the he is a 64 year old white. It's kinda weird actually. The fact he is a white male is first thing all articles about the incident mention about the shooter. He's dead, is there really a need for his profile? And his age is also rather unusual for this sort incident.

4 minutes ago, largebus said:

Don't forget to send your thoughts and prayers, they will certainly prevent this from happening again.

Is this kind of cynicism necessary? Sometimes people can't contribute in any way, so thoughts and prayers are genuinely the only thing the can send. It really isn't a bad thing.

[largebus]

1 minute ago, Water Mage said:

Is this kind of cynicism necessary? Sometimes people can't contribute in any way, so thoughts and prayers are genuinely the only thing the can send. It really isn't a bad thing.

We all know what happens: thoughts and prayers blah blah maybe we should do something about this blah blah wait don't take muh freedoms blah blah nothing gets done.

Hollywood could film the reaction to this whole thing and release it as Groundhog Day 2.

Cynicism aside, a friend of mine is staying at the Luxor literally metres away (he's okay)

[blah the Prussian]

7 hours ago, largebus said:

Don't forget to send your thoughts and prayers, they will certainly prevent this from happening again.

This line of reasoning obviously makes no sense. Like, okay, I'm not sending my thoughts and prayers, what do you want me to do? Frankly, thinking is the best thing we can be doing right now: thinking "okay, but how do we actually stop this?" Because right now I don't know the answer, not in the US at least.

[Tryhard]

16 minutes ago, Water Mage said:

Is this kind of cynicism necessary? Sometimes people can't contribute in any way, so thoughts and prayers are genuinely the only thing the can send. It really isn't a bad thing.

I'm cynical about America changing anything. If Sandy Hook isn't an impetus for change, I don't think anything will be.

But regular people can't do much. Obama tried to propose gun legislation after Sandy Hook, but was stonewalled.

[Res]

22 minutes ago, Water Mage said:

But anyway, did any new info came out about the shooter? All we really about him is that he is called Stephen Paddock and the he is a 64 year old white. It's kinda weird actually. The fact he is a white male is first thing all articles about the incident mention about the shooter. He's dead, is there really a need for his profile? And his age is also rather unusual for this sort incident.

Is this kind of cynicism necessary? Sometimes people can't contribute in any way, so thoughts and prayers are genuinely the only thing the can send. It really isn't a bad thing.

Yes, we do need that information, otherwise everyone jumps to Islamic terrorist/refugee/anyone but a white U.S. citizen.

We could discuss, write and vote on enacting legislature, but that's not going to happen...

The death toll keeps rising. :( On an immediate practical note, locals could donate blood. There will likely be some fundraisers for the victims, since funeral costs/medical care is expensive and there'll no doubt be people who can't afford it (another action we can take is to vote to extend medical benefits).

Quote

Like ancient villagers, Americans accept periodic plagues as a visitation from the gods, about which nothing can or should be done. The only permitted response is “thoughts and prayers”—certainly never rational action to reduce casualties in future. Even to open the discussion as to whether something might not be done violates the taboos of decency: How dare you politicize this completely unpredictable and uncontrollable event! It is as if gun violence were inscrutable to the mind of man, utterly beyond human control.

The fact that such things do not happen anywhere else with anything approaching the same frequency—that too is the work of some ineffable mystery. Who can say why such things happen so seldom in Canada and Australia and Britain and Germany and France, and so often in the United States? Who would be rude enough even to wonder?

Prayer refreshes the soul and clears the mind. It opens the way to repentance and improvement. But prayer alone does not lift from human beings the duty to do what they have the power to do. And that’s not my personal opinion. It’s also the opinion, emphatically declared, of the God to whom believers in the Bible address their prayers. In the stately words of the King James translation, Isaiah 1:15:

"And when ye spread forth your hands, I will hide mine eyes from you: yea, when ye make many prayers, I will not hear: your hands are full of blood."

Edited October 2, 2017 by Res

[Tryhard]

Regardless, it's a horrifying event. ISIS took credit for it but I find it hard to believe that a 60 something year old white guy would turn to converting to a Jihadi, ISIS would take credit for anything. Others want to portray him immediately as a left/right wing nut of some description, but there is no motive discovered yet.

[Shoblongoo]

Thoughts and prayers are appreciated when that's all one is in a position to offer. There is something morally infuriating about the empty condolences from those in positions of power who didn't do anything after Sandy Hook, didn't do anything after Colombine or Boulder or Aroura, didn't do anything after Orlando, and aren't going to do anything now. I'll reserve judgment on whether or not it's an ISIS attack until we get more info, but it shouldn't matter. The policy response should be the same. (Condolences to the Dead is not an acceptable public policy on Gun Violence)

Edited October 2, 2017 by Shoblongoo

[Zapp Branniglenn]

I remember being IN Vegas last year when news broke of the nightclub shooting in Orlando. Deadliest mass shooting at that time. I'll confess I was feeling a bit cynical about my country and guessed a new shooting would surpass it within a year's time. I was wrong, off by only three and a half months

The only bet I'm making is that Trump will make a tweet suggesting Americans should arm up. It's the only way to stay safe.

[Lushen]

Reiterating for those in the area that are not following this closely, law enforcement are asking for blood.  There are hundreds injured and blood is in short supply.  Please consider donating if you are healthy.

And don't bring politics into a mass shooting by guessing what members of political groups will do in response.  That's not important right now.

Edited October 2, 2017 by Lushen

[Res]

1 minute ago, Shoblongoo said:

Thoughts and prayers are appreciated when that's all one is in a position to offer. There is something morally infuriating about the empty condolences from those in positions of power who didn't do anything after Sandy Hook, didn't do anything after Colombine or Boulder or Aroura, didn't do anything after Orlando, and aren't going to do anything now. 

This is true. Still, we can open up discussion with family and friends. I'm wondering how to bring this up with the kids (especially as, now my eldest's in school, she'll be having active shooter drills soon). 

"Updated numbers after last night's shooting in Las Vegas: -11,652 gun deaths -23,512 gun injuries -273 mass shootings"

and that's just for 2017 in the U.S.; still three months to go.

[Moblin Major General]

2 minutes ago, Res said:

Updated numbers after last night's shooting in Las Vegas: -11,652 gun deaths -23,512 gun injuries -273 mass shootings"

and that's just for 2017 in the U.S.; still three months to go.

How many of those 11,000 deaths and 23,000 injuries were either self-inflicted, accidental, or both? The 273 needs to stop, but how many of those involved illegally bought and owned guns?

Anyway, one thing I'm sure of is that Paddock either bought those guns illegally, or he went through the bureaucratic process to get fully automatic firearms, meaning gun control wasn't a question in this case, because it was either circumvented, or didn't even matter considering he was licensed to own them.

[Raven]

Another mass shooting in the USA? Colour me fucking surprised.

[DisobeyedCargo]

Regardless of wether you Believe that prayer will help or not or action will speak louder, I think we can all agree that this is a horrible tragedy.

 

i know it's not much, but if there is anyone on here who has a family member who was a victim of the shooting, I am sorry and whoever it was, I hope they recover soon.

[Shoblongoo]

FYI: gun control doesn't work unless it's done at the federal level--it's very easy to move guns across state lines from uncontrolled states to controlled ones. Illinois has some of the strictest gun laws in the country--doesn't matter--all the guns come in through Indiana. New Jersey has some of the strictest gun laws in the country--doesn't matter. We have an interstate highway running down to North Carolina. All the guns come up the Northeast corridor. It works in countries like Japan and Australia because they have nationally uniform laws. Federalism was a nice idea in 1776. It has not aged gracefully.

Edited October 2, 2017 by Shoblongoo

[Lushen]

Ugh I don't see the benefit of getting political this quickly at all.

Guns could have been in the family for years.
Guns could have been imported from Mexico or Canada illegally
Guns could have came in from his private planes illegally.
Guns could have been stolen from military or police.
Guns could have been purchased legally and modified.

Who fucking knows?  Don't bring politics into a shitshow when we don't even know what happened.  I understand the need to take this into politics, but why can't we wait until the victims in hospitals are either released or pronounced dead and when we actually know where the guns came from and what could have prevented this, if anything.

[DisobeyedCargo]

7 minutes ago, Lushen said:

Ugh I don't see the benefit of getting political this quickly at all.

Guns could have been in the family for years.
Guns could have been imported from Mexico or Canada illegally
Guns could have came in from his private planes illegally.
Guns could have been stolen from military or police.
Guns could have been purchased legally and modified.

Who fucking knows?  Don't bring politics into a shitshow when we don't even know what happened.  I understand the need to take this into politics, but why can't we wait until the victims in hospitals are either released or pronounced dead and when we actually know where the guns came from and what could have prevented this, if anything.

I agree, lets worry about the vicims first and make sure they are okay 

[Shoblongoo]

15 minutes ago, DisobeyedCargo said:

I agree, lets worry about the vicims first and make sure they are okay 

Unfortunately, the immediate aftermath of a mass shooting is the only time most Americans can be even remotely bothered to engage in a discussion on gun laws. There's like a one week window after a tragedy like this where people actually care enough to talk about it. Then apathy sets in again and no one gives a shit. So if there's a conversation to be had about why we keep having mass shootings in America and why we have so many victims in need of condolences and how going forward we could maybe have fewer shootings and fewer victims. This is the time to have it.

[Raven]

2 minutes ago, Shoblongoo said:

Unfortunately, the immediate aftermath of a mass shooting is the only time most Americans can be even remotely bothered to engage in a discussion on gun laws. There's like a one week window after a tragedy like this where people actually care enough to talk about it. Then apathy sets in again and no one gives a shit. So if there's a conversation to be had about why we keep having mass shootings in America and why we have so many victims in need of condolences and how going forward we could maybe have fewer shootings and fewer victims. This is the time to have it.

May as well accept that mass shootings are a part of American culture, and will continue to be the norm. The cycle repeats but nothing changes.

[DisobeyedCargo]

3 minutes ago, Shoblongoo said:

Unfortunately, the immediate aftermath of a mass shooting is the only time most Americans can be even remotely bothered to engage in a discussion on gun laws. There's like a one week window after a tragedy like this where people actually care enough to talk about it. Then apathy sets in again and no one gives a shit. So if there's a conversation to be had about why we keep having mass shootings in America and why we have so many victims in need of condolences and how going forward we could maybe have fewer shootings and fewer victims. This is the time to have it.

Unfortunately, your right. We have maybe a week at most to discuss this before we just don't care anymore. The problem is we are not going to come to an agreement over something as big as gun control in just one week. We need to dedicate serious dicussion time to a subject like this so these horrible shootings don't continue to happen or st least happen less frequently 

[blah the Prussian]

32 minutes ago, Lushen said:

Ugh I don't see the benefit of getting political this quickly at all.

Guns could have been in the family for years.
Guns could have been imported from Mexico or Canada illegally
Guns could have came in from his private planes illegally.
Guns could have been stolen from military or police.
Guns could have been purchased legally and modified.

Who fucking knows?  Don't bring politics into a shitshow when we don't even know what happened.  I understand the need to take this into politics, but why can't we wait until the victims in hospitals are either released or pronounced dead and when we actually know where the guns came from and what could have prevented this, if anything.

If we don't bring politics into this there's only so many ways we can repeat "This sucks." This is serious discussion, so actual discussion is appropriate. 

[Magical CC]

1 hour ago, Tryhard said:

Regardless, it's a horrifying event. ISIS took credit for it but I find it hard to believe that a 60 something year old white guy would turn to converting to a Jihadi, ISIS would take credit for anything. Others want to portray him immediately as a left/right wing nut of some description, but there is no motive discovered yet.

Americans love drama. So now they have some drama to be dramatic about, a break from usual Trump stuff.

A lot of people said why didnt the shooter just commit suicide instead of having to take so many lives. Many others complained the shooter got it off so easily and he should suffer more for what he did. Well boys, if I was God, I would rather block your prayers from my email box.

 

Edited October 2, 2017 by Magical CC

[Lushen]

10 minutes ago, blah the Prussian said:

If we don't bring politics into this there's only so many ways we can repeat "This sucks." This is serious discussion, so actual discussion is appropriate. 

I said that was fine.  But there is no point in speculating that gun control would have done anything.  There are many different ways he could have gotten several fully automatic guns.  It is not known if these guns were obtained as automatics or if they were modified to be fully-automatic.  No one knows.  So getting political and saying that a lack of gun control is the cause of this attack when that is not even known at this time is ridiculous.  Hell, it could come out that he got all his guns from Mexico and Trump's border wall would have stopped this.  Who knows???  Same with the idea that ISIS is claiming responsibility.  They do that all the time, who knows if this is true?  There's no point in talking about what should be done in response to speculation.

The only political thing I will say is thank God we don't have a president who has yet to blame the shooter, but blamed the NRA twice.  Thank god we don't have a president that asked people to not get political and the immediately got political.  And FYI Clinton, silencers don't make guns silent...

 

Edited October 2, 2017 by Lushen

[Tryhard]

this shit has been politicised for years and should be

there's a reason that resolution was relatively quick in the UK when the Dunblane Massacre happened in 1996 and 16 children and a teacher were killed.

or when the same happened in École Polytechnique in Canada. The same happened for Australia because of the Port Arthur massacre. In all of these cases stricter gun laws were introduced directly after as a result of these.

I don't really know if those guns the perpetrator had were legal or not but this is always the tactic to kick it further down the line so it never gets addressed. Meanwhile, in other countries they actually bothered to have a swift resolution through the legal system.